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Trump to The Atlantic: I Think Hegseth Will Get It Together; Harvard, Trump Face Off in Court Over Threats to Cut Federal Funds; 60 Minutes Criticizes Paramount Over Executive Producer Exit. Aired 1:30- 2p ET

Aired April 28, 2025 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

REP. WARREN DAVIDSON (R-OH): ... around him. There's still confirmations we're waiting on. For example, the Undersecretary for Personnel and Readiness. Hopefully, we'll get that confirmation soon, and we can help staff appropriately.

This is a big part about what Pete Hegseth brought to the table in confirmation, is I want my personnel focused on fighting and winning wars, not some ideological agenda. And part of that is getting his team confirmed.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yes, climate change is undeniably affecting national security, with the Arctic expected to open up more. And that's obviously a focus of the Defense Department big time, along with a number of other things.

DAVIDSON: Founding member of Greenland Caucus, it's big.

KEILAR: We'll have to talk about that some other time, and I look forward to it. Congressman Davidson, thank you so much.

DAVIDSON: Thanks, Brianna.

KEILAR: Coming up, the nation's oldest university taking on the Trump administration. A court date has just been set in the case concerning a federal funding freeze against Harvard.

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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Oral arguments are set for July 21st in the legal showdown between the Trump administration and the nation's oldest university. Lawyers for Harvard and the Trump administration this morning appeared for their first court hearing over a multi- billion dollar federal funding freeze. The school sued the government for halting federal research grants to the tune of more than $2 billion.

Tensions between the two have been escalating since the Trump administration gave Harvard a broad list of demands, including changes to its admissions, hiring, and DEI policies.

Laurence Tribe is the university professor of constitutional law emeritus at Harvard Law School, and he joins us now live. Sir, thanks so much for being with us.

You are confident, you say, that Harvard will win this lawsuit. I wonder what happens if it doesn't. What does it mean?

LAURENCE TRIBE, HARVARD CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR: Well, I'm not going to speculate about something that isn't going to happen. There are 16 weeks between now and the hearing. Even if the government had 16 years to prepare a defense, they don't have one.

It's not just about the billions of dollars the government is withholding. Harvard doesn't claim any entitlement to money. It's saying that you can't use the threat of withholding money that is coming to the teaching hospitals and the research programs. You can't use that in order to impose your agenda on a private institution like a university. Telling them what to teach, whom to teach, how to teach, whom to hire as faculty members, what to think.

That's not the American way. Our Constitution guarantees a freedom of speech and certainly academic freedom for private institutions.

If the government could do that, then it could threaten, you know, worse. It could threaten you to raise your income taxes unless you toe the line and say things that Trump and MAGA like. That's so obviously illegal as well as unconstitutional that I'm confident Harvard will win.

It doesn't need the 16 weeks. The government can't do it, as I said, in 16 years.

SANCHEZ: So there was a self-proclaimed conservative professor at Harvard who wrote a piece for the Wall Street Journal. And I want to get your reaction to one specific portion of it.

He writes, quote, My progressive colleagues were fine with federal influence on Harvard so long as it furthered what they saw as just causes such as diversity and equity. Now that their research budgets are being held hostage to the demands of an unfriendly White House, left-leaning faculty are starting to appreciate anew the value of freedom from government mandates.

I wonder if you agree with James Hankins.

TRIBE: Well, I don't really know Mr. Hankins or Professor Hankins or how good a historian he is. But he's not a very good analyst of these legal issues because it's not a matter of left-leaning or right- leaning professors being happy with conditions as long as they're pleased with the direction in which they lean. It's simply that when the money that was appropriated by Congress, not by any president, was conditioned on Harvard complying with anti-discrimination rules and with rules about including rather than excluding people, Congress had every right to impose those requirements in Title VI and elsewhere, and Harvard was happy to comply.

When the president, usurping the power of the purse, says that he doesn't care about what Congress says, he wants to yank the money from teaching hospitals, from programs that do heart research and cancer research, from programs that help defend the nation by making discoveries in physics, yank all of those monies in violation of the federal laws governing these grants, unless Harvard basically lies down and plays dead, basically says, Donald Trump, you can be president of Harvard.

But that's not the way it works. That's not even remotely the way it works. And this historian doesn't seem to address the issues. He's just whistling Dixie.

[13:40:00]

SANCHEZ: So I wonder when it comes to addressing the issues, whether you would agree with someone like Nicholas Kristof. He is a former overseer of Harvard. We spoke to him last week, and he concedes that critics of elite universities have a point that universities should have been more forthright about anti-Semitism, Islamophobia. He argues that some campuses have become inhospitable to ideological diversity.

Do you think that Harvard is doing enough right now to reflect those issues?

TRIBE: Well, I think Nick Kristof does have a point that we could always do better. So could everybody. But the idea that Harvard is a hotbed of anti-Semitism, which is what the president is claiming, is nonsense.

Certainly, the president, who went out of his way to say that there are good people on both sides when there was a Nazi march, is hardly the voice of anti-Semitism. And it is true that Harvard could be more hospitable than it already is to various viewpoints. But the way to improve that is to keep moving in the direction that Harvard has been moving.

I've been among those who have said that students who protest peacefully, even if they're protesting on the Palestinian side, ought to be protected. And the president of Harvard has agreed. So I'm not sure where the gripe comes from.

It may be that when Nick Kristof was a member of the board of overseers, that things were not as good as they are now. But I think Harvard is doing a pretty good job. And the judge, Allison Burroughs, who graduated, by the way, from Pennsylvania Law School rather than Harvard, is really a brilliant jurist. And I think she'll give everybody a fair shake.

SANCHEZ: Laurence Tribe, we have to leave the conversation there. Very much appreciate your time.

TRIBE: Thanks, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

Still to come, a power blackout hitting Spain and Portugal, with flights grounded, trains halted, and firefighters saying they've made close to 200 elevator interventions just in Madrid alone. The latest from Europe in just moments. [13:45:00]

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KEILAR: A power outage in Europe is causing chaos in two countries. From the air to underneath the earth, electric companies in Spain and Portugal have been able to restore some of the power that went out close to seven hours ago.

Portugal's grid operator said production has been restored at two power plants. With those stations now active, the grid is gradually coming back online in Portugal, first in areas surrounding those power plants, progressively farther away from them.

In the meantime, Spain's grid operator said electricity has been restored in several regions. When the power went out earlier, those streetlights, they just went dead in the middle of traffic.

Air travelers were stranded and train lines, including those underground metro stations, were shut down. This is video showing passengers evacuating a cable car in northern Spain. You see them there on the track.

The outage hit the entire Iberian Peninsula with some brief blackouts in France. Spain's prime minister said there's no conclusive information on what caused the power outage. He's urging the public to avoid speculation at this point -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Taking a look at some of the other headlines we're following this hour.

We have new video from Clearwater, Florida, of a hit and run boat crash. Watch this spot in the drop shadow. A boat comes way too fast into the intercoastal there and collides with a ferry. Police say that vessel was carrying 45 people, mostly families coming back from a sculpting competition. The crash killed at least one person on the ferry, sending another dozen to the hospital. The boat and all six people on board fled the scene. Police have not yet announced any charges.

We're also getting some new details on the upcoming conclave that will pick Pope Francis's successor. The Vatican says cardinals will begin the secretive selection process on May 7th at the Sistine Chapel.

The Vatican has now closed that historic landmark while it makes arrangements, including installing that famous chimney that indicates to the world when a new pope has been named.

And finally, police in Germany have now launched a murder investigation for a best-selling author. Family members found Alexandra Frohlich dead inside her Hamburg houseboat. The 58-year-old author was well known for her books, including "There's Always Someone Dying" and "Skeletons in the Closet." Police have not yet revealed if they have any suspects.

And still to come, the host of 60 Minutes offering a stunning rebuke of CBS's parent company, his message, and why he felt the need to make it right after this. Stay with us.

[13:50:00]

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SANCHEZ: 60 Minutes turned the spotlight on itself last night in an eye-opening response to the exit of its longtime executive producer, Bill Owens. Scott Pelley, the show's anchor, addressed the departure saying, quote, no one is happy.

He revealed that CBS' parent company, Paramount, is now supervising the show's content, ultimately prompting Owens' decision to step down.

CNN's Hadas Gold joins us now live with the details. Hadas, tell us more about what Pelley said.

HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Boris, this was a very unusual and very blunt. It was an act of defiance and also a show of solidarity. But it goes to show the gravity of what's happening not only to CBS, but to so many companies who are feeling the direct pressure from President Trump.

Now, let's rewind a little bit. Donald Trump is suing CBS, claiming that 60 Minutes deceptively edited an interview with Kamala Harris before the election. Now any legal expert you talk to says it is completely meritless.

But at the same time, CBS' parent company, Paramount, is trying to complete a merger with Skydance. And that merger requires federal approval. So now there are reports that Paramount owner, Shari Redstone, wants to settle this lawsuit, as so many other companies have.

We've seen ABC. We've seen Facebook do this. They want to settle this and get it off their backs. And for Paramount and for Redstone, that is because of this merger.

[13:55:00]

So then last week, executive producer of 60 Minutes, longtime executive producer, very well-respected, very well-liked, he stunned the staffers of 60 Minutes by saying that he was resigning, citing directly that pressure from Paramount that you talked about, and saying that he felt he needed to step aside to let the show continue as it should.

Take a listen to Scott Pelley.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT PELLEY, ANCHOR, 60 MINUTES: Our parent company, Paramount, is trying to complete a merger. The Trump administration must approve it. Paramount began to supervise our content in new ways.

None of our stories has been blocked, but Bill felt he lost the independence that honest journalism requires. No one here is happy about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLD: Now, this is all part, of course, Trump's efforts to bend his perceived adversaries to his will. And he's completely transparent about it. I want to put up a quote from his interview with "The Atlantic."

He said, You know, at some point they give up, he said -- referring to media owners generally. And they suspected Washington Post owner Jeff Bezos. At some point, they say, no mas, no mas. And he laughed quietly.

You know, Boris, I think that "The Guardian" said this really well when they wrote about the situation at CBS. He said, it is a stunning battle for the soul of U.S. media -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Well, Hadas Gold, thank you so much for the update there.

So nearly 100 days into his second term, President Trump's polling numbers have dropped to the lowest level of any newly elected president in at least seven decades. We dig into the numbers in just a few minutes.

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