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Pope Francis Dies at Age 88; Pope Francis' Death Triggers Nine Days of Mourning; Sources Say, Hegseth Shared Yemen Strike Details in Second Group Chat. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired April 21, 2025 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello everyone. Good morning. I am Kate Bolduan with John Berman.

And we are following the breaking news. Pope Francis, a pope of firsts who helped to reshape the Catholic Church and faced fierce resistance in doing so, has died at the age of 88. The Vatican announced his passing this morning, less than a day after he'd appeared publicly to offer the traditional Easter blessing.

He was really just returning to public life and doing so after he spent 38 days in the hospital fighting double pneumonia. His illness so severe, it was reported he had almost died twice while in hospital in battling this sickness.

Francis broke the mold. He became the first Latin American pontiff in 2013, born in Argentina. He was the first non-European pontiff in nearly 1,300 years. He was also the first Jesuit to be elected pope in the church's 2,000-year history.

With his passing, a nine-day period of mourning begins before a papal conclave will then begin to choose the next leader of the world's 1.4 billion Catholics.

CNN's Christopher Lamb is live in St. Peters Square. CNN's Nic Robertson is standing by in London.

Chris, let me go to you. The crowds have been building there all this morning as the news was announced. What are you seeing there?

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there is in the square a very sad atmosphere, a somber atmosphere. Just an hour ago, bells were peeling out from St. Peter's marking the death of Pope Francis. Of course, Francis was a hugely popular pope. On Easter Sunday, yesterday, he was touring St. Peter's Square amongst the crowds, amongst people who were delighted to see him, even though he was clearly still struggling health-wise.

Of course, he was recovering, trying to recover from double pneumonia and he's still -- he was still at that point clearly not well. But Francis was very much a people's hope. And so he was someone who connected with the ordinary believer and not just Catholics, he was also very popular amongst other Christians and other believers.

So, there is a real sense of sadness here after the news came through this morning at 7:35 A.M. from Cardinal Kevin Farrell, the carmelengo of the Roman Curia, the churches in central administration. He announced the news this morning. So, really, as I said, a sense of sadness, a somber atmosphere.

Francis, of course, was an outsider pope too. He had never lived and studied in Rome when he was elected. And he shook up the Vatican church establishments, sometimes facing fierce opposition in his attempts to reform the Catholic Church's attempts to have a church that was closer to the poor, that was more welcoming.

Francis, of course, was a pope who shifted the approach of the Catholic Church when it comes to -- when it came to same sex couples. He offered blessings to them. He also was the pope who said, who am I to judge, when asked about gay priests. So, Francis shifted the Catholic Church's pastoral approach on that question.

And also when it came to things such as dialogue with other faiths, he reached out to Muslim leaders. He had a very strong rapport with the Grand Imam of Al Alzhar, the seat of Sunni learning in Egypt.

So, there is a great sense of sadness here as the news of such a reforming pope, a pope for the people who has died this morning.

BERMAN: He'd been so sick, fought through the illness, I think, bravely made it through Easter week and holiday week and surprised so many people, I think, by appearing in the Pope Mobile in St. Peters Square yesterday and then passing just after Easter this morning.

[07:05:00]

People in St. Peters Square yesterday observing Easter mass, and they are there this morning behind.

Christopher, he also appointed more than half the cardinals who will choose his successor, and, of course, we're now entering this period where there will be even more change and flux inside the Catholic Church.

Let's bring in Nic Robertson now to talk about that. Nic, so what next?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, certainly, what we're hearing from world leaders is that sense of loss that the Catholic faithful are feeling today and perhaps summed up best by Micheal Martin, the Irish prime minister. He was there when the pope obviously visited in 2018 at a time when the Catholic Church in Ireland was having difficulty settling its demons of the past of the clerical sexual abuse scandal. That was something that Pope Francis wanted to set right, if you will.

What we've heard from Micheal Martin, the Irish prime minister today, is that the world has lost a leader. That really sets the tone. He was a leader for compassion for humanity. We've heard similar expressions coming from so many European and other leaders today, the British prime minister saying that hope was at the heart of his leadership, that he was a pope for the poor. Emmanuel Macron, the French president, saying that he brought hope to the poorest, hope and joy to the poorest. Ursula von der Leyen, the European Commission president, touching on a point that, I think, is what's felt beyond the Catholic community. She said he touched millions of people beyond the Catholic faith because of his humanity, because he wanted to help the poor. We've heard from the president of Israel today, Isaac Herzog, talking about the importance of the interfaith dialogue that Pope Francis was keen to push forward, Shehbaz Sharif, the prime minister in Pakistan, echoing that as well. From New Zealand, we've heard the prime minister there again praising the humanity of the pope.

This was a pope who wanted to help the poor, who felt keenly the suffering of the poor, who felt that his voice could add and lend a hand and help not just be a pastor, if you will, to their spiritual needs, but actually bring change by highlighting that flight, by putting that on the world stage, by communicating with these leaders who are remembering him today.

BERMAN: In so many ways, Nic, he was transformational, as you say, the way he ascended to the papacy, transformational to begin with. Pope Benedict retired basically and then Pope Francis again ascended to the papal throne in a very different way, trying to be a very different pope. And as you mentioned, he has stood up for migrants at a time when I think the global trends have gone against immigration. His first trip as Pope was the to the Italian Island of Lampedusa, which at that point was a center for migration from Africa and Asia toward Europe. This was something that he worked for and fought for even against many world trends.

ROBERTSON: And against the trend in some ways of popular opinion in Italy, which really grew to resent the presence of migrants. And that trip our correspondent, Christopher Lamb, was talking about this just earlier. When the Pope first decided to make that trip, his first as pope to Lampedusa, he originally tried to book it through the Italian airline in his own name, not his given name as pope. He didn't try to book it as Pope Francis. The airline contacted the Vatican to find out what was going on. This was extraordinary.

So, his first mission, if you will, was to try to help and bring enlightenment to the rest of us about compassion and help here. And, again, his trip 2018 to Ireland, I use that as just one of many that were out there. This was, again, at a time where the Catholic Church was having huge difficulty with its image, with its legacy, with the abuse scandal that was dogging it.

And in Ireland, this was a country that was so conservative in its values, and this was a pope who pushed that the country was moving forward, but he was an enabler and a pusher of that modernization in that way, if you will.

BERMAN: No question about that. I love the idea of him trying to book an eticket to Lampedusa. This would not have been long after he tried to pay his own hotel bill for staying in Rome during the conclave that elected him pope. BOLDUAN: and what address he gives as his billing address. I mean, it's all there. Thank you guys both very much. We're going to continue with so much more of this breaking news of the passing of Pope Francis.

[07:10:00]

Coming up for us, more of what we are hearing from world leaders as reaction is really beginning to come in as we speak this morning.

And also breaking overnight, we're also covering this, a second Signal chat. Sources revealing that Defense Secretary Pete Hegsetg shared detailed military plans to another -- in another Signal chat, this one, including his wife and his brother.

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[07:15:00]

BOLDUAN: You are looking at live pictures right now of mass being celebrated inside St. Patrick's Cathedral here in New York City. This is happening as we speak on the very morning. The world is learning of the passing of Pope Francis who passed away early this morning at the age of 88.

And we continue to follow this breaking news this morning, Pope Francis known and loved for his humility, his care for the poor and the world's least fortunate and most downtrodden. Before giving the traditional Easter blessing from the balcony of St. Peter's Basilica yesterday, Pope Francis met privately -- you see pictures there. He had met privately with Vice President J.D. Vance. And Vance put out a statement this morning, writing in part, my heart goes out to the millions of Christians all over the world who loved him. I was happy to see him yesterday, though, he was obviously very ill. I will always remember him for the homily he gave in the very, very early days of COVID. May God rest his soul. Just some of the reaction that we are getting in and we'll be bringing to you throughout the morning.

CNN's Ben Wedeman is standing by in Rome. Let's go to Ben now. And, Ben, you have lived in Rome, covered the pope for years. What can we expect to see in the coming hours and days?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think what we are seeing now are just the first acts in the Vatican that happened after the passing of a pope. We understand that his papal ring will be removed, if it hasn't already. His study and his apartment in the Casa Santa Marta, the Spartan Hotel at the Vatican, will be sealed and his body will be moved to the chapel in the Casa Santa Marta, where the head of the Vatican Medical Services will examine the body, ascertain the cause of death, write up a report, and his body will remain in that chapel until the funeral takes place.

Now, we understand there, there will be rosary prayers at the Vatican this evening to mark the passing, the initial ritual, so to speak, of the passing of the pope. And then, of course, there are the very complex and difficult preparations for his funeral. The Vatican has yet to announce exactly when that is going to happen but we can assume at this point that they are already sending out the invitations to 252 cardinals around the world to come to Rome, to come to the Vatican to attend the funeral.

And then, of course, there's the conclave where those cardinals will elect, will ponder first, of course, and figure out who they want to be the next pope. But that's very much several days, if not weeks, ahead of us. The focus now, of course, is the funeral and the memory of a pope who many Italians and Catholics around the world considered a man who really symbolized humility, charity, understanding for those least fortunate.

Here in Italy, the flags have been lowered to half mast. In Spain, for instance, they've declared three days of mourning. Certainly, for many, normal life is going to come to an end as they mark the passing of this very popular pope.

BOLDUAN: Ben Wedeman, thank you so much. Much more to come from Ben, you offer such great insight in all his time there. Thank you, Ben.

BERMAN: Obviously, we're going to be following the news out of Vatican City, out of Rome all morning long.

There is also other breaking news this morning. A top former aide to Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth says he does not think Hegseth will keep his job much longer. It comes as we're learning about this new secret Signal group chat. Sources say Defense Secretary Hegseth sent his wife and his brother detailed military plans.

And, again, Vatican City this morning, St. Peter's Square, live pictures. This is all following the death of Pope Francis.

CNN's live coverage continues after this.

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[07:20:00]

BERMAN: Some more news breaking overnight, growing questions about Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and his judgment as we are learning he shared detailed military plans in a second Signal chat, and this one included his wife and his brother. Former officials this morning are describing total chaos at the Pentagon, and a former press secretary says he does not see Hegseth keeping his job much longer.

Sources tell CNN Hegseth sent highly sensitive information about strikes in Yemen in this second Signal group chat, just like he did in the initial one that mistakenly included the editor of The Atlantic.

Now, the first chat is under investigation by the Defense Department's acting inspector general, unclear if this second one is part of that investigation or not yet.

Let's get right to CNN's Natasha Bertrand in Washington for the very latest on all this. Some pretty significant developments here, Natasha. NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, this is the real culmination of over five weeks of total chaos in the Office of the Secretary of Defense, according to multiple sources that we spoke to, as well as an on-the-record opinion piece that was published in Politico last night by Pete's former top spokesperson.

Now, just to go back to that second Signal chat, so we confirmed last night that this chat was on Pete Hegseth's personal phone, it was set up during the confirmation process as a way for him to strategize with some of his closest advisers and included about a dozen people, and, notably, it also included his wife, his lawyer and his brother.

[07:25:10]

Now, it's not clear if everyone on that group chat actually had a security clearance, but, surely, there was not necessarily a need to know when it came to sensitive military details and operational plans related to the strikes against the Houthis in Yemen.

And so while we are told, according to multiple officials, that, you know, it is not clear yet whether this is going to be the subject of the ongoing inspector general investigation, Sean Parnell, who is the Pentagon spokesperson at this point, said in a statement last night that, quote, no classified information was shared in any Signal chat.

But news of this second chat, it broke around the same time that, as I said earlier, John Elliott (ph), who is the former top spokesperson for Hegseth, who served in that role until last month, he wrote in a pretty scathing op-ed in Politico that, quote, it's been a month of total chaos at the Pentagon, from leaks of sensitive operational plans to mass firings, that its function is now a major distraction for the president who deserves better from his senior leadership. It's hard to see Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth remaining in his role for much longer, and Elliott's reference there to mass firings relates to just last week when Secretary Hegseth decided to fire three senior DOD officials, including two of his closest longtime advisers, Dan Caldwell and Darin Selnick. The only public comment that Hegseth has made on this so far in the wake of this news is a post on X in response to the Democrat's account saying he needs to go, he replied, quote, your agenda is illegals, trans and DEI, all of which are no longer allowed at DOD. John?

BERMAN: I have to say, Natasha Bertran, to your credit, last week when we had you on, you were noticing even in some of the routine endeavors in the Pentagon, something was off. Something has not been regular there over the last several weeks. We appreciate your reporting this morning. Keep us posted as to what you learn.

And we are Continue to follow the breaking news this morning as well. Pope Francis has passed away at the age of 88.

Stay with us. This is CNN's special live coverage.

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