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Pope Francis Dies at Age 88; Mourners Around the World Pay Tribute to Pope Francis. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired April 21, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: There have been people gathering in Rome at St. Peter's Square throughout the morning. The Vatican did announce his death early this morning, U.S. time. An official nine days of mourning are now underway.

We are getting some details now about how this will all unfold. His body, the body of Pope Francis, will be laid in a coffin at 2 p.m. Eastern today. Now, almost, well, remarkably, I should say, the Pope died just hours after the world saw him at St. Peter's for Easter Mass, delivering the traditional Easter blessing. This was a remarkable weekend for the Pope. He'd obviously been suffering from severe respiratory illnesses. He'd been in the hospital for weeks, yet he did make a round of public appearances around Easter week.

He is leaving behind a legacy, not just as a fighter throughout the last months of his life, but as the first Jesuit to be chosen, as Pope, the first Latin American Pope, very much an outsider, at least originally. He had never lived in Rome prior to his years as Pope. It is worth noting, after he was named Pope, he never returned to Argentina, his native land, again.

As a leader, he broke the mold as an outspoken advocate for the poor and migrants. He broke with traditionalists in some ways over issues including same-sex relationships and also the church sex abuse scandals.

Our Nic Robertson is in Rome. But first, let's go to CNN's Christopher Lamb, who is in St. Peter's Square this morning, where I know people have been gathering and where yesterday was a celebration of Easter, today it is a day in some ways of mourning, Chris.

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, obviously, this news has been received with great sadness here in St. Peter's amongst the people who've gathered today. Now, Pope Francis was really the people's Pope. He was a very popular figure.

He was just yesterday in St. Peter's Square on the Popemobile greeting the crowds. I was here. I could see them. It was, you know, a kind of thrilling atmosphere for them, given the Pope had these serious health problems that left him hospitalized for 38 days.

Now, the news, of course, was the news that the Pope has died was announced this morning in Rome by Cardinal Kevin Farrell, who explained that the Pope had died at 7:35 a.m. He didn't look well yesterday when he came out into St. Peter's Square. He clearly wasn't engaging with the crowd. So it was obviously difficult for Francis.

And so the news that he had died really was both a shock, but also, I think, for people who've been following it closely, not so much of a surprise given the health difficulties.

Of course, Francis, as an outsider Pope, was a figure who shook up the church's establishment. He was someone who wanted to take the message of the church out into the world. He didn't want the church to remain in its comfort zone. And Francis's priorities were care for the poor.

He called for a poor church for the poor. He was someone who spoke out very strongly for migrants. His first visit out of Rome was to Lampedusa, the island in southern Italy, where many people were risking their lives to arrive from North Africa.

And his priorities sometimes were resisted quite strongly by people inside the church. He wasn't the figure who was willing to be scripted by the Vatican bureaucracy. He was his own man, and he shook things up.

And one of the things he shook up was the makeup of the College of Cardinals, the people who will be tasked with electing the next Pope. Francis chose cardinals from different parts of the world, places that had never had cardinals before. He internationalized the body, and he chose people who share, in many ways, his pastoral priorities.

So his reform of the College of Cardinals is very significant, given that they will be arriving in Rome in the coming days to, of course, elect a new Pope. This evening at Rome time, there will be a formal service, the certification of the death of the Pope. That's the sort of spiritual certification of the fact that Francis has died.

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It will be led by Cardinal Farrell, the Camerlengo, of course, former Bishop of Dallas, and a U.S. citizen, although he was born in Ireland. He will lead that service tonight.

BOLDUAN: Christopher, thank you so much. You've been leading the coverage for us since the wee hours of the morning, will continue to, from St. Peter's Square. We sincerely appreciate it.

Let's also bring in seen as Nic Robertson now. Nic, every time I look down, we have more reaction from leaders around the world. Tell us what you're seeing.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, and they really amplify what we're hearing from Catholics, from the faithful, from Christopher and everything that he's saying.

These world leaders, President Zelenskyy, one of the latest to weigh in. He met with the Pope late last year, and he spoke about how the Pope had, you know, preached for peace and brought some hope to Ukraine and Ukrainians and had been a vocal critic of Russia's invasion.

But I think it's this sense that the Pope reached towards the poorest, wanted to help the poorest, gave hope, is what so many leaders are sort of picking on to remember today. Micheal Martin, the Irish Prime Minister, the Irish Taoiseach, said that the world has lost an exceptional leader, not a politician, but a reformer within his own faith, and somebody who worked across communities, across faith.

This is the Israeli president pointing out that his interfaith communications were important to bring humanity and understanding. The Pakistan's Prime Minister, Sharif, this morning has spoken about the value of this sort of interfaith dialogue. The British Prime Minister has spoken about how he was a Pope for the poor, that his heart was sort of what governed his mission, if you will.

Ursula von der Leyen, the European Commission president, speaking about how the Pope touched millions outside of the faith because of his humanity. The French president, you know, who last met the Pope back in late 2023, has spoken about how he was a Pope bringing joy and hope to the poorest.

It is this sense that while he wanted to modernize the Catholic faith and try and shake it loose of some of the conservative values he felt was holding it back, he really reached and touched the poorest with that sense of humanity around the world to try to uplift them.

But there will be those, and I can give an example here in the U.K., where you have many in the Anglican faith here who became the ordinariate. They, under Pope Benedict, Pope Francis' predecessor, decided to move over to the Catholic faith because, under Benedict, they felt they were going to get some of the conservative values of their Christian faith back that they were losing as Anglicans. But then, under Pope Francis' modernization here in the U.K., some of them have felt, well, this wasn't what they came across for.

So there will be those, as we think about all the people that remember everything good that the Pope has done, has reached out across communities for the poor, reformed the church. There will be some who didn't want to move in that direction, who wanted the faith to stay more back in those conservative traditions and values and roots.

BERMAN: All right, our thanks to Nic Robertson and Christopher Lamb for being here this morning, helping us understand what we're seeing and hearing. We did just get a post from President Trump. He wrote on social media, Rest in peace, Pope Francis. May God bless him and all who loved him.

With us now is Father Thomas Reese, a senior analyst at Religion News Service. And Nic Robertson was just quoting the Irish prime minister who talked about Pope Francis as a leader.

And really, he was someone who led not just with his words, Father, but with his life and by example as well. What does his loss mean to you this morning?

FATHER THOMAS REESE, SENIOR ANALYST, RELIGION NEWS SERVICE: Oh, it's very painful. We knew, of course, that he was very sick. And it's beautiful that he made it through Holy Week to Easter and then passed away right after celebrating the Lord's resurrection with his people by coming out on Easter to be with the people.

That's what he wanted to be. He was a pastoral pope who wanted to express the compassion, the love of God for his people.

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And that's what he did. And that's why people loved him.

BOLDUAN: Cardinal Timothy Dolan actually said just a little while ago in some of his first remarks as we were listening, saying that you couldn't have choreographed it any better, that the Pope made it through Easter and said, we thank him for that, the way that he lived and the way that he died. And also, Father, he said that Pope Francis taught us a lot in the way that he allowed us to watch him die.

REESE: Yes, he I mean, the Pope was a real pastoral leader. You know, the church has often been nagging, been condemnatory. And yet he he was someone who, like Jesus, welcomed sinners, wanted to welcome everybody, embraced everybody.

He talked about the Church as a field hospital for the wounded, not a country club for the beautiful people. You know, and so when he preached the gospel, he preached about how God -- first of all, how God loves us, about how God is compassionate and caring. And then secondly, about how we should be compassionate and loving towards one another.

That this is what the gospel is about, how we act, how we live the message of Jesus.

BERMAN: You know, Cardinal Dolan also noted that in Rome today is known as the Monday of Angels, the day after Easter, the Monday of Angels. So Pope Francis passing on the Monday of Angels is fitting in and of itself.

Again, we've talked all morning, Father, about what Pope Francis meant to the Church, how he changed the Church.

What about how he changed the world?

REESE: Oh, absolutely. He was a remarkable world leader, first of all, by continuing what Pope John Paul II began in terms of interreligious dialogue by reaching out to people of all faiths, Buddhists, Muslims, other Christian denominations. I mean, this is a man who went to Iraq to meet with the head Shia leader in Iraq.

Just a remarkable meeting between these two men. And then it was also visited Egypt, where he met with the head Sunni leader. This is a Pope who really wanted to bring people together to work for justice, to work for peace in the world.

So that religion not be a cause of conflict but be on the side of peace and reconciliation between people. I mean, this is a remarkable thing. And then finally, I mean, this is a Pope who was concerned about justice for the migrants, for the poor, for the marginalized, for the refugees. These people were very close to his heart.

And, of course, he is the Pope who brought global warming into the center of the church's message. The concern for protecting the earth, for protecting people who will be devastated if this global warming continues.

These were his priorities, you know, not the minutiae of, you know, various things that the church been concerned about in the past.

BOLDUAN: Father, real quick. He's also it's worth noting the first Jesuit pope. Just the significance of that for you.

REESE: Well, of course, it's very significant for me as a Jesuit. I remember prior to his election, I was asked who I thought would become the pope. And I said there were two certainties.

One, we will never see a Jesuit pope. And secondly, we will never see an American pope. I was half right.

We were all very surprised by his election. And frankly, we were all a bit concerned at the beginning because he had a reputation as a very conservative Jesuit. But we found out that he was really a very open person, a very compassionate, a very welcoming person. And we were very proud to have him as a Jesuit brother.

BOLDUAN: Father, thank you so much. Been following your writing for years. It's always good to have you on. Really appreciate your time.

BERMAN: What lovely words --

REESE: Thank you.

BERMAN: -- eulogizing, I think, from Father Reese, from Pope Francis, who did so much and changed so much. And we know his impact because he kept on telling us what he was doing all along the way.

The breaking news coverage of the death of Pope Francis and his legacy continues ahead. We will, of course, talk about what happens next now as the search for a new pope begins. There is other news that continues.

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Ahead we will, of course, talk about what happens next now as the search for a new Pope begins.

There is other news this morning, other major news developing overnight. This quote, it is hard to see Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth remaining in his role for much longer.

That's a message from a former top official at the Pentagon. A longtime associate of Pete Hegseth said that. Why?

Well, it comes as details of a new Signal chat have surfaced. A second one where the Secretary of Defense shared sensitive military information with his wife and brother.

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BOLDUAN: This morning, the world's 1.4 billion Catholics mourning the passing of Pope Francis. The Vatican announced that the Pope died. He died at 7:35 this morning, local time. He had just started returning to official duties after spending more than a month in the hospital battling double pneumonia. And just yesterday, you're seeing video of it right there, he thrilled the crowd when he appeared on the balcony of St. Peter's Basilica to give the traditional Easter blessing.

Now, Cardinal Timothy Dolan, he just said this morning in speaking out for the first time of his passing that really you couldn't have choreographed it better and him being there for Easter and then passing just after. He said -- Cardinal Dolan said, and we thank him for that, the way he lived and the way he died.

Now begins a nine day mourning period during which hundreds of thousands of people are expected to visit St. Peter's Basilica to pay their respects. CNN's Ben Wedeman is standing by for us still in Rome. And Ben, what can we expect to see in the coming hours and days?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: OK, we're now in what's known as "Sede Vacante," which is Latin for empty seat, the period between the death of a Pope and the election and the appointment of a new one.

What we're expecting today is that there's going to be a ceremony at 8 p.m. local time, 2 p.m. Eastern time in the chapel of the Casa Santa Marta, which is the Spartan guest house where Pope Francis lived. There the head of the Vatican Medical Services will inspect the body, determine the cause of death and issue a report.

Now, over the coming days, his body will lay in state in that chapel. Now, it will not be public. And then after that, there will be some time between four and seven days after his death there will be the funeral. Now, we know the official funeral. We have yet to know exactly which date it will be still. He only died a few hours ago.

But that will give time for heads of state and other VIPs to come to Rome and also, very importantly, the cardinals, 252 of them around the world, will probably by now have received invitations to come to Rome to first attend the funeral and then prepare for the conclave, where they will be isolated from the rest of the world. And among them will vote repeatedly, limit of four votes per day to determine who the next pope will be.

Now, that's 15 to 20 days after the death of the pope. That can be moved up if all the cardinals are present in Rome. But we are going to have a very busy period ahead of us here in Rome as, of course, this funeral, which no doubt will bring some of the most powerful, important people to the Vatican City.

And then the conclave, of course, there are many. There's already much speculation over who might succeed Pope Francis, keeping in mind, of course, that over the last 12 years, he has been able to see the appointment of cardinals who are not unlike him in terms of their thinking regarding wealth and oppression and compassion and whatnot. And we shall see what comes of that conclave.

But it's going to be very full calendar for probably the next month, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely, and it's all really all of that work beginning in earnest now. Ben, thank you so much. It's always good to see you. We really appreciate it.

We're going to show you again a live look at pictures at Vatican City, a beautiful day there. Our breaking news coverage of the death of Pope Francis, the first Latin American leader of the Catholic Church. Our breaking news coverage continues just ahead.

And also some other big news breaking overnight that we are also covering this morning. Another Signal Chat, a second Signal Chat, sources revealing that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth shared detailed military plans again in a separate conversation on Signal. This one, including his wife and his brother.

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BOLDUAN: Breaking overnight, a month of chaos. That is how one longtime adviser to Pete Hegseth is now describing the Pentagon under Hegseth's leadership. One reason for that is we've learned of a new Signal Chat where he shared more detailed military plans. This one, including his wife and brother.

Sources telling CNN that this second group chat, Hegseth sent highly sensitive information about strikes in Yemen, just like he did in that first chat that mistakenly included the editor of The Atlantic. That initial chat now under investigation by the Defense Department's acting inspector general, raising a whole host of questions about where things go now from here.

CNN's Natasha Bertrand tracking all of this for us. And Natasha, what more are you learning about this new Signal Chat that's come to light?

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