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Cardinals in Sistine Chapel to Elect the New Pope, People Expect to See the Smoke Soon; Fed Holds Interest Rates Steady Amid Trump's Trade War; U.S. And Chinese Officials to Meet This Week in Switzerland. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired May 07, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:40]

ERICA HILL, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": All eyes right now on this chimney atop Sistine Chapel, where smoke will tell the world when a new Pope has been elected. With the very latest on the papal conclave, just ahead.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": Also ahead, to cut or not to cut interest rates, that has been the question for the Federal Reserve as it faces calls from President Trump to slash rates. The decision is being announced right now. And real ID means a really long line to get one. Are you ready for this major change to get aboard your next flight? We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to "CNN News Central."

HILL: We are, of course, keeping a very close watch high above the Sistine Chapel because at any moment, we could see those first plumes of smoke begin to billow out of the Vatican Chimney announcing whether a new Pope has been chosen. 133 cardinals from around the world are now in their secret meeting known as the conclave. That is where they will elect the 267th leader of the Catholic Church. Large crowds have gathered. Look at this. The streets are packed. We are told from our colleagues on the ground there, people gathering, waiting for that announcement.

KEILAR: And the Cardinals, these electors have been sequestered. They are in there, they're doing the work. No phones, they are cut off from the outside world. If we do see white smoke rising from that chimney, it means that a new Pope has been elected. That has seen to be unlikely at this point in time, during this ballot. Black smoke would mean that no cardinal has received enough support and the next round of voting will begin tomorrow. CNN's David Culver is there in St. Peter's Square for us. David, tell us what you're seeing and what you're hearing.

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well then, I'll ask you to interrupt me if you see smoke coming up behind me, because that's where everybody's eyes are focused right now. We can't even see the chimney from this side of where we are in the Square. Technically, this is Rome. And then if you go about 50 feet more, you hit the Vatican and the crowd has poured in. You've got folks who have just finished up their work day and they're coming over here. They've brought their kids. They're meeting their family and loved ones. You've got a mix of people.

You've got young people, teenagers who have come together. You've got a mix of religious and (inaudible). It's folks who have just in this moment wanted to see what is, as some have referred to it as the end of the smoke window. So they're knowing that any moment now something should be coming up from just behind us, the Sistine Chapel.

And yet those who are in there, the 133 Cardinal electors have no idea what's going on out here. The crowd at times, they'll start clapping, they'll start cheering, and then you'll hear things and everybody will hush wondering if there's a signal coming. So, you feel that everybody's almost moving in the same rhythm right here. And it's really -- it's quite special. It's a moment. And people who we've caught up with too, including a group of young professionals, a short time ago, they said they grew up in the Catholic Church. And for them just to be here in this moment, it's something that's brought them even closer.

DILLON MCDERMOTT, CONCLAVE WATCHER: Grew up raised Catholic, went to church every Sunday, went to a Catholic college as well.

CULVER: Where'd you go?

MCDERMOTT: Providence College. But yeah, not practicing as much as I may be used to.

CULVER: Does this change it at all or does it -- do you feel any closer to the church when you're here?

MCDERMOTT: Honestly, yeah, a little bit. It's pretty spectacular just seeing the turnout and everything that's going on here.

CULVER: I had coffee this morning with a group of Dominican sisters and they said that they've been to Rome several times and this is the first time that they've been here. And they feel as though the people of Rome and anyone you interact with is so willing to engage. And they say they have folks who are coming up to them and they attribute this really, Erica and Brianna, to the division and the polarization that we're seeing in this world. And they have people who are just asking to engage on a faith level. And they said they've never really experienced that before.

HILL: That's so interesting, especially you mentioned the division in this moment, but there also has been so much talk since Pope Francis' passing about the way he was able to bring so many people together, whether they were Catholics or not. How much is that part of the conversation of people that you're talking about, what they hope to see from this new Pope?

[14:05:00]

CULVER: I had one religious sister sitting next to me a short time ago, and she looked around and she said, this is what Pope Francis wanted. A diverse crowd, a group from all walks of life coming together. And you're right, that's what we're seeing reflected in this space right now. And you have people here who have become incredibly engaged with what's happening. I mean, we have essentially big-screen Jumbotrons that are set up just beyond us, and that's where people are fixated.

But even during the s swearing in and the taking of the oath, you had cardinal one by one going up to take that oath. And when they would reflect certain countries, somebody would come up, say from the Philippines, you'd hear a small contingent start cheering. And so, it almost felt as though they were rooting for their home team in that moment. And yet, it for them is a moment to also just to see where the direction of this church is going to go. Because as I was talking to those religious sisters, it was interesting.

I mean, they're from Nashville and from Corpus Christi, Texas, and they said when they're looking at their own communities and they see that there is certainly a polarization. In fact, what we often see in a Catholic Church in the U.S. is what some have described as destination parishes. That is people will pass four or five, six churches that are nearby geographically, and they'll go to a place where they feel like ideologically they're aligned either with the priest or just with the general congregation around them.

And so, it's something that they're very cognizant of here, and they're hoping that whoever is coming in next to be the Holy Father will bring unity and bring folks really in a universal state. And that is, of course, what Catholic means, universal.

HILL: David Culver, really appreciate it. Thank you. Father Patrick Gilger joins us now. He's an Assistant Professor of Sociology at Loyola University, Chicago. And Father John Maria Devaney is a Dominican Friars and the Host of SiriusXM, the Catholic Channel. It's good to have both of you with us this hour. Father Patrick, picking up on where David just left off, there's been so much talk about the direction of this church, this theme of unity, which of course we heard in the homily this morning as well. How much is that, would you imagine, top of mind for these cardinals as they go about electing the next Pope?

REV. PATRICK GILGER, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF SOCIOLOGY, LOYOLA UNIVERSITY, CHICAGO: I think it's going to be right at the center of their attention. Although I would also say it's going to be joined by a couple of other priorities that they're going to have. So, the number one priority maybe the thing that sets this decision making process apart from the American political processes is that these men who are now gathered are really doing so in prayer. In other words, they're trying to ask a different question than we usually ask in American politics.

We're usually asking, how can we get what we want from an elected official? And in this process, these men are really asking something different. How can we do what the Lord is asking of us? And that kind of process attunes our attention a little bit differently. So of course, unity is going to be something that they're going to want to prioritize, but also really interesting and legitimate diversity, to listen to the voices of these cardinals who've gathered from all over the world, who've pastored people in all kinds of different walks of life. And they're going to bring those experiences of God and of the people of God together with one another to be able to have some of these conversations in prayer and to be able, in the end, we hope to come to a really excellent decision about who our next Pope will be.

HILL: And Father Devaney, Pope Francis was the first non-European Pope in more than a thousand years, a very long time. How much of a consideration is it where the Pope comes from when they're being selected?

REV. JOHN MARIA DEVANEY, DOMINICAN FRIARS: Well, I think, thank you for having us on, by the way, Erica and Brianna -- I think the globalization of not only the world, but it's also the pontificate since really Pope Paul VI in the 1960s, and really the post-Second Vatican Council period, the Pope is now really seen as a global figure and there's a level of just international attention that we have from the Holy Father that maybe past pontificates did not have.

So now, for the Pope to come from anywhere in the world and be not just Eurocentric, I think that's going to be pretty important. And Francis saw that, and he set the stage by electing cardinals, who had that possibility,

HILL: And as we look at this, Father Gilger, that experience, right, for the world's 1.4 billion Catholics, as they wait to see whether that next Pope will represent perhaps where they're from or make them feel even more connected to the church, what is that? I mean, what have you been speaking with people about in terms of this experience as you wait, David's talking about the energy and the unity there in St. Peter's Square.

GILGER: Yeah, it was really edifying just for me to listen to what David was saying, by the way. And I want to say that, well, I'm a college professor and so I'm in the classroom here. It's a Catholic university. I teach at Loyola in Chicago. But my students come from all over the -- all of the ecclesiological and philosophical ideological map. And I love being with them. I'm very happy to be with them. But one of the things that really unites their experiences is a deep desire to find a place to belong.

[14:10:00]

And I know that really resonates with me. That was part of the reason I joined the Society of Jesus, the Jesuits, part of the reason I became Catholic as an adult in my own life. I really wanted to find a place where I could be deeply at home. And one of the places that we can do that, one of the ways that that kind of homemaking can happen is by having someone who is like a father to us, a mother and a father to us. And the Pope really can be that.

So in some of the conversations I've been having, both with Brother Jesuits and with some of my students here are now graduating at Loyola, they've been saying that Pope Francis has been something like a father figure to them. And I think just to another point we were making before, that this is a global papacy now in ways that were not possible in the past. People, myself, and I think lots of others feel connected to this person. And I know for me, I really felt noticed, like recognized by Pope Francis. His attention to the margins helped me, who I'm not a marginalized person, but help me to feel recognized and then help teach me to go and recognize those who I would otherwise, it'd be very easy for me to overlook. So I feel very grateful for that kind of fatherly attention that Pope Francis gave.

But I have to say, I'm also very excited about the kind of parental missioning leadership that this new Pope will bring. I don't know what he's going to bring. And I'm -- I find myself actually interestingly eager to be taught by someone new.

KEILAR: It'll be very interesting. Father Devaney, let's talk timing here. We're at full disclosure. We're in Washington. We're used to politicians running late. That's just the way it is. But we did expect this sort of window of opportunity to have this signal of what the outcome of this vote would be to have happened by now, I think. So we're training our eyes still on this chimney, but we do have to note that sunset there in Rome, at the Vatican City, it is upon us. And so, I wonder what you were expecting as we keep pushing closer towards nightfall here, and we haven't seen the signal yet.

DEVANEY: I'm thinking of the same thing too. I've got my cell phone underneath my laptop here and I'm watching the chimney as well. By the way, Erica and Brianna, I don't know, it's kind of ironic you guys had a Dominican and a Jesuit on. We have an old rivalry that's about 500, 600 years old, but I think we've done all right over the last 500, 600 years.

(LAUGH)

DEVANEY: So thank you for having both of us on. It's almost like having a Democrat and a Republican on at the same time.

HILL: It's about unity, right?

DEVANEY: But you know, it's something that we have -- yeah, exactly, precisely. And if we can't have it here, then we're in the wrong business. But no, I think we have to wait. I mean, think about this, these elections only happen every so often, right? Maybe every 10, 20, 30 years. So these guys are in the room, they've -- very few of them have been part of a conclave before they want to get it right. They want to be thorough. They want to be perfect really to do something so important for the Catholic Church globally. So I think maybe that's why they're just taking their proper time. I won't say sweet time, but their proper time.

HILL: Taking their proper time and so here we are waiting.

(LAUGH)

KEILAR: I thought I imagined smoke, but I suspect I'm not the only one. Then I unimagined it.

HILL: Then you imagined it, yes.

(CROSSTALK) KEILAR: But I do think that, that everyone's thinking is this -- nope, that's not it. They think maybe they see it. It could just be a cloud or some cloud cover going by. So the wait will continue.

(LAUGH)

HILL: Yes, it will. It's great to have both of you with us. Appreciate your perspective. Father Patrick Gilger, Father John Maria Devaney, thank you both.

DEVANEY: Thanks a lot.

KEILAR: All right. We're still watching because like we said, that window of opportunity we were expecting --

HILL: Yeah.

KEILAR: -- has come and gone, but we're still awaiting the signal, so --

HILL: Seagull is back.

KEILAR: The seagull is back. I do feel that that may mean something because that's --

HILL: I do too.

KEILAR: That seagull seems to know when to show up.

HILL: It doesn't stray too far, so --

KEILAR: No, we'll see.

HILL: Maybe it's -- yeah.

KEILAR: We'll see. We'll keep an eye along with him. All right. Still to come this hour in the face of some pressure from President Trump, the Fed still leaving interest rates unchanged, not bowing to that. We'll have details ahead and in the meantime, there could be some movement on this largest question mark that is looming over the economy as the U.S. and China agree to trade talks in Switzerland.

HILL: And a bit later, the FAA announcing some changes after the meltdown at Newark Airport that put several air traffic controllers on trauma leave. See with us, you're watching "CNN News Central." We'll be right back.

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[14:19:20]

KEILAR: We do have breaking news. The Federal Reserve just revealing it will not adjust interest rates in the wake of President Trump's trade war. CNN's Matt Egan is standing by at the Federal Reserve in Washington, where we're expecting to hear from Fed Chair Jerome Powell here in a matter of moments. Matt, tell us what more are you learning? MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: No change in interest rates. The Federal Reserve deciding unanimously to keep interest rates unchanged. Now, this decision was widely expected, but it does also show that despite this immense pressure from the White House to slash interest rates, that the Fed remains very much on hold.

[14:20:00]

And this does keep borrowing costs relatively high for consumers and for businesses. Now, the Fed statement put out just a few moments ago does include some significant changes. Let me run you through them. First off, the Fed said that despite swings in net exports that have affected the data, indicators suggest that this economy continues to expand at a solid pace. And that is a reference to the fact that the GDP report, of course, was worse than expected. And it shows that the Fed is not going to overreact to any one bad GDP report.

Now, Fed officials also say that uncertainty about the economic outlook has increased further, which is notable because obviously uncertainty was already very high before this decision. Now, the most important change from the statement is that Fed officials say that they are judging that the risk to -- the risk of higher unemployment and higher inflation have risen. Now, that is significant, right? Because it really speaks to this almost impossible situation that the Fed finds itself in, right?

Because normally, if the Fed was worried about unemployment going up and job loss, they would cut interest rates. Yet they can't really do that right now because they're also aware of the fact that tariffs, that this trade war could increase prices. And so, if they come to the rescue too soon, that could also make inflation worse. Now, this decision is not likely to sit well with the White House. Of course, President Trump has been attacking his handpicked Fed Chairman Jerome Powell. Personally, he's been demanding that the fed slash interest rates. Of course, interest rates, that's not decided by the president of the United States. That is decided by the Federal Reserve and for good reason.

This is not something that politicians get to have a direct say in. Now the attention, of course, shifts to Jerome Powell. Just a few moments from now, he'll be taking questions. I am most interested in hearing what Powell says about whether or not there could be interest rate cuts at the next meeting in June, maybe later this year. And how is he thinking about the possibility that tariffs and maybe even shortages caused by the trade war will increase inflation? How is he thinking about all that? So a lot of tough questions ahead for Powell in the next few moments. Back to you.

KEILAR: All right, we'll be looking for that. Matt Egan, thank you so much. Erica?

HILL: Well, with the Fed's rate in place, attention is now turning to the impact of President Trump's ongoing trade war. Top White House officials set to meet with their Chinese counterparts this weekend in Geneva, and the president was just asked about how he sees those negotiations. Here's what he had to say. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: China says, in order to have substantive negotiations, you have to bring down your 145 percent tariffs. Are you open to pulling back your tariffs in order to get China to the negotiating table?

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: For some perspective now, I'm joined by Scott Lincicome. He's the Vice President of General Economics at the Cato Institute. Scott, good to have you. We see the president very clearly there saying he has no plans to lower this 145 percent tariff. But the reality is, we know that the goalposts have shifted multiple times when it comes to these tariffs and what the president is looking for in these deals. Do you believe that it is really a hard and fast no?

SCOTT LINCICOME, VICE PRESIDENT OF GENERAL ECONOMICS, CATO INSTITUTE: I don't. There is going to be a point I think at which, all of the things we've been seeing in the soft data out there, about businesses really concerned about a slowdown and higher prices, about ships no longer showing up at the ports, that's going to start translating into the real economy. And if store shelves start getting empty, if prices start spiking, I think there's going to be an increasing pressure on the president let up (ph)] a bit. And quite frankly, I think the Chinese government knows that as well.

KEILAR: You talk about that the first ships we know already coming into port yesterday with these 145 percent tariffs on Chinese goods, some of them half empty. When we look at this and the buildup now to this meeting coming over the weekend, this is supposed to be about, according to Secretary Bessent, this meeting with Chinese officials is about de-escalation. It's not about a big trade deal. What do you anticipate could actually come out of that meeting that would signal some form of de-escalation beyond lowering tariffs? LINCICOME: Right. I mean, I think the tariffs setting are the big

thing on both sides. But I'm not expecting much out of the first meeting, quite frankly. This appears more than anything to be a bit of a just feeling out and I think the rhetoric softening will probably be what we can hope for most, along with maybe a bit of tariff roll back. As these tariffs hit, I mean, 145 percent is simply not sustainable for a lot of small businesses, and you know, they're going to have to grapple with that reality pretty soon.

[14:25:00]

HILL: I was struck by comments from BMW, saying that it now expects the 25 percent levy on imported cars, BMW says it now expects that could be reduced in July. When we look at what is happening here, we don't have a major trade deal with any country at this point. Could it be industry-specific negotiations that are going to actually drive some of this deal making in these agreements you think?

LINCICOME: Yeah. If you look at what's been rumored for the deal with the United Kingdom, it appears this is -- these trade deals are going to be pretty much small ball. You're going to see certain rollbacks of tariffs for certain sectors like autos or steel, but it's going to be a far cry from the big comprehensive trade deals that the United States used to enact, like the NAFTA, for example, and I should note that other governments are still enacting today. And these types of agreements are about big liberalization, eliminating 90 to a hundred percent of tariffs, liberalizing services and investment, and hitting regulations and other things.

That doesn't appear to be in the cards. I mean, it's just not possible in this short amount of time. But it also doesn't appear that the Trump administration is willing to give much on some of these baseline tariffs, which will really prevent any serious liberalization.

HILL: I also want to get your take on what we just saw from the Fed, right? So rates remain where they are, but these comments, specifically about they need -- the Fed needs more data, right? We'll hear more from Jerome Powell in just a few moments. The Fed needs more data to see really the impact of these shifting policies under President Trump, but noting that the risks of higher unemployment and higher inflation have risen. Does keeping rates steady do either to combat those two major concerns?

LINCICOME: Yeah, they're in a tough spot. This is a statement that it didn't mention the word tariff, but has tariffs written all over it. And the fact is that they're in an impossible position when it comes to the effects that these tariffs are going to have on the market. And I think their best course, it's not -- it's not perfect by any means, is to hold pat until they see again, whether that soft data ripples into the hard data and what happens to prices and unemployment.

We're in a decent spot right now. The unemployment report last week was pretty good, inflation is coming up a bit, but still at a pretty good spot. So the Fed is doing the right thing, I think by simply waiting for that hard data to roll in.

HILL: We'll see if the word tariff is used at all in those comments coming up just a short time for now. Scott Lincicome, great to have you with us this afternoon. Thank you.

LINCICOME: My pleasure.

HILL: It is 20 years in the making. Do you have yours? Because today it's official, the real ID requirement for travel, air travel, it's here. We'll take a closer look at how that rollout is going just ahead. Plus, the FAA announcing several changes after last week's travel meltdown at Newark, one that left some air traffic controllers unable to speak with pilots. Stay with us.

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