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Federal Judge to Hear Arguments on Deporting Venezuelan Migrants to El Salvador; DHS Says It Will Pay Undocumented Migrants to Leave U.S.; Trump Says I Don't Know if I Need to Uphold Constitution, Says Administration Will Obviously Follow the Supreme Court; Hollywood Shaken by Trump's Tariff Plan for Movie Industry. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired May 05, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:38]

ERICA HILL, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": Testing the limits of the president's power, a hearing next hour could shed light on the White House's attempt to send another group of migrants to El Salvador under the Alien Enemies Act. This as the president makes a surprising claim suggesting he may not have to uphold the Constitution despite that oath that he took to do so.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": And chilling new details in the thwarted attack on a Lady Gaga Concert in Rio de Janeiro. Two arrested and suspected of targeting LGBTQ+ people, their goal to gain "notoriety" on social media. And could it be the future of cancer treatment? Doctors are excited by the promise of a drug that uses a patient's own immune system to fight cancer. We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to "CNN News Central."

HILL: One hour from now, the president's executive power will once again be put to the test in court. A Trump-appointed judge in Pennsylvania will hear arguments over the administration's attempt to quickly deport Venezuelan migrants to El Salvador using the Alien Enemies Act. Now, the judge has already temporary blocked the deportation of detainees from an ICE facility in her district.

And just last week, another Trump-appointed judge, this one in Texas, ruled the president unlawfully invoked the sweeping 18th century wartime authority to speed up some deportations in his district. CNN's Priscilla Alvarez joining us now with more. So Priscilla, walk us through what could we learn today here? What's actually at stake with this hearing?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So we're going to have an opportunity to hear more from yet another judge about the Trump administration's use of the Alien Enemies Act. Up until this point, there have been multiple legal challenges across the country as migrants who are detained, have tried to fight their removal underneath this authority. And judges have slammed the administration for the most part, for the way that it has used this act. And so, this is going to be yet another opportunity to hear how a federal judge fields the Trump administration's argument and what she has to say. She, of course, is a Trump-appointed judge.

Now, this is a soup, by the way, Erica, that was filed after the Supreme Court ruled that the administration could use this authority, but they had to offer some level of due process. And that is something that lawyers have said there just hasn't been, or hasn't been enough of. So that is likely to come up during this as well. But all of it is coming against the backdrop of that ruling that you mentioned last week, which called the use of this act unlawful. And that was a notable moment because it is building momentum toward what is likely to head all the way up to the Supreme Court with all of these challenges.

HILL: Yeah, we'll likely see it back there. I also wanted to ask you, well, what we learned today, the Department of Homeland Security announcing that it's going to pay undocumented migrants essentially to go back to their home countries. How is this going to work? How much money are we talking about?

ALVAREZ: Look, bottom line, deportations are hard to execute. They are also expensive. So the administration has been looking for ways to get people to leave on their own. So they announced today this program, which would essentially be them buying an airline ticket, a one-way airline ticket for someone to leave and then also offer a $1,000 stipend. Their argument in all of this is that it costs more than $17,000 to arrest, detain, and remove an individual. So they see this as a more cost effective way of doing things.

But it also is a concession that, again, deportations and especially mass deportations are very difficult if people aren't also leaving on their own volition. Now, this is something that President Trump talked about just moments ago too in the Oval Office. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We're going to get them a beautiful flight back to where they came from, and they have a period of time, and if they make it, we're going to work with them, so that maybe someday with a little work they can come back in. If they're good people, if they're the kind of people that we want in our company, industrious people that could love our country. And if they're not, they won't. But it will give them a path to becoming -- to coming back into the country.

If they miss that limit, they're going to be taken out of our country. And they never have -- they have never -- they will never get a path to come back in and it'll be a much tougher process. And it's called self-deportation. And by doing that, you're talking about so many millions of people, by doing that. We have -- by the way, we've taken out thousands of terrorists, drug lords.

[14:05:00]

What we've done is amazing. And as your Tom Homan and Kristi Noem have done an incredible job. They really have done an incredible job, but it's a, it's a hard job. So we're going to have a self-deportation where they deport themselves out of our country and we'll work with them, and we're going to try and if we think they're good, they have -- the people we want in our country, they're going to come back into our country. We'll give them a little easier route. But if they don't work, and if we take them out after the date, then they're never coming back. And that's the least of the problems that they're going to have. Yeah, please.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: Now, what the president is referring to there is that if you are undocumented in the United States and you want to obtain legal status, you often have to leave. And there are bars on that. So what the administration is saying is that it could be easier down the road if you self-deport. Now, immigration lawyers will tell you it is complicated, every case is complicated. So if you are going to enter a deportation order now, could that affect your case down the road when you want to return to the United States? So this is certainly complicated, but it is still one big push by the administration to get people to voluntarily deport the United States if they are here without legal status.

HILL: It would be interesting to see if people actually take them up on it. We'll be watching. Priscilla, thank you. Well, three months after swearing an oath to protect, preserve, and defend the constitution, President Trump is now saying he doesn't know if it's his job to uphold the constitution. It was a comment that came during exchange on NBC's Meet the Press with Kristen Welker when she asked the president if citizens and non-citizens deserve due process.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTEN WELKER, HOST OF "MEET THE PRESS," NBC NEWS: Don't you need to uphold the Constitution of the United States as president?

TRUMP: I don't know. I have to respond by saying again, I have brilliant lawyers that work for me and they are going to obviously follow what the Supreme Court said.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: CNN's Kristen Holmes joins us now. So, Kristen, what is the White House saying about this exchange today?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erica, there really hasn't been any form of clarification or cleanup of these remarks. In fact, the officials that I've spoken to, as well as Trump's allies, point to what he said after that, saying that he was just saying that he wasn't a lawyer, that he was going to turn to his lawyers in order to find out what he could and couldn't do. And of course, pointing to the fact that he said that he would listen to the Supreme Court.

Now, as you mentioned, Trump did take an oath to preserve and to protect the Constitution. So we have had a number of Republican lawmakers on our air today, not quite defending Donald Trump's remarks, but saying they of course would uphold the Constitution. I do just want to point out one thing that happened before that exchange was, essentially, they were pointing out that Marco Rubio has said that these citizens or these people in the United States do deserve due process. Does Donald Trump agree with that?

And that, of course is when he went back to pushback saying he doesn't know what he agrees to. It's all up to the lawyers there. But again, not seeing that kind of cleanup or clarification from the White House today.

HILL: Kristen, the president has also said some other news-making comments, vowing to slap a 100 percent tariff on movies outside of the U.S. Do you know, is the White House clarifying just how serious that threat is, that potential?

HOLMES: Well, Donald Trump was just asked about this and essentially, he went on to say that the industry had been completely decimated, that no one was making movies in the country anymore. But it did sound as though some people had gotten into his ear to talk about how this could be a bad idea. One of the reasons why this is so complicated and why we've had so many questions about this idea since he put it out there last night, is the fact that we know movies are made all over the world. And it's not just one movie made in one different country.

It's that there are production houses that contribute a small amount to various different movies. What exactly is he talking about? Think about all of the production companies or all of the movies that get tax incentives to film overseas. Does that go away? So clearly, he has had at least someone talk to them because he said that he was going to sit down with the movie industry, with different representatives in Hollywood to have a conversation that he didn't want to hurt the industry in any way.

But this obviously goes to this larger picture of what we've heard Donald Trump say over and over again, which is this idea that everything has to be made in America. The one complication here is that movies really don't fit into the same box as an item like a doll, for example. This is something that is a collaborative effort and how exactly you kind of limit that or put tariffs on that really would be very difficult. And we still have a lot of questions on how that would look.

HILL: Yeah, absolutely. Kristen, appreciate it and welcome back. Thank you. Brianna?

HOLMES: Thank you.

KEILAR: Joining us now to talk more about these developments, we have Republican Congressman Rich McCormick of Georgia. Thank you so much for joining us in studio. We really appreciate it.

REP. RICH MCCORMICK, (R-GA): Good to be with you. Thanks.

KEILAR: So, the president said he doesn't know when asked if everyone in the U.S. deserves due process and if he needs to uphold the Constitution, does that concern you?

MCCORMICK: No, I don't think the president ever inferred that he didn't want to up uphold the constitution of the United States.

[14:10:00]

He swore that oath when he took office. He said very specifically, like, I got great lawyers. I'm going to make sure that we agree with the Supreme Court ruling, which means that the Supreme Court ruling, their job, their entire job is to make sure that something is constitutional. When they rule on it and they said it is or isn't constitutional, they will abide by that, which means he basically said, we'll follow whatever they deem is constitutional.

KEILAR: Isn't the Constitution constitutional though? I mean, he was being asked about the Constitution, not the interpretation of the Constitution?

MCCORMICK: Sure. But the Constitution, just like the Bible, a lot of people like to interpret, including lawyers, especially lawyers. As a matter of fact, we've seen that very frustratingly applied historically. But that's why we have lawyers. That's why we have debates. That's why we have constitutional lawyers who go before in the Supreme Court, who are the best in the business and actually argue things in front of some of the best lawmakers and law interpreters of the nation. That's what they're supposed to be. And when they decide what is constitutional, then the President will abide by that. He promised that.

KEILAR: Do you believe that everyone who is here in the U.S., citizens and non-citizens, deserve due process?

MCCORMICK: They do. They do. And I think once again, when we get back to the Garcia, the very, very famous Garcia case, he went before a trial twice, not once, not twice -- but twice. And then after that, if he came back to the United States, he was supposed to be deported regardless. And if he came back to the United States, he would go before habeas. And then you'd have to determine does he still have the threat that kept him from being deported back to El Salvador, his home of origin.

KEILAR: But back to the -- do you believe the president should uphold the Constitution?

MCCORMICK: Of course.

KEILAR: See, those are pretty easy questions for you to answer. You're also not a lawyer. I would mention.

MCCORMICK: I'm a doctor. That's correct.

KEILAR: That's right. Would someone, obviously of, high education, but these were not particularly difficult questions for you to answer. Why is it hard for the president to answer these questions? Should it be hard for the president to answer what are pretty basic questions here?

MCCORMICK: Well, I thought he did. As a matter of fact, if you think about how many interviews he takes and how much he publicly speaks, it's pretty amazing. I know that I'd make a lot of gaffes, and I'm not saying all this is a gaffe. I'm just saying that if he's saying that he's going to have his lawyers talk to Supreme Court, argue a case for the Supreme Court, whatever the Supreme Court says is constitutional, he's going to abide by, I think that's saying he's going to abide by the Constitution.

KEILAR: He was asked very clear questions about whether he believes that everyone who's here, citizens and non-citizens, deserve due process and if he should uphold the Constitution? You took an oath. You mentioned -- you say he took an oath. You took an oath when you joined the Marine Corps. You took an oath when you were sworn into Congress, and I suspect you remember what you swore to support and/or defend when you took that oath.

MCCORMICK: I've given the oath, as well as taking it. I know the oath --

KEILAR: And that was, what did you swear?

MCCORMICK: To support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.

KEILAR: Again, not a difficult question for you to answer, which is something that maybe gives people confidence when they hear you saying, repeating what you swore an oath to. On tariffs, I want to talk about tariffs.

MCCORMICK: Sure.

KEILAR: Because I know this is really concerning too to your constituents and all Americans are looking at this policy and how it's affecting them. President Trump told Kristen Welker on Meet the Press that he'll lower tariffs against China at some point, because otherwise you could never do business with them. How long can the U.S. afford to wait for that point?

MCCORMICK: Well, I think the good news is right now, everything has not changed. I mean, he's put a 90-day hiatus on making a decision. Meanwhile, they're making out a lot of individual negotiations between countries, over 70. I think over a hundred now. 70 of them, I know for a fact have come out and said, let's have zero-zero tariffs. That's the best-case scenario the United States has ever had in my lifetime at least, in your lifetime certainly. That would be a great win. And I didn't think he could get that done. I was actually like, wow, this is a game of chicken. Let's see how it works out.

But this could work out great. Now the question is, how is China going to react to these tariffs and what is the end result going to happen with a country that supplies a lot of meaningful things, not just batteries, but actually, medications that we use, personal protection, things that we could have maybe produced other places, but we don't have that capacity right now. And there'd be a gap and there'd be some hardship, if we're not careful. So I think he's a smart guy. I think he's looking deliberately at what he's going to do going forward, but this could have real benefits to us going forward.

KEILAR: There may be discussions. There are no deals yet. We have to be clear.

MCCORMICK: Sure.

KEILAR: -- about that. So that's still obviously something that we're waiting for. So how much time do you think we have? You're talking about hardship.

MCCORMICK: Sure.

KEILAR: That's kind of vague. How much time does the U.S. have that they can afford to endure that kind of economic pain?

MCCORMICK: Well, the nice thing is nothing -- the stock market is all hypothetical, right? It's going to bounce up and down based on people projecting what might happen. The only thing that I'm worried about right now is the backlog of orders, because people are waiting to make orders. That's going to create an accordion effect in the economy, which could create some minor inflation, which is going to be adjusted over time. But we have about another 60 days.

And I think once again, if these come out to zero-zero tariffs, wow, what a boom that's going to be for us. What a benefit that's going to be for exports.

[14:15:00]

And it's not going to affect our import tariffs because we're going to have zero-zero if that's what case. Now the question is, is it going to have a 10 percent across the board? Is there going to be commodity tariffs of 25 percent on steel and aluminum? There are some things that could cause some inflationary policies, but that's yet to be seen.

KEILAR: In the near term, you're seeing prices already up at Amazon, Walmart, and Wayfair. Different reporting, analyses, looking at between one and some odd percent up to 4 percent on some of these retailers, which is an amount that certainly Americans, they registered their complaints at the ballot box.

MCCORMICK: Sure.

KEILAR: -- that they found unsatisfactory. And Republicans certainly found unsatisfactory when it was due to inflation. So knowing that we're already seeing some of those costs, what are you hearing from your constituents and why is that tolerable?

MCCORMICK: I think people are waiting to see what's going to happen. It's been one month. If we end up with zero-zero tariffs, we're actually going to end up with cheaper prices. That'd be phenomenal because a lot of things, remember when we import from India, 2 percent to 3 percent tariffs on imports. Same thing with China. We have some import tariffs on them too. This could actually result in cheaper prices overall. That's -- right now, the only thing that's causing the increase in prices is the ordering system, not the tariffs themselves because we don't have new tariffs right now.

KEILAR: So you're expecting things to be cheaper coming out of this in such a way that your constituents will see economic relief?

MCCORMICK: That would be ideal. And I think that's the goal, is to open up markets overseas. And at the same time, the question is how are we going to generate revenue? How are we going to get the tariffs back when it comes to the amount of revenue it generates both here and abroad?

KEILAR: Well, you can't do both.

MCCORMICK: That's correct. And so that's what's going to be interesting to see how they negotiate that.

KEILAR: All right. Yeah. These are mutually exclusive. If they're not in place, they're not generating revenue. Congressman McCormick, it's great to have you. Thank you so much for joining us.

MCCORMICK: It's a pleasure. Thank you.

KEILAR: And still to come, the Trump administration signaling trade deals could come as early as this week. Is it soon enough for investors and companies who are anxious for clarity. Plus, Secretary of State Marco Rubio now dividing his attention between two of the most important positions in the Trump administration as he's taking over an interim national -- taking over as Interim National Security Advisor and also overseeing two other agencies as well. And a potential game changer in the treatment of cancer that allows patients to avoid surgery or chemotherapy. We'll look at that. We'll have that and much more coming up on "CNN News Central."

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[14:22:15]

HILL: New today, the White House says no final decision has been made after President Trump vowed last night to slap a 100 percent tariff on movies produced outside the U.S. Just minutes ago, president Trump was asked about that proposed new tariff. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: A lot of it's been taken to other countries and a big proportion, and I'm actually going to meet with some because there's some advantages I guess. And I'm not looking to hurt the industry. I want to help the industry. But they're given financing by other countries. They've given a lot of things and the industry was decimated. If you look at how little is done in this country now, you think we were the ones -- we used to do a hundred not long ago, a hundred percent. Now we do almost like very little. It's shocking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Tom Keene joins me now. He's the co-host of Bloomberg Surveillance on Bloomberg Radio. Tom, great to have you here this afternoon. So, when we look at and try to process, as many people are doing today, this potential 100 percent tariff on foreign movies. The White House has said, look, there's no final decisions that have been made here, but the fact that this is a proposed tariff on services, what are you hearing in terms of rumblings and concerns that other service industries may be the next target?

TOM KEENE, CO-HOST, BLOOMBERG SURVEILLANCE: I haven't seen much over the services, but you're right. There's a huge distinction here, Erica, between goods, something we're familiar with, like cars, Canada, Carney meeting with Trump this week, and services. What I would suggest is a great chart from Justin Wolfers of Michigan today showing that the movie industry is the exact opposite of the president's concerns with China. It is a surplus business for America. Movies, entertainment is one of our great export successes.

HILL: It is, yes, and I will -- always a big fan of Professor Wolfers as well. So when we look at that, right, that raises more questions about where this may have come from, this idea even, what it could look like. I also wanted to ask you about something that was said during his interview on Meet the Press yesterday when he talked about some people on Wall Street, in his words, said that this is the greatest thing to ever happen. He was talking about the global trade war. Walk me through, are there some pockets, what are these pockets of Wall Street that are pleased today with this tariff strategy?

KEENE: I think there are people that are in support of the president. There are people identified as Republican donors, people on Wall Street, a traditional part of the Republican Party and maybe they're in support of it. It's a pretty lonely group. I would suggest that the executives of Wall Street, the shareholders of Wall Street listened to the economists and that's a very lonely group of economists in support of the president's trade war.

[14:25:00]

Most people walking through it are saying this is one part, ancient economics, almost a mercantile America. And another part made up ideas where maybe down the road we'll get some clarity. What I've emphasized, Erica, is the timeline fiction. You had the gentleman from Georgia on moments ago with Brianna. The problems on the X-axis, trade war has effect on Americans short term. Now, 2025, the solutions for the president are out quarters, if not years.

HILL: And that's one of the questions that keeps coming up, right? Is how much pain are we talking about? How long could this transition period last? Because if there's going to be a shift economically, there's always going to be a transition. The lack of those clear answers making it very difficult to your point. When it came to the question of a recession, obviously, the president's comments there also getting a lot of attention.

The fact that we had this one, of course, quarter of slowdown, when we look at GDP, the concerns about what could be coming next, how -- what is the pulse that you're getting the day after those comments? The president saying he'd actually be OK if the economy fell into a recession because as part of the transition.

KEENE: Well, that's an original thought. Let's be clear here. And this came up this weekend actually just with the family. A recession is not a depression. I don't hear anybody talking about the agony of the '30s or even what we saw in '07, '08, '09. But a two-quarter negative GDP is a statistic. It's an -- it's something we follow way after the fact in the economic business. Right now, a huge body of Americans already feel like they're in a recession. And the question is, will that grow in the coming quarters? What I'm seeing in the data what we see at Bloomberg led by our Anna Wong, is just simple. Watch the labor market, Erica, is the key determinant of the pain of recession.

HILL: And that May report will really be telling us something since as we know, April, of course, this is backward looking. I want to get your take on this because I'm struck by, we keep hearing very positive from the White House, from the president, from others in the administration. A deal is coming, a deal is coming, it's imminent. But then I'm also struck by the president saying over the weekend, and it's not the first time we've heard him say this, but then again, I set the deal.

So no matter what, I'm going to set the deal. It'll be what I want, which sounds like there is no negotiation, ultimately. The president will just decide the terms no matter what. This is, I know, adding to that uncertainty about any of those deals. Is there also a sense that it has been off-putting to some of these countries because the goalposts keep moving, that maybe it's in their interest to make a deal with somebody else besides the U.S. first, to shore up their agreements with less mercurial trading partners?

KEENE: Right. It's precisely where I am, Erica, and I got to be careful here. There's the unilateral efforts of any individual, in this case, the president of the United States. Mr. Carney is going to meet with him. Maybe they'll talk about the 51st or the 52nd state. But what's so important here is to go from the Trump unilateral to something typical bilateral, but knowing that everyone that has followed trade back to Ricardo of 1815, or frankly before that, knows it's a multilateral game.

You look at the giants, China, Canada, Mexico, then you look at the other nations around them, they have to co-exist with or without the United States. It's a multilateral discussion and the President is going to be, I guess, led there by the Secretary of Treasury, the way it looks right now.

HILL: We'll continue to follow it. Tom, great to have your insight. Thank you.

KEENE: Sure.

HILL: Coming up here, President Trump drops a couple of familiar names in his search to replace his former National Security Advisor Mike Waltz. Plus, the Coast Guard jumping into action when a luxury yacht begins to sink with 32 people on board.

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