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Rep. Pat Ryan (D-NY) On Scrutiny At Pentagon On Prominent Role Of Pete Hegseth's Wife; Vance Issues Ukraine Ultimatum As Rubio Skips Key Talks In London; Karen Read's Murder Retrial: Paramedic Testifies Read Said "I Hit Him" Multiple Times. Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired April 23, 2025 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:30:40]
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So this morning new CNN reporting on the increasing chaos around Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and now a new focus on the role of his wife in his work. There is mounting scrutiny surrounding Jennifer Hegseth after reports surfaced she was included in a second Signal chat where the defense secretary shared sensitive military operational details on a Houthi strike.
She has been a constant presence at her husband's side and even submitted paperwork for a security clearance. Unclear if she received one.
In fact, her presence at her husband's side in key meetings with foreign counterparts now has people concerned. A former senior Pentagon official saying this. "I have never in my professional life seen a spouse sit in on a meeting with counterparts from other countries where they talk through substantive matters related to our relationship with these foreign militaries."
And on his sharing of operational details with his wife and brother on Signal, Hegseth says this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: What was shared over Signal, then and now -- however you characterize it -- was informal, unclassified coordinations for media coordination and other things. That's what I've said from the beginning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Joining me right now is a member of the House Armed Services Committee, Democratic Congressman from New York, Pat Ryan. Congressman, thank you very much for being here.
REP. PAT RYAN (D-NY): Good morning.
BOLDUAN: First, just on the Signal chat fallout itself and Pete Hegseth's defense right there. What is your reaction to this as we -- as it now continues?
RYAN: Well, the last two interviews he did -- honestly, he seems borderline unhinged, which in and of itself is deeply concerning. I mean, we heard over the weekend and last week MAGA loyalists, Hegseth supporters say the Pentagon is in "total chaos." And while that might feel like an inside baseball process --
BOLDUAN: Um-hum.
RYAN: -- story, this affects troops in harm's way, men and women in uniform. I served 27 months in combat myself -- the effect on morale, the effect on safety.
The American people, regardless of political party, rightly have demanded accountability on this and yet we're seeing, with one exception -- which I give a lot of credit to Don Bacon, my colleague --
BOLDUAN: Um-hum.
RYAN: -- total silence and a bizarre defense of now a second leak of clearly classified, sensitive information.
BOLDUAN: And he continues to say nothing was classified. It has become again a semantic kind of defense and then a debate, which is what you're getting at in terms of getting into the weeds, but it is important.
Outside of Hegseth I really haven't heard many people say this isn't a big deal that this stuff was shared on Signal.
RYAN: Well, and we have to call this out, and I don't use this word lightly.
BOLDUAN: Um-hum.
RYAN: He is straight-up lying. They are straight-up lying. This has gone from a screw up to a cover up, now a second round of it, and we're learning more and more and more. And I'm hearing from folks that I know in the Pentagon who are nonpartisan folks that, like, this is really the tip of the iceberg.
BOLDUAN: Hmm.
RYAN: I mean, we saw senior folks resigning in significant ways last week. We saw essentially the top spokesperson write a public op-ed --
BOLDUAN: Yeah.
RYAN: -- defending Trump but saying Hegseth needs to go. That's pretty unprecedented.
Will Donald Trump, who made his reputation for "firing" people actually fire this guy and make our country safe again and really support our troops? That's what every American should be asking. BOLDUAN: I want to ask you about the -- also the new CNN reporting about the unprecedented involvement and closeness of Pete Hegseth's wife with him in his inner circle and in key meetings.
Another quote from our reporting is from a former Pentagon official -- rather, a U.S. official. "Any principal in the government theoretically is going to turn to their spouse of partner for advice, like anybody would in any high level position in the government or really any profession," they added. "But this is a pretty bizarre situation."
What do you think of this?
RYAN: Yeah, I agree. I think it's important to say the first part, which is these are tough, stressful jobs and having a support network for any leader is really important, so I don't want to attack him for that or certainly his wife.
But to me, if we zoom out what this just really shows is, like, a total carelessness and disregard for -- again, friends of mine that are F-18 pilots --
[07:35:05]
BOLDUAN: Um-hum.
RYAN: -- talking about the leaks around these Houthis strikes have definitively said if that information had been out for their strikes, it would have potentially cost lives, caused serious damage, and certainly put the mission at risk.
And his wife being included in these meetings I think is just another example of total amateur hour.
BOLDUAN: Hmm.
RYAN: That's really what we're talking about here -- amateur hour when the world is such a dangerous and volatile place. And again, we owe -- we just owe the American people more than that.
And I think it's very important. I've been pushing leadership in the House and pushing all my colleagues we cannot let this go. Trump's going to try to lie about it and try to move on from it. And there's a lot of other chaos and damage, particularly --
BOLDUAN: Yeah.
RYAN: -- in the economy, but this is important. This is vital to our common defense outlined in the Constitution.
BOLDUAN: Leaning just on another topic as it happened this morning is well, there are critical talks that are going to be happening overseas with regard to trying to bring an end to the war in Ukraine.
J.D. Vance just issued an ultimatum to Russia and Ukraine with regard to peace talks. Let me play what he said for you. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, (R) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've issued a very explicit proposal to both the Russians and the Ukrainians and it's time for them to either say yes or for the United States to walk away from this process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Say yes or America's out.
Do you think an ultimatum is warranted at this point?
RYAN: Well, the question is what are the terms of that ultimatum? I know there was --
BOLDUAN: Yeah.
RYAN: -- leaked information, for example, that essentially Crimea would just be handed to Putin, which he invaded and violated the sovereignty of another country, which we -- to me is an unacceptable red line --
BOLDUAN: OK.
RYAN: -- that was crossed. So if those are the terms of the supposed ultimatum, I don't think we should agree to that.
And again, I think this is another example of we all want a war to end --
BOLDUAN: Yeah.
RYAN: -- but that doesn't -- you know, there's a difference between a negotiation and essentially a surrender. And I think that's really what -- if you look at it, what Trump and Vance have asked not only Ukraine to do but Europe. And I'm a big peace through strength person, and they claim to be --
BOLDUAN: Yeah.
RYAN: -- but then they're essentially waving the white flag and asking our ally who fought so hard for years to do that. And I just think it's frankly very weak.
BOLDUAN: Hmm.
Congressman, it's great to have you here. Thank you so much for coming in.
RYAN: Thanks.
BOLDUAN: I really appreciate it -- John.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. New this morning a federal judge in Maryland is blasting the Trump administration accusing it of willful and intentional noncompliance in the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the man mistakenly deported to El Salvador.
A separate federal judge in New York compared the government's tactics on deportations to a medieval inquisition saying, "These people are being thrown out of the country because of tattoos."
Let's get right to CNN's Katelyn Polantz in Washington. And the federal judiciary not pleased this morning, Katelyn.
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: They're not happy, John. These are the judges at the trial level courts around the country. They're managing the individual cases of immigrants who are challenging the removal decisions by the Trump administration to send them to this prison in El Salvador. And the judges -- they're not happy because of the way the Justice Department is approaching these cases or even how forthcoming they're being with these people like Abrego Garcia in El Salvador.
In that situation that's before Judge Paula Xinis in Maryland, and she wrote a -- just a scorcher of an order yesterday telling the Justice Department they need to actually give legal arguments about why they're not answering questions in that case. There is some fact- finding being done about how they may be or may not be complying with her orders to facilitate Abrego Garcia's return to the United States from that prison.
And she says this ends now because they're being vague and unsubstantial in their legal arguments. They're evading compliance with her court orders "using this vagueness to hide as a shield," she writes.
And she says that this man, Abrego Garcia, and his attorneys -- they deserve information like documentation of him being sent to El Salvador -- the reasons for that. The administration's documentation on why they're using that prison. What -- who actually is in charge there. Does the U.S. still have some ability to have his custody even though he is in El Salvador where he's a citizen.
And also, he has a right to know what the documentation is that the U.S. has that he is supposedly, in their belief, a member of MS-13. That isn't even being provided to him.
That's in Maryland.
In New York City there is another federal judge, Judge Alvin Hellerstein, who had another hearing yesterday. This is about people who are being accused of being members of the group Tren de Aragua and who were almost sent to that Salvadoran prison in March 15 and narrowly avoided it.
[07:40:05]
The judge there -- he's telling the Justice Department you have to give these people some sort of proceeding notice in Spanish, their language, not just in English. Some way to challenge their removal from the United States under the Alien Enemies Act of 1798, something that's only been used before in wartime after, say, World War II for the removal of Japanese people in the United States.
The judge in that case -- some quotes here. "This is not a secret court, an inquisition of medieval times. It's the United States of America. And if you want to have due process, you've got to tell a person what he has done to merit his being removed."
John, you also mentioned that the judge said that these people are being thrown out of the country because of tattoos. The judge in that case said not just tattoos, it's things like tattoos, logos graffiti, hand gestures. That this is a very thin basis the United States is moving.
And then finally, the Justice Department tried to argue that, you know, we believe the Alien Enemies Act is the sort of thing that Trump was elected to use to remove people from the United States. And the judge retorted, "We are not talking about popularity here."
John.
BERMAN: Wow, some unhappy judges asking for answers and not getting what they are seeking.
Katelyn Polantz, thank you very much for that report -- Sara.
SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Wow.
All right, now for more on Vice President J.D. Vance's warning -- an ultimatum for Ukraine and Russia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: We've issued a very explicit proposal to both the Russians and the Ukrainians and it's time for them to either say yes or for the United States to walk away from this process. We have engaged in an extraordinary amount of diplomacy, of on-the-ground work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: This is all coming as Secretary of State Marco Rubio is skipping a major meeting in London today aimed at bringing an end to Russia's war on Ukraine. The talks hitting a big stumbling block over the future of Russian-occupied Crimea.
CNN's Nic Robertson is in London for us this morning. Nic, give us a sense of what you're learning. I mean, clearly, from the United States' perspective these talks have broken down and there was warning that they might just give up.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, that's what we heard from Secretary of State Marco Rubio when he got done with those talks in Paris Friday morning. That was the message -- come back to the table and get moving on this quickly, which is what his partners in Paris did. The Ukrainians, the British, the French, the Germans at foreign minister level were meeting -- going to meet today but that collapsed when Marco Rubio said that because of logistical issues he wasn't able to make it. The meeting is still happening. Keith Kellogg, President Trump's special envoy on Ukraine, is the sort of lead U.S. voice here in the U.K. But they've been downgraded to official level talks.
Unfortunately for the Ukrainians it appears that they didn't get the message until too late. Their defense minister and foreign ministers have showed up here today. They have met with their opposite numbers in the U.K.
And it -- and it really raises that question: where is the ball now? It appeared that the pressure was coming on the Europeans and the Ukrainians but now we understand later this week Steve Witkoff, President Trump's special envoy and chief negotiator if you will, is going back to Moscow for a fourth round of talks, potentially with President Putin. Is that where the ball is shifting?
From a U.K. perspective we heard from the defense secretary here yesterday, John Healey, speaking in Parliament. We know over the weekend President Putin appeared or perhaps modified his position a little bit off of this 30-hour truce when he was actually asked for a 30-day truce. But the British defense secretary saying British military intelligence assesses that Putin didn't even honor that truce.
In fact, listen to what John Healey had to say. He says Putin is the one here playing for time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN HEALEY, UK SECRETARY OF STATE FOR DEFENSE: So while Putin has said he declared an Easter truce, he broke it. While Putin says he wants peace, he's rejected a full ceasefire. And while Putin says he wants to put an end to the fighting he continues to play for time in the negotiations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: So United States allies here -- Britain, France, Germany, and the Ukrainians -- all seem to have the same view that it is Russia that's dragging its feet. While J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio both say that the clock is ticking everyone else is pointing to the clock and saying it's Russia that's watching the seconds, hours, and days go by here; not them.
SIDNER: Yeah, there's a lot of disturbing details in that with -- we're seeing the pictures from Zaporizhzhia from an attack there by Russia with so many lives hanging in the balance.
Nic Robertson, thank you so much for all of your reporting on this -- Kate.
[05:45:00]
BOLDUAN: A big night in both the NBA and NHL Playoffs, including a nailbiter of a bounce back and a thrilling overtime win. When you say "thrilling overtime win" you know that means late, and so I obviously did not get to see it. But that is why we've got the one and only man dressed in black today, Coy Wire. What happened?
COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Yeah. Good morning, Kate. That's why you had me to only get three hours of sleep to bring you the sports highlights, baby.
Lakers coach JJ Reddick said he wasn't sure his team was physically ready in their first-round loss to Minnesota -- code for you got your butts whipped, boys. Well, they needed to win at home to redeem themselves and tie the series with Minnesota and they came out cooking.
Luka Doncic, Drano. He had a game-high 31. L.A. with a 19-point lead after the first. Luka also had game-highs in rebounds with 12 assists with nine. This assist here to LeBron for three of his 21 points. But this pass right here, Kate, it's just silly. Doncic with the no look to Finney-Smith. Look at this -- Luka, LeBron, and the Lakers bounce back --
BOLDUAN: Oh my God. That is so cool.
WIRE: -- evening the series at one. Dope on a rope, right? That was a 94-85 win.
Now, the Bucks-Pacers in Indy -- Milwaukee was looking to even the series with help from Dame Time. Superstar Damian Lillard back after missing time with a blood clot in his calf. He went for 14 points, including that huge three, to bring them within two with a couple of minutes to go.
But Pascal and the Pacers playing pumped up on offense and firepower and with some snark. Siakam with a team-high 24. Watch Tyrese Haliburton here mocking Lillard's gametime celebration. How dare you? Dame did not like that and hard words for Tyrese. Bobby Portis had some words for Siakam.
The Pacers win 123-115, taking a 2-0 series lead setting up for a juicy game three back in Milwaukee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TYRESE HALIBURTON, GUARD, INDIANA PACERS: We don't have to sit here and act like it's any secret. We don't like them, and they don't like us, and that's just what it is. And I think we -- they live for this, and we live for this. So I could care less. I'm out here just trying to help my team win games. So there's got to be a little bit of back- and-forth -- there's got to be a little back-and-forth but I'm here to win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WIRE: Now for that OT thriller, Kate. Look at the scenes outside of Maple Leafs' arena in Toronto for the Stanley Cup Playoffs. No ticket, no problem.
The hometown crowd sent into a frenzy early in the first against the Senators. Morgan Rielly -- watch him use his skate to send it home. But this game went to overtime tied at two.
And Max doing it like his dad. Three minutes in he fires the game- winner actually not like his dad, the Leafs legend "Tie" Domi, because he never had a playoff OT game-winner, Kate, but his son did.
Toronto wins 3-2, taking a 2-0 series lead.
Kate, did you know it's been more than 30 years since hockey crazed nation of Canada has won the Stanley Cup? This could be their year. We'll see.
BOLDUAN: They've got extra motivation this time because now it's like -- well, you could almost apply that NBA line: "They don't like us, and we don't like them." Just kidding.
WIRE: Yeah.
BOLDUAN: Just kidding.
WIRE: I see what you did there.
BOLDUAN: I really like that line. I'm going to use that. I feel like that with Berman all the time. He don't like me and I don't like him. We're just out here to play the game. Oh, John, you're here -- sorry.
BERMAN: I'm just here to win.
And during the break Kate, I want you to ask Coy what Anthony Edwards got fined for saying on the court last night.
BOLDUAN: Say it on air, Coy. Say it on air.
BERMAN: But no, don't say it on TV. Don't say it on TV.
WIRE: Oh, no.
BERMAN: That's for the break.
WIRE: I'm sorry, I think I'm breaking up. I've got to go.
BERMAN: He's breaking up. That's for the break. All right, everyone rushing to the internet right now.
This morning a fast-moving wildfire in New Jersey rips through thousands of acres, forcing people to flee.
And "I hit him." That's what one witness said he heard from Karen Read who is accused of killing her police officer boyfriend. New witnesses set to take the stand this morning.
(COMMERCIAL)
[07:53:05]
BOLDUAN: Some of the headlines we are watching right now. Florida State University held its first on-campus sporting event since that gunman killed two people and injured six others in that mass shooting last week. A row of flowers and tributes lining a walkway that you can see right there. The Seminole baseball team took on Stetson University saying on X that the game was "more than baseball." That's for sure.
There are all -- there was also a moment of reflection and silence before the game started. The crowd gave first responders and the Tallahassee Memorial health care workers a standing ovation at the event.
The Seminoles beat the -- beat Stetson 11-6.
There is also this really stunning video to show you coming out of Hawaii. Giant fountains of lava flowing from the Kilauea volcano shooting as high as 650 feet in the air. So far this is, we're told, the 18th time this volcano has had active flows and fountains since the latest eruption began in December.
Fun fact: lava can range from 1,300 to 2,200 degrees Fahrenheit. The brighter the orange color the hotter the lava is. Hmm -- Sara.
SIDNER: All right. In just a few hours Karen Read's murder retrial resumes where we heard some potentially damning testimony from the first witness who took the stand. A paramedic testified that he heard Read say multiple times "I hit him." She's accused of fatally striking her police officer boyfriend with her car.
Here with me now is CNN's correspondent Jean Casarez, and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson.
All right. Jean, you have been watching every second --
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
SIDNER: -- of this trial. And this trial is so interesting, and it has really blown up a whole community with people taking sides. The country also watching.
What did you learn, and what are you expecting today?
CASAREZ: Well finally, we're into the trial, right, and I think the opening statements yesterday were riveting on both sides.
[07:55:00]
What we heard from the commonwealth -- because right now their case is being presented in court -- that when Karen Read and John O'Keefe, as the passenger, pulled up to the house that was having the after-party that night that John O'Keefe got out of the car and that the forensics of the car -- and they've got more of it for this trial than they did for the first trial -- that the forensics is going to show that she drove straight for 35 feet -- John's out of the car, right -- and she stops. And then she puts it in neutral, pauses again, and then she puts it in reverse, puts the accelerator down 75 percent of the way it will go and go backwards he said more than 70 feet.
And their theory will be that she clipped John with the car, he fell. The blizzard hadn't started yet. Cracked his head open and that's how he died.
But it was that first responder that took the stand as the first witness. He was the first person to work on John O'Keefe who lay in the snow. And by the way, the grass was underneath his body. That's significant --
SIDNER: Right.
CASAREZ: -- as to when he got out there and died.
And suddenly, a woman is standing next to him, and he asks her, "Do you know anything?" I think we want to roll that right now. Hear his testimony of what Karen Read's really first excited utterance to this first responder was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As you're kneeling, trying to help Mr. O'Keefe, did you have a chance at any point to look up?
TIMOTHY NUTTALL, FIRST RESPONDER: I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when you looked up when you were trying to help Mr. O'Keefe can you tell us who you saw?
NUTTALL: I saw a middle-aged male -- sorry, middle-aged female with blood on her face. And I real quick, as I was in the process of providing ventilation, I said, "Do you -- do you know this person?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when you looked up and saw that person and asked about any background what did she say to you?
NUTTALL: Uh, "I hit him. I hit him. I hit him."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Those were what he said.
Now, on the defense side the impeached him on that cross-examination saying last trial we -- we've got your testimony -- you said she said it two times to you. Now you're saying three times. What's the truth?
But here's the point. Karen Read has done a lot of interviews.
SIDNER: Hmm.
CASAREZ: And she did interviews --
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yeah.
CASAREZ: -- where she talked about saying that she hit him. SIDNER: True, right, right. And they always tell you, like, be careful what you say.
JACKSON: Always.
SIDNER: Joey, I'm curious in this case because this is a retrial after a mistrial. In this case is it going to be very much the new forensic evidence that Jean just said -- hey, they have some new information about the car and stuff that they could get out of the black box in the car and the experts' testimony? Because the defense has a very different view of what happened here.
JACKSON: And it's always the case, right? Any trial, Sara, is a battle of the narratives. You have one side indicating one thing. Look, he hit her, she died, so says the prosecution --
SIDNER: Right.
JACKSON: -- and the defense says nonsense.
Now there's a reason also why at the end of every day the judge says keep an open mind and don't talk about anything to each other because it's evolving and it's not going to be based on one testimony.
But here is what we do know. What we know is that -- forgetting about for one second this black box, or whatever you want to call it, with the Lexus that shows movement of the car --
SIDNER: Yeah.
JACKSON: -- they were having a party in that home. People were leaving that home. No one sees a person laying there. That's problematic. If you're leaving somewhere there might be a body there.
SIDNER: Yeah.
JACKSON: Number two, there's a plow because there's a blizzard. A plow was in that specific area. No one in the plow sees a body laying there, right, because this is much earlier in the evening, right?
And then in addition to that you don't have -- you have a car, which the defense indicates was parked there at the time.
Now, next point. The next point is we've heard the testimony from the first responder, right, as to what he says happened, but that's at 6:00 in the morning. This allegedly happened at about 12:00 or thereabouts, or 1:00 in the morning.
And so you have to in any trial look at the testimony in context and give perspective to it. And even if she did say "I hit him" twice, three times, whatever it is, was that her saying, "Oh my God, did I do this?" The evidence would seem to suggest, as the defense, that she did not.
SIDNER: Yeah. There is so much to this case, and I know it's got a lot of our attention. I know that you both will be following every detail and we will be getting all the details from you every time we can. Thank you both so much.
CASAREZ: OK, thank you.
SIDNER: The trial continues today, of course.
Jean Casarez and our Joey Jackson both here with us -- John.
BERMAN: All right. This morning evacuations have been lifted in parts of New Jersey after more than 3,000 people were ordered to evacuate there because of fast-moving wildfire. That fire spread to 8,500 acres leaving more than 26,000 customers without power.
Let's get right to meteorologist Derek Van Dam for the latest on this. What are you learning this morning, Derek?
DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yeah, John. For a period there the Garden State Parkway, a major artery that runs north and south and gives a lot of access to the beaches of coastal New Jersey -- that was closed down for a period of time on Tuesday. That has since been lifted. So has Ocean and Lacey Townships.
But the cause of those evacuations was this.
