Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Pope Francis' Funeral to Be Held Saturday in St. Peter's Square; Fired Pentagon Adviser Denies Leaking Information; NIH to Ban Grants to Universities With DEI Programs, Israel Boycotts. Aired 7- 7:30a ET

Aired April 22, 2025 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news out of the Vatican, just released details on Pope Francis' funeral. Right now, he is lying in state as world leaders make plans to pay their respect and church leaders prepare to choose his successor.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning. The White House is denying reports. It is looking to replace Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, this after a second Signal group chat was discovered, sharing detailed war plans with his wife and brother. Now, at least one Republican is turning against him.

And then just a brutal headline of The Wall Street Journal, this morning Dow headed for the worst April since the great depression, and the stock markets might only be the least of the problem.

Sara Sidner is out today. I'm John Berman with Kate Bolduan. This is CNN News Central.

BOLDUAN: And new details this morning about funeral services for Pope Francis. Overnight, the Vatican announced that it will be held outside in St. Peter's Square on Saturday morning. The pontiff's body, well, the body's lying in state right now, currently lying in an open coffin in Vatican City. You can see it right there in a chapel of the papal residence.

Tomorrow, he will be transferred to St. Peter's Basilica after a short service and procession, and he will then be buried in a church, another church in Rome, becoming the first pope in more than 100 years laid to rest outside the Vatican.

It all comes as cardinals from around the world are gathering to select Francis' successor very soon. The secret voting process, it typically takes two to three weeks. This time, the field of possible candidates, though, it really appears to be wide open in no small part because of reforms that Pope Francis himself brought about.

Let's get to CNN's Ben Wedeman. He's in St. Peters Square again for us this morning. Ben, what are you hearing there in the square? What are you hearing about the funeral plans that have just been announced? BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's going to be 10:00 the morning, the funeral for Pope Francis on Saturday outside in the piazza of St. Peter's. And at the moment, as you said, his body is currently lying in state in the chapel of the Casa Santa Marta, which is the guest house of the Vatican, which was Pope Francis's residence. He lived on the second floor in a two-room suite there.

Now, at 9:00 A.M. on Wednesday morning, there will be a brief ceremony in that chapel, and then there will be a procession through St. Peter's Square with that coffin. And it will be placed inside the basilica where there will be a brief ceremony attended by Vatican officials and cardinals. After that, the basilica will be open to the public. And what we've seen in the past, for instance, when Pope John Paul II passed away back in 2005, we expect thousands and thousands of people to line up outside to go pass by that coffin, that open coffin.

As far as the atmosphere here, certainly we continue to see hundreds of people coming all the time to pay their respects. Many people, for instance, we spoke to a group of young French pilgrims who were on their way here hoping to see Pope Francis when they heard yesterday morning while they were on the bus that he had passed away. And one of them told us, many of them broke into tears. So, we are expecting thousands and thousands of people to be coming here over the coming days.

As far as the conclave goes, it's supposed to take place sometime between 15 and 20 days after the death of the pope. Now, back in 2013, when Pope Benedict the 16th resigned and they had the subsequent conclave, it began on the 12th of March, ended on the 13th. There were only five votes, the final one, of course, resulting in the election of Jorge Bergoglio, who, of course, became Pope Francis.

[07:05:00]

So, we're hoping that the conclave doesn't last too long. For instance, I believe about 800 years ago, there was a conclave that lasted for months, well over a year, and apparently the local people in the city, where it took place, Viterbo, eventually decided to stop providing food to the cardinals because they wanted them to pick a pope as quickly as possible. Hopefully, the coming conclave won't last that long. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Yes. Let's hope it does not come to that, Ben. I mean, that's for sure. It's good to see you. Thank you so much, as always. I love his facts. John?

BERMAN: All right. New this morning, one of the Pentagon advisers fired amid a leak investigation is now speaking out and it comes as the fallout grows of reports that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth texted his way into another scandal.

Dan Caldwell, one of the three top officials ousted last week, denies leaking any information and he said -- instead, he says, he was fired for his views, including his opposition to attacking Iran. This is what he told Tucker Carlson. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, PODCAST HOST: Did you leak classified information against the wishes of your superiors to media outlets?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely not.

CARLSON: Did you photograph classified material and then text pictures of that material to an NBC News reporter?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The White House is denying an NPR report that it is looking to replace Hegseth, this after sources say he shared detailed military plans to attack the Houthis in Yemen in a second Signal chat. This one included his wife and brother.

And now, a top Republican in the House Armed Services Committee appears to be the first sitting Republican lawmaker to back Hegseth's removal. The Nebraska Congressman Don Bacon tells Politico, quote, Hegseth is acting like he's above the law, and that shows an amateur person.

Let's get right to CNN's Kevin Liptak at the White House this morning for the latest on this. What are you hearing now, Kevin?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes. It seems clear that for now, President Trump is standing by Pete Hegseth. He said that in public. He's also said that in private, including in a phone call between the president and the defense secretary on Sunday evening, shortly after these reports broke. The president has instructed his team to go out and defend Pete Hegseth, and you saw that playing out yesterday. The president, the press secretary, all closing ranks accusing these latest reports of being fake news, calling out what they called hoaxsters and denying chaos in the Pentagon, that even some Hegseth loyalists say is now engulfing the building.

Listen to more of what President Trump said yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: There's no dysfunction. Ask the Houthis how much dysfunction there. There's none. Pete's doing a great job. Everybody's happy with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: Now, in all of this pushback, what you don't hear is any denial of the facts of the matter, which is that Hegseth put sensitive military information into a Signal chat. You also, when you hear them talking about these disgruntled former employees, never mentioning that these employees were Hegseth's own handpicked inner circle. So, I think the big question here is why President Trump is sticking with Hegseth, and our reporting indicates a number of factors are at play here. One, the president doesn't want to undertake a firing that he thinks would essentially give satisfaction to his enemies, the enemies in the news media, as he puts it. I think you also hear the president wanting to avoid some of the rapid pace firing that engulfed his first term in office. Two, you know, the president expended an enormous amount of political capital getting Hegseth confirmed. I don't think there is much appetite inside this building for another prolonged confirmation process. And, three, the president is just generally satisfied with how Hegseth is doing the job. He likes how he sounds, he likes how he looks.

And so I think for now, you won't see the president taking any steps to remove him from his position. And I say for now, and I think that's an operable term. For all the support that you hear from the president, there are officials in this administration, including in this building behind me, who are wondering and waiting if there's another shoe to drop. But I think it's safe to say that at least in the near term, Hegseth's job is safe for now.

BERMAN: And, again, the important thing here, no denials that he used a personal device to share a military secrets with his wife and brother.

Kevin Liptak at the White House this morning, thank you very much. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Still ahead for us this hour, NIH now says it will pull medical research funding from universities with DE and I programs as Harvard is filing a new lawsuit against the Trump administration over their own funding fight.

And opening statements are set to begin this morning in the second murder trial of Karen Read, the woman accused of killing her police officer boyfriend.

And a semi-truck bursting into flames, shutting down big parts of an Indiana Highway, wow.

[07:10:05]

BERMAN: New this morning, the National Institutes of Health is moving to pull medical research funding from universities it says have diversity and inclusion programs or boycott Israeli companies. The move is similar to the funding freezes the White House has placed on Harvard and Columbia over DEI programs and those schools' responses to anti-Semitism on campus, at least that's what the administration says it's about.

Let's get to CNN Medical Correspondent Meg Tirrell for the latest on this. What are you hearing about these moves?

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John. I mean, this is a continuation of the pressure we've been seeing from the Trump administration on universities really around these themes. As you said, they really echo through the Harvard lawsuit we saw yesterday as well. But this would apply to any domestic grant recipient of NIH funding starting yesterday for new, renewed, continual or supplemental awards issued starting Monday of this week.

Now, they say that any grant recipient may not operate DEI programs, and they may not engage in what they call a, quote, discriminatory, prohibited boycott of doing business with Israeli companies. So, this really applies across the board, John, to any grant recipients.

And we know, of course, the National Institutes of Health is the largest public funder of biomedical research in the world. A couple years ago, it had a budget of $48 billion. Now, there are, of course, arguments over whether to cut that substantially. That's been put forward by the Trump administration. But 83 percent of that $48 billion went to external research, supporting research at more than 2,500 universities, medical schools and research institutes really across the entire country.

So, this could be quite broad, John, but what I'm hearing from folks is that it also is a little bit vague. We already know that universities have taken steps to change their DEI programs based on orders and things put out by the Trump administration already. So, it's really unclear exactly to whom this would apply and how it will be applied, and perhaps some of that vagueness here in this new guidance from the NIH is kind of the point, which allows a lot of discretion in enforcement. But we're going to have to see how universities respond to this, as, of course, they're fighting multiple battles on other fronts, as we've seen.

BERMAN: Yes, we'll see. And, again, that vagueness may be part of the plan.

Meg Terrell, thank you very much for that reporting. Kate.

BOLDUAN: And there's also a new escalation to bring to you in the fight between the Trump administration and Harvard University, a funding fight that now becomes a legal one. The university is suing the administration over its move to freeze that $2.2 billion in federal funding that was going to Harvard.

This new twist comes as credit ratings from S&P global ratings warns that the White House's cracked down on higher education could create real financial problems for some of these institutions. The firm's saying the institutions that spend highly on research and award numerous doctorate degrees are, quote, disproportionately affected by the funding changes and will need to consider their budget options, including layoffs, to offset these cuts. John?

BERMAN: All right. This morning, opening statement set to begin in the new trial of Karen Read, the woman accused of killing her police officer boyfriend.

And, quote, do you want to yell or do you want to hear? A Republican town hall erupts in chaos over Elon Musk and Trump administration cuts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:20:00]

BOLDUAN: So, this morning, opening statements are set to begin in Karen Read's retrial. Now, Read is accused of murdering her boyfriend, a police officer, accused of hitting him with her car in January of 2022 and leaving him to die. Her first trial ended with a hung jury last summer. Read's pleaded not guilty to all charges.

CNN's Jean Casarez is here. And as you've explained, Jean, this is setting up to be a really interesting retrial considering all that is at stake and alleged. What is expected today, though?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, today are opening statements. So, this is the beginning of the trial, and it's going to be bigger than the first trial. That's what everyone is saying. And it's also going to be so different. First of all, there's a brand new lead prosecutor. His name is Hank Brennan. He was appointed. He's a special prosecutor just for this trial.

He defended Whitey Bulger. He was Whitey Bulger's lead attorney. Now, he is representing the commonwealth. He is all business.

On the defense side, they have Robert Alessi, a brand new attorney out of New York, that seems to be focused on expert testimony that juror from the first trial has joined the team.

You know, on the defense side, they've got something going for them in that the lead investigator who had written those horrible text messages about Karen Read as he is the lead investigator. He's gone through the ranks now and he's been fired from Massachusetts from presiding as a law enforcement officer, so the defense has that. But on the prosecution side, Hank Brennan asked for and can bring in audio visual clips from her interviews.

You know, Karen Read has really given more interviews than I think I've ever seen a defendant give on the local level, a national level, print level, documentary level.

BOLDUAN: Yes, exactly. A documentary was done.

CASAREZ: That's right. And so if there's anything that's against her interest, they can bring it in. They gave the defense 44 clips that they might be using, but they said they're going to pare that down, but they are going to use a 15-second clip in their opening.

Defense is going to use some crime scene photos of John O'Keefe's arm and injuries on that. But besides that, the prosecution took a mold of Chloe the dog's mouth to show the teeth. They relax the dog so they could do that, but they want to show the wounds on the arm do not match what the defense is saying, that once that fight ensued in that house and that John O'Keefe was down on the ground, that Chloe actually was the one that created those marks. So, many, many differences, more data from the car this time, more black box data, which is fascinating, and an accident reconstructionist on both sides. A large part, this is going to be devils in the details. BOLDUAN: Well, and it's all going to start today. They're laying out exactly what they're about to show and it's going to be really interesting.

[07:25:03]

CASAREZ: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much, Jean.

Coming up still for us, a Republican Congressman shouting back when he's getting shouted down at his town hall back home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. BYRON DONALDS (R-FL): (INAUDIBLE) have been authorized by the president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Tell you more details about what happened there.

And market futures, they are pointing higher so far this morning after a rough day yesterday. The headlines are brutal, the Dow now on track for its worst April since the great depression.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:30:00]

BERMAN: All right. Overnight Florida Congressman and gubernatorial candidate Byron Donalds came face-to-face with angry constituents at a town hall where voters demanded answers.