Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Vatican Prepares for Pope's Funeral Saturday; Judge Orders Detained Palestinian Student to Remain in Vermont for Now; Text Messages Revealed in Karen Read Trial. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired April 24, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: These are live images from St. Peter's Basilica, where mourners are waiting for hours to see Pope Francis lying in state. The Vatican says at least 90,000 people have lined up to pay their respects. Tomorrow, the Pope's coffin will be sealed in a Catholic rite, and then his funeral is set to take place on Saturday.

The Vatican says that among the last to see his coffin will be a group of people who have a, quote, privileged place in the heart of Francis. A group of the poor and needy will be on the steps leading to the Pope's final resting place before his burial.

CNN's Christopher Lamb joins us now live from Rome.

And Christopher, you were learning more about the Pope's final days. Tell us more about what you've learned.

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Boris, I was in St. Peter's Square the day before Francis died. I saw him come out on the Popemobile for one last time to greet the crowd. It was an electric atmosphere as people saw the Pope, who, of course, had been hospitalized and had been recovering for a long period.

But it was clear on that day that Francis was not looking well. He wasn't engaged in the usual way that he is when he greeted people. But we're hearing, though, from the doctor who looked after the Pope, Sergio Alfieri, who said that he was called to the Santa Marta, where the Pope lived, and Francis was unresponsive.

His eyes were open, but it was clear he'd slipped into a coma. And what Alfieri was explaining is that the Pope's death was very swift, but also peaceful.

And we know from another account from the Pope's personal health care assistant, Massimiliano Srappetti. Srappetti said that as the Pope was at the end, he made a gesture of farewell to his nurse and then died in a very peaceful way.

So we are hearing about those final moments of Pope Francis. It was his wish to serve in his role as Pope right until the end, to be amongst people right in those final hours and moments. And I think that was what he wanted. It was very powerful that the Pope decided that he wanted to make that final trip to St. Peter's Square to greet people, and then the next day, peacefully dying -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: And Christopher, walk us through what's going to happen before the Pope is buried on Saturday.

LAMB: Well, the funeral of Pope Francis will take place in St. Peter's Square, expecting tens of thousands to flood into the square for that funeral. It will be presided out by the Dean of the College of Cardinals, Cardinal Re. Those of you who have watched Conclave, the movie, will know the Dean of the College of Cardinals plays an important role during a papal transition.

So that funeral liturgy will take place in the square. And then afterwards, the Pope's coffin will be taken to the Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore, the chosen resting place and burial place for Francis.

[15:35:00]

And he'll be buried in a simple tomb, which simply says Franciscus. So the Pope, very much in his death, trying to send a message about what his papacy was all about, simplicity, humility, and concern for the poorest and the marginalized in society -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: And Christopher Lamb, live for us in Rome. Thank you so much for that update.

Still ahead, a Palestinian student leader thought he was going to a final interview to obtain his U.S. citizenship. Instead, he was arrested by ICE and is now facing deportation. We'll speak to his attorney live in just a few minutes. Don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: A Columbia University student arrested by ICE during an interview for U.S. citizenship and who is currently being detained in his home state of Vermont must remain in federal custody for now. Mohsen Mahdawi, who is from the West Bank, helped plan campus protests last year against the war in Gaza. He has a green card, but his attorneys claim immigration officials set up a trap as part of a plan to deport him.

Now the court is seeking more information from Mahdawi's attorneys and from the Department of Justice. Let's talk about this now with Mahdawi's attorney, Hillary Rich. She's the senior staff attorney for the ACLU of Vermont.

Hillary, thanks for being with us. And first off, how much was Mr. Mahdawi anticipating that this citizenship appointment would end in detention because he had told CBS he was worried about a quote, honey trap, as he put it?

HILLARY RICH, ATTORNEY FOR MOHSEN MAHDAWI: Yes, Mr. Mahdawi was aware of the trend and the pattern that the Trump administration has been showing of retaliating against non-citizen students for their protected speech. He has seen this happen to fellow students, and now he was right to be concerned that the same unlawful actions would apply against him at his interview.

KEILAR: He hasn't been charged yet. Do you know what he'll be charged with or when?

RICH: At this point, the government has submitted absolutely no evidence that Mohsen has committed any crime. There's no allegation that any crime has been committed. All that we see in the record before us is the basis for this unlawful detention was Mohsen's protected speech.

The record -- there's an absence in the record of any evidence of any criminal behavior. But what we do have in the record instead are 94 letters of support from Mohsen's friends, community members, neighbors and colleagues that were submitted on his behalf to attest to his good character and to cry out against his detention.

The judge in this case claimed that the volume and breadth of these letters were really striking, both in terms of the amount and also the range of folks who submitted support on behalf of Mohsen.

KEILAR: He's clearly very much part of the community there. As you mentioned, to hold your client, the government is citing something we've become familiar with. It's a Cold War era law, the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, which essentially says the secretary of state can revoke a person's immigration status if their beliefs, statements or associations would compromise U.S. foreign policy interests, even if those beliefs, statements and associations are otherwise lawful.

Do Mr. Mahdawi's beliefs, statements and associations compromise foreign policy interests if the Trump administration's interests are in supporting Israel's policy in Gaza, controversial as it is?

RICH: You know, the government does not have discretion to violate the Constitution. And this kind of political speech that Mohsen was engaging in is at the absolute core of the First Amendment and the protections that we hold really dear in this country. As you said, he was apprehended at the conclusion of his naturalization interview, which is part of the process to become a U.S. citizen. As part of that interview, Mohsen signed a document vowing to uphold the Constitution and laws of the United States. And then immediately at the end of that interview, he was arrested by armed, masked agents because he exercised those very constitutional rights. It's truly dystopian.

KEILAR: So then is your position that this law is unconstitutional? Is it how the law is being used is unconstitutional?

RICH: I think any interpretation of a law that gives a president the authority to violate the Constitution simply cannot stand. This is a nation of laws and the president is not above the rule of law either. So if the government is unclear, you know how the government intends to move forward in this case, we're expecting another hearing on Wednesday next week. Additional briefing will be coming on Monday. But no one has discretion, not even the president, to violate our constitutional rights. And those First Amendment protections that we hold dear in this country also apply to non-citizens.

The First Amendment extends to people who were not born here and extends to speech, even if the government doesn't like.

KEILAR: Yes, certainly. That's that's part of why it's there for all speech.

[15:45:00]

Vermont state Senate Democrats are actually calling on the governor there, Phil Scott, to end the state's agreement with federal immigration authorities. It currently expires in August. It's something that allows feds to detain people who are not charged with crimes in Vermont prisons.

There are some advocates, though, who are arguing it's actually better for those who are detained to stay in Vermont rather than being transferred to ICE facilities and say someplace like Louisiana, which we have seen where they may certainly see an outcome that is worse for them personally. What do you think is the right path?

RICH: I think that no matter where you are detained, if you are being detained on the basis of your free speech, that is a constitutional violation. Whether that detention occurs in Vermont or Louisiana, that is unlawful and an unlawful violation of your rights that the government is committing against you. Every day that Mohsen is being detained is a violation of his rights.

It hurts his ability to speak and it sends a message to other speakers that is really in violation of everyone's First Amendment freedoms.

KEILAR: Hillary Rich, thank you so much. The attorney for Mohsen Mahdawi, we do appreciate you being with us.

RICH: Thank you for having me.

KEILAR: Some compelling testimony today in the retrial of Karen Read, the woman accused of causing the death of her Boston police officer boyfriend in 2022. We'll have that next.

[15:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: We're following some new developments in the murder retrial of Karen Read, the woman accused of murdering her police officer boyfriend, John O'Keefe. Today, jurors were shown text messages between Read and O'Keefe just hours before he died. They were also shown clips from a documentary, a piece of evidence that was not allowed in the first trial.

CNN's Jean Casarez has been tracking the latest for us. So, Jean, take us through the details.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Boris, brand new to this trial are all of these interview clips that Karen Read has given since the retrial -- before the retrial. But the new prosecutor, special prosecutor, wanted to bring them in and he has been allowed to do it. And there were multiple clips at the end of the day today that the judge allowed the jury to see statements against her interests.

But the bulk of the day were these text messages. And I think there were more than 50 of them because the prosecutor said in opening statements, the evidence is going to show you that they had been dating for a couple of years, but they were fighting, constantly fighting. And the relationship was really coming to an end and that John wanted out of the relationship.

Let's show some of these texts here that the jury saw to show you what I'm talking about. First of all, Karen Read says -- and this is at two thirty in the afternoon on January 28th, and it is hours before he is dead. It's very close in time.

She says: Last night, you're basically like, yeah what about when we talk about the future? So why don't you just admit you're not into so much anymore? Can you please admit your head is out of the game with us?

And then John replies: Sick of always arguing and fighting. It's been weekly for several months now. So, yeah, I'm not as quick to jump back into being lovie dovie as you are, apparently.

After that, Karen Read calls John. Defendant calls John. He rejects the whole phone call.

And there are many times she called him constantly for those hours in that afternoon and he would reject the phone call.

So, Boris, the prosecutor has referred to her car as a deadly weapon in opening statements. This was the deadly weapon was her car.

And, of course, what they're alleging is that she put it in reverse, hit him. He fell, had a skull fracture and died after that.

Defense obviously arguing that he went into this house where there was an after party. There was a fight and his police officer friends hit him to the point that his head was cracked open and they put him out on the front lawn to die.

But the prosecutor is trying to show motive here because what would motivate her to put that car in reverse after he got out of the car? They're trying to show that anger that was building up in her from that afternoon is what was motivated her to do the act of backing that car up.

So that won't come to a closing arguments, but there's relevance for everything that they're putting in.

SANCHEZ: And, Jean, I understand that jurors are set to take a field trip tomorrow.

CASAREZ: Yes, they absolutely are. Both sides agreed to it. They are going to where the house is, where prosecutors say the crime scene is.

And they're going to be able to look at the house, the flagpole, the street where they have been shown in court that the body was found. They will assess for themselves, but then they'll have a visualization as this trial continues for the next six to eight weeks.

SANCHEZ: Jean Casarez, thank you so much for bringing us the latest there.

So when we come back, it could mean all the cheese sandwiches your heart desires, how you could own the infamous Fyre Festival.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Let the bidding war begin. The organizer and founder of the infamous Fyre Festival is, for some reason, putting the brand up for sale.

KEILAR: Yes, you probably remember that big event back in 2017. Billed as a luxury experience for the ages. I mean, it kind of was. A total dud, though. Cheese sandwich, anyone? A sequel apparently still in the works -- question mark.

But now, organizer Billy McFarland says it's too big for one person to handle, so he needs help. And as part of the sale, he is offering up the name, intellectual property, trademarks, and an unspecified Caribbean festival location that he says is ready to host Fyre Festival 2, which is interesting.

[16:00:00]

SANCHEZ: We should mention he did go to prison for fraud after the first one.

KEILAR: Yes, that's right.

SANCHEZ: There's that.

KEILAR: There's that. And then he said it was in one place, and then he said it was in another place. And it appears now that it's not actually in either place.

SANCHEZ: But listen, it might still happen, and they need people to perform. So Brianna and I will be there, if you want us, for a reasonable fee.

KEILAR: I'm doing a Raygun demo. It's more of like a performative performance art thing.

SANCHEZ: Shout out to Raygun, wherever she is.

Thanks so much for joining us this afternoon. "THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunt starts right now.

END