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Judge Finds Probable Cause to Hold Trump Administration in Criminal Contempt for Violating Deportation Orders; Fed Chair Jerome Powell Gives Starkest Warning Yet on Potential Economic Consequences from Tariffs; DOJ, White House Reviewing Viability of Sending U.S. Criminals to El Salvador Prison. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 16, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:01:35]

ERICA HILL, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": Breaking news, a judge ruling there is probable cause to hold Trump administration officials in criminal contempt for violating court orders to halt deportation flights. The White House vowing to fight back.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": Plus, happening now, stocks sliding after Fed Chair Jerome Powell sounds off on President Trump's escalating trade war. He says the impacts of the tariffs likely include higher inflation and slower growth ahead, what this all means for your wallet. And the Justice Department suing Maine over its refusal to comply with a ban on transgender athletes in high school sports. We're going to speak with that state's attorney general about how they plan to respond. We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to "CNN News Central."

Thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. I'm Boris Sanchez, alongside Erica Hill, who's in for Brianna Keilar and we are tracking breaking news this hour. The White House says it plans "immediate appellate relief" after a federal judge found probable cause to hold Trump administration officials in criminal contempt. It stems from those critical hours last month when the Trump administration sent hundreds of alleged gang members to El Salvador under the Alien Enemies Act despite the judge's order to halt those flights and turn them around.

HILL: So all of this is CNN (ph). He is also learning the Justice Department and the White House Counsel's office are now examining just how they can fulfill President Trump's stated desire to send American citizens who have committed violent crimes to El Salvador's mega prison as well. CNN's Jeff Zeleny is live for us at the White House. Also joining us here at the desk, CNN Senior Crime and Justice Correspondent Katelyn Polantz.

Katelyn, I want to begin first with what we heard from Judge Boasberg finding probable cause that he could hold administration officials in criminal contempt.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, this all dates back to a hearing on March 15th, a Saturday, when three planes full of migrants were lifting off from American soil, taking those people to El Salvadoran prison and giving them to the hands of the Salvadoran government. During that day, this Judge, Judge Boasberg held hearings and now, he's asking, was the administration willfully violating orders he was giving from the bench that day to say turn the planes around. We have to check this out legally, if these people have been removed properly under law -- under the law, they may not have been.

Now, he's saying in a 46 page opinion, it looks like it that the Justice Department was willfully and intentionally violating his orders. Some of the language he uses, he says the lawyers in this case have been stonewalling him. They've been cherry picking facts. They've been violating him in a way where they're defying the court deliberately, gleefully, tweeting about him, retweeting. The president of El Salvador saying, Oopsie, too late to have these men back, who are migrants in that prison.

So now, this is on the path to a criminal contempt conviction for someone in the administration. So we're not there yet. There is a set of steps that Judge Boasberg will take. He'll be getting sworn statements in the next coming days, and then he could ask the Justice Department to prosecute someone for criminal contempt if he thinks that is indeed what happened here. He is already making a lot of probable cause findings or he could appoint his own special prosecutor.

[14:05:00]

One of the things he wrote, just a quick quote from this, "From the opening hours of Saturday, March 15th, the government's conduct betrayed a desire to outrun the equitable reach of the judiciary. Hustling class members, that's the migrants, to an airplane before the presidential proclamation had ever been published publicly. And in the face of a lawsuit that sought a temporary restraining order was bad enough. The decision to launch planes during the afternoon court hearing was even worse. The Constitution does not tolerate willful disobedience of judicial orders, especially by officials of a coordinate branch who have sworn an oath to uphold it."

HILL: So that is something, not surprisingly, we know the White House is going to respond. Jeff Zeleny joining us now with more on the administration's response. They are not buying it.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: No. And we're getting the first response now officially from the White House as they digest this 46-page ruling. And we know that the president has long gone after this judge in particular, Judge James Boasberg, who of course was appointed to the court initially by President George W. Bush and then elevated by President Barack Obama.

But, the President Donald Trump has called for the impeachment of Judge Boasberg. He has been in his sights ever since this case began. But we are getting a new statement, a new comment from Steven Cheung, who's the White House Communications Director, specifically about this ruling. Let's take a look at that. He said, we plan to seek immediately -- immediate appellate relief. The president is one a hundred percent committed to ensuring that terrorists and criminal legal migrants are no longer a threat to Americans and their communities across the country.

So, appealing this ruling. That's the bottom line to that. Of course, no surprise to this. So this is where it will go. We will see what the appellate court, the appellate judges say about this. But look, the bottom line to this, this judge in his rulings, despite having a reputation as an even-handed judge, he was a roommate of Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh during law school. He has been a singled out by this president for his rulings. We shall see where this goes. But criminal contempt, of course, is a very serious matter as we all know.

SANCHEZ: And Jeff, when it comes to the administration taking this significant step toward achieving Trump's goal of sending U.S.-born criminals, homegrown criminals as he calls them, to El Salvador, what's the latest there?

ZELENY: Look, I mean, the White House has been very clear about this, particularly in the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who's been in the news, of course. And even as the courts are still ruling in that case, the White House and top administration officials are making clear that their view is already solid on this. Listen to the Attorney General Pam Bondi earlier today.

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PAM BONDI, (R) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: He is not coming back to our country. President Bukele said he was not sending him back. That's the end of the story. If he wanted to send him back, we would give him a plane ride back. There was no situation ever where he was going to stay in this country, none, none. But he's from El Salvador. He's in El Salvador, and that's where the president plans on keeping him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: And of course, this is the man who the Supreme Court said the U.S. government must facilitate his release from that prison in El Salvador. Of course, this has been playing out and really shining a light on this Trump administration's immigration and deportation policies, that a court case is one of the many that will be heard here. But certainly, the administration is trying to close the door even as justices and the courts have done anything but that.

HILL: Yeah.

ZELENY: Boris and Erica?

HILL: Absolutely. Really, it is coming fast and furious today. That is for sure. Jeff, appreciate it as always. Thank you. Also with us now, Former Acting Homeland Security Secretary under President Trump's first administration, Chad Wolf. It's nice to have you back today. As I mentioned, just said to Jeff, fast and furious. So, we're going to do a little bit of rapid fire because there is so much to cover with you at this hour.

Let's start first with what we heard from this ruling from Judge Boasberg saying that he believes there's probable cause that exists to hold officials in criminal contempt for violating his orders last month. The White House says it plans to seek immediate appellate relief. Is this yet another issue where you see ultimately, this ends up before the Supreme Court?

CHAD WOLF, FORMER ACTING UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: I do. I do think it will end up before the Supreme Court. Look, the judge's ruling to begin with was nonsense to turn planes around in the middle of those flights. But as you indicated, obviously, the administration disagrees with this ruling. They're going to appeal it. It is likely to go to the Supreme Court yet, once again.

If we remember, the Supreme Court has already said in one case that, that type of filing doesn't belong with judge -- with this judge. It actually belongs in the state of Texas, in the Fifth Circuit. So, there's more to be played out here and obviously, there's more declarations by the Department of Justice.

[14:10:00]

HILL: You had also told my colleague Brianna Keilar not long ago, right, when we look at some of the rulings that we've seen, what we've also seen from the courts is there should have been some due process here. And you made the point to her, I'm paraphrasing here, so bear with me, that had they followed that, perhaps we wouldn't be in this situation now. Do you still stand by that?

WOLF: Well, I think there's a couple of different things at play here. I think fundamentally, this is a citizen from El Salvador. He has no legal right to be in the United States. And what I also said at that time, which I don't think you did read, is that he is -- he has no legal right. He has a final order of removal to be removed from the United States. So this idea that he is to come home, home being the United States, which he is again not a citizen of, is just not in the cards. He has no legal right to be here in the United States. And so he should be removed. And again, he is a member of a foreign terrorist organization designated by President Trump and eligible for removal under that as well.

HILL: So two points, there has not yet been clear evidence presented that he is in fact a member of a terrorist organization. So I think that's important to point out. But number two, in terms of being removed, he was -- there was a legal order that he was not supposed to be removed to El Salvador. That's where he was sent.

WOLF: So two things, two different judges has said -- have said that he actually does have ties to MS-13. One is the immigration judge and one is an appellate judge. So, that is there. Now, I think you are right, it's not out in public, but a lot of these immigration court proceedings never make their way into the public domain. So, there is that point, there is a withholding of removal as you indicated, that is also from 2019. My guess is the basis for that withholding is probably come and gone because I understand that the gang that he was scared of and seeking withholding from no longer exists in El Salvador. So I think there's a number of different things here at play, but at the end of the day, again, I think it's very, very important to say MS-13 gang member, a foreign terrorist organization, you have the ability to remove those folks. And then again, he is a citizen of El Salvador.

HILL: Right. But we're going to have to move on to other things. But again, there was a specific order. He was not to be sent to El Salvador. I do want to ask you about what we're hearing. So President Trump had noted on more than one occasion that he would like to look into the possibility of sending, what he calls, homegrown criminals, American citizens to prisons in other countries, potentially in El Salvador.

So, we're learning today that the DOJ and the White House Counsel's office are seriously looking into the viability of this measure. Do you believe that the president has the legal authority to do that?

WOLF: Well, I'm not an attorney, so I'm not going to pontificate on that. Look, the president said it himself. He certainly has an interest in it, but he also wanted to see if it was legal. So as you indicated, the Department of Justice and others are taking a close look at that and they'll go by whatever is legally viable to do in this case.

HILL: Does anything about that give you pause or do you think that that is an avenue that should in fact be explored?

WOLF: If it is legally permissible, it doesn't give me pause. Obviously, it hasn't been done before. But, that's not to say it is illegal. Again, I'm not an attorney, so I'm not going to pontificate on the benefits or the cons of whether or not this is illegal. The president was very clear. He certainly has an interest in doing that, but he also directed the Department of Justice to see about the legality of it.

HILL: Chad Wolf, appreciate you joining us. Thank you.

WOLF: Thank you.

HILL: Still ahead here, a stark new warning from Fed Chair Jerome Powell about the pain we could soon feel from President Trump's tariffs and just how long that pain could last. Plus, Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. goes against new findings from his own department, claiming that autism is caused not by genes, but by an environmental toxin. We're going to take a closer look at these latest claims from the secretary.

Plus, the Justice Department now slapping the state of Maine with a new lawsuit. We'll take a closer look at why. That and much more ahead right here on "CNN News Central."

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[14:18:28]

HILL: Moments ago, Fed Chair Jerome Powell giving his starkest warning yet on President Trump's tariffs.

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JEROME POWELL, CHAIR OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE OF THE UNITED STATES: The level of tariff increases announced so far is significantly larger than anticipated and the same is likely to be true of the economic effects, which will include higher inflation and slower growth. Tariffs are highly likely to generate at least a temporary rise in inflation. Inflationary effects could also be more persistent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Wall Street clearly not a fan of this new message. Joining us now to discuss, CNN Business Editor at Large, Richard Quest, who's actually live this hour at the New York International Auto Show. I imagine there's a little bit of chatter about this there too. So, Powell here said the public's going to pay for these tariffs and basically said, brace yourself, there's some pain coming our way.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: Yes, and although he had said this before just a few weeks ago, he sort of alluded to it and made some tangential reference. This time it was full throttle. Anybody who's used to Fed speak knew exactly what Powell was saying, that inflation is going to go up. The worry is that that inflation once it arrives will be persistent on top of that, which is already in the system.

And you go one plus one plus one equals, it means that the Fed won't be able to allow interest rates because what the Fed chair said is that the dual mandate, full employment, price stability, are now about to go into conflict.

[14:20:00]

They're going to have higher inflation and that's meaning -- going to mean higher interest rates for longer period. How much longer? How high? What they're going to do? No one knows because it's so uncertain. But this is not -- this is not the canary in the mine. This is actually the man walking in front with a red flag.

HILL: The red flag. But when it comes from Jerome Powell, right, it does hold a certain significance for him to be that direct. Richard, appreciate it.

QUEST: Oh, yeah.

HILL: Still to come here, months after a pattern of drone sightings raised alarm across a number of states, the FAA is now making sure it has the right tools for keeping eyes on the sky. Plus, Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. makes stunning claims about autism, claims that go against the findings from his own department. We're going to fact check those remarks next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:33]

SANCHEZ: New today, the Department of Justice is suing the state of Maine for refusing to comply with President Trump's ban on transgender athletes in high school sports. Attorney General Pam Bondi accuses Maine of "discriminating against women by failing to protect women in women's sports." Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BONDI: This is about sports. This is also about these young women's personal safety. I've met many of these women throughout the past weeks and months, and what they have been through is horrific.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Let's discuss with Maine's Attorney General Aaron Frey. Aaron, thank you so much for being with us. So, Attorney General Bondi pushed back on claims from Janet Mills, Maine's Governor, that there's only two transgender athletes currently competing in Maine sports, saying that her department merely offered two examples. I do wonder if you could put into context for us, how many trans athletes are currently competing and how you've gone about by determining that number.

AARON FREY, MAINE ATTORNEY GENERAL: Sure. Thanks for having me today. I do understand from those in Maine, who are on the ground facilitating these programs, that there is just a small number of trans students who are participating in sports. That two number is all that we have come up with. Certainly, as the -- we've been working through to understand what, if any, problem really exists with the participation, if some of the harms that are being alleged really are of some concern.

And what we've identified is, there really is -- there are no concerns of safety. There are no concerns about individuals who are just choosing which gender they want to give themself in order to participate. So, that too is really after a lot of work of trying to figure out whether or not there's any issue here, that warrants this intrusion by the federal government into what's going on in Maine schools.

SANCHEZ: So is your contention, essentially, that DOJ is inventing this issue out of thin air without substantive claim to a problem that's happening in your state? Is that what you're saying?

FREY: Well, our position is that Title IX, consistent with the Maine Human Rights Act, so both federal and state law support that trans girls are going to be able to participate in high school sports, consistent with their gender identity. We read Title IX as supporting that. We read Maine Human Rights Act as supporting that. We've provided citations to the Department of Justice and to federal agencies in support of our position, which have met with no response whatsoever from the federal government as to why they think they are correct, except to offer the president's executive order which, contrary to their understanding of basic civics, does not have the force of law.

So, my contention is Maine is following Title IX, Maine is following the Maine Human Rights Act. Those are read (ph) consistently, and the extent to which the Department of Justice has decided to file suit without really being able to articulate what the legal problem is, I really think that that's unfortunate.

SANCHEZ: What do you say to parents who are concerned about this issue with their own kids? There's a lot of parents out there who argue in -- with anecdotal cases, that their children have been at risk or injured in certain cases competing alongside transgender athletes. There's also, for example, a pole vaulter who had competed unsuccessfully in Maine against boys a few years ago. They transitioned, they later won a state championship when competing against girls. There's concerns among parents about competitive advantages there. What do you say to those folks?

FREY: Well, so a couple of things. First, Title IX, the Maine Human Rights Act, they're not designed in order to create an opportunity to win. They're designed to create an opportunity to fully appreciate engagement in sports, in particular no discrimination based on sex. And so understanding that parents may have concerns, I guess what I'd offer is, there have been trans students who have been participating for years in school sports without there being any issue. There has been this raising of a specter that there may be some safety concern, the specter that there may be some harms, but there really, other than pointing to a student winning over some other student --