Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

with Rep. Byron Donalds (R-FL): Hegseth's Wife, Brother Included in Second Signal Chat; Trump Signals Potential U-Turn on His Trade War with China; Trump Administration Reached Out to Harvard Three Times Last Week. Aired 8:00-8:30a ET

Aired April 23, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: That was closed down for a period of time on Tuesday. That has since been lifted. So has Ocean and Lacey Townships.

But the cause of those evacuations was this. I mean, just incredible to see this firefighting effort with all the smoke billowing into the sky. This is just an incredible sight to see, especially in the state of New Jersey.

We typically see these things and experience them and are more used to them in the Western parts of the U.S., but that wasn't the case. It was actually visible from space yesterday as well. Look at the fire erupt Tuesday afternoon.

You can see the smoke billowing into the Atlantic Ocean, clearly a westerly wind, just for some geographical reference, Atlantic City to the south, New York City and Philadelphia to the north and west. And this is the national forest that was burning here in Oceans County, New Jersey. And of course we've got this ongoing drought that is just exacerbating the problem. We've got moderate to severe drought in the southern portions of the state.

Now, in terms of the winds, there are no winds that will meet the fire criteria for the day today. According to the National Weather Service, we got some information from them earlier this morning.

The humidity levels will actually increase. And John, the good news here is that the rain will help extinguish the flames Friday into Saturday. You can see this cold front moving in now.

Back to you.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Derek Van Dam for us. Thank you very much. Brand new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

So this morning, quote, bewildering and a concern. New reporting and new questions, not just surrounding Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, but now his wife and what she is doing at the Pentagon.

New reports this morning that the Trump administration is looking for an off-ramp in its legal battle with Harvard. The White House reaching out multiple times to negotiate, but Harvard says it has no interest in making a deal.

And this morning, Elon Musk announcing plans to step back some from his government role to focus on Tesla. This comes after the company's profits plunge.

I'm John Berman with Kate Bolduan and Sara Sidner. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news this morning, new details and new reporting on the chaos inside the Pentagon under Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. And the growing questions now about the role his wife, Jennifer Hegseth, is playing. That is because of the reports that she was included in that new Signal chat where sources say her husband, the Defense Secretary, shared sensitive details about a military strike on Yemen.

One source telling CNN that Hegseth is so concerned about leaks to the media that he is in quote, full paranoia back against the wall mode. Others say some of his closest advisors are getting so frustrated about all of this, they're considering resigning. And one source says Jennifer Hegseth did apply for security clearance, but unclear whether she got it.

She has been a constant presence by her husband's side in meetings with Hegseth's foreign counterparts and also by his side during his in-office confirmation meetings with senators. And to that, one former senior Pentagon official who served under Republican administration says that -- tells CNN, they had quote, never heard of anyone bringing their spouse to an office meeting and that it bothered a lot of senators.

Despite the tension in the Department of Defense, Hegseth has remained defiant. The president has publicly stood by him. Yet according to two sources, the president is seeking feedback now behind the scenes about the Pentagon chief's performance.

CNN's Kevin Liptak has some of this new reporting and he's joining us right now. Kevin, what is the latest?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, I think the turmoil inside the Pentagon is becoming harder and harder for the White House to ignore. And even though you hear President Trump and top officials all closing ranks around Pete Hegseth, it is becoming readily apparent that one of the most important parts of the U.S. government, the Department of Defense, is on increasingly unsteady footing. And we are learning about two new examples of some of the chaos that has engulfed the Pentagon over the last several months.

In one, there was a scramble on the part of the White House to try and get Hegseth to sign off on a memo related to this Iron Dome missile defense system that President Trump had ordered up. Essentially, the White House was having trouble getting a hold of Hegseth's chief of staff to get that signed off on.

In another instance, Hegseth bypassed some of the Pentagon's own lawyers to go to the head of some of its most classified programs to try and get a briefing for Elon Musk. Eventually, the ethics lawyers sort of nixed that in the bud.

Now, for now, President Trump is standing by Hegseth.

[08:05:00]

He says that he is not going to fire him. He's spoken to him multiple times over the last several days.

Certainly, there is very little appetite inside the White House for another confirmation hearing. And President Trump, I think, doesn't want to have a firing so early on in his term.

We've also heard this morning from the Vice President, J.D. Vance, who also says that he retains confidence in Hegseth. Listen to Vance this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Look, I have 100 percent confidence in the Secretary. I know the President does, and really the entire team does. I think he's doing a great job.

I think that he's brought a certain spirit back to the Department of Defense. And if you look at our military recruitment numbers, that's, in my view, the best testament to his leadership of the military. And I wish, frankly, the press talked more about that and not about anonymous sourcing from random staffers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: So those random staffers that he's talking about there were actually handpicked members of Hegseth's inner circle. They had worked for him for years and years before being abruptly dismissed this week. That, I think, is part of what is leading to sort of this disorientation and the sense of chaos that is now prevailing over at the Pentagon.

BOLDUAN: Kevin Liptak at the White House for us. Kevin, thank you so much for bringing us your reporting -- Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, joining me now, Republican Congressman of Florida and candidate for Florida Governor, Byron Donalds. Thank you so much for being here, Byron. Let's talk about what's happening with Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth.

He shared these detailed plans, as you heard, about military operations against the Houthis in Yemen on a second Signal group chat, which was from his personal phone, which included his wife, his lawyer, and brother. Should Trump fire Pete Hegseth?

REP. BYRON DONALDS: No, and I think, obviously, President Trump is standing behind Pete Hegseth, so is Vice President Vance, and the rest of the White House team. Let's be very clear, this is an allegation, apparently, from somebody who's been dismissed. These type of things, unfortunately, do happen where, you know, somebody's upset and they want to leave. But before we jump to conclusions, let's actually make sure we have all the facts, not just run to headlines. Pete Hegseth is doing a great job as the head of the Department of Defense. Like the Vice President was saying in the cut you just played, recruitment is up, morale is up.

We're actually getting back to the business of the military being focused on its mission, which is defeating the enemy, if that is what the situation calls for. So we should be focused on the aptitude of doing his job, not allegations from people who have been dismissed.

SIDNER: Well, speaking of doing his job, our Natasha Bertrand has reporting that the White House couldn't even get in touch with his chief of staff for three weeks to get them to sign something. And then you have one of his closest advisors, his former secretary, former press secretary, saying this, and he sent us the statement.

It's been a month of total chaos at the Pentagon, from leaks of sensitive operational plans to mass firings, the dysfunction is now a major distraction for the president who deserves better from his senior leadership.

Does this not bother you at all?

DONALDS: Look, first of all, let's lay out a couple things. Pete Hegseth has been on the job, what, six weeks now? Just about.

They're going through the Department of Defense, obviously trying to find inefficiencies, making sure there are not legacy staffers and political appointees at DOD, who, to be frank with you, are opposed to the agenda of President Trump. This happens all the time when you have transitions in government. You have holdovers from previous administrations, who do not share the vision that the president has.

And so Pete Hegseth is trying to reorganize DOD and get it up to snuff, because let's not sit here and act like DOD was doing a bang-up job under the previous administration.

Number two, nobody was saying a word when Lloyd Austin, the previous defense secretary, disappeared for a month. Nobody could find him.

But you want to talk about --

SIDNER: We did say a words, we reported that story.

DONALDS: -- nobody could get a memo signed by the chief of staff for three weeks? This is not even the same type of story.

SIDNER: It isn't fair to say nobody is saying a word. So you think that the defense secretary, the former defense secretary under Biden, going to the hospital for treatment, not telling the president, admitting that he did not tell the president, although there was someone that was heading at the time, is an equal thing to somebody who is giving out information to his wife, who does not have a security clearance, to his lawyer, to his brother, on a personal cell phone, on a Signal chat, which he's already been looked at for, for doing that with a whole bunch of folks from the administration.

You're equating those two things. Do you think those are the same things? And you're OK with Pete Hegseth and what he did, but not OK with what Lloyd Austin did?

DONALDS: I'm not equating those two things.

SIDNER: You just did.

DONALDS: I think that Secretary Austin not being around, not even tell -- let me finish my statement. I'm not equating them.

[08:10:00]

I'm saying that when Secretary Austin was not around, he was in the hospital. I'm glad that he's better. I'm glad he's healthy, but he disappeared.

The president at the time did not know where he was. Nobody knew where he was. That is significantly worse than the situation that you're talking about, especially when we're actually having a conversation about an allegation against Secretary Hegseth and ignoring the job happening at DOD right now where recruitment is up amongst our fighting forces. Morale is up amongst our fighting forces.

That's what we should be focused on, not new allegations because CNN and other news medias want something to talk about.

SIDNER: Great, but some of these are not allegations. Some of these are coming from his own former press secretary. Some of these are coming because we saw the chats already with his, you know, with the leadership on Signal.

So we saw that he uses Signal and inappropriately uses it. So I guess the question to you is, you sound like you're putting these two things together and that you've seen them as the same, but I want to understand if you are OK with him using Signal to talk about war plans, to talk about the attack as it's happening, both with his circle and a reporter who was added onto that chat, mind you, and with his own family members. Are you OK with that?

DONALDS: Are we going to talk about the Signal chat from chat number one with White House officials, when it's already clear --

SIDNER: Both. And a reporter, don't forget that there was an "Atlantic" reporter on there.

DONALDS: -- that they were not talking about classified information, that he classified information was held, was held -- hold on a minute -- that he classified information was actually held in the classified server system that is used by White House officials. Are we going to talk about that or a different conversation?

Look let's be clear. Pete Hegseth has done his job as Secretary of Defense right now. Recruitment is up. We were hemorrhaging soldiers at the Department of Defense under the previous administration. That is a fact. Nobody can debate that.

So if you want to focus on Signal Gate 2.0, that's fine. What we are focused on is making sure that the military and the Department of Defense has the troops that it needs, has the focus that it needs to take on the challenges facing the United States of America and that if the President of the United States, Donald Trump, has to call on our military to come to action, like they actually had to do during the situation with the Houthis, that the Department of Defense is prepared to respond, respond quickly and to be effective. And that is clear of what's already occurred under the leadership of Pete Hegseth at the Department of Defense.

SIDNER: You stand behind him. That makes it very clear. So far does the President.

Congressman Byron Donalds, thank you so much for coming on and talking about this -- John.

BERMAN: All right, guess what phrase is trending on Chinese social media this morning? Trump chickened out. This as President Trump hints at a U-turn on tariffs. And this morning, U.S. markets love it.

And for the first time, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro giving a detailed account of the arson attack in his residence. He says, quote, it looked like a bomb had gone off in the middle of our home.

Elon Musk announced his plans to step back some from his role in the Trump administration to refocus on Tesla. This comes after his company's profits plummeted.

[08:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right, this morning the #TrumpChickenedOut is trending on Chinese social media after President Trump signaled a potential U-turn in this trade war with China. The president told reporters tariffs on Chinese good will, quote, come down substantially, but it won't be zero.

Now Wall Street futures pointing higher this morning. In some cases, you know, substantially higher after huge gains yesterday. That followed Treasury Secretary Scott Besson's comments to investors that the trade war with China is unsustainable. It also followed President Trump saying he has no plans to fire Fed Chair Jerome Powell.

With us this morning is Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Analytics. Futures way up this morning, a big day yesterday. What is it the markets are seeing that they like so much?

MARK ZANDI, CHIEF ECONOMIST, MOODY'S ANALYTICS: Well, they like the idea that the trade war is de-escalating, moving in the other direction, particularly with China. I mean, we have tariffs of 145 percent on their goods. They have tariffs on our goods of 125 percent.

John, that means there's no trade between these two countries at those tariff rates. And this is the largest trading relationship in the world of exports and imports. So if that's not working, you know, it's going to be a problem for not only our economies, but for the global economy. So I think investors are really happy about that.

You know, a lot of scripts will still be written in this drama, but this is a better script. And then also the de-escalation and the kind of the rhetoric around Fed independence and the criticism of Fed Chair Powell, that's really, you know, very positive and encouraging.

Obviously, we need a independent central bank, a reserve to conduct policy based on their views of the economy and their objectives, not based on politics. And, you know, the thing most fundamentally I take encouragement in is that the administration does appear to be sensitive to the markets.

I mean, the market was way, way down on Monday. It looked pretty dark. Stocks were falling, interest rates were rising. The dollar was falling in value.

And the president and the administration seem to have taken that in and are responding to that. So all of that is, in my view, good news.

BERMAN: Yes, so the market's responding to what they see as something of a retreat on tariffs against China, what they see as something of a retreat on the president's intentions to try to fire Jerome Powell.

So the White House backing off, the president backing off, the question mark is what have they gotten out of this so far? What successes can they point to at this point?

ZANDI: You know, John, I'm not sure. I'm not sure what the aim here is. You know, certainly there's been damage.

[08:20:00]

I mean, we're all a little less wealthy because of the stock declines and the higher interest rates. And, you know, everyone's a bit shell- shocked by this consumer business confidence is really on the floor. And, you know, I suspect we'll see some cuts in spending and investment. It's going to be a pretty tough economy here.

So I can see the costs. I know what they are. I'm not sure what the benefits are.

I mean, again, as I said, the script is still being written. Apparently there's a lot of negotiations going on. Perhaps something comes out of that.

But I'm hard-pressed to point to anything at this point in terms of where the benefits are relative to the cost.

BERMAN: So when we woke up this morning, we saw that the phrase Trump chickened out was trending on Chinese social media, 110 million views or likes of this hashtag. One wonders there, you know, how directly or indirectly the government's involved in sending that message out. What do you think the Chinese see right now in the Trump administration's actions and words?

ZANDI: Yes, you know, this is a phenomenon across the globe. I think the rest of the world is taking this as, you know, a challenge and it's whipping up nationalism. You can see it in, you know, Canada. You can see it in Europe. And I think you're seeing it in China.

I think, you know, this is a war. It's a trade war, but a war, nonetheless. And I think when that happens, it's not surprising the countries that are feeling the brunt of this are going to feel nationalistic and, you know, rally, so-called rally around their flag. And I suspect that's what's happening here.

So, you know, that's another side effect of all of this. You know, I think it's, you know, leading to other countries looking at us very differently and, you know, they're going to fight back. And it's certainly in the case of China.

BERMAN: Do you think that China and other countries around the world, not to mention businesses and universities and colleges, are getting a message that you wait long enough, the White House will back down?

ZANDI: Well, I don't know, John. You know, I do think it's important that everyone, you know, stands up for, you know, their principles and their rights and, you know, protect their own interests. And I think that's what's going on here.

And I suspect we'll see more of that. But we'll have to see how this plays out. You know, this is all really good news as of today.

But as you know, a lot of drama here, a lot of ups and downs. And I'm sure we're going to see many more down days dead ahead.

BERMAN: Every day brings a new adventure. Mark Zandi, thanks so much for coming on this morning. Really appreciate your time, as always -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Well, right now thousands of mourners are gathering at St. Peter's Basilica in Rome to pay respect to Pope Francis as he lies in state now ahead of his funeral. We are also learning more details this morning about his final moments.

Plus, a new twist in the growing fight between the White House and Harvard University. The Trump administration now signaling they want to negotiate.

[08:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SIDNER: All right. All new details could point towards an off-ramp for President Trump's feud with Harvard. A source telling our reporters here at CNN that Trump officials reached out to Harvard representatives three times last week, but Harvard indicated it's not interested in negotiating.

University donors are urging the school's board to make a deal. Without one, the legal showdown over frozen federal funds could slog through courts for years.

CNN's Kara Scannell is joining us now.

What are you hearing from the Trump administration in all of this? I mean, it feels like intrigue with universities, which is a little bit of an odd place to be.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. I mean, and what we have learned is that a source told me that last week Trump officials had reached out to Harvard three times trying to restart talks. This was after the big showdown where Harvard said, no, they weren't going to agree to the demands.

And then the Trump administration immediately froze more than $2 billion in assets. And so they might revoke the Trump -- the tax exempt status. And then on Monday, Harvard filed this lawsuit.

Since then, there's been a little bit of a softening of this stance from the White House. Yesterday, the education secretary, Linda McMahon, was on CNBC saying she hoped Harvard would return to the table. Here's more of what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINDA MCMAHON, EDUCATION SECRETARY: This was a negotiation letter. It was really not a final offer of anything. We had hoped Harvard would come back to the table to discuss these.

We would like to have viewpoint diversity. We would like to have all of the things that students that are going to universities have a right to expect. So this is a negotiation, too.

We hope Harvard will come back to the table. We'd like to be able to move forward with them and with other universities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCANNELL: And yesterday, a White House official told our colleague, Betsy Klein, that Trump is the dealmaker. He would like to make a deal here. They even said that the president is always willing to meet with leaders from across the nation on issues he's focused on. No meeting is under consideration at this time.

Of course, though, as you said before, you know, the New York Times reporting that some of these mega donors who happen to be close to Trump are urging Harvard to try to reach a deal. But it's always going to come down to what are the terms of this deal and how much is Harvard willing to concede as they're fighting now this in court as well.

SIDNER: Right. They fought it in court. I mean, it's clear that Harvard was bullied here and felt bullied, for sure, because taking away their exemption status, their tax exempt status is a huge deal, probably even bigger than taking $2 million from them.

SCANNELL: When you combine the two, it could have a real significant impact on them.

SIDNER: All right, Kara Scannell, I know you'll be watching all the details, as you always do.

Kate, speaking of details.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us this morning, Vice President J.D. Vance and the ultimatum on ending the war in Ukraine. The details on the deal that he's pushing Russia and Ukraine to take or essentially he's saying America is out.

And also the FDA commissioner calls them a toxic soup of chemicals and is pushing to phase out certain food dyes. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is back with us to answer your questions about it.

[08:30:00]