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Newark Airport Hit with 8th Straight Day of Flight Delays, Cancellations; Israel Approves Plan to Expand Military Operations in Gaza; Trump Administration Starts Talks with DOJ to Reopen Alcatraz. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired May 05, 2025 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: The nation's critical shortage of air traffic controllers is causing significant disruptions at Newark Liberty International Airport for the eighth consecutive day. Hundreds of passengers flights have been either delayed or canceled. Newark is ranked the 14th busiest airport in the country and the FAA says flights coming into the airport today are being delayed by up to four hours.

CNN's Brynn Gingras is at Newark Airport with more on what's causing the backups and if the situation is getting any better. Brynn, tell us what's going on.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, Brianna, we're talking to travelers who know that they're coming to this airport looking at their flights leaving from Newark and they're like, crap, what are we going to do? Because it is just delay after delay after delay.

Let me show you what the board looks like right now. This is Terminal A. This is the pretty much mostly domestic departures and you can just see it. Delay, delay, delay, delay, delay.

I mean, we're talking hours, as you said, Brianna, delays out of Newark Airport.

Now, this is Terminal B. Most of these flights are actually going to be international flights and still so many delays and you always hear how those international flights are typically sort of saved from the delays or cancellations. Well, that doesn't appear to be the case.

Now, it is really the perfect storm of issues here at Newark Airport. There are staffing shortages. There is a runway closed because it is being renovated. There is cloud cover here at Newark Airport. There is just really the perfect storm of issues causing headaches for travelers.

Now, we talk to people who have had multiple delays and then a cancellation, have had to sleep on the floor at the airport. We've talked to people who are arriving ready to get on their flight only to see that it's just been canceled. Let's take a listen to some of the people we've talked to so far.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MANU VARTHESE, AIRLINE PASSENGER: My delays like a flight got canceled. Yes, so the next flight they give me is on 8th.

GINGRAS: It's on the 8th?

VARTHESE: Yes.

GINGRAS: So wait, was it delayed? Then it got canceled? And now?

VARTHESE: Yes.

GINGRAS: OK.

VARTHESE: So when I reached out to them, they said I don't have any option to travel today. So I just rebooked different airlines from here.

GREG MARSZALEK, AIRLINE PASSENGER: I'm just trying not to know what's wrong. So as to not get mad at anyone.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GINGRAS (on camera): Yes, I mean, ignorance is bliss in this situation. Some people taking it in stride. Other people just really frustrated, wanting answers.

We actually heard from Senator Chuck Schumer, who had a news conference today, who talked about the issues here at Newark Airport, how it needs to get resolved. It's not going to be a quick fix as we keep hearing for from federal officials. And he was warning, listen, it's going to happen in Newark, and then it's just going to ripple across the country.

But again, that doesn't give much hope for travelers who are just so frustrated that that keeps -- this keeps on happening to them, making it, you know, not able to sleep at home when they expect to make costing more money, and just overall headaches, like I said -- guys.

KEILAR: Yes, what a headache indeed. Brynn Gingras, thank you so much for the latest there from Newark Liberty International Airport.

Let's talk about this now as CNN aviation analyst and former NTSB Managing Director Peter Goelz. Peter, how bad is this as you look at the issues that Newark is having?

PETER GOELZ, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, this is really outrageous, Brianna. I mean, it's been going on for over a week. There have been hundreds of flight cancellations every day.

And there's not a thing consumers can do about it. The FAA is going to have to do a couple of things. First, they need to step up and reclassify Newark Airport as a level three airport, which would give them control of the slots.

Both JFK and LaGuardia are slot controlled airports. Newark is going to have to become a slot controlled airport, which will mean there will be fewer flights, probably per hour, but there'll be control. And secondly, the FAA has really got to move forward on this hiring blockage.

I know that Secretary is trying to address it, but it is 3,000 controllers short is really unacceptable. And you have a control tower at Newark with 36 slots, nine of which are trainees. That's simply not enough to move the traffic.

KEILAR: I've heard some people look at what's going on in Newark and they say, I don't want to fly into Newark. I don't feel that I am safe. What do you say to people who are looking at these traffic controller numbers and are concerned about safety?

GOELZ: Listen, we have a very safe system, but any time it's stressed like this, where you have, you know, controllers who are feeling under maximum pressure, it impacts safety and people have a right to be concerned.

[13:35:00]

I'm not sure I'd want to fly out of Newark over the next week or 10 days. I might choose an alternate route because you cannot expect humans to function at their highest level for sustained periods of time with this kind of pressure on them.

KEILAR: Yes, I actually canceled flights to and from Newark myself on Thursday and Friday and instead drove over five hours one direction and about five coming back, thought I'd overreacted. But now as we're watching this story, I suspect some other people are making the same decision here.

I also want to ask you about this incident at Reagan National Airport that we saw here in Washington, D.C. last week. There were two commercial flights that had to abort their landings after a Black Hawk military helicopter was seen approaching the Pentagon. As we know, they're not supposed to be flying through this corridor. Can you tell us what happened here? What went wrong?

GOELZ: Well, you know, we still haven't gotten to the bottom of why the Air Brigade flies as many, you know, missions as they do. I mean, they talk about continuity of government. They talk about, you know, mission specific activities.

But a lot of them are convenience flight and tourist flights. And the one that we were mentioning in which two aircraft had to divert, the guy said, well, let's take a scenic route and get a look at the monuments.

I think the NTSB has got to get a look at the flight logs of the Air Brigade that flies these helicopters. And let's see how many are actually in the national interest and how many are discretionary. We simply cannot allow what Chairman Homendy called an intolerable level of risk to continue to exist at DCA.

KEILAR: Yes, definitely needs a look. Peter Goelz, always great to have you. Thank you so much.

GOELZ: Thank you, Brianna.

KEILAR: Coming up, Israel approves plans to expand military operations in Gaza. So what does this mean for the dozens of hostages still being held by Hamas? What does this mean for people in Gaza? We'll have that ahead.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Tensions are rising in the Middle East as Israel prepares to expand military operations in Gaza. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says the Israeli military cabinet approved the plan on Sunday. It's described by one minister as an operation to quote, conquer the territory, thousands of reservists are being called in to the as part of the expanded operations.

One senior Israeli security official saying all Palestinians will be moved to southern Gaza.

Now, meantime, the hostage family forum is warning that this move puts the remaining 59 Israeli hostages still being held at, quote, grave risk. The operations would not likely begin until after President Trump visits the Middle East next week.

Joining us now to discuss retired Admiral Jane Stavridis, who is a CNN military analyst and also former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, as well as a partner for the global investment firm, the Carlyle Group. Admiral, good to have you back with us.

When we, when we look at these plans, Israel's far right finance minister, I was struck by some of his comments.

He said, we're conquering Gaza to stay no more in and out and went on to say it's time to stop fearing the word occupation.

Do you see anything here that would stop a full occupation?

ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST: I really don't. If the Israelis decide they're going to do this, there are three big downsides for the Israelis. Number one, the hostages, which you just talked about, hard to see them coming out alive from a massive occupation force.

Number two, internationally, this is going to further isolate Israel because of the 2.2 million Gazans that are going to be kind of trapped here. Even if you try and push them south, the humanitarian crisis will just continue to unfold.

And then number three, the impact on Israeli society itself. They're mobilizing reservists. They're largely a reserve force, Erica. So all of those people are walking away from their jobs, away from their businesses, coming on active duty. And here's the really bad news about occupations. You got to stay. You got to have a force. They've got to maintain order and discipline. You own the humanitarian aspects of all of this. I think it's going to be a big challenge for the Israelis.

I hope they know what they're going to bite off here before they really roll in big waves.

HILL: You know, I want to dig in on each of those points when it comes to the hostages, you know, we know there is great concern among the families, especially because we also heard from Mr. Smotrich that if this expansion, when it starts, it, in his words, won't even stop in exchange for hostages. At this point, do you think these families have any sway whatsoever over the Israeli cabinet?

STAVRIDIS: I think, unfortunately, we've watched their political capital gradually diminish for a couple of reasons. One is simply, and this is a good thing, that many of the hostages were released already. I think they're down to about 60 hostages, probably, tragically, only half of whom are still alive. So the numbers are much smaller. The political pressure is therefore reduced on the Netanyahu government.

[13:45:00]

And then secondly, just with the passage of time and the frustrations building in the Israeli population, the sympathy for the hostages, I think, unfortunately, is diminished as well.

HILL: You talk about the humanitarian aspect here. So there was a discussion, U.S. and Israeli officials discussing the mechanism that would deliver aid to Gaza, but they want to bypass Hamas. The U.N.'s Office of Coordination of Humanitarian Aid, OSHA, as it's known, warned that this is dangerous in a statement saying that it would force civilians into militarized zones to get that aid, saying that they believe this threatens lives of not only civilians, but of humanitarian workers as well.

What do you think this plan would actually need in terms of getting aid to Gaza and getting enough aid in?

STAVRIDIS: I think it's going to be extremely difficult to move aid at the scale and scope and size that's going to be necessary if the entire Gaza Strip becomes a free fire zone, a battlefield, a big military force going in.

And here's the military obligation of the Israeli defense forces. When you conquer a territory militarily, you are obligated under international law, under every aspect of the laws of war, you own the civilian population in terms of meeting their needs, food, water, education, electricity, medical care, all of that.

So if Israel is going to launch a full scale attack, they have to, under international law and the laws of war, provide for this population, 2.2 million Gazans, half of them, Erica, are children under the age of 17. HILL: It is a lot to process. Again, not expected to be implemented until after President Trump visits the Middle East next week. Of course, a lot of important meetings for him scheduled. He's going to Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Qatar as well. One would imagine this will be top of those discussions.

Admiral, always appreciate your insight. Thank you.

STAVRIDIS: Thanks, Erica.

HILL: Just ahead here, it has been decades since Alcatraz held some of the nation's most notorious prisoners, gangsters among them. Now President Trump wants to get the now tourist attraction back into prison form. Is it even possible?

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a hostage situation on Alcatraz.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hostages?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 81 tourist.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Rock's a tourist attraction?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Yes, Sean Connery, Alcatraz is a tourist attraction, but it won't be if President Trump gets his way. He wrote in a Truth Social post, When we were a more serious nation in times past, we did not hesitate to lock up the most dangerous criminals and keep them far away from anyone they could harm. Going on to write, That is why today I am directing the Bureau of Prisons, together with the Department of Justice, FBI, and Homeland Security, to reopen a substantially enlarged and rebuilt Alcatraz, to house America's most ruthless and violent offenders.

A DOJ spokesperson says the Bureau of Prisons is now working towards rebuilding the prison, but here is more from the President.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a symbol of law and order, and it's got quite a history, frankly. So I think we're going to do that, and we're looking at it right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: So let's talk about the history of Alcatraz. It was a maximum- security, minimum-privilege prison that opened in 1934, and it held some notorious gangsters like Al Capone and George Machine Gun Kelly. While most of the prisoners were not well-known gangsters, the Bureau of Prisons says they were either considered violent and dangerous, or they were escape risks, and the FBI says there were 14 separate escape attempts by 36 men over the 29 years that the prison was in operation.

But nearly all of them were caught, or they were no match for the frigid water and the strong currents of the San Francisco Bay or the distance to shore. But ultimately, it was that prison's isolation that led to its closure in 1963.

Because here's how the Bureau of Prisons put it at the time.

An estimated $3 to $5 million was needed just for restoration and maintenance work to keep the prison open, and that figure did not include even daily operating costs. Alcatraz was nearly three times more expensive to operate than any other federal prison. In fact, the island had no source of fresh water, so nearly a million gallons of water had to be barged in each week.

And then, the agency goes on to point out, the federal government found that it was more cost-effective to just build a new institution rather than to keep Alcatraz open.

After the prison closed, Alcatraz was basically abandoned for a few years until 1969, when a group of Native American activists occupied it for 19 months in protest. They tried claiming the island as indigenous land in the hope of creating a Native American cultural center and education complex. The federal government eventually removed them from the island.

And then, in 1973, the prison was opened as a tourist attraction that was managed by the National Park Service, and it continues to be a very popular site.

[13:55:00]

It attracts about 1.6 million visitors annually and generates about $60 million in annual revenue, according to the National Park Service. We should point out, this isn't the first time that a president has considered reopening Alcatraz, or the Rock that is so-called in that movie. In 1981, the island was rejected as one of 14 sites that the Reagan administration considered to hold Cuban detainees during the Mariel Boatlift.

And the reason was this, essentially no utilities, historic site, popular tourist attraction.

So, while the president wants to reopen the prison that is a, quote, symbol of law and order, this symbol has a serious price tag. Is it worth the cost?

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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