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Jobs Report to be Released Soon; Rubio Now Holds Four Top Federal Government Positions; White House Under Pressure to Cut Trade Deals as Economic Anxiety Builds; Intel Suggests Putin's Goals for Ukraine War May Have Shifted; Judge Bars Trump From Using Alien Enemies Act for Some Deportations. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired May 02, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Immersed into an online world that, you know, we've spent 20, 30 years slowly adjusting into from dial-up internet to broadband to now AI and apps and extraordinary smartphones like this that dictate almost everything you do all day long. For them it all happened, boom, in literally one hour and I think it was a wake-up call for us coming from the outside world to come in and learn as much really about our online habits as what this was doing to their so far isolated world that's at great risk now too of Starlink being used to speed up the plunder of logging and other things too, Omar.

JIMENEZ: OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR: It's great perspective to sort of talk about that gradual push to this immediate one. Send me your notes by the way on dial-up internet and fax machines, we really appreciate learning how to use one of those. Nick Paton Walsh, thanks for being here, looking forward to seeing the story.

"THE WIRED RAINFOREST" airs Sunday 8 p.m. Eastern and Pacific.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So we are standing by for the April jobs report set to come out this hour and this is the first report since the Liberation Day tariffs set in, which is why everyone is watching this very closely.

And Mike Waltz is out as national security advisor but nominated to be the next U.S. ambassador to the U.N. What this will mean for President Trump's inner circle and national security going forward.

And the legal blow to Trump from a judge he appointed. The Texas judge labeling the president's use of a wartime law to quickly deport migrants, labeling that as unlawful.

I'm Kate Bolduan with Omar Jimenez today. Sara and John are out this morning. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

JIMENEZ: All right, we are watching for the April jobs report to be released very soon and economists expect it will likely reflect the uncertainty that's been rampant among business owners since President Trump started his tariff war. Now, economists are forecasting the economy adding 135,000 jobs last month and that the unemployment rate will stand firm at 4.2 percent. If that forecast holds, that growth would be far slower than the stronger than expected gains of 228,000 jobs we saw in the March report. But economists are also expecting March's numbers to be revised down.

The jobs report also comes as alarm bells have been flashing about the U.S. economy overall. Consumer sentiment dropping, recession fears climbing, and the Trump administration has slashed jobs across multiple agencies, placed a hiring freeze on the federal workforce and canceled massive amounts of grants and contracts.

All right, a lot to get to here.

Joining us now is Colby Smith, Federal Reserve Correspondent at the New York Times. Colby, I guess let's just start with what we're expecting to see from these jobs numbers and sort of the context around how we should look at these numbers.

COLBY SMITH, FEDERAL RESERVE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: So as you mentioned, it's about 135,000 jobs expected for this past month. And I think what's important to note about that is, yes, it is slower, but it also is not, you know, a complete, you know, cracking of the labor market that's underway here.

I think the problem that we're facing right now is that every data point that we get, people are trying to say, extrapolate, does this show weakness to come? Or is this a vestige of a past, you know, stronger economy before these tariffs kicked in? So this is one of those first key reports where we cover a period where the most intense tariffs have been put in place. And there's been a lot of volatility around that.

So economists are going to be watching this very closely.

JIMENEZ: So let's just talk about those data points really quickly, because this would be another data point combined with, you know, the tariffs being implemented, maybe confidence in the bond market, also interest rates. We're keeping an eye on those. I mean, just how significant is this data point and how should we contextualize it?

SMITH: It's pretty important because the labor market is the kind of central decision point for the Federal Reserve in terms of when it's going to think about lowering interest rates. What they have said repeatedly is that they need to see signs of weakness before they feel comfortable moving forward with additional interest rate cuts. They meet next week.

They're largely expected to kind of keep interest rates at current levels. But if today's report shows real signs of weakness, it could start to, you know, increase the drumbeat of support internally for there to be a larger conversation about what they need to do about cuts, because at some point, all signs are pointing to a weakening economy here. And it's just about how quickly that starts to show up in the data. JIMENEZ: And again, we're waiting on those numbers that should come before the end of the hour, and then there'll be another significant data point in sort of this wider economic picture. Colby, really appreciate you being here. Thank you for taking the time.

SMITH: Thanks.

JIMENEZ: Kate.

[08:05:00]

BOLDUAN: So the shakeup and the fallout, or a growing mess and the cleaning up, that kind of is the question and the choice today after President Trump's first major staffing shakeup since he returned to the White House. In the role of national security advisor, Mike Waltz is out, and Secretary of State Marco Rubio is in, at least temporarily. Waltz was ousted after he mistakenly added a reporter into a Signal group chat discussing sensitive military plans to strike Yemen, but everyone around there says there was much more than just that.

Trump now says that he wants Mike Waltz as the U.N. ambassador. And for Marco Rubio, this is actually the fourth now leadership job in the Trump government that he's taking on all at once, including his roles as Secretary of State and as the acting chief of both the National Archives and USAID. But the news, though, seemed to take the State Department by surprise when CNN's Kylie Atwood asked about this now new role during the briefing yesterday.

Kylie's joining us right now with much more on that. It was quite a moment to be playing out there in the briefing room. What more are you hearing, though?

Are you getting more answers now of what this actually means for the Secretary of State and how he is going to handle all of these jobs?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, this building is hustling to figure that out, Kate. That is what Rubio and his top aides are going to have to determine, really, over the course of the next few days and weeks here as it plays out. We should note that the role of Secretary of State and the role of National Security Advisor are inherently very different roles.

One is America's top diplomat, a very public role on the world stage. And the other one is the president's closest advisor when it comes to formulating his foreign policy and when it comes to convening the interagency to make sure that they are following through on those foreign policy goals. So Rubio is now tasked with both of those.

It's important to note that even before he became the acting National Security Advisor, he had already placed a premium on spending time at the White House, spending time with President Trump, because as folks in this administration know, being close to Trump is everything when it comes to just how critical your role becomes within his inner circle. But it was clear yesterday that not everyone in this building knew

that this news was going to come at this time. It happened during the State Department briefing when I actually read to the spokesperson here, Tammy Bruce, the message that had been posted on True Social by the president.

I asked her about it and just listened to this remarkable moment where she responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ATWOOD: Do you know how long he's going to be serving in both roles?

TAMMY BRUCE, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: It is clear that I just heard this from you. I had I this is the magic --

ATWOOD: You had no heads up that this.

BRUCE: Well, I have some insights as to the potential of certain things that might happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ATWOOD (on camera): And just yesterday, as this was all unfolding, there was an event at the White House. President Trump looked at Rubio, who was there at the event and said when he has a problem, he calls up Marco, demonstrating how much he has learned to rely on the secretary of state and now acting national security adviser. Of course, we'll be watching to see how that relationship develops, particularly as there's, you know, the possibility for Trump going on a foreign trip in the coming months or so -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes, exactly. And already the responsibility is just the secretary of state that Marco Rubio has before him.

It's good to see you, Kylie. Thank you so much -- Omar.

JIMENEZ: Well Kate, joining me now is Christine Quinn, president and CEO of the group WIN. She's also the executive committee chair of the New York State Democratic Committee. And Neil Chatterjee, a Republican strategist. Thank you both for being here. Christine, I'll start with you because I guess the question is and we heard this from some Senate Democrats, congressional Democrats.

Do you think Trump is holding the wrong guy accountable here? Essentially, do you believe it should have been Hegseth, as some Democratic colleagues have implied?

CHRISTINE QUINN, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, WIN: Look, there's no question Waltz did something wrong. But the bigger person to blame here is absolutely Senator Hegseth. And the question is, why not?

Why hasn't he been removed from his position? We now have seen him twice go on an unsecure network onto Signal, give away important confidential military information. It kind of boggles the mind why you would make Waltz a fall guy and not do anything.

In fact, continue to put out praise and how much you think he's doing a good job. Why won't the president hold Hegseth accountable? He's in one of the most important positions at a time when the world is very, very volatile. You don't want someone who doesn't even follow basic protocols in that position.

JIMENEZ: And Vice President J.D. Vance considers this a promotion. But I will ask you, Neil, where do you fall on this here?

[08:10:00]

I mean, clearly, some feel it was really Hegseth that did much more wrong over this saga. I mean, just where do you feel in this personnel shakeup here?

NEIL CHATTERJEE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Look, from my perspective, I'm viewing this optimistically in that former Senator Rubio, Secretary Rubio, is now taking on more responsibility. Look, he is someone who is tremendously respected, has experience, who can take this on. I am not concerned about his ability to manage these various different responsibilities.

So my focus is on where we're going forward from here rather than looking back on who should be the fall guy or whatnot. What's happening going forward? And I think having Secretary Rubio assume this responsibility is very good for the American people.

JIMENEZ: I want to follow up as well on a different topic, because, you know, we're waiting for these jobs numbers to come out in a little, Neil. But a lot of economic indicators that the president has essentially said, trust me on this. Tariffs might have some temporary pain now but trust me on this.

A lot of Republicans now saying, wait for the trade deals. We haven't gotten any news of any concrete steps in trade deals just yet. But I guess my question is, how much of a test are the next few weeks for the president here, who styles himself as a master dealmaker in the face of a lot of Americans who are trying to figure out when some of their economic pains will be eased?

CHATTERJEE: Yes, it's huge. And I got to be honest, the uncertainty about what the endgame here is with the tariffs is having a huge chilling effect on investment. Look, I'm somebody who is in the energy space.

We have huge opportunity in energy. We're about to see an unprecedented surge in demand for electricity driven by AI and data centers and the opportunity that we have there. And you've got technologies like solar and storage that can meet that demand.

But the uncertainty about the tariffs is leading to like a freeze in investment. And that is going to have a potentially chilling effect on the economy. We need certainty. We need clarity. We need to see what the endgame is here. And we need it ASAP. JIMENEZ: And Christine, you know, one of the things -- and I asked Congressman Gottheimer this a little bit earlier -- is that with all of this uncertainty, you know, and Trump's popularity has declined slightly since he was inaugurated. Do you feel Democrats have been able to actually capture on the sort of things trending in the wrong direction or at the very least uncertainty for the president here? Because we've seen approval ratings for the leaders of the party, Schumer and Jeffrey.

QUINN: Not so great.

JIMENEZ: So yes, I mean, not great at all. So what needs to sort of change here from the Democratic side?

QUINN: Well, I think what we're seeing is Democrats really now being on a better footing, getting out there and really fighting back. I mean, if you look at the crowds of Bernie Sanders and AOC have gotten there, enormous, people full of tremendous energy. And I think as we're seeing different races like the New Jersey governor's race and other races across the country, we're hearing from voters, stand strong, fight back, don't roll over to Donald Trump.

And as that continues, I think we're going to see more Democratic victories at local levels and that that will just keep ramping up to next year in the congressional elections.

JIMENEZ: And last thing before we go, Neil, on that front, you know, the president is one thing, but, you know, Elon DOGE has been very tied, at least in the initial 100 days to what the president has sort of pushed for. Do you see the DOGE efforts as a political liability to the president pushing forward? I just wonder how you see the relationship between sort of those two arenas.

CHATTERJEE: Yes, look, I think I'm a Republican, I'm a conservative. Republicans have long called for government efficiency. I ran a federal agency in the first Trump administration.

Are there efficiencies that can be had within government? Most certainly. They've just got to be more effective in how they go about it.

I think the problem with DOGE to date and Elon has really taken a lot of the attention and the heat from it is that they've been wielding a hatchet where they just need to be smarter about it. Are there effective efficiencies that can be had in government? Absolutely.

You got to be smart about it. You just can't wield a hatchet. There's too many unintended consequences.

I think that's been part of the problem. I think Elon receding from the scene and allowing the cabinet officials to find efficiencies within their agencies is going to be a much better approach.

[08:15:00]

JIMENEZ: Christine Quinn, Neil Chatterjee, I have to leave it there. But thank you. Thank you both for being here. Really appreciate it.

QUINN: Thank you.

JIMENEZ: Kate.

BOLDUAN: China now talking about talking. The new word from Beijing and what it could mean for the standoff between Trump and China and this trade war.

And Secretary of State Marco Rubio issuing a new warning. The United States, he says, needs to see a breakthrough moment between Russia and Ukraine very soon or the U.S. may reassess their effort to help in the peace talks.

And the U.S. Army is setting up a second military zone now to detain migrants in Texas.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:20:00]

BOLDUAN: So a reality check of sorts from Secretary of State Marco Rubio on the Russia, Ukraine war this morning. Rubio is now saying that President Trump may need to reassess brokering a peace deal if there isn't a major development soon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: I think we know where Ukraine is, and we know where Russia is right now, and where Putin is. They're still far apart. They're closer, but they're still far apart. And it's going to take a real breakthrough here very soon to make this possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Rubio's comments come as there's also new reporting coming in about the intelligence on where Russian President Vladimir Putin really stands right now.

CNN's Alex Marquardt joins us now. And Alex, you've got this new reporting on kind of what Putin's, I don't know, goals are here.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, there have been intelligence assessments for a long time that Vladimir Putin thought that he could grind down Ukraine, wear out the West, and that time was on his side in the longer term. But now my colleague Zach Cohen and I are told that there is new intelligence that indicates that Putin's thinking may be shifting, that he may be thinking in the shorter term about solidifying the territorial gains that he has made, try to get his economy back up on its feet. Of course, it's been battered by sanctions.

And the U.S. has talked about the potential for historic investment opportunities. So he's thinking about this potentially in a different way. And that has led to some of this optimism that we've heard from the Trump administration about the possibility of striking a new deal. We should also note that we just heard from J.D. Vance, the vice president last night, who said that this war is not going to end any time soon.

Kate, it's very important to note that even if Putin's thinking may be shifting, that he still may have this longer term goal. He probably has this longer term goal of trying to take over more or all of Ukraine. But that he could be focusing a bit more, prioritizing more, a pause right now.

This is how one senior Western intelligence official put it to me, that Putin may be thinking about what a reasonable nearer term objective is, so that he could not just claim victory domestically, but really feel that he has achieved something that is worth a significant pause and then maybe retake the fight up at some point later.

And that's a sentiment, Kate, that we heard from a number of different people.

One European official I spoke with said that Moscow is indicating that they may want to play along with Washington, get to that deal, get to that pause, and then they will use it to rebuild their military, rebuild their economy and start the fight up again at some point in the future.

That's why the Ukrainians have been insistent on securing the security guarantees.

So, interesting insight into the new intelligence on Putin's thinking, but at the same time, every single intelligence professional official will tell you that it is impossible to get inside Putin's head -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Certainly. But great reporting, Alex. Thank you so much for bringing it to us this morning.

So in a first of its kind ruling, and it's coming from a Trump- appointed judge, ruling that the president's push to use wartime authority to deport migrants very quickly, ruling that it's unlawful. So what this means for the president's immigration crackdown now.

[08:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JIMENEZ: Welcome back. Well, this morning we are standing by to see how President Trump may respond after a judge he appointed in Texas called his actions unlawful. Now the judge becoming the first to rule that Trump exceeded his authority when he relied on the Alien Enemies Act to deport alleged members of a Venezuelan gang.

Vice President J.D. Vance said this last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're aggressively appealing this stuff. We do think that the higher appeals courts and in particular the Supreme Court is going to recognize immigration enforcement is a core function of the President of the United States. If you tell the president he's not allowed to deport illegal criminals, then you're telling the president he's not allowed to be the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: CNN's Katelyn Polantz is in Washington. So, Katelyn, this this ruling specific to the judges district in Texas. Can you just explain why that particular aspect is significant and how big of a blow is this really to the White House's push here?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Omar, this is a big ruling because it's the first of its kind. It's the first time a judge has gotten to the end of a case challenging the Trump administration's use of the Alien Enemies Act to try and remove people. In this case, sending Venezuelans to El Salvador that the administration believes are of that gang, Tren de Aragua.

This is the first judge to look at the Alien Enemies Act as a law and to look at how Donald Trump has used it and said no, this is not going to be OK. There are people being held all over the country and there are courts all over the country that are looking at that use of the Alien Enemies Act.

But this judge, this is Fernando Rodriguez Jr. in the southern district of Texas. He's a Trump appointee, been on the bench since 2018. And he says the way that the administration did this, it's just not appropriate.

This is a wartime act only ever before used after three wars, the War of 1812, World War I and then World War II after the bombing of Pearl Harbor and then later in that war. And this moment in time where Trump is using the Aliens Act, it's not an invasion of the United States, as the law says it must be to use this thing. And it's not just up to the president to say who alien enemies are and when that time is.

The courts have a say and so do Congress. Here's a little bit more, Omar, of what the judge wrote in this opinion yesterday.

Allowing the President to unilaterally define the conditions when he may invoke the AEA, and then summarily declare those conditions exit.