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Ground Delays at Newark Airport; Interview With Former U.S. National Security Adviser John Bolton; Trump Meets With Canadian Prime Minister. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired May 06, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:01]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: I mean, the weave is back, by the way.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Certainly.

BASH: The weave is back.

CHALIAN: I mean, I -- it was like, I have not heard President Trump talk about the Obama Presidential Center like that before, but that presidential center is slated to open in the middle of next year, in 2026.

Usually, the sitting president is invited to participate in that process with the former president.

BASH: Yes.

CHALIAN: We will see how that goes, because he clearly had some thoughts about that not going so well at the moment.

BASH: Yes, he did.

CHALIAN: Yes.

BASH: Thank you all very much.

Thank you for joining INSIDE POLITICS.

"CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Trade tensions on display, as President Trump welcomes Canada's prime minister to the White House, but are the two leaders going to be able to move past tough trade talk to reach a trade deal?

And how 30 seconds of silence led to an air traffic nightmare at New York's airport. Travelers face even more delays and cancellations today.

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: And the next superbug threat may already be here, microscopic fungal spores that live all around us and can cause deadly infections. We're following these major developing stories and many more coming in

right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: Hello. I'm Brianna Keilar, along with Erica Hill, here in Washington, in for Boris.

Great to have you.

HILL: Nice to be with you.

KEILAR: And we are following breaking news.

We just witnessed an extraordinary moment unfolding at the White House. President Trump sitting next to Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney, who just won what was really a stunning election fueled by his promise to stand up to Trump's aggressive trade war and repeated attacks threatening Canada's sovereignty.

HILL: So just take a look at this exchange as President Trump makes the case for Canada to become America's 51st state.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think that there are tremendous benefits to the Canadian citizens, tremendously lower taxes, free military, which, honestly, we give you essentially anyway, because we're protecting Canada, if you ever had a problem.

But I think it's a -- it would really be a wonderful marriage.

MARK CARNEY, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: Having met with the owners of Canada over the course of the campaign last several months, it's not for sale. It won't be for sale ever.

TRUMP: Never say never. Never say never.

(CROSSTALK)

CARNEY: Respectfully, Canadians' view on this and is not going to change on the 51st state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN's Kevin Liptak is with us now from the White House.

Kevin, things got, I guess, respectfully tense is how I might describe it as they were talking about the 51st state thing.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes.

It wasn't the most contentious meeting we have ever seen in the Oval Office, but it also probably wasn't the friendliest. And I think that was kind of how Mark Carney was approaching this meeting. He did have this balance to strike. Obviously, he was elected just recently on this wave of anti-Trump sentiment fueled in part by this tit for tat trade war, by President Trump's ruminations about making Canada the 51st state.

The president, when he was asked about these territorial aspirations that he says, initially tried to downplay it, saying that he didn't think it would come up in the meeting at all. Then he proceeded to tick through every reason why he thought Canada should become part of the United States.

And you heard part of him -- part of him talking about that there. Obviously, this issue of trade was always going to be the biggest sticking point between these two men. It is what has caused the relationship in the U.S. and Canada to seriously deteriorate since Trump came into office, really at their worst in decades, really in anyone's memory.

The president saying in this meeting that the U.S. doesn't need Canada's steel, that it doesn't need its cars, and that it would continue to apply tariffs on those products in an attempt to boost American production of those goods, and so the president not really backing off in any way, some of the hardest-line language that he's used on trade with Canada, but also more generally.

And it was interesting to listen to him talk about this effort that is now under way in the administration to try and negotiate new trade deals with dozens of countries. You have heard officials like Scott Bessent, the treasury secretary, Howard Lutnick, the commerce secretary, saying that all of these officials are essentially flocking to the United States to try and negotiate new deals.

But when you listen to the president here, he says that, in fact, new trade deals are not going to be necessary to lower the tariffs. He is describing something of a more minimalist approach. Listen to how he phrased it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We also have a situation, because everyone says, when? When? When are you going to sign deals?

[13:05:00]

We don't have to sign deals. We could sign 25 deals right now, Howard, if we wanted. We don't have to sign deals. They have to sign deals with us. They want a piece of our market. We don't want a piece of their market. We're going to sit down and we're going to put very fair numbers down and we're going to say, here's what this country, what we want, and congratulations, we have a deal.

And they will either say, great, and they will start shopping, or they will say, not good. We're not going to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: So, the president there very much trying to characterize the United States as having the upper hand in all of these trade talks.

Of course, the president is also politically vulnerable here. If these tariffs remain in effect, prices could go up for Americans. He does also have a reason to try and reach deals with these countries that would help bring down these tariffs.

And so I think, in all, this meeting was about what we expected. It was friendly to an extent. It was contentious to an extent. It doesn't appear as if anything has changed necessarily in this sort of withering of ties between the U.S. and Canada.

But at least it does seem as if, for now, they are on something of a better footing as this new Carney administration begins up in Ottawa.

KEILAR: Certainly better than he was with Trudeau, for certain.

Kevin Liptak, live for us at the White House, thank you.

And with us now, we have CNN's senior political analyst Mark Preston and Tim Stenovec, the co-host of "Bloomberg Businessweek."

Mark, what did you think of this meeting?

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, a couple of things.

One, I thought it was actually pretty cordial, given the fact -- the contentiousness that we have seen over the past couple of weeks. I thought Carney held his own in a way that was respectful to Trump. We didn't see a Zelenskyy situation, because that would have been a nightmare.

It's really what's going to happen behind closed doors right now. The difference between Zelenskyy and other world leaders and Carney is that Carney has been a banker in the U.K., in Canada. He's worked for Goldman Sachs. The guy's a moneyman.

So Trump looks up to folks that he thinks is smart. And I do think that he has respect for Carney.

HILL: And is that -- I mean, is that where -- Tim, where you think the majority of the respect comes from?

I also thought it was interesting that, as the 51st state conversation started to happen, there was just enough flattery perhaps on the part of Carney. He said, look, I know you're a real estate guy. I know you understand this. It's not for sale.

Trying to use language, right, as the president had just talked about, that he knew the president would understand.

TIM STENOVEC, CO-HOST, "BLOOMBERG BUSINESSWEEK": Yes, I think it was clear that that question was going to come up and he was really prepared.

I also thought it was really notable when he said he'd spoken to the owners of Canada. I thought that was a really -- kind of an interesting way to put his constituents, the voters, the folks who did recently elect him as prime minister. They're the ones who told him on the campaign trail, he said, that Canada is not for sale. And, look, the president said, never say never. And then you heard

Prime Minister Carney there once again say, never, never, never, never over and over again.

KEILAR: Yes, and, Tim, he talked to the owners of Canada. He also has spoken to the head of state of Canada, right?

You have Mark Carney, who has arranged to have King Charles come and help open Parliament later this month, which is something the monarch hasn't done in almost 50 years. Trump respects the king, right? He was flattered recently by getting an invite to the U.K. by the king.

What did you think of him also saying, yes, Buckingham Palace isn't for sale, the Oval Office isn't for sale?

HILL: Yes.

KEILAR: That wasn't by accident.

STENOVEC: No, it wasn't by accident, as -- I mean, this was the question that was going to come up.

And I did think it was notable too he called him prime minister. In the past, he's called the heads of state of Canada, such as Justin Trudeau, for example, the former prime minister, he's called them governor and on social media.

And there were some questions too going into the meeting, given the post that he did make on social media about this, that kind of set the table and set the tone for the meeting. But, as you were talking about, I do think it actually started off very cordially.

HILL: It's also interesting, Mark, as we look at this, we also had -- there's been so much question about, is there a deal?

So we heard earlier today from Secretary Bessent that there are no talks happening with China, right? We don't have a deal at this point. But the president is saying there basically -- as Kevin was pointing out, really trying to show as if the U.S. has the upper hand.

The reality that there are no deals too. How is that going to impact this meeting for Canada?

PRESTON: Well, it certainly doesn't help, because if he has deals already announced, then he can say, look at so and so. Look what this country did. You need to follow suit.

Look, I think what we're going to see is, I think they're going to come out of this meeting OK. There isn't going to be a deal. There's going to be a fight and what have you. But the fact is, is that Canada needs the United States. The United States needs Canada as well.

So, look, a trade deal will happen at some point. We will see what happens with the USMC. But can I just say a couple of other things just very quickly? There was other news that came out of this that kind of blew through. One was that Trump says there's going to be a major announcement

that's going to happen, I mean, he said within the next five or six days. So I mean, whatever that means, you got to assume it's a trade deal.

[13:10:00]

But I found this very interesting. He went after Barack Obama because he said that the library is in cost overruns.

KEILAR: On his library.

(CROSSTALK)

PRESTON: He went after -- he started handicapping the 2028 presidential election, said Gavin Newsom's -- yes, he doesn't have a shot at winning the nomination.

And the last thing is Marco Rubio. He really seems to have taken a shine to Marco Rubio, calling him out, hey, Marco.

HILL: Yes.

PRESTON: He's been doing that the last couple of weeks. I think Rubio is quite on the rise in that administration.

KEILAR: And, Tim, on that trade deal announcement -- or we lost him, unfortunately.

So, Mark, here you -- it is your gain.

PRESTON: Oh, wow. OK.

HILL: We have more for you, don't you worry.

KEILAR: But on that trade deal announcement, he says -- he's making like it's going to be this big deal, right, maybe even -- I forget -- and I don't -- I want to sort of paraphrase, but he also -- not just that it's going to be a big deal, but that it could be one of the -- like, the biggest deal or something very important.

HILL: Yes.

KEILAR: There's only...

HILL: A very, very big announcement, really, really positive.

KEILAR: Exactly.

And when you look at what we're seeing with China and these goods and the fact that this is the week where port traffic into the West Coast is dropping hugely, and we're going to see that shifting to the East Coast soon, there's only one giant, big, big, very, very, very, very deal, and that would be one with China. And we don't expect that it's going to be that. How much pressure is -- he's making like the U.S. doesn't need anyone.

Well, the U.S. does. So how much pressure is he under really when we're going to start seeing the effects of this very soon?

PRESTON: Oh, he's under incredible pressure. It's only going to get worse, OK, because everything that he put into place takes time for it to come into action.

And we have seen this with the orders being stopped. We have seen this with ships coming across and being turned around or being held out at sea. So, as we head into the summer, if he doesn't get some of these deals done, he's going to feel a lot of pain.

Now, when he gets into the fall, if we don't see the economy turning around, you're going to have a lot of people that have been laid off from the federal government. You're going to have a lot businesses that are affiliated with the federal government that are going to go out of business.

And then Donald Trump is going to have to deal with an economy at that point that could be in perhaps a free-for-all. I'm not going to say it's happening. And we shouldn't will it. But even seven in 10 Americans think that we're headed into a recession.

HILL: Right.

And there are the questions about that -- how long is this, right? How long does this -- quote, unquote -- "transition period" last? Even if you understand there will be a transition, how long does the pain last, which there is no answer to, right, and administration officials certainly don't want to answer.

Tim, real quickly, before we let you go, there is the need for a deal, but then there is also the consistent moving of the goalposts, so hearing again from the president just a short time ago, saying, we don't have to sign deals. They have to sign the deals. I mean, this is reminiscent of what he said to Kristen Welker. I will set the deals.

STENOVEC: Yes, I think this is a particularly big challenge for corporate executives right now, companies and executives in the C suite who are essentially saying, OK, well, we have to make decisions about hiring. We have to make decisions about building. We have to make decisions about spending money.

And we don't actually know how much we're going to have to spend to get the goods that we're going to use to make these decisions. So there's a lot of uncertainty out there. We're in the midst of earnings season right now. And we're basically at a place where companies have cut their guidance or lowered their forecasts sort of the most in the last five years going back to what happened during the COVID pandemic.

There's just so much uncertainty out there. And that's basically the word and the theme of earnings season. The Federal Reserve is starting their policy meeting today. I expect we will got a lot of questions to Fed chair Jay Powell tomorrow about this. And that's really going to be a focus of what we hear from him. HILL: Yes, Mark Preston and Tim Stenovec, thank you both.

Also joining me now to discuss, former Trump National Security Adviser John Bolton.

Ambassador Bolton, it's good to have you with us.

When we look at where things stands in terms of these deals, as I noted earlier, Secretary Bessent saying there are basically 18 major players and they're only speaking with 17 of them. China -- there are not active talks with China in this moment for a deal. Do you think the president has underestimated China?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, I think that's entirely possible.

I think the Chinese are much better at gaming out the permutations of possible confrontations like the one we're in now than certainly Trump is. And so I think their determination not to -- not to give in to the way Trump has approached this is pretty strong.

And they have one major point of leverage over us. When American consumers are unhappy, they speak up and politicians listen. In China, when consumers are unhappy, they may not like it, but they don't speak up so much. And their leaders couldn't care less anyway. I'm not sure the Trump administration has really factored that into their thinking.

HILL: When we think about the American consumer speaking up, as Brianna was just noting, we are going to very -- in very short order, we're starting to see the impact, right?

We also have the first ships coming in not entirely full with goods now slapped with this 145 percent tariff. How long do you think it is before those consumers, before the American people do start to voice their concerns and their displeasure and that it's actually heard by the administration?

[13:15:15]

BOLTON: I think the effects of the tariff are going to play out over a long period of time.

Trump announced the tariffs in Trump time, and he changed the tariffs in Trump time. And everybody's talking about what he's done today and what he's done tomorrow, whereas what you hear from businesses all across the country is that they're pausing decisions because of their uncertainty.

And so the real effects will play out over a long period of time. And I think they will be uniformly negative. So it's not going to happen in Trump time, but it's going to play out in a way that, if there's a recession, if there are real significant negative economic impacts, they're not going to come and go quickly.

They're going to come over a long period of time and they're going to go over a long period of time, meaning as we get into the '26 election season, which I think should panic Republican members of Congress in particular.

HILL: When we look at the lack of deals here, despite promises that one is coming, they're imminent, how much do you think these other trading partners are waiting to see what happens with China or perhaps who will agree to something first? Do you think that's playing into these decisions?

BOLTON: Well, I think we have all got to stop playing the game of fascination with a deal. You got to have a deal.

All deals are possible if you surrender. And I don't think the Europeans are prepared to surrender. I don't think Canada is prepared to surrender. Trump said today, we will tell them what the terms are, and they will either say yes or no. I think they're going to say no.

So this is going to be more complicated than Trump gives the impression. And, indeed, they have even said in the past weeks that the deals that may come soon may be more in the form of memorandum of understanding about principles between countries.

At the level of the business firm, a five-page memorandum of understanding doesn't tell them anything. They want to know, what tariffs do I have to pay on what goods from what countries? And those take a lot longer to negotiate.

So I think this process is going to play out over a much longer period of time than 90 days. The real question is whether Trump has to back down in July and extend the so-called reciprocal tariffs another 90 days. And he doesn't want to do that. That's for sure. But he's not sure what else to do by the time you get there and real deals that tell American importers something are in place.

HILL: How could this -- on an economic front, right, what we're seeing play out in terms of tariffs and the trade war, how is that impacting U.S. standing when we look at other global relations, when we look at whether it's ending wars in Ukraine, in Gaza, dealing with other very important global issues?

What does this say about the U.S. standing?

BOLTON: Well, I think Trump is ripping through decades of American effort to build up good faith, trust, reliance, counting on the United States in terms of crisis.

And the economic costs of the tariffs are going to be bad, but the cost in relationship terms, particularly when you add on the vision the world saw of how he treated Zelenskyy in the Oval Office, the way he's flipped positions from Ukraine's side to Russia's side in that war, all of this is eating away, corroding these conditions of trust and good faith and reliance that we have spent so long trying to build up.

Now, they're repairable, but it's going to be difficult. And I think you saw a little bit of that in the meeting today. The leader who was backing down in that meeting was Trump. He'd already made all these nonsensical comments about Canada becoming a 51st state, never going to happen, that anybody could have told him about.

And, indeed, Republicans could give him a lot of good reasons why, well, do respect to Canada, we don't want them to be the 51st state. So he had to make those points. Carney kept his calm, made his points in response. Trump never should have said them to begin with. It's not a way, obviously, that's going to affect bargaining with Canada.

But Carney has said some strong things, unfortunately strong, that our old relationship with the U.S. is over. I don't believe that. But -- and I don't think Carney or any other world leader ought to equate Trump with the American people. But this is an example of how we have burned up, how we have just eroded trust and goodwill.

And it's -- we're going to have to work to get it back.

HILL: Ambassador John Bolton, thank you.

[13:20:03]

BOLTON: Thank you.

HILL: Delays and cancellations at Newark Airport for now the ninth straight day, and we also have the new audio of that terrifying communication breakdown leading to some of the chaos.

KEILAR: Plus, you know that little blue label that can be found on a number of appliances in your home? Well, that could soon be a thing of the past. Coming up, why the Trump administration plans to shutter the money-saving program.

And the process of picking the next pope may be starting tomorrow, but that's not stopping the pre-conclave jockeying. We have the latest from inside Vatican City ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:25:04]

KEILAR: Staff shortages, flight delays, and cancellations are still impacting travel in and out of Newark Liberty International Airport. It's a situation that's so serious that today the FAA imposed a ground delay on all flights coming into the airport, which is the 14th busiest in the country.

This comes after our previous reporting about several air traffic controllers needing to take trauma leave because of equipment failure and radar outages that made them lose contact with several planes that they were monitoring.

CNN aviation correspondent Pete Muntean is here with more on this.

Pete, tell us what else you have learned.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is pretty damning here, the flights bound to Newark today delayed until midnight tonight once again due to these air traffic control staffing shortages, now the ninth straight day of these delays.

You said several airplanes were involved here, more like 15 or 20, according to Flightradar24, in total, more than 800 flights canceled, 160 just yesterday. It's about a quarter of all flight cancellations nationwide, so a really outsized impact here.

That new audio that we're getting from LiveATC.net, along with a new statement from the FAA, are essentially confirming our earlier reporting that paints the best picture yet of how this all started. And it really goes back to an incident last Monday at the key radar facility responsible for Newark flights.

A source familiar with that incident tells me that Newark approach controllers lost both radio and radar systems for an undisclosed amount of time, meaning they were essentially trying to do their jobs blind and deaf. Now, the source also tells me that led to about five controllers taking what's called trauma leave, which legally entitles controllers to 45 days off.

It's a huge development here, and really explains the repeat delays caused by these staffing shortages. I want you to listen to the audio captured by LiveATC.net. And in it, a controller tells a smaller airplane to essentially go away because he has no ability to pick up that plane on radar. Listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: No, you do not have a bravo clearance. We lost our radar, and it's not working correctly. Radar service terminates. Squawk VFR. Change approved. If you want a bravo clearance, you can just call the tower when you get closer.

PILOT: OK, I will wait for that frequency from you, OK?

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: OK, no. The squawk VFR, look up the tower frequencies. We don't have a radar, so I don't know where you are.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: You can hear the frustration in the controller's voice there.

Flight tracking site Flightradar24 says about 15 to 20 flights were operating what's called in the blind during Monday's equipment outage. And more audio keeps surfacing online of controllers trying to reach pilots and pilots trying to reach controllers without any response.

Still no real clear timetable, though, of when these delays at Newark will end. The FAA says this about the controllers who were on trauma leave: "We cannot quickly replace them due to the highly specialized profession," meaning that you can't just drag and drop one from one place to another, so no near-term solution in sight as the Trump administration, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy, on Thursday will roll out a revamp of the FAA's air traffic control system.

But that is a years- or decades-long solution, Brianna. KEILAR: Wow, that is tough.

Pete Muntean, thank you for that very alarming reporting. We appreciate it.

And now let's see how the ground delay is causing frustration for passengers traveling in and out of Newark Airport.

We have CNN's Brynn Gingras, who is there.

What's it like today, Brynn?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, I'm just sharing all this news that Pete is getting about why this is happening and when this will be resolved. And, of course, no one is happy about it, especially the people who are trying to get on flights in and out of Newark right now.

Let me show you. We upgraded our big board for you guys. Look at all these delays, all this orange not good signs for travelers. And we're talking about both domestic and international travel in and out of Newark Airport.

Now, as you guys said, there is a ground delay today that's in effect until midnight. That means right now that planes coming into this airport are delayed for as much as four hours, not able to get off the ground and come here to Newark Airport. And we have been talking to so many passengers.

And, as you guys can imagine, there is just so much frustration and then even some anxiety when they learn what Pete is reporting, that there is some serious issues that are happening in air traffic control, compounding the issues of what's going on with all these delays and cancellations inside Newark Airport.

Take a listen to some of what we heard.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICH SCELFO, AIRLINE PASSENGER: I never liked this airport to begin with. Sometimes, you're stuck to where you have to fly in and out of. And we're leaving here on Friday for Italy. So, hopefully, things will get better by then. We will see.

DELILAH DARDEN, AIRLINE PASSENGER: We have just been here at a hotel in Jersey. So, it's been not knowing what's happening.

GINGRAS: I can see it on your face, the pain.

DARDEN: Yes. Yes. It's...

GINGRAS: Annoying.

DARDEN: Yes, very.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GINGRAS: Yes, that last woman has been delayed for two days now.