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Parents Push for Stricter Rules as Teens Battle Online Pressures; Hegseth Under Scrutiny After Second Signal Group Chat Revealed; GOP Rep. Donalds Showered with Boos Over Response to DOGE Cuts; Pope Francis' Funeral to be Held Saturday in St. Peter's Square. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired April 22, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: So there's a bit of a disconnect between what they're saying about their peers and what they're saying about themselves. But nonetheless, 44 percent of teens say they plan to cut back or they have cut back on both their social media and their smartphone use.

Here's what one teen boy said, who was quoted in this survey. He said: The overuse of social media in our society seems to be the main cause of depression among those in my age group. People seem to let themselves be affected by the opinions of people they don't know and it wreaks havoc upon people's state of mind.

Now, the survey also showed that teen girls are slightly more likely than teen boys to say that social media impacts things like their confidence and their sleep.

And it's not all bad. Some teens also said that social media gave them an outlet for creativity and to connect with their friends. But you have to imagine that all of this is going to sort of add fuel to the fire to the regulatory efforts to really rein in teens' social media use, the amount of time that they're spending there.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, but hearing the acknowledgement that they themselves agree that it's a problem, they think it's impacting them, I think is a really important part of this conversation.

DUFFY: And that they're cutting back even as regulators sort of dropped the ball in terms of passing rules around this.

BOLDUAN: Something we're very thankful you continue to cover. Thank you so much, Clare. Really appreciate it.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Right, this morning, the White House is denying it is looking to replace Pete Hegseth as defense secretary. We're standing by to hear from Hegseth any minute and whether he denies sharing sensitive strike plans from his personal phone with his wife and brother, he really hasn't denied it yet.

And we have breaking new details on funeral plans for Pope Francis and some of the first new video from inside the Vatican.

The White House is waking up to a stark reality and brutal headline. The Dow on track for its worst April since the Great Depression.

Sara is out today. I'm John Berman with Kate Bolduan. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

This morning, a Pentagon insider's account of what he calls the chaos inside the department. After the revelation that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth shared detailed military plans in a second Signal chat, one of the three top advisers fired last week amid a leak investigation says he never spilled any sensitive information. And he told Tucker Carlson he's not even sure what he is under suspicion for.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON: Do you know what you've been accused of?

DAN CALDWELL, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER FOR DEFENSE SECRETARY PETE HEGSETH: No, I don't. We have not been told as of this recording. One, is there what we were being investigated for?

Two, is there still an investigation? And three, was there even a real investigation? Because there's a lot of evidence that there there is not a real investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Now, the White House is denying an NPR report that it is looking to replace Hegseth and President Trump is publicly standing by him, telling reporters the Pentagon chief is doing, quote, a great job.

But the cracks in Hegseth's support are starting to show. Prominent Republican Congressman Don Bacon in the swing district in Nebraska appears to be the first sitting Republican lawmaker to at least entertain the notion of Hegseth's removal.

He told Politico Hegseth is, quote, acting like he's above the law and that shows an amateur person.

Mark Preston, CNN's senior political analyst, joins us now from Washington. Don Bacon may be a viewer of suggesting that the defense secretary is not a serious person, Mark.

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I'll tell you what, as you talk about maybe the dam cracking right now, we could be seeing it right now. Don Bacon coming out, the first person really to come out and be critical of Pete Hegseth. But again, it's only 8:03 in the morning on Monday. He's safe right now. But in the world of Donald Trump, you could be gone in a moment.

A couple of things we need to look at right now, John. We need to look at Republican senators. Will they start to come out and express dissatisfaction? That will be more powerful than a House member. Also, will we see more prominent Republican voices come out and say enough is enough? This is derailing the president's agenda. And really, the third thing is, will another shoe drop?

And there are folks within the White House that believe that another shoe will drop. When you see smoke, there is certainly fire. So we're waiting for all those things to happen right now.

But I will say this, John, he is very lucky that Congress is not in session this week because the questions he would be facing from reporters right now and the senators facing questions from reporters would be nonstop. And I think we would be in a different situation than we are at this moment.

BERMAN: Just want to give our viewers an update on something you just reported. Sources are telling me it is now Tuesday, just so people are aware of that. It has moved to Tuesday. We can now report. But to your point.

PRESTON: Happy Easter Monday.

[08:05:00]

BERMAN: It is early and Hegseth will be speaking shortly, so we will hear more and that could mean even more follow-up. Then there's the issue, Mark, of if not Hegseth, who would run the Pentagon?

Then there's the issue, Mark, of if not Hegseth, who would run the Pentagon? During his whole confirmation battle, the name of Governor Ron DeSantis from Florida was floated. Not so sure that would happen now.

PRESTON: No, I don't think that would happen now either. You know, as much as Ron DeSantis and Donald Trump have made up publicly, there is a little bit of friction there between both camps.

Two people to look at, though. Tom Cotton, a senator from Arkansas right there, as well as Chris Miller. He is the former Secretary of Defense who Donald Trump had him in that position. Let me just tell you why Cotton might take it, because he might have to take it.

He might be forced into doing it because he believes that's his best path towards the presidency. On the other hand, he is number three in the Senate Republican Conference. He's in a very good position. He may think that his better shot at running for president is from the U.S. Senate.

Now, the other side is Chris Miller, is somebody who was very loyal to President Trump and then, during the investigation of January 6th, was critical of Donald Trump. He has since come out and then said that he takes back his criticism of Donald Trump.

And Donald Trump has actually mentioned Miller as a possible defense secretary. He did that about 17 months ago. So Miller might be at the top of the list.

BERMAN: Maybe watching this very closely very soon. We'll see. Mark Preston, great to see you this morning. Thank you very much -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Who else is it going to be? I mean, come on, buddy. He's like, is there another?

BERMAN: I didn't know. I was standing by to see if I had some other big news to report, because you never know.

BOLDUAN: Door number three.

BERMAN: I might have something more I'm going to tell you in a little bit.

BOLDUAN: We'll call her Shmate Shmoldwin.

OK. Joining us right now, CNN political commentators Karen Finney and Scott Jennings.

Would you guys like to commentate on our ability to run a show today? Let's start there. But let's actually move to this.

OK, Scott, Don Bacon, he is a serious person. And other things that he told Politico are this. If it is true that he had another Signal chat with his family about missions against the Houthis, it's totally unacceptable.

And he also told Axios, if a Democrat did this, we'd be demanding a scalp. I don't like hypocrisy. We should be Americans first when it comes to security.

At what point do you think that the White House will would start listening to Don Bacon?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listening to Don Bacon on this? Probably not terribly soon. I mean, no offense to Mr. Bacon. I like him a lot. I'm glad he's in the Congress.

Look, I talked to some people over at the White House yesterday. My sense is they think this is a tempest in a teapot. This new Signal chat came at the same time as the other one. My sense is they think they've corrected this.

And look, it's just not in their DNA to give in on things like this. And they spent an enormous amount of political capital to get him confirmed in the first place. We haven't even been in office for 100 days yet. So I just think it's not really in the Trump DNA to give in to what they would see as Democrat media created non-controversy.

BOLDUAN: Not media created, though. I mean, we can say that definitively not media created. If one wasn't talking --

JENNINGS: It's number two.

BOLDUAN: -- that's how they see it. Thank you for that correction.

OK. Karen, how do you see it? KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I agree with Mr. Bacon that if it was a Democrat, they would be calling for a scalp. And how many times did you and I talk about Hillary's e-mails, Kate? I mean, my goodness.

Look, what I think is -- here's the problem that I think the White House is facing. It's not just the Signal-gate. It's also these reports that he takes his wife into meetings where she really has no business being, particularly if classified information is being discussed. These seem to be high-level conversations.

Then this sort of rumblings that the DOD is in something of disarray. If that's true, those rumors will continue to trickle out. And that's where it becomes a problem.

Last week, I mean, look, Democrats are going to keep pressing the issue. Probably some Republicans will as well.

But most importantly, do our service members have faith that this is the person who will keep them safe and who can help accomplish the mission? That's where really the rubber meets the road is if the people in the Department of Defense are men and women in uniform, lose confidence in him because rumors like this continue. That's where I think it becomes more of a problem for the White House.

BOLDUAN: And also just the fact that being averse to a potentially prolonged confirmation process again, which I'd argue Tom Cotton would not have a long one. Chris Miller, probably not either.

Is that being averse to it? Is that reason enough to keep someone in a job if they determine he shouldn't be there?

JENNINGS: Well, it's a reason, but there's other reasons. And just to counter Karen's points, you know, Donald Trump, the president, the commander in chief may believe that Pete Hegseth, who he likes very much, is doing a good job.

[08:10:00]

After all, the first major military operation of his presidency, our attacks on the Houthi rebels seems to be going quite well, being executed with precision.

And so I just think that they, when they get into these moments where you have Democrats going crazy against one of his people that he likes very much, their instinct is to dig in and fight the opposition party on these things. And I just don't get the sense from anybody in the White House that they think Pete Hegseth is doing a bad job.

I mean, they believe morale among the soldiers is up since Trump became president. They believe recruitment is up, that people are wanting to come back into the military. So they're looking at other metrics too, by which you would judge, is this person doing a good job? And I think they believe that he is.

BOLDUAN: Karen let's also talk about this. Republicans -- some Republicans are holding town halls to their credit still, since Republican leaders have told them not to. Byron Donald's in Florida, he is one of them. He held a town hall last night, meeting with voters, and it got messy, like we've seen others. Interruptions and people being removed. Here's just a, I guess I'll call it a flavor of it for people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you approve of Elon and DOGE invading our social security files?

(CHEERING)

REP. BYRON DONALDS (R-FL): Elon and DOGE have been authorized by the president of the United States.

(BOOING)

DONALDS: Don't boo. No, no, no, no, no. Don't boo. Don't boo. Do you want to yell or do you want to hear?

Don't get (INAUDIBLE) about why I serve. (INAUDIBLE).

Don't reach out if you want to have a shouting match with me. Because I'm a shouting match of the past.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: There's a lot going on there, Karen. This does not -- I would argue that this does not likely change Byron Donald's from his course, change his views probably much. Do you think this -- the fact that this is happening at many Republican town halls now, do you think it is becoming, I don't know, white noise?

FINNEY: Not at all. I think what it's -- I mean, I don't think it's going to change Byron Donald's, but certainly if you were a member of the House, a Republican in a tough district, looking at a tough race next year, it might change that person.

I mean, look, part of what we're seeing, we saw morning consult polls last week that showed favorability of Democrats, which Scott and I have talked about, is actually up over favorability of Republicans in Congress.

Democrats are starting to pull away a little bit on this -- I'll send you the poll, Scott. Also showed that Democrats are starting to be more trusted on the economy.

It does not help when you have the president tanking the economy by calling the head of the Fed a loser and people seeing headlines that this is the worst April since the Great Depression.

My point being, when you have someone like Byron Donald's going in and basically yelling at his constituents, that's not a good sign. And we know that that's part of why Republicans, we're told, don't do town halls. I think we're showing growing frustration at the economy, at the fact that costs are still very high. Now maybe there's this other -- this side issues about Hegseth. And you also heard some people asking in hearings -- I'm sorry, in these town halls, asking more questions about the budget and what's going to happen.

So there's a lot of anxiety out there that people are asking about.

BOLDUAN: There's a lot of anxiety across the board. Would you be holding town halls? Do you recommend it?

JENNINGS: I mean, I guess it depends on how you want your -- how you want to spend your nights, getting yelled at by unhinged boomer Democrats. I mean, do you see like these people. And Karen said some things that were correct about people having some concern about the economy. Absolutely true.

That's usually the top concern for voters. But did you hear the voter that we played? Elon Musk is personally invading my social security file.

And that's not the mark of someone who's concerned about the economy. That's the mark of someone who's an unhinged boomer Democrat partisan activist who showed up to yell at a Republican. They didn't vote for Donald Trump before.

They're not going to vote for him.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: I don't know that. We don't know if they're a Democrat. But two, if they're a voter in the district, no matter what you think of their opinion of it, they still could be concerned about it.

JENNINGS: That person said that Elon Musk is personally invading his Social Security file. I mean, think about the level of conspiracy theory partisanship that you'd have to engage in to believe that the world's richest man is digging into you Social Security.

BOLDUAN: I can definitely point you to some conspiracy theories that took them down some holes for many --

JENNINGS: You ask me, I'm telling you, Democrats love to do nothing more than show up and yell at Republicans. They used to do it mostly online. Byron Donalds goes and takes the punishment in person. Good for him, I guess.

But I also think you have to understand these are not representative of overall districts.

[08:15:00]

BOLDUAN: That is true. I will say that is true. It is definitely representative of a temperature of what's happening in --

JENNINGS: Democrats are mad, I agree. BOLDUAN: -- out in the country.

Good to see you guys. Now, who should I toss to? I'm not entirely sure.

JENNINGS: Karen.

BOLDUAN: Maybe I should toss to -- Oh, John! It's so good to see you this morning.

BERMAN: I saw how you are a TV pro, Kate Bolduan.

All right, just more new details about the funeral plans for Pope Francis. As cardinals from all over the world gather in Rome to elect his successor. They begin to gather there.

A new lawsuit from Harvard setting up a clash with the Trump administration. America's oldest college now suing the government over freedom in funding.

And we are standing by for the opening bell on Wall Street this morning as the Dow heads for its worst April since the Great Depression.

[08:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: This morning we're learning new details about the funeral service for Pope Francis. The Vatican announced it will be held outside in St. Peter's Square on Saturday morning. The pontiff's body is now lying in an open coffin in the chapel of the papal residence.

It will be transferred to St. Peter's Basilica after a short service and procession tomorrow.

With us now is Father Dave Dwyer. He is the executive director of Busted Halo Ministries and the host of the Busted Halo show on Sirius XM. Father, always great to see you.

FATHER DAVE DWYER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, BUSTED HALO MINISTRIES: Thanks for having me in. Good morning.

BERMAN: There are so many people now arriving in Rome, in Vatican City. So many cardinals coming there for the service. What do you think they are thinking about as they arrive to observe this solemn moment?

DWYER: Well, I would say it would be very similar to the death of any of our loved ones. Meaning that the immediate process that we go through emotionally, spiritually is thinking of the man we believe is the vicar of Christ on earth and what he gave to us, the gift he gave to the church.

One way in which I could sum it up would be he really challenged us to care more. Care more about one another, care about the earth, care about people that other people don't care about. I think that's a lot of what's going through people's minds and hearts.

And soon it will start to go to, well, procedurally, now what's next? And who's going to be the next guy that comes to?

BERMAN: You know, and we are learning some details about how he planned to be remembered, how he wants to be buried inside the Basilica of St. Mary Major. In the ground. Important to him that it was in the ground, not erased from with just one word, Franciscus.

DWYER: Yes, which is unusual. A couple of things are unusual. Most recent popes have been buried at St. Peter's Basilica. He had a great devotion not just to the Basilica of St. Mary Major, there are four major basilicas in Rome, that's one of them. Because it's a jubilee year once every 25 years, there would be a lot of tourists and pilgrims going through those four, the big holy doors of those four. But he had a devotion particularly to an icon of Our Lady. Our Lady who healed the health of the people of Rome. He would go there before and after every trip.

He actually went when he was coming home from the hospital, didn't get out of the car, but he had such a devotion to that that he wants to be buried there.

BERMAN: It really is interesting, the symbolism, which he leaned into from day one in his papacy and now until even after his papacy and after his life. You talk about the simplicity and his legacy. When will we know or how will we know that the Vatican and the College of Cardinals as it were wants to maintain that legacy and push it forward even more?

DWYER: Sure, that's interesting. Like any sort of election of humans, we believe that the Holy Spirit is guiding this process, but it's through human people, and so there's the tendency to swing one way or the other. Will people want to go to someone maybe who's just a little more staid and stable?

Pope Francis was always talking off the cuff and that unnerved some people, so whether or not it's an ideological shift, it might be to a different character or personality that seems different. In the same way that Pope Benedict was very different from Pope John Paul II, but kind of kept it going in the same way.

BERMAN: And Pope Francis, very different. Very different from Pope Benedict. And you know, naming names does no good right now, plus we have weeks to talk about that.

DWYER: Right, yes we do.

BERMAN: But the situation is that, you know, CNN just did the counting here. 135 voting members of the College of Cardinals younger than 80. You have to be younger than 80. Pope Francis appointed 108 of them. That's 80 percent of people now he appointed.

Does that necessarily mean they're 100 percent Pope Francis guys in terms of what he believed in and where he tried to nudge the church? DWYER: I don't think it certainly means 100 percent in the same way that we might see a president appointing judges or something like that. Kind of stacking it. No, but obviously there is something to the fact that he picked certain people and not other people.

He was not unaware of the fact that he's essentially choosing those who will be choosing his successor. So maybe he knows something you and I don't know.

BERMAN: Just finally, I just want to leave on this point here because with Pope Francis, who I do really think had an impactful, you know, 13 years, not just within the Catholic Church, but without. You knew what he was trying to tell you and I just wonder how he will be remembered for generations.

DWYER: Well, and he also was very transparent about that. We saw over the last two months very different from previous times that Popes were in a hospital. You would hear nothing.

And he really wanted to be transparent not just with that, but to be transparent about everything the church is doing. A lot of reform to the Roman Curia, the preocracy to give more eyeballs on that and more transparency about that. But the legacy I think will be written by the Holy Spirit and by the next successor to St. Peter.

[08:25:00]

BERMAN: And I know within the church they consider the Holy Spirit to be a terrific author as it were in this.

DWYER: Yes!

BERMAN: Father, great to see you.

DWYER: Yes, thanks.

This morning, the National Institutes of Health is moving to ban funding for medical research at universities that have diversity initiatives. And Health and Human Services Secretary Robert Kennedy Jr. announcing a new plan to phase out artificial food dyes in the U.S.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: New this morning, more than 100 college leaders are coming together in a new effort to push back on the Trump administration and releasing a joint statement saying this, they're opposing quote, political interference that they say now endangers American higher education.

And among the people who signed on to that letter is the president of Harvard. And Harvard just yesterday escalated its fight with the White House to a new level, filing a lawsuit over the administration's freeze on federal funds.

The White House responding this way: The gravy train of federal assistance to institutions like Harvard, which enriched their grossly overpaid bureaucrats with tax dollars from struggling American families is coming to an end.

[08:30:00]