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Supreme Court Temporarily Pauses Deportations Under Alien Enemies Act; Pope Francis Dies on Easter Monday at Age 88; U.S. Stocks Fall as Trump Again Lashes Out at Fed Chair. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired April 21, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

TOM DUPREE, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Whether the administration gave these people who are subject to removal adequate notice and the opportunity to at least make their arguments before they're removed from the United States.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: There was criticism about what you noted, including from one justice, that the order came in the middle of the night. What does that tell you about how this decision came about?

DUPREE: Well, what it tells me is that the judiciary is trying to move with the alacrity that the administration has been moving, and it can be hard for judges to do this. I think what bothered Justice Alito was that the Supreme Court typically, in a perfect world, it would allow for long briefing, argument, a slower pace of decision making, that at least from Justice Alito's perspective, simply wasn't justified in this case. But the fact is, is that seven members of the court, a majority, including all of three of President Trump's nominees, all of them voted to hit the pause button on this to give the Supreme Court just a little bit of time to consider these arguments before making a more definitive ruling.

SANCHEZ: Does this ruling give you any indication of where this case might be headed? Not necessarily where justices are going to side, but what they'll actually rule on. In other words, will they fundamentally consider the legality of the administration invoking the Alien Enemies Act, given that that law doesn't specifically state that a criminal organization, a gang, or individuals fall under the category of a nation, an invasion of the country?

DUPREE: Right. And I think the Supreme Court is getting a lot closer to issuing that ruling, because look, they don't want to be in this position again. I think from the justices' perspective, they know that if they issue another temporary order or order that gives the administration some ambiguity or leeway to argue that it can affect these removals, that this case and this issue is going to be back up before the court probably at midnight in another few days or another few weeks.

And so I think the court knows that the time is fast approaching when it does need to definitively step in and say whether or not the administration can use this law to remove these individuals from the country. SANCHEZ: I wonder, you imagine that some of that must be the result of the justices watching this debate play out over facilitate versus effectuate, right?

DUPREE: Oh, absolutely. I mean, you know, the justices are following the newspapers, just as everyone else in America is, and trying to figure out exactly what's going on. And look, I think they realize that these are very complicated issues.

I think they realize that the district courts are doing all they can to keep up with the pace of the administration's actions on this front, and that ultimately it probably is going to fall upon the Supreme Court of the United States to definitively say what the law is, to explain what they mean by facilitate, and probably to spell out in more granular detail than they ever have before exactly what the administration must do, what the administration must prove in order to remove these people under the Alien Enemies Act, because there just ain't a lot of law in this area, and it's got to come from the Supreme Court.

SANCHEZ: One of many fascinating cases and decisions that we are set to see over the next few months. Tom Dupree always great to have you on. Thanks for joining us.

DUPREE: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Now to some of the other headlines that we're watching this hour. The FAA is investigating after this, an engine fire forced 282 passengers -- a full flight -- on a Delta Airlines plane to evacuate using emergency slides. You see that here.

Flight 1213 was headed from Orlando to Atlanta when flames were seen in the right engine tailpipe. The Airbus A330 was carrying a full flight, no injuries reported. Delta working to get passengers to their final destination still.

Plus, the Trump administration making plans to remove artificial dyes from food. A media advisory sent by the Health and Human Services Department today says the plan is to eliminate some petroleum-based synthetic dyes that are used to color snacks and beverages in brighter hues and draw consumers in. The advisory said that HHS Secretary Robert Kennedy Jr. will share some more details on that tomorrow.

And it'll be a climbing season, unlike any other on Mount Everest, because of this. Drones will now be able to help Sherpas carry equipment before the season starts and then pick up trash once it gets started. The company Airlift Technology has spent a month learning the terrain challenged by the altitude, the wind speed and visibility there on Everest. Ladders, ropes and oxygen cylinders that drones can now position on the mountain could likely save lives.

[15:35:12]

And you're looking at some live images out of St. Peter's Square at the Vatican where parishioners are gathering to honor the life and legacy of Pope Francis.

It's a very different scene from 2020 when the Pope prayed during the height of coronavirus to an empty square. We'll have much more of our coverage just ahead.

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[15:40:00]

KEILAR: Throughout the papacy of Pope Francis, he repeated calls for Catholics to welcome and help migrants and refugees.

SANCHEZ: And the pontiff was publicly critical of President Trump's immigration policies. Just weeks after Trump took office for his second term, Pope Francis sent a letter to bishops in the United States saying, quote, I have followed closely the major crisis that is taking place in the United States with the initiation of a program of mass deportations. The rightly formed conscience cannot fail to make a critical judgment and express its disagreement with any measure that tacitly or explicitly identifies the illegal status of some migrants with criminality.

KEILAR: CNN's Christopher Lamb looks at why the pope's advocacy for migrants was so important to him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Throughout his pontificate, Pope Francis was an outspoken advocate for migrants. His first papal trip outside of Rome was to the southern Italian island of Lampedusa, where thousands of refugees arrive in makeshift rafts. Many don't make the perilous journey.

Francis' visit to Lampedusa turned the world's attention to their plight.

POPE FRANCIS, LEADER OF CATHOLIC CHURCH (through translator): We have fallen into globalized indifference. We have become used to the suffering of others. It doesn't affect me. It doesn't concern me. It's none of my business.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Papa, I love you!

LAMB (voice-over): Three years later, he went a step further. After visiting another arrival port for migrants, the Greek island of Lesbos, he returned with 12 refugees on his papal plane. It was an unprecedented humanitarian gesture.

For Francis, the plight of refugees was not about numbers, but names, faces and individual stories. It was also personal. The pope's grandparents and father left Italy for Argentina, narrowly escaping a deadly voyage when they changed their tickets. The boat they were originally due to cross in later sank.

He advocated for every refugee, regardless of their religion. This included the Rohingya Muslims driven out of Myanmar in what many observers denounced as a genocide and who Francis met in Bangladesh.

But Francis didn't simply talk about migrants. He tried to mobilize all Catholics to welcome refugees. He made an appeal to Catholic communities to open their doors to migrants. Cardinal Michael Czerny was the pope's point man on migrants in the Vatican, who sought to implement the pope's vision.

MICHAEL CZERNY, CARDINAL: What we try to do is to help the Church locally, wherever it is, to accompany the migrants and refugees, to welcome them, to protect them, to promote them and to integrate them.

LAMB (voice-over): The Canadian cardinal said Francis saw the migrants' crisis as a litmus test for our humanity, the one that the developed world was largely failing.

But Francis' interventions placed him on collision calls with populist politicians on the right, including President Donald Trump.

POPE FRANCIS (through translator): A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not of building bridges, is not Christian.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To the effect that maybe Donald Trump isn't Christian.

LAMB (voice-over): Predictably, Trump hit back.

TRUMP: He's questioning my faith. I was very surprised to see it, but I am a Christian.

LAMB (voice-over): Francis remained resolute. When anti-migrant political sentiment rose in Italy, he told politicians not to close ports to migrants. And ahead of elections in Italy, where the extreme right won power, he told Italians that migrants must be welcomed.

He continued to speak out about the plight of migrants, urging action. Francis' approach tried to prick the consciences of world leaders and inspire everyone, Catholic or not, to play their part in welcoming refugees.

He even established a permanent memorial for his work, with a statue for migrants in St. Peter's Square. Even though he sometimes felt like a voice crying in the wilderness, Francis worked tirelessly to put into practice the words in the Bible: I was a stranger, and you welcomed me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Our thanks to CNN's Christopher Lamb for that report.

CNN's Ben Wedeman is now joining us live from St Peter's Square. Ben, tell us what the mood is like there.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The mood here is somber. The people here, many of them, were in St. Peter's Square yesterday when the Pope appeared on the balcony, said a few words, and then drove around St. Peter's Square. And, of course, now, today, they find out this morning, Rome time, that he had died.

[15:45:02]

So it's a bit of a shock, but I think people are beginning to absorb even more the legacy that he leaves behind. For instance, the Vatican has released the Last Testament of Pope Francis. And it really is a testimony to the genuine simplicity of his soul and his really a call to the world to discard some of the perhaps material possessions that have become something of an obsession to people.

In his testament, he says he wants to be buried at the church of Santa Maria Maggiore, which is a church he went to every time before he went on one of his more than 40 travels around the globe. And he always went there before going back to his apartment at Vatican City. He gave thanks at the church whenever he returned. And now he wants to be buried there.

And he said that he wants his tomb to be in the earth, simple, without particular decoration, and with only the inscription Franciscus. Now, when you compare that with those in today's world who are obsessed with gold and the dressings, the opulence of power, it certainly is a stark contrast.

But Pope Francis, throughout the 12 years of his papacy, was somebody who did stress the contrast between genuine human beliefs and morals and the material world that does seem to have the upper hand at the moment.

KEILAR: Ben Wedeman, thank you for that report live for us from St. Peter's Square. And we will be right back.

[15:50:00]

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KEILAR: We continue to follow what has been a brutal day on Wall Street amid President Trump's continued attacks on Fed Chair Jerome Powell. The markets are just minutes away from closing. The Dow down more than 1,000 points at this point in time.

SANCHEZ: CNN business and politics correspondent Vanessa Yurkevich joins us now. She's been tracking the market all day. Vanessa, investors are reacting in part to President Trump lashing out at Powell, calling him a major loser, demanding that he lower interest rates. Some of this also has to do with China, right?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely. There's sort of two storylines playing out right now, and that is why you're seeing the Dow down more than 1,000 points right now, the S&P down 137 points, and you have the Nasdaq down almost 3 percent. Essentially, investors have been waiting for deals to come through with this trade war.

Key negotiations between Japan and the United States haven't really provided any deals, and China is now warning its key trading partners not to get behind the U.S. and isolate China any further in this trade war.

So that was happening overnight and into this morning, and then you had the president on Truth Social posting that he wants the Federal Reserve to lower interest rates and name-calling the chair of the Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell. That rattled investors once again this morning, as they see the Federal Reserve, as it should be, as an independent body, able to make decisions on its own without the overreach of the president. And investors this morning really shaken by the president's words, saying that he potentially has the power to terminate the Fed chair in his position. So investors really seeing these two storylines playing out for a while longer.

KEILAR: And looking at that possibility of him removing the Fed chair, he's not supposed to be able to do it except for cause. But what's the outlook here?

YURKEVICH: Yes, well, there was a Supreme Court case in 1935, which found that the president, and it reads a little bit, that it is plain under the Constitution that illimitable power of removal is not possessed by the president, except if there is cause, and those causes are listed as inefficiency, neglect of duty and malfeasance in office. And so that is why you have some debate going on right now about whether or not the president actually has the power to remove the chair of the Federal Reserve. Kevin Hassett, the head of the White House Economic Council, said this is something that the president is studying because he believes that he has the power.

But if you look at the Supreme Court case, very clear that the president just does not have this power to do it at any -- whenever he wants.

SANCHEZ: Yes, we've seen this White House interpret the law in very unprecedented ways. We'll see what the approach is here. Vanessa Yurkevich, thank you so much.

Don't go anywhere because "THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunt starts after a short break. Thanks for joining us today.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Hi everyone, I'm Kasie Hunt. Thanks so much for being with us here in THE ARENA.

You're looking at live pictures from St. Peter's Square in Rome. Where mourners have been gathering throughout the day to honor Pope Francis. We're getting new reaction to the breaking news of his passing at the age of 88. And what's next for the Vatican and the Catholic Church.

But right now, we do want to start with another major breaking story. U.S. markets plunging today. The Dow Jones Industrial down nearly a thousand points just ahead of the closing bell.

Let's get to CNN's Jeff Zeleny at the White House as we listen for that bell. Should be just about to ring here shortly.

This nosedive has been prompted at least in part by President Trump's ongoing criticism of the Chairman of the Federal Reserve. What unfolded there today?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Kasie, you can almost set your watch to it. Every time the President lashes out at the Chairman of the Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell and talks about either firing him or calls him a name, the markets have responded very negatively.

And that's what we saw all day long today. The President putting out a message about 10 minutes after the markets open. And let's take a look at that. I'm told that this is one of the things that drove the sell- off throughout the day. The President says this.

There can be a slowing of the economy unless Mr. Too late -- he's talking to Jerome Powell -- a major loser lowers interest rates.

Now, Europe has already lowered seven times. Powell has been period when he lowered it to help sleepy Joe Biden. Later Kamala to get elected ...

END