Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Trump Says He Has Made 200 Trade Deals; FBI Director Says Wisconsin Judge Arrested For Allegedly Obstructing ICE; Ex-GOP Rep. George Santos Sentenced To More Than Seven Years In Federal Fraud Case; Trump Envoy, Putin Meet After New Russian Strikes On Ukraine; Senior Russian General Killed In Car Blast Near Moscow; Trump Says Crimea Will Stay With Russia; Trump Says U.S. Pretty Close On Russia- Ukraine Peace Deal; Trump, China Can't Agree If Trade Talks Are Happening. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 25, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:01:10]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: A Milwaukee judge under arrest, the FBI charging her with obstruction, accusing her of helping an undocumented immigrant avoid arrest. We have the latest on this case.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Sentencing for George Santos, the disgraced former Congressman learning his fate after a trial on federal fraud charges, a prosecutor saying he rose to office on a "wave of lies." Plus, President Trump says he's already made 200 trade deals, but the one deal that he and the U.S. economy needs most with China is still on his to-do list, the latest on the economy and the increasing dread of many Americans that a recession is around the corner. We're following these major developing stories in many more, all coming in right here to "CNN News Central."

SANCHEZ: It is the top of the hour. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm Boris Sanchez alongside Brianna Keilar in our nation's capital, and we are continuing to follow breaking news out of Wisconsin. The FBI arresting a Milwaukee County Circuit judge for allegedly obstructing ICE. FBI agents are accusing Judge Hannah Dugan of helping an undocumented immigrant avoid arrest.

KEILAR: That judge briefly appeared in federal court a short time ago before being released from custody. Just moments ago, Attorney General Pam Bondi defended the arrest and lashed out at the judge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAM BONDI, (R) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: She put the lives of our law enforcement officers at risk. She put the lives of citizens at risk, a street chase which is absurd that that had to happen. But yes, she put a lot of people at danger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you dug into their motive? Like what inspired them to carry out these acts and harbor criminals? BONDI: They're deranged is all I can think of. I cannot believe, I think some of these judges think they are beyond and above the law, and they are not. And we're sending a very strong message today. If you are harboring a fugitive, we don't care who you are. If you are helping hide one, if you are giving a TDA member guns, anyone who is illegally in this country, we will come after you and we will prosecute you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN's Whitney Wild is live for us outside the federal courthouse in Milwaukee. Whitney, what is the latest about what led up to what is an unusual arrest?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, this unsealed court document really describes how this all started April 18th when law enforcement says that there was an undocumented migrant who was supposed to appear in front of Judge Dugan on battery charges. There were six federal agents who were there. They intended to arrest this undocumented migrant as he was coming out of that courtroom. So they intended to stay in the hallway and arrest him when he re-entered this larger public space in the courthouse.

When Judge Dugan, according to the FBI, learned that there were these federal agents there to try to arrest this man who was supposed to appear in front of her, she became very agitated. She actually left the courtroom. They believed she went to her chambers. Later on, she had a call with the chief judge, and they discussed with the agents that they were not to enter any private areas of the courthouse. And further, insisted that these agents only effectuate this arrest in a public area.

And so, that undocumented migrant's hearing went on in front of Judge Dugan. And what the FBI says happened was, she said -- they say that she directed the undocumented migrant and his attorney to use the jury door, which would have allowed them to enter a non-private, non-public area, or otherwise, a private area of the courthouse, which would've made it harder for the agents who were there to try to arrest this man. So when they saw the undocumented migrant and his attorney walking briskly toward the elevator bank, those agents scrambled to try to arrest him.

[14:05:00]

They confronted him. This undocumented migrant ran. They were eventually able to arrest him. But what you heard very clearly from Attorney General Pam Bondi is that they believe that these actions were a clear obstruction of justice, that she intended to have this man evade law enforcement. And while this is an escalation, certainly, it is not surprising given that this administration has made very clear from the outset that they will not allow anyone to stand in their way when they perceive there's any kind of obstruction in their effort to enforce these immigration laws, Boris and Brianna.

SANCHEZ: Whitney Wild, live for us outside the Federal Courthouse in Milwaukee. Thank you so much for that. With us to discuss these developments is Harry Litman. He's a former U.S. attorney. And also joining us is John Miller, CNN's Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst.

KEILAR: That's right. And John, to you, what do you think of the government's explanation here of what happened, and what they're saying about the judge's actions, and what led up to this arrest?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So, this is clearly an escalation in the clash of powers where federal usually supersedes local constitutionally. But we're seeing that come to a head here. Here is a team that shows up with an administrative warrant to arrest someone who is in a criminal proceeding before a state judge. So the state judge, basically, allows the person out the back door while they have most of the agents tied up with the chief judge explaining why they're there.

This is a clash we've seen in different iterations. Jails receive detainers from ICE saying to hold somebody, but the questions are, well, can we hold somebody after their jail time is up here indefinitely for ICE? This brings it to a whole different level though. When you're arresting a sitting state judge for basically harboring a fugitive and obstruction of justice, the two charges are interfering with a government operation and concealing an individual to prevent discovery or arrest. You're really up the ante here. And this is a clash that has come to a new level.

SANCHEZ: Harry, how should Judge Dugan have handled the situation where ICE shows up to her courtroom?

HARRY LITMAN, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: This is her courtroom, Boris, and she's in control of her courtroom. We've never had a case like this. The only one that resembles it is one in which the judge took actual steps to deceive and prevent ICE from coming in. She handled it and said, look, if you want to make an arrest, don't do it in my courtroom. Don't exploit it. You can do it on the street.

There's no principle that says she has to somehow aid them in their facilitation of the arrest of this man. I think, I agree it's a real escalation, but I think it's hyperbolic at best to say she was harboring a fugitive. She was saying, not in my courtroom. And I think this is not just an aggressive, but probably an overaggressive move by the bureau. My best guess is that this case is going to collapse because you need to have corrupt intent. It's not just enough to not want him to be arrested. You need to have corrupt intent under federal law.

And it's one thing if you do positive steps to deceive, but simply to say, well, you're in my courtroom. You can exit here, enter here, and he's still arrested. I don't think they're going to be able to show it. And in any event, it is an extremely aggressive move against a sitting state judge.

KEILAR: Harry, can we just talk about how many layers of norms are being broken here? Because you have the immigration crackdown, that's abnormal. You have -- look, even folks like you who have questioned or have pointed out, it's not necessarily normal how the judge responded. That's abnormal though, right? That she might say, Hey, here's a side door. This is sort of how the government has explained it happening. It's also abnormal that the acting attorney general would go on a cable news program and malign a judge in an active case as deranged. What do you think about just these layers of norms being broken?

LITMAN: Yeah. And not just malign, but really suggest that she is the equivalent of harboring a fugitive and giving them weapons and the like, so multiple norms. I think you're really right to point that out. We can say at a minimum, without doubt, this is something that wouldn't have happened before there. The -- even the previous prosecution I mentioned was brought by the Trump administration in 2019 and then dismissed by the Justice Department after.

But this kind of flexing of muscles, I think is really -- they arrested him after all.

[14:10:00]

I think it's really meant to show state authorities generally, including a judge, who has certain levels of judicial immunity, don't you try to get in the way of our efforts, when getting in the way is perilously close to not doing everything you can to hand someone over, and that is not the law. So it's a change in the law, but certainly, as you say, a complete abrogation of the norms we've always had. You don't arrest sitting state judges on these kinds of threadbare charges.

SANCHEZ: We are getting reaction from the mayor of Milwaukee. Here is Mayor Cavalier Johnson. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR CAVALIER JOHNSON, (D) MILWAUKEE: I don't know all the things that happened there, but I'm said that (ph) the way that they went about this in this haphazard way that this administration has been doing since day one. It's driving people away or has the potential to drive people away from participating in court proceedings, which makes our community less safe.

I want people to go to court. I want people to, have their day in court. I want people to hold folks accountable in our judicial system, but the actions of this administration are driving people away from doing that, and that's not good for public safety in Milwaukee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: John, quickly, I wanted to get your thoughts, your reaction to what you just heard there from the mayor and the approach by the administration and Harry's argument.

MILLER: So I think this case is going to hang on the agreements they had, so the agreements they have in Milwaukee and the reason that they like to arrest people in court is, that means they've already been through security screening. We know they're not armed. When you take them into custody, you're likely to have them in a controlled space. The deal they had in Milwaukee with the Feds was that they wouldn't arrest anybody who was here illegally, who was there to be a witness or was the victim of a crime.

But if they were a defendant and they were in a public area, they could pick them up. In this case, the case is going to hang on. The judge re-engineered the system, so that he would not come out into the public area which would've been the norm and created a circumstance where he left through a non-public area for only authorized people. So that's where the line, I think, in terms of the charging of her is, that she took affirmative steps to make their arrest difficult, if not impossible to effect, and yet they did it anyway.

KEILAR: Yeah, it is certainly strange and something to be analyzed here. John Miller, Harry Litman, thank you to both of you. Really appreciate it. Also in court today, disgrace former Congressman George Santos. He was just sentenced to more than seven years in prison, 87 months to be exact, and he has three months to surrender to begin serving his time.

SANCHEZ: The New York Republican pleaded guilty last year to identity theft and wire fraud charges. Let's go to CNN's Brynn Gingras, who joins us with the details. And Brynn, you were inside the courtroom today for the sentencing. How did it go down? How did Santos respond?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I mean, it was quite dramatic, Boris and Brianna. I got to tell you, the judge in this case, the federal judge expressing some real disappointment in George Santos before handing down this sentence. Essentially saying that he's fully deserving of the sentence that she was about to give him. And when she did add up the total of 87 months, which is what the prosecution was requesting in this case, George Santos put his hands over his face and he was just sobbing in court.

The judge really a sticking point for her was that she said he really has not expressed any remorse. She said she's looked through all the paperwork that she had in front of her. She listened to him, and she just does not believe he feels any guilt, even though he pled guilty to two crimes for defrauding mostly tons of people.

One of the things that was interesting that did come up in court today was the fact that he made over $360,000 with cameo appearances, with documentary appearances, going on podcasts. And the judge says, I find it incredible that you didn't even set up a savings account to begin the process of paying back these people that you defrauded. So that was a major moment that the judge was really sticking to before she handed down that sentence.

Now, George Santos did get a moment to address the judge before she handed out the sentence and he was crying during that brief statement that he had written out, essentially saying that he felt bad about what happened, that he know that he lost the trust of so many people, but really it was not enough. Now, I want you to hear from interview he did prior to this sentencing where he talks about the possibility of going to jail. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE SANTOS, FORMER GOP REPRESENTATIVE, (R-NY): If you look at the matters of everything I stood for in Congress and the type of people that we're targeting now that are already in custody, it's exactly the same people. So, it's like putting a hen in the foxhole. So, I just think that the appropriate thing to do would be protective custody, so that would equate to solitary confinement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:15:00]

GINGRAS: Now, this is something that he actually had his lawyers was like tapping him to say, please ask for protective custody. But the judge did not think it was necessary to request protective custody. It's unclear exactly what federal prison he will go to, but he does report and will surrender to begin the 87 month sentence on July 25th, guys.

SANCHEZ: Wow. Stunning developments there. Brynn Gingras, thank you so much. Still to come, President Trump says he's closed 200 deals on trade. We will inspect that claim a bit closer.

KEILAR: Yes. Plus, we have some new details about peace talks between Russia and Ukraine. Turns out European leaders have come up with their own proposal. It is different from what the U.S. has asked Russia and Ukraine to sign on to.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:20:26]

KEILAR: Today, U.S. Special Envoy Steve Witkoff just wrapped up his meeting in Moscow with Russian President Vladimir Putin amid White House efforts to end the war with Ukraine. A senior Kremlin negotiator called the discussion, "constructive and very useful," and said they discussed resuming direct talks between Russia and Ukraine, something that hasn't happened in years.

But the face-to-face comes just hours after another round of deadly Russian attacks across Ukraine and after a senior Russian General was killed in a car bombing less than 20 miles from Moscow. In a new interview with Time, president Trump said he still thinks the U.S. can get a peace deal finalized, but to achieve it, he says Crimea will stay with Russia. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has repeatedly rejected that idea, saying that his country's constitution forbids it, which it does.

CNN Chief International Security Correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is with us now. Nick, what is the latest on these peace negotiations?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, as you said, according to (inaudible) a presidential aide, he described that Witkoff's three-hour meeting with Vladimir Putin as constructive and very useful. It's clear Witkoff would've brought with him the kind of results of negotiations in London earlier on this week, in which a European version of a peace proposal shared by the Ukrainians met and was aligned potentially with Witkoff's own version. Witkoff, it seems would like to see Crimea recognized by the United States. Ukraine agreed to not join NATO, potentially sanctions lifted against Russia, along with the freezing of the frontlines according to one official I spoke to. The Europeans would like to see a ceasefire first, then territorial discussions and some pretty solid security guarantees from the West for Ukraine.

What exactly went to President Trump's desk after that London meeting? President Zelenskyy of Ukraine said that a document went to the White House from it. And what from that went to Moscow? We don't know. What's key though, Brianna, is to hear the Russians suggesting, well, hang on a minute, let's change the format of these talks again and make them direct Kyiv-Moscow conversations. That will be very hard, potentially to get Kyiv to immediately agree to. It'll take more time.

That may delay the results that Donald Trump so urgently wants. He said today he felt that they were pretty close, some kind of deal. He had been talking about walking out days ago if he hadn't got results in days. He's spoken of a deadline, but not exactly when it is now. There's clear pressure here from the Americans to make something happen, but that doesn't seem to necessarily be altering the behavior of the Russians. Frankly, the deal they seem to be looking at now just seems to get sweeter and sweeter, Brianna.

KEILAR: And Nick, since you are someone who has spent years covering this war from the frontlines, just fact check for us this suggestion from President Trump. Not a suggestion, he said Russia's making a major concession. This was what he said, by not taking all of the country.

PATON WALSH: Yeah, look, I mean, in multiple years ahead, if American aid dries up entirely, if European aid falters, if there's political change and a loss of morale in Ukraine, it's possible Russia could take even more of Ukraine. But the reason the frontlines are ones now of attrition where tiny gains by each side are only made back and forth, is because Russia simply was not able to affect the weeks-long invasion of the whole country that led it to that foolhardy move back in February 2022.

It simply was sold by its generals, the Kremlin that is, the idea this would be easy. It wasn't. Ukraine fought back and Russia back then thought to be the third strongest military in the world simply couldn't affect what it thought it could. It's got a lot better now and the dynamics, according to some U.S. military assessments are very much in Russia's favor. They're building weaponry faster. They still don't have recruitment problems on the same scale Ukraine potentially does. And in the wider picture, the United States clearly is faltering as an ally to Ukraine here.

But Donald Trump always seems to slide back towards a more pro-Russian narrative at times. It's unclear where these talking points, so many of them, friendly to the Kremlin necessarily get into the White House. But I think what he's holding out there potentially is both the possibility that if the U.S. were to walk away, Russia could take yet more ground, but also potentially to the notion that Russia is some superior force that inevitably will find some kind of wider victory here, Brianna.

KEILAR: Yeah. Good perspective there. Nick Paton Walsh, thank you very much.

[14:25:00] The Trump administration promised 90 trade deals in 90 days. The president claiming they've made 200 in just over two weeks. We'll have that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: We are now in a confusing new stalemate in President Trump's trade war with China. The two largest economies in the world can't even agree if talks are actually even happening. Trump is also now refusing to say whether or not President Xi has called him since he slapped new tariffs on China. He was asked twice to clarify this morning though, he refused to say. He did tell Time Magazine this, "I'm dealing with other companies, very friendly countries. We're meeting with China. We're doing fine with everybody.