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Judge: No Evidence Trump Administration Complying With Order; China Posts Unexpectedly Strong Economic Growth Ahead Of Tariffs; CDC: U.S. Autism Rate Continues To Rise. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired April 16, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Is that becoming clear to you?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: Oh yes, Kate. That's going to be exactly the point of conflict here.

So I think yesterday there was good news and bad news for Abrego Garcia's legal team in that court hearing.

The good news is the judge is completely on their side. The judge is taking a very broad view of what the government has to do to "facilitate" Abrego Garcia's return. And clearly, the judge is determined to get answers to all the key questions. The judge has ordered a very aggressive discovery schedule for the next couple of weeks to try to get those answers.

But the bad news for Abrego Garcia's team is the administration is completely dug in on the other side of it. The administration is taking a very narrow view of what it believes it's required to do to "facilitate" his return, and the government seems intent on not giving a lot of those specific answers that the judge has said she is going to need. So watch for that to play out over the next couple of weeks.

BOLDUAN: What happens in this two-week window? They call it discovery and fact-finding but make it English for us. What do you expect to learn from this?

HONIG: Yeah. So I think the first thing the judge is going to want to do is make sure that the government keeps track of Abrego Garcia, and that's why she said she's going to require daily updates from them. I think she's going to want to know where is he? Is he still at that same prison? Has he been moved? She's going to compel the government to try to keep tabs on Mr. Abrego Garcia.

I think the other thing that she's going to do look for -- and this could take the form of depositions under oath. It could be testimony in court. It could be written submissions. But she is going to be looking for at what point exactly did the administration realize they had made an error by deporting Abrego Garcia to El Salvador, the one country that he was not allowed to be deported to. Who knew this and when, and what were the reactions? Did somebody say,

"Hey, we need to get him back." Did somebody say, "Ah, who cares -- leave him there?" I think that's what the judge is trying to determine.

BOLDUAN: And kind of on -- related to that moment, if you will, a Justice Department attorney who had been working on this case was just fired, accused of -- according to a person familiar with it, accused of sabotaging the case. But what is publicly known that this attorney did was just state candidly to the judge in a hearing that "Our only arguments are jurisdictional." Also saying, "He should not have been sent to El Salvador."

If that is the offense here can any Justice Department attorney successfully argue this case at this point?

HONIG: Yeah, these attorneys are in an incredibly difficult position. As far as I've seen from the record that attorney who has now been fired did nothing wrong. He did what you are required to do as a Justice Department attorney.

He went into court. He told the truth. You have a duty of candor to any judge. He said he acknowledged that the administration had made a "clerical or administrative error" in sending Abrego Garcia to El Salvador in the first place. By the way, that wasn't him sort of going out on his own. The administration had acknowledged that. Now he has been fired.

So I think the only -- I think what DOJ is looking for here is an attorney who is willing to toe the party line and, to an extent, that's the job of the attorney. But again, as a DOJ attorney you have to answer a judge openly and candidly, and if you don't do that, you're really violating your oath to the bar.

BOLDUAN: In addition to this and talking about this President Trump has started to float the idea of saying he is interested in even the possibility of deporting U.S. citizens to El Salvador to serve U.S. criminal sentences. I mean, the way he talks about it is homegrown violent criminals.

Let me play what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If it's a homegrown criminal I have no problem. Now, we're studying the laws right now -- Pam is studying. If we can do that, that's good. And I'm talking about violent people. I'm talking about really bad people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: He says he's instructed the attorney general to study this. Tom Homan, the border czar, was asked about this. He says that they're going to study -- they're going to study it as well.

Is there something to study? HONIG: No, there is not, Kate. If he is talking about taking American citizens who have been convicted of crimes and imprisoning them overseas -- and it does sound like that's what he means -- I will tell you right now what they or anyone will find. That is flatly, entirely, completely, and flagrantly unconstitutional. And if he were to try that I promise you he will lose 9-0 in the Supreme Court. Justices Thomas and Alito and Gorsuch will reject that.

So let's hope this is just talk. Let's hope this is just rhetoric. Let's hope the attorney general comes back with the correct answer, which is absolutely not.

BOLDUAN: You're a very helpful man this morning, Elie Honig. A hopeful Elie Honig we all deserve more of.

HONIG: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: It's good to see you, buddy. Thank you.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Mark Elie down as undecided there --

BOLDUAN: Yeah.

BERMAN: -- on the constitutionality --

BOLDUAN: He's always cuspy (PH).

[07:35:00]

BERMAN: -- of what -- so he is right on the edge there a little bit. Like, not at all. Flagrantly, completely, 9,000 percent unconstitutional. Duty of candor -- that's what we call it, Elie Honig. Thank you very much. Nice to see you this morning.

All right. New this morning, China posting unexpectedly strong economic growth in the first three quarters (sic) of the year. And GDP for the world's second-largest economy hit 5.4 percent in the first quarter. Now, this was before the president's huge tariffs took effect. Maybe because the president's huge tariffs were about to take effect.

Let's get right to CNN's Rahel Solomon, anchor of "EARLY START" and business reporter extraordinaire to find out what's going on here with China and what I means. Good morning to you.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR: Yeah, a lot of pressure there, John. Good morning.

Yes, as you sort of alluded to there it was both before the tariffs and perhaps because of those tariffs. Both things really playing into this.

So John, this is really about timing, timing, timing. So on the one hand -- this was Q1: January, February, March -- obviously before the April 2 tariffs or the 'Liberation Day' tariffs as President Trump has called them. And so because of that you saw, especially in the month of March, businesses really frontload exports, so that really helped in terms of China GDP. But we also saw some domestic programs and fiscal programs to boost consumer spending.

So all of those reasons sort of contributing to the stronger than expected number that we saw -- 5.4 percent, as you pointed out, as compared to the same period a year ago.

But that was then and this is now. And because of that -- because of this sort of different environment that we are in Wall Street banks -- bank after bank slashing their forecast for the rest of China GDP.

So Goldman Sachs putting out a note saying that, "We expect China's sequential GDP growth to drop significantly in Q2..." -- and I think we have this for you. We can pull it up. "...and remain low in H2..." -- or the back half of the year -- "...on the back of severe external shocks from increased U.S. tariffs despite the ongoing easing measures."

They cut their forecast of four percent for China. UBS, for its part, cut its growth forecast to 3.4 percent for 2025. And just to put that in context, John, China was actually hoping for or targeting for a growth forecast of around five percent. So we are well off those levels, at least according to these forecasts.

But again, this is all about timing. That was then -- the first quarter of the year -- and we are now at obviously a very different space politically, geopolitically, and economically between the U.S. and China.

BERMAN: "That was Then, This is Now" -- one of my favorite S.E. Hinton books.

We have retail sales coming out shortly and this is important. Every economic data point we have coming out in this post-tariff world is so crucial. What are the expectations?

SOLOMON: Yeah. So this is another one where -- I hate to sound like a broken record here John, but this is another one where timing is really important. And because this is the period -- this is March that we're talking about -- the period before tariffs. This is before tariffs but also likely because of tariffs that we're seeing a stronger than expected report. That is the expectation. The report drops in a little less than an hour.

So a few things to watch. This is according to BofA's research -- Bank of America. So we might see some tariff front loading. According to their analysis we've already seen strong sales in categories like auto sales, clothing; but on other categories like furniture and department store sales not so much. So watch that space really closely.

Also timing. We might see a tax season boost according to that same research. Through April 8 -- through last week year-to-date, refunds are actually up more than five percent compared to a year earlier. So that might be a boost.

On the flip side, it has obviously been a very rocky period for stocks. Do we see any of the impact from a wealth erosion -- a pull back from consumer spending? According to their analysis -- they looked at the debit cards and the credit cards of millions of their users -- they're not seeing that impact just yet.

But those are three things to watch when this report comes out. But John, just to sort of state the obvious, consumer spending, certainly here in the U.S., a huge driver of economic growth. More than two- thirds of consumers -- spending retail sales about a third of GDP.

So what happens here is hugely consequential in terms of the health of the economy and, of course, whether we ultimately see the "r" word -- the recession. But that's coming about -- coming out in about an hour.

BERMAN: All right. We will watch it closely. You just gave us a roadmap to decipher it. Thank you so much, Rahel Solomon.

So a new study finds the autism rate in the U.S. is on the rise. Why some experts say the study shows though an important improvement.

And there is no spoon, but there is a scientific breakthrough. A mouse watches "The Matrix" and produces stunning results.

(COMMERCIAL)

[05:44:47]

BERMAN: All right. New this morning, a Democratic leader working to defeat Democrats. David Hogg, the 25-year-old gun safety advocate and now vice chair of DNC, is launching a push to fund candidates who will face "ineffective" Democrats in primary elections next year.

[07:45:05]

He tells The New York Times, "What we are not saying here is oh, you're old, you need to go. What we are saying is we need to make room for a new generation -- a step up." I think we have a graphic of this. "...a new generation to step up and help make sure that we have people that are the most acutely impacted by a lot of the issues that we are legislating on that are actually going to live to see the consequences of this."

With us now, CNN political commentator Shermichael Singleton, and Democratic strategist Chuck Rocha.

Chuck, how much do you love seeing the vice chair of the DNC trying to raise money to defeat Democrats?

CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, PRESIDENT, SOLIDARITY STRATEGIES (via Webex by Cisco): Well, that's never a good thing when you have dem-on-dem crime. I don't like seeing that at all. But I do like to see a new voice in our party. And he -- there's a lot of points that he makes that are right. There's a lot of different ways you could go about it.

Are a lot of people in our party old and been around for a long time? I clear my throat and talk about all of the consultants who have been running, actually, the campaigns for a very long time. That's who really needs to go.

And if an incumbent is not doing their job, they're going to be vulnerable. But if you're a Democrat and you're doing the job, no matter who runs against you you're not going to get beat.

So I love seeing all the voices, especially the young voices in our party.

BERMAN: Shermichael, now David Hogg claims he really only wants to target Democrats in safe seats --

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yeah.

BERMAN: -- right? Now, Republicans -- you've done a version of this for some time.

SINGLETON: Yeah, we have -- we have.

BERMAN: It hasn't always worked out well.

SINGLETON: Yeah. We've learned a thing or two from that also. And I think it's why you've seen the president sort of change his strategy in terms of the types of Republican candidates he's endorsed for congressional seats all the way to Senate seats, to those running for governor.

I've got to be honest; I sort of love this. I think these sort of nihilistic tendencies of this sort of new, modern, progressive left and their moral performative outrage is not going to bode well for my friends on the Democratic side. And I think that it's OK to have dissent within your party. I think you do have to embrace the new wave of leadership.

But I think Democrats have to be careful because we've seen, John, in a slew of elections that while some of this progressivism may work in California and may work here in New York City, it does not work across the rest of America. Americans have, for the most part, rejected this.

So if this is going to be the new direction for the Democratic Party, I think from my perspective as a conservative, it will bode well for our electoral success going into midterms and beyond.

BERMAN: Chuck, how much does it worry you that Shermichael loves this so much?

SINGLETON: (Laughing).

ROCHA: It always worries me when Shermichael uses words like nihilism because he knows I don't know what that means.

SINGLETON: (Laughing).

ROCHA: Look, when you start looking at the way that Bernie Sanders and AOC are barnstorming the country -- look at the top three money producers that just come out when they had to file how much money Democrats had raised. It was AOC, it was Bernie, it was senators like Cory Booker and others who have been standing up.

The reason that the popularity of the party is low is not because people don't believe in them. It's because people want them to fight more. So we need Democrats out there fighting. I just hope we ain't just fighting each other.

BERMAN: Yeah. Look, it is worth noting --

SINGLETON: It's a good point.

BERMAN: -- Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez -- she raised $9.2 million -- I think it was $9.2 million -- maybe $9.6 million in the first quarter, which is a lot of money.

ROCHA: A bunch, yeah.

BERMAN: A lot of money. And it does show you where there is energy in the Democratic Party. We'll see how that is harnessed going forward.

I want to focus a little bit on what Punchbowl is reporting this morning, Shermichael, on some House Republicans.

SINGLETON: Yeah.

BERMAN: So-called moderate House Republicans who are nervous --

SINGLETON: Um-hum.

BERMAN: -- that the rest of the House Republicans are going to cut Medicaid.

SINGLETON: Um-hum.

BERMAN: So Punchbowl reports, "A dozen House Republicans are warning GOP leaders that they won't back a reconciliation package that includes massive cuts to Medicaid. That's according to a letter first obtained by Punchbowl News."

How does that bode for the plans to get all of this through?

SINGLETON: And maintain that majority --

BERMAN: Yeah.

SINGLETON: -- that I was just talking about.

I mean, Medicaid and Social Security -- these are things that for the most part we have all acknowledged they are -- it's like a political landmine. You don't want to touch these things because people rely on them, and they depend on them.

I think we have to reform them. I think for the most part even Democrats would argue we need to have some reform the longevity of these programs going forward. I think Republicans should start there. But to have drastic cuts -- politically, I would advise against it, particularly when we have such a slim majority in the House. John, I want to expand that majority. I don't want to decrease it.

Let's reform it. Let's talk to the American people about what those reforms would look like so that the program can bode well for generations to come.

BERMAN: Chuck, how much are young political consultants like you, on the Democratic side, going to talk about Medicaid during this next election?

ROCHA: Look, Democrats love to talk about Medicaid but there is so much more that we could talk about because folks do care about Social Security. The reason young folks like me -- excuse me, John -- don't talk about Medicaid as much is because there's other things on young people's mind, like me, like making a living, supporting your family. We have to lean into both of those.

And many times Republicans -- we can draw a distinction with them on what they're doing to cut into those services or make things more expensive. I've been telling Democrats affordability, affordability, affordability. That's what we should be focused on the every day price of folks just trying to make it.

[07:50:05]

BERMAN: All right, Shermichael Singleton, Chuck Rocha. Great to see both of you this morning up bright and early over there on the West Coast, Chuck. Thanks so much.

SINGLETON: Thanks, John.

BOLDUAN: Also a serious topic but also strong --

ROCHA: You can give Shermichael all the credit. He got me up.

BOLDUAN: We weren't going to divulge that part about having --

BERMAN: An example.

BOLDUAN: -- to track you down there, Chuck, but --

BERMAN: A wake-up call from Shermichael Singleton.

BOLDUAN: Are you offering those up because, you know --

SINGLETON: You know, Chuck is my guy, and I could not do this without him.

BOLDUAN: Oh, yeah, literally.

SINGLETON: Literally, right?

BOLDUAN: Yeah. It's your side hustle offering wake-up calls at all hours. Anyway, thanks, gentlemen. We'll take it now from Kate.

OK, we have a new study that is coming from the CDC finding that the autism rate is rising in the United States continuing a long-term trend that experts have attributed in big part to increased awareness and a better understanding of the disorder, and also better screening for the condition.

The data comes from 2022. The CDC finding about one in every 31 children was diagnosed with autism by age eight. Compare that, as you see on your screen. In 2020 it was one in 36 children.

Now, some of the other conclusions coming out -- the CDC says a diagnosis is more common in boys than young girls. More common among children of color than among white children.

This is all being reported out, again, by the CDC as the Secretary of Health and Human Services who oversees the CDC continues to dance around autism and vaccine conspiracy theories vowing to find a "cause."

Joining me right now, CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner. Also, always up bright and early. It's good to see you, Doctor.

I would like your -- first and foremost, just your reaction to this latest data.

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST, PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE AND SURGERY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY (via Webex by Cisco): So I'm glad to see a focus on autism. It's a disorder that affects so many families in the United States, and if it doesn't affect your family, you very likely know a family that is affected by this. So I think the spotlight on this and the research into this is great.

I'll note, by the way, that basically, the one program at the CDC where there were no funding cuts was to the autism program. So I'm glad -- I'm glad to see that.

This study basically shows that we're getting better at identifying what's called autism spectrum disorder. And the prevalence in the United States has changed -- or the apparent prevalence in the United States seems to have changed over the last not just two years, but over the last 50 years not because the disorder necessarily is happening more frequently, although it's possible -- it's possible that it is -- but more likely because we're getting better at identifying it.

And if you look at this study that was just published by the CDC you see something interesting in terms of geographic differences in the United States. Places like California that spend a ton of money in terms of training pediatricians and setting up regional centers for evaluation and treatment of children with autism spectrum disorder -- they identify the disease much more frequently than places like Texas that spend less money or have less of a focus on it.

I mean, the -- in California, I think the incidence was 51 --

BOLDUAN: Um-hum.

REINER: -- and in Texas much lower. So a lot of -- a lot of the changes in the past couple of years

probably has to do with how much better we're getting at identifying the -- this problem.

BOLDUAN: This also shines a spotlight once again on the current leadership at the Department of Health and Human Services, which is Secretary Kennedy. I mean, he has just launched a massive testing and research effort in order to, as he says, identify what has caused the autism epidemic, and he wants to determine it by September.

But this gets to RFK Jr., for years, has linked the rising prevalence of autism to vaccines despite the volumes and volumes of scientific research that has debunked that claim.

Just last week in a press release I saw him say, "Autism is preventable and it is unforgivable..." The Autism Society came out and pushed back harder on that saying that -- saying that what he's saying when you say it's preventable is not only misleading, but it's also not based in science.

[07:55:00]

I mean, what do you then expect to come out of this "massive" amount of effort that the secretary is directing HHS to undertake into the causes of autism?

REINER: I expect Secretary Kennedy is going to come out with a statement that says vaccines cause autism. He has stated this over and over, over the last two decades.

He's put in place in HHS a -- not just vaccine skeptic, a misinformation propaganda. And David Guyer, someone who was sanctioned in the past in Maryland -- a non-physician sanctioned in the past for practicing medicine without a license -- he's put him in charge of the effort at HHS to determine the link between vaccines and autism.

And if you tell me that you're going to mount this massive effort to understand the cause of autism, I'm all for it. But if you tell me it's going to happen in five months, I don't believe you'll give me a realistic answer. I don't believe you're serious.

BOLDUAN: Jonathan Reiner. Doctor, it's good to see you. Thank you -- John.

BERMAN: All right. In a landmark ruling, the United Kingdom's Supreme Court has decided that the legal definition of woman does not include trans women. The ruling focused on whether trans women who have a gender recognition certificate are protected from discrimination. The U.K.'s highest court decided that when defining a woman in the application of equality law, woman refers to a "biological woman and biological sex."

Health and Human Services Secretary Robert Kennedy Jr. wants more states to put limitations on SNAP benefits. That's the program that provides food benefits to low-income families. Indiana and Arkansas just became the latest states to move to ban food stamp purchases of soda and candy.

So this morning if you are looking to get around a mammal's brain you now have the best map ever created. In a project that lasted nearly a decade scientists produced the first accurate three-dimensional map of a mammal's brain, and they did it by recording the brain activity of a mouse watching 10-second clips of movies like "The Matrix" and extreme sports segments on YouTube. That sounds very scientific.

The map shows the structure and activity of 84,000 neurons and 200,000 brain cells. The study was published in the journal Nature and could help with Alzheimer's research.

I will say even though there is now this great map, Kate, I would still probably still use Waze.

BOLDUAN: I never know where you're going to take it, and I love you for it. Thanks, J.B.

All right. So in his first public remarks since leaving office, former President Joe Biden denounced the Trump administration's staffing cuts to Social Security, calling them destructive. Calling them damaging. And Joe Biden also spoke out accusing the Trump White House of taking a hatchet to the agency that's responsible for monthly benefits to 73 million Americans.

Rene Marsh has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: Sixty trillion dollars --

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): President Donald Trump has repeatedly said he will not touch Social Security benefits but he and Elon Musk often and without evidence claim fraud is rampant in the system.

TRUMP: Government databases list 4.7 million Social Security members from people aged 100 to 109 years old.

ELON MUSK, DOGE: Social Security is the biggest Ponzi scheme of all time.

MARSH (voiceover): Trump's Commerce secretary, Howard Lutnick, has even suggested it wouldn't be a big deal for Americans to miss a monthly Social Security payment.

HOWARD LUTNICK, COMMERCE SECRETARY: My mother-in-law, who is 94 -- she wouldn't call and complain. She just wouldn't. She'd think something got messed up and she'll get it next month.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.

LUTNICK: A fraudster always makes the loudest noise.

MARSH (voiceover): Meanwhile, the agency that pays retirement and disability benefits to more than 70 million Americans is undergoing a massive reorganization that is sparking fears the system could collapse.

Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency plans to slash roughly 7,000 from the agency's workforce at a time when staffing is at historic lows. Aging computer systems are plagued with outages and new anti-fraud measures are causing widespread confusion.

JUDITH BROWN, RECEIVES BENEFITS FROM SSA: This Musk and Trump plan is what I call slash and crash. It would really destroy the services that families like mine rely on. Our entire existence is on the line.

MARSH (voiceover): Social Security is a major source of income for elderly Americans. For more than a third of people over 65 it accounts for more than half of their income.

The administration has moved to cut off benefits for some by listing thousands of immigrants as dead in a Social Security database even though they're still alive. The White House insisting they're on a terror watchlist or have criminal records.

And DOGE is also pushing against court orders for sensitive personal data held by the agency, including employment, pay history, and home addresses in hopes of using it to help the president's immigration enforcement agenda.