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American Citizen Swept Up In Immigration Crackdown; Doge Accused Of Forcing Employees To Work 36 Hours Straight; Possibility Of Life Far, Far From Earth; White House Says Abrego Garcia Is Never Coming Back To U.S.; Trump Calls Harvard A Disgrace When Asked About Possible Changes To The University's Tax Status; Trump Says Ukraine Deal Needs To Get Done Quickly. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 18, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:01:30]

ERICA HILL, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": How did an American citizen born in Georgia get swept up by ICE? The details on a traffic stop in Florida that ended with one man in jail charged with entering the state illegally. Plus, working 36 hours straight while being screamed at, staffer at one federal agency details how DOGE forced employees to process hundreds of layoffs. And could there be life out there? Maybe some, I don't know, 124 light years away from earth. Scientists pretty excited about what they've spotted on a planet named K2-18b. Haven't heard of it? Don't worry, we have all the details on that developing major story and many others coming in right here to "CNN News Central."

We do begin this hour with the White House and its escalating attacks against a Maryland man in his attempt -- in an attempt rather to defend his deportation to El Salvador, a deportation which had already been admitted to have been done in error. Moments ago, President Trump unloading on Kilmar Abrego Garcia, an immigrant who had been living legally in Maryland with his American wife and son. President Trump detailed in graphic terms an alleged domestic dispute Abrego Garcia had with his wife and also accused him of being an "illegal alien, gang member and terrorist."

Now, shortly before those remarks from the president, the White House doubled, or maybe even we should say tripled down at this point on its refusal to return Abrego Garcia to the United States. The official White House X account posting an edited screenshot of The New York Times article about Maryland Senator Chris Van Hollen's meeting with Abrego Garcia on Thursday in El Salvador, striking out the original headline as you see there, changing it to read Senator meets with deported MS-13 illegal alien in El Salvador who is never coming back.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez has been following this story. So Priscilla, when we look at this, it is remarkable in the last, I would say even really 24 hours, how much the narrative is changing from the administration and from the president. And they are really leaning into this picture that they want to paint of Abrego Garcia. PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, they are surfacing different records in his past. Now, I think we should break this into two different buckets. There is the bucket of documents that have been submitted in court, and then there are those that have not, but have been aired out in the public forum. So in court, what has been submitted has been what occurred over the course of his 2019 immigration proceeding. Why is that important? Because in 2019, he had a brush with law enforcement in Maryland and that manifested itself into a police report where they made ties to MS-13.

Now, the reason for that is because of a confidential informant and because of his attire at the time of arrest. Then he was put into bond proceedings. Those are bond proceedings that often happen when someone is detained by ICE. They can try to be released from ICE and they go before an immigration judge, and if they don't agree with the immigration judge ruling, they can appeal it. That's why we have two rulings here.

These rulings have been often talked about by senior Trump officials, including the president himself, because they defaulted to what ICE said and what the police report said about his ties to MS-13. They did not, however, make a conclusive finding on it. They just used it also as a basis to not release him and keep him detained. Ultimately, however, we do know that he was released and granted a form of immigration relief while he was in the United States. Now, all of that has been in the record.

[14:05:00]

We hear about this police report often. What is also true over the course of those 2019 immigration proceedings is that there wasn't further evidence to make that tie to MS-13. And because this is the only record that has been before the federal judge in Maryland, she said very specifically in a footnote in her opinion, that there has been no evidence or documentation to conclusively find that he is part of the MS-13 gang. So, all of that sort of is one bucket that is playing out in the record in court.

Then there is what has been happening publicly over the course of the week, the domestic violence petition which details, for example, hitting and scratching back in 2021. It's an incident of a disagreement between him and his wife and that she of course, filed this petition. I have received a statement from his wife who says it was a difficult time in their marriage. He had also just been released from ICE custody, and that they went to counseling and worked through that. All the same, that is a petition typically not public unless shared by the victim. It has been one that has now been distributed and aired out, and it is part of his record. No charges filed, however.

Then, there has also been, the talk about a traffic stop in Tennessee and sort of the inference of human trafficking. Again, this was something that his wife also commented on, said that he often drove long ways, that he worked in construction. And again, no charges filed. So those things, however, while talked about extensively by senior Trump officials, has not been put into the record in court. And that's important because that does establish the record, the justice -- the federal judge has asked repeatedly for documentation to make that tie.

But ultimately, if you look at this just through the lens of MS-13 and the alleged tie there, they have not substantiated it beyond the 2019 police report.

HILL: Which again, just to sort of close the circle on that, was one confidential informant and a reference to something he was wearing at the time.

ALVAREZ: Correct.

HILL: But that was it. And again, to your point, it really didn't go on beyond those two things and certainly has not been submitted to the judge at this point, anything additional?

ALVAREZ: Nothing additional has been --

HILL: Yes.

ALVAREZ: -- submitted at this point. That's right. Yeah.

HILL: Priscilla, appreciate it as always. Thank you. Well, a 20-year- old man who is an American citizen, a man born in Georgia, has now been released from jail but after initially being charged as an unauthorized alien in Florida. So stay with me on this one. According to reports, Juan Carlos Lopez-Gomez was arrested by Florida Highway Patrol on Wednesday under a new state immigration law. It is important to note this is a law that has reportedly been temporarily blocked by a judge. CNN's Dianne Gallagher is following these developments for us.

So, I think a lot of people see that headline and they say, wait a minute, how could this happen? Dianne, walk us through how this went down.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So that's the question that a lot of people have here right now. So, he has been released at this point. He's with his family and his attorney tells us that the next option for them is basically looking at civil liabilities in this case. So as you mentioned, there are two separate issues at play here with the arrest and the immigration detention of one Carlos Lopez- Gomez.

First and most obvious, he's not an undocumented immigrant, nor is he an immigrant at all. He was born in the U.S. in Cairo, Georgia. And his mother brought his birth certificate, his Social Security paperwork to the judge at this hearing, presented it. The judge validated it, said this is real. And also said, I still don't have the jurisdiction to remove this federal ICE hold from your son. So, he remained in custody. The second of the issues at play here is that law that he was charged with breaking, which again, he can't break because he is a U.S. citizen.

But it's a new law that is in the state of Florida that basically says that, it's a state crime for an undocumented person to enter or re- enter Florida. However, a federal judge temporarily blocked that earlier this month, and that block was still in effect when this arrest was made. So. it is unclear at this time why they were charging anyone with this. There's a hearing about that temporary restraining order on the law today in Miami, but we've not received any sort of response as to why troopers were still charging people with this when it was on pause.

Now, basically what happened according to attorneys, advocates and the arrest affidavit is that Lopez-Gomez was riding in a vehicle that was pulled over for speeding on Wednesday. According to the arrest affidavit, the man who was driving said he didn't have a license and he was not here in the country legally. The trooper claims that he asked all three men if they were here illegally, and they all said they were. Lopez-Gomez's attorney disputes that saying that there's no reason that his client would've said that he was here illegally because he's a U.S.-born citizen.

[14:10:00]

But he also notes that his first language is neither Spanish nor English, that he speaks an indigenous language. So it's possible there was a communication barrier there. Still, he has a Social Security number. He has information that should have indicated that he was in fact a U.S. citizen. They're looking to find out what the breakdown is. Erica, there is some information from a community advocate who's been helping the family who says maybe there was some paperwork he filled out when he was a teenager, and he came back to the United States. He lived in Mexico from year -- from two-years-old until 16- years-old and said, maybe that's it.

But they still don't know, and they feel like the damage has been done, that he's very emotionally distraught over what he's been dealing with over the past couple of days.

HILL: It is really something. Dianne, I'm glad you're on this story. Thank you. In a federal ruling yesterday, three judges warned about the potential impact of President Trump's immigration policy and the impact it could have on U.S. citizens. That unanimous ruling was written by Judge Harvie Wilkinson, an appointee of former President Ronald Reagan. He writes, in part, if today the executive claims the right to deport without due process and in disregard of court orders, what assurance will there be tomorrow that it will not deport American citizens and then disclaim responsibility to bring them home?

Joining me now to discuss Daniel Ziblatt, who's the author of the book, "How Democracies Die." Daniel, it is good to have you with us this afternoon. I was struck by those words from Judge Wilkinson in that ruling and also, just in the last hour or so, something that President Trump said in the Oval Office. I want to play that moment for you.

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DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: One of the biggest reason, I think the biggest single reason actually, I'd like to say it's because of this, because I think they're going to come up with things that are incredible, but probably the biggest reason was because of the border and because of illegal immigration. We're getting them out and that's why I was elected. A judge wasn't elected to do that. I was elected to do that.

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HILL: The president talking there about immigration, about what is happening at the border. I found his comments, 'a judge wasn't elected to do that, I was elected to do that' so interesting because there is so much discussion right now about the ignoring of court orders. What do you make of that?

DANIEL ZIBLATT, CO-AUTHOR "HOW DEMOCRACIES DIE": Yeah, so I don't think anybody disputes the idea that a president or any elected officials should be able to have a very strict control over the border. That's what elections are about. But one of the things that we've come to learn in the 21st century is the way that autocracies are built is very different. Around the world, presidents, prime ministers often get elected at election time, and then the question is, what do they do once they're in office? Do you defy court orders? Do you respect the rights of the opposition or don't you?

And if you do, if you defy court orders, if you defy the constraints on an executive, then this is a problem for democracy. We have to remember, we live in a democratic republic. What that means is we don't live in a place where the executive, like a monarch, is unconstrained. And I think what makes people worried and what probably prompted this opinion, which is a really impressive opinion, is essentially the idea that if a president decides to just ignore what the court is telling him to do, in this case, facilitate the return of somebody who may, who knows, may be a criminal or not, but there has to be a due process, and that hasn't happened.

HILL: We hear about the death of democracy, a constitutional crisis, and that we're hearing more and more. What strikes me is those don't necessarily break through. I mean, I think, turn to any Democrat from the 2024 election and efforts to really run on this idea of threats to democracy, those weren't resonating with people. It was about grocery prices. It was about the border, to your point. So if we are in this moment, the judge also noted that this is either a crisis or it could potentially be an opportunity, but if we are in this moment, how do you get people to care?

ZIBLATT: Yeah. It's a real challenge and this is actually not so unusual. If you look at democracies in trouble around the world, very often voters don't quite realize that it's happening. It often happens incrementally, gradually. I think during these first few months of the Trump administration, things have been moving very quickly. But, years into Hugo Chavez, a dictator's rule, three quarters of Venezuelans thought they still lived in a democracy. And voters should vote on the things that concern them, whether it's economic issues, the border.

But the point is that political leaders certainly, and some voters need to understand what the threats are. And that's, that's really why it's so important, to call out when a red line is crossed. And I think, again, just a really clear red line that your viewers can have in mind is, does an executive comply with court orders? That's inherent to a democracy, a liberal republican democracy. And if they don't, then that's bad news. And so, we have to call this stuff out. Political leaders play a really important role. Civil leaders play a really important role. And voters I think will begin to pay attention.

HILL: It can feel like a lot, I think, for many people in this moment. There is so much happening on such a broad scale. I do want to get your take though about what we're seeing in higher education. You're also a Professor at Harvard. What do you see as the role of independent higher education when it comes to a functioning democracy?

[14:15:00]

ZIBLATT: Yeah, it's very interesting because there is this battle going on over anti-Semitism on campuses, a political battle the Trump administration is putting lots of pressure on universities. But again, you need to step back and understand that throughout the world when democracies have gotten into trouble, you can look at Hungary, you can look at Turkey, one of the first things that elected autocrats do is go after universities, because universities are often a location in society where you have all sorts of contentious ideas. It's an autonomous sphere of prestige and even kind of social power in a way.

And so autocrats don't like them. And so what -- when we see the effort to cut funding to universities on really spurious kinds of grounds, and I think in many ways weaponizing of the issue of anti- Semitism, then what you begin to see is this important sphere of civil society, universities, under attack. And so this is something, again, that's a kind of hallmark, I would say, of authoritarianism, especially in the modern era. And so, one should really take it with a grain of salt when one hears that universities are these kind of terrible places that need to be brought in line. This is what happens in autocracies. And so one should be very cautious about this.

HILL: Daniel Ziblatt, great to have your insight. Thank you.

ZIBLATT: Thank you.

HILL: Still to come this hour, the administration says it will need to "move on." If it doesn't seem like peace is possible between Russia and Ukraine, how quickly could that happen? Plus, we are learning more about the Florida State student accused of opening fire on the university's campus. And a bit later, a member of Elon Musk's DOGE team allegedly forced several employees to stay up for 36 hours straight, screamed at them during that time for not working fast enough to send out mass firings. Those stories and much more ahead right here on "CNN News Central."

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[14:21:10]

HILL: Today, President Trump said he wants a Ukraine peace deal done "quickly" and that message coming as he was taking questions after Secretary of State Marco Rubio had said that the U.S. would move on if progress to end the war was not made in a matter of days. Here's more from the president's exchange a short time ago.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you prepared to walk away completely from these efforts and these talks?

TRUMP: Well, I don't want to say that, but we want to see it end. We want to see it end. My whole life has been one big negotiation, and I know when people are playing us and I know when they're not. And I have to see an enthusiasm to want to end it. And I think I see that enthusiasm. I think I see it from both sides.

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HILL: The president was then asked whether Russia was playing him? His response, "Nobody is playing me. I'm trying to help." Joining me now, former CNN Moscow Bureau Chief Jill Dougherty. She's an Adjunct Professor at Georgetown University. Jill, good to see you, as always. I was struck by that comment about -- that he's looking for enthusiasm and he thinks he sees it from both sides here. I mean, in your view, based on your experience, what exactly would Russian enthusiasm in this moment look like?

JILL DOUGHERTY, FORMER CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: Well, they would stop the fighting. It would be very easy. Actually, I think when you think about it, the easiest thing would be for the people who started the war to end it, and that would be we stop. You know? I mean, it is entirely possible, but not likely that that's going to happen. So, I think what you've got is a very interesting day because you had Secretary Rubio saying, if there's no movement, we may have to just move on, as you pointed out. And then the president kind of tempering that and saying, well, we've got some progress. It looks we've got a chance.

But then I think it's significant what President Trump also added to that. And he did say if one side makes it more difficult, and he didn't say which side, we would have to say, you are foolish. You are a fool. You are horrible people. Now I -- that is not the terminology that President Trump, I think, would use about Vladimir Putin. It's really more of a terminology that he has used with the Ukrainians. You're idiots, you're fools. You're not doing a deal. So right now, I've got a little maybe good cop, bad cop.

HILL: Yeah.

DOUGHERTY: -- whatever. But I think there's high frustration that they can't get a deal right now.

HILL: You know, it's also fascinating to your point, in terms of the good cop, bad cop, and really in many ways, like the mixed messages honestly, that we're getting from this administration, because then you also had the vice president, after landing in Italy, say, Hey, he's optimistic that a deal could get done. And then yesterday, we heard from President Zelenskyy basically talking about that minerals deal again, saying there's a memorandum. We could maybe get some text already available, signed as quickly as today. That was yesterday. All of these things happening at once speaks to the discussions that are certainly happening behind the scenes. Does it also though, Jill, speak to this push in the moment that things do need to get done quickly? Maybe not for the reasons that Donald Trump wants it to get done quickly, but that things do need to start moving along?

DOUGHERTY: Well, in fairness, President Trump does say he is worried about the dying. And there's no question that most everybody is worried about the dying. It continues. I mean, just look at the past couple of weeks, we've had terrible attacks. So it's -- the fighting isn't stopping. And I think one of the problems is there was -- initially, with the Trump administration, there was a desire to simply end it as soon as possible.

But this is something where if you end it, you have to think about the future and a more, let's say, what they keep calling it out, security in Europe. It just doesn't end with Ukraine because Ukraine is there in the middle and the implications are very broad and very long.

[14:25:00]

So, there wasn't really a plan as far as I can see it from the Trump administration as to how to do that. It was just let's end the war. And now, it continues, you know? Well, let's try this. Let's try that. Looking good, no maybe not. Let's pull out. No, it's going to be OK. And I think that is the problem that they don't really, really have a specific plan, although they have said now that they have presented some type of plan, details of which we don't know to both sides.

HILL: Yeah, it's such a great point. There's ending the war, but then there's the day after and all the days to come, and that is certainly, in some ways, a much heavier lift to plan that out. Jill, always good to talk to you. Thanks.

DOUGHERTY: Thanks.

HILL: Just ahead, details about the accused gunman in that mass shooting at Florida State University, including reports of unsettling behavior and his close relationship with one local law enforcement official and that impact.

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