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First American Pope Takes Name of Pope Leo XIV. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired May 08, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR OF "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT": -- to see?

FATHER MARK LEWIS, CATHOLIC CHURCH HISTORIAN: No, no, I was pretty clear that I didn't think I would ever see a U.S. Pope, so this pleased (ph) surprise for me. As a Jesuit, it's -- I have a sort of sense of happiness, of passing the papacy from the Society of Jesus to the Augustinians. I think a very fine order. I think they'll have a -- the very -- we will be very blessed by this Pope.

BURNETT: The message -- yes, go ahead.

LEWIS: Other things I can add message. I think, the generosity of the U.S. is strong. No, I think the generosity of the church in the U.S. is represented in sending people to the missions. And this is a very clear example of someone who is from the U.S. but is also very much a Latin American and that has also given great service to the church in Rome.

BURNETT: What message do you think the cardinals were sending with this decision? And I know it's a complicated question and there are many different answers to it, but we are in the midst of a historic moment with the United States choosing to sever so many of its relationships and challenge them around the world. That for these cardinals, the most diverse group from the most number of countries in the world, to now at this moment for the first time, pick an American. That is this moment in history too. You really cannot separate the moment that we are in from the history being made.

LEWIS: Correct. I think, several cardinals that I've heard speak talked about putting aside the question of nationality, some of it came up in the sense of whether we would have another Italian Pope or whether somebody couldn't be a pope from this place or that. I think, it seems to me that the message of the cardinals is that nationality is not a concern, it's the quality of the person. And I think even more so in the case of someone who has been serving the church in so many different places. This is clearly someone whose personality is recognized much more than his nationality or the languages he speaks even.

BURNETT: All right. Well Father, thank you so much. I appreciate you taking the time and being with us in this historic moment. And Father Beck, let me come back to you. I know you, as you think about the positions of Pope Leo XIV and when he talks about a missionary church, he talks about building bridges, he talks about Pope Francis. Sorry, I'm just turning as you're seeing some celebrating in the crowd here. What do we know Father Beck? What do we know about where he stands on some of the most crucial issues that the cardinals had to make a decision? Did they want to continue to move forward to progress as a church or did they want to go a more traditional route?

FATHER EDWARD BECK, ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIEST: Well, there are a couple things that I note. I think he is a bridge builder, as he said. As you'll note the garments, we talked about, well, what will he wear when he comes out? And it was a little more traditional than Pope Francis wore, which will please some to say this bridge between those who have been kind of more liberal, more progressive, more conservative, that this man is somewhat in the middle.

He spoke about the synodal church though, so the coming together of various opinions, and so we know he's in that mold. I was very struck by the fact that he thanked his old diocese in Peru. He said to that they shared their faith with me that he learned from the people he worked with. So we know all of that. I was struck that on some issues, because he's American, that some issues that have been important to the American Catholic Church, in particular, the LGBTQ issue will be interesting to see because I looked at a quote in 2012 that he gave to -- that The New York Times said, and he lamented the sympathy, I'm quoting "for beliefs and practices at odds with the gospel like homosexual lifestyle and alternative families comprised of same-sex partners and their adopted children."

Now, that was a year before Pope Francis was elected that he said that. So now, he's gone through this whole process. He became head of the dicastery that picked bishops throughout the world. So, a lot of them know him because he helped pick them with Pope Francis. So, has he evolved even in some of these positions as a bridge builder? Would he say the same thing about LGBTQ issues that he said in 2012 or like Pope Francis, has somewhat evolved to say, how do we now reach out in a way that's going to be even more inclusive? I think all of those things will be interesting to see as we see this Pope evolve and develop.

[14:05:00]

BURNETT: Yes. All right. And Father Beck, of course, staying with us. Christopher, there is, as Father Beck is pointing out, looking at something that Pope Leo XIV had said on homosexuality over a decade ago, but a dozen years ago. There's a lot that we do not know about where he stands on issues that matter to many.

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah.

BURNETT: Catholics around the world.

LAMB: That's right. And in some ways, he's a slightly unknown quantity. He's not been scrutinized in the way that other very high- profile church leaders might have been. Now, obviously to have got the support of 89 Cardinals in --

BURNETT: At least 89, right? LAMB: Sorry.

BURNETT: To get --

LAMB: At least 89.

BURNETT: Yeah.

LAMB: To have got that two-thirds majority. He's going to have needed to have appealed to a kind of cross-section.

BURNETT: Yeah.

LAMB: -- of people, cardinals who perhaps are more conservative will have needed to have, I think, got behind him. At least some of them will have done. So, we obviously need to look carefully at what's being said, what he said in the past. I do know though that Pope Francis respected him and thought of him very highly. He, first of all, appointed him a member of the Dicastery for Bishops, which chooses bishops, and then a few years later, made him the prefect.

So clearly, Pope Francis saw in him, something, he saw him as a capable leader and he has this role. He has had this role, leading that Vatican office for bishops that gives him a lot of insight into the church globally. So he's been involved with appointing bishops. He's been involved in deciding who the church leaders should be across the world. Got a lot of information about the church. That will stand him in good stead as Pope --

BURNETT: Yeah.

LAMB: -- for carrying out reforms and for leading.

BURNETT: Father Beck mentioned what he was wearing, that as he -- when he came out, he chose to wear more traditional, here more traditional --

FATHER SAM SAWYER S.J., PRESIDENT AND EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, AMERICA MAGAZINE: The Red cape that's called a mozzetta.

BURNETT: Right. As -- different than Pope Francis had chosen to do.

SAWYER: Yeah.

BURNETT: When you look at how he appeared, what do you see, Father Sawyer?

SAWYER: So I think I see two things in that. First, it's a return back to tradition. This is how Popes have normally appeared at this moment for as long as we've had the visual record and the media of it. But I think the other thing that he's saying is that he's not going to try to clone Pope Francis' pastoral style. So, the warm way he spoke, the way he approached people and greeted us before he gave his blessing, I think that certainly echoes back to Francis. But he's not going to try to exactly copy Francis, which I think is a very good thing. LAMB: Big question will be where he will decide to live.

SAWYER: Yes.

LAMB: Is he going to live in Santa Marta or is he going to go back to the Apostolic Palace? We'll have to watch that.

BURNETT: Well, Pope Francis had, of course, (inaudible) the --

LAMB: That's right. Pope Francis had decided not to live in the palace.

BURNETT: Yes.

LAMB: But live in Santa Marta. Will Pope Leo XIV do the same? That's kind of a big moment -- big decision, sorry.

BURNETT: So what happens now? I mean, he's supposed to have dinner with the cardinals.

LAMB: That's right. And they --

BURNETT: They get their phones back.

(LAUGH)

BURNETT: They see the response to this.

LAMB: Yes.

BURNETT: And then at some point, presumably, he goes to bed alone. I mean, he has to be with his thoughts and his -- but where? Where does he sleep tonight as the new Pope?

LAMB: Well, he has to make that decision pretty soon. I mean, they're going to have a dinner. That dinner I imagine will be in Santa Marta. And then he will have to make that first decision, where -- where am I going to live? And he's the Pope, he can pretty much decide within reason.

BURNETT: Well, he can't go home.

LAMB: He can't go home.

(LAUGH)

BURNETT: This is now home for him.

LAMB: He can't leave the Vatican, but he can make -- he has a bit of flexibility, but I don't know. What do you think?

SAWYER: I wonder actually, if it's possible, he might end up back in the room he was in, in Santa Marta, if they don't have time to turn everything over between now and then.

LAMB: Yeah, exactly. For tonight. And then maybe he might -- SAWYER: Yeah. Just for tonight.

LAMB: -- he may make a decision in a few days time. He's not someone who will make a rash decision. He's going to think about it. So I imagine it will be Santa Marta tonight. And then as time goes on, he might --

BURNETT: You keep emphasizing the word thoughtful. And I will say, just watching him as we all did it, he did exude that.

LAMB: Yes.

BURNETT: That there was a deliberateness in a thoughtful way with what he had chosen to say. That he had taken his time, clearly --

LAMB: Yeah.

BURNETT: -- to write it and to prepare something to say. That's why it took more than an hour.

LAMB: Exactly. He had put a lot of thought into that speech, and he'd written it out. He listed who he wanted to mention, the people, the Diocese of Rome, the Diocese in Peru which he led, reference to his membership of the Augustinian order, all those things. So, he was being very deliberate in this first speech that he gave on the balcony of St. Peter's.

[14:10:00]

BURNETT: And for those just joining us at this historic moment, Father Sawyer, the first American Pope, history has been made today at the Vatican in Rome, in the Sistine Chapel, and we now have Pope Leo XIV. So Cardinal Prevost of Chicago is now the first American Pope. In the blessing, in the address, as he addressed and we don't have the formal numbers, I would say, Christopher, well north of 50,000 people, whatever capacity is of this St. Peter's Square it was at.

LAMB: Yeah. I think -- well, yes, sure.

BURNETT: Yeah, I would think that was -- what did you hear? And in these remarks that he clearly wrote in the hour between his election and his appearance.

SAWYER: One thing I certainly heard was the appeal for peace and the message of peace. So at a time when the world seems to be on fire in so many places, when we seem to be heading away from peace in so many international situations, the last message the College of Cardinals sent to the world before they went into conclave was this appeal for peace. And then here's this, the Pope from the United States, the Pope from the world's superpower coming out and speaking for peace in his first address to the world. I think that's a really powerful symbol.

BURNETT: Yeah. Well, they would've gone into this, even in the brief sequestration that they had, Pakistan and India were shooting each other's planes out of the sky.

LAMB: Yeah.

BURNETT: There was attacks. Right? That situation is perilous.

LAMB: Yes.

BURNETT: All of that changing in just the hours that they were sequestered.

LAMB: Absolutely. And it was clear that the cardinals wanted a Pope who would be able to speak into these situations, who was going to be a voice for peace. And of course, on Sunday, Pope Leo XIV will be giving his first Angelus address and prayer where he will probably reflect on things that are going on in the world. So, he'll have an opportunity on Sunday to speak about these crises. And I think the cardinals were very clear that they wanted a Pope who has credibility as a moral voice on the world stage.

BURNETT: So Father Sawyer, what -- how quickly does everything settle and change here? We're now in this moment, this seismic change in history, and then tomorrow, the world wakes up, there is a new Pope. So then does -- what -- what happens?

SAWYER: So, I mean, one of the things that will need to happen, technically, all the various officials of the Vatican, all the heads of the dicasteries and departments, almost all of them lost their office with the death of Francis formally.

BURNETT: Yes.

SAWYER: So they'll need to be reappointed. I mean, many will be reappointed to the same offices that they're in, but effectively, he has to set up his curia, his administration, and figure out those appointments. So that's certainly one thing that'll be happening. Another major thing that I know I'll be looking for, Pope Francis was scheduled to make a trip to Nicaea.

LAMB: Yes.

SAWYER: To celebrate the 1,700th hundredth anniversary of the Council of Nicaea, a major ecumenical moment. And I'm hoping that Pope Leo will keep that trip. And so, he'll be making a first international trip pretty quickly actually.

BURNETT: Yeah.

SAWYER: If he keeps that appointment.

LAMB: Yeah. And I imagine he'll probably want to look pretty seriously about doing that trip.

BURNETT: Well, he's relatively young.

LAMB: Relatively young. He's in his late 60s. And so, it could be a papacy that goes on for several years.

BURNETT: Yes. I mean, you could be looking at decades. SAWYER: Yes.

LAMB: Yes.

BURNETT: Which is a bit different than we have seen for the prior two popes.

LAMB: Yes. And the last two popes, of course, Francis was 76 when he was elected. Benedict, I believe, was 78.

SAWYER: Yes.

BURNETT: Yes.

LAMB: They've gone for someone really a decade younger.

BURNETT: Yes.

LAMB: Which is significant. They really do have immense confidence in this man.

BURNETT: Confidence and commitment at this incredible moment in history that has just been made here at the Vatican in Rome. Our coverage continues of the first American pope, Pope Leo XIV, with Brianna Keilar and Boris Sanchez after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:18:47]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": Welcome, I'm Brianna Keeler with Boris Sanchez. And for the first time ever, an American priest has been elected Pope.

Cardinal Robert Prevost of Chicago choosing the name Pope Leo XIV and moments ago, the new leader of the world's 1.4 billion Catholics spoke before the thousands who packed St. Peter's Square. His first words not in English, but the language of the Vatican, of course, Italian.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE LEO XIV (through translator): I am a son of St. Augustine, Augustinian. Augustine who said, with you, I'm a Christian, and for you a bishop. And I think in that sense, we can all walk together to that homeland, that home which God has prepared for us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": The cardinals at the Vatican electing this new Pope on the second day of their secretive conclave.

[14:20:00]

Pope Leo XIV is 69 years old. Once again, the first American pope in the church's nearly 2,000-year history. CNN's Erin Burnett is in Rome and witnessed the moment that the crowd learned that an American cardinal had been named the new Pope. Erin, I imagine the sentiment there is electric right now.

BURNETT: Electric and so hard to describe, but before we knew who the Pope was, you had tens of thousands of people, the crowd at capacity here. We don't yet have the final numbers, very safe saying it was well over 50,000. It was just jammed in. And they simply -- when they heard there was a Pope, there was this outpouring of celebration. And then person after person told us, I am so happy. Just those simple words. A man from France, a woman from the United States, they -- I am so happy. It did not matter who the Pope was.

And then as we are sitting here and the Pope comes out and everybody has their phones up and we hear the habemus papam, we have a Pope, and the Cardinal announces who it is. I mean, the roar goes up from the crowd and also just a complete and utter -- people were stunned. People were stunned. It was incredible to watch a moment in history. This is not something that anyone expected. And yes, Cardinal Prevost, now Pope Leo XIV had been among those that had been seen as a frontrunner.

So, we had a list of 18 possible frontrunners, he was on it. But he wasn't the one that everybody was talking about. It was a long shot. It was something you did to talk to Americans about how maybe there's the possibility of an American Pope, but nobody really took it seriously. They thought it might be an Italian. The frontrunner even included Cardinal Tagle of The Philippines. And of course, Cardinal Parolin here of Italy. And then Prevost, when you heard that name, it was stunning.

And there aren't very many moments in our lives, in the careers that we have where we get to see a moment like this of history being made in such a surprising and stunning fashion. And that's what we saw. And now, Boris and Brianna talking to people who have known Pope Leo XIV and worked with him for over 25 years, in some cases, not a single one has said anything other than I never thought I'd see the day. Not that I wouldn't see my friend, and also, that they never thought that they would see an American pope.

And history has been made. At this moment in history when perhaps some would say the last thing you would pick is an American pope, and it has been done. And it is truly an incredible moment that we are witnessing here outside the Vatican in Rome, Boris and Brianna.

KEILAR: Yeah. No, it really is. Erin, thank you so much for that. If you can stand by for us, let's go now to New York. That is where CNN's Brynn Gingras is, she's outside of St. Patrick's Cathedral. Tell us how people there are reacting, Brynn.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Brianna, I got to tell you, the church bells were chiming for over an hour and people were just flocking here to St. Patrick's Cathedral to go inside to pray for this new Pope. They actually opened the big doors behind me to allow for more people inside. I actually talked to a woman who was in a mass when they announced the new Pope, and she says it was almost like a little Vatican inside. Everyone just started screaming. And then when they learned it was an American, there were tears and emotion of prayers for this new Pope. But I now want to introduce you to someone who actually has some sort of connection to the new Pope. He's a Villanova grad, just like Pope Leo XIV is, and graduated with our new Pope.

BRIAN KERWIN, WENT TO COLLEGE WITH POPE LEO XIV: Graduated same class, 1977.

GINGRAS: And I love that your Villanova friend chat chain is just blowing up right now.

KERWIN: Yes, everybody is exceptionally excited, family, there's numerous chains.

GINGRAS: I didn't introduce. So you're Brian Kerwin.

KERWIN: Brian Kerwin.

GINGRAS: You lived from New Jersey.

KERWIN: Yeah.

GINGRAS: But you came here to St. Pat's not even knowing that he was the new Pope. Let me -- give me -- walk me through the emotions you had.

KERWIN: Well, on the way into the city, I'm supposed to be at a meeting right now. The -- I knew the white smoke had come out. My girlfriend who is actually Peruvian was the other connection. And then, I was going to come over to St. Pat's. The bells were ringing, like what a better place to be regardless of who the Pope is. And then I found out it was -- it was my classmate, couldn't be more excited.

GINGRAS: I mean it really is quite the connection. You didn't know him in college, you said, however it feels like you almost know him. You said you were praying for him. You want to go in there and pray for him.

KERWIN: Yeah.

GINGRAS: Tell me what you're feeling just about this moment in history.

KERWIN: The fact that, when I started seeing -- when he was mentioned, I think CNN mentioned him, The New York Times, that there might be a chance for an American Pope. And then I started looking at him and his background from the Chicago and the South Peruvian. And he spent so much time in Peru. Seems the perfect guy. And that he's from Villanova because I heard if you went to class with the Pope, he kind of helps you get to heaven.

(LAUGH)

[14:25:00]

KERWIN: So yes, I was praying very hard.

GINGRAS: All right. Excellent. Now, finally go into St. Pat's and say you prayer. I know you've been wanting to. Thank you so much for talking with us.

KERWIN: Yes, thank you. See you.

GINGRAS: But yeah, it's been quite an emotional -- just, it's amazing out here. I got to tell you guys, even so far from Rome, people just came here and just had to be here sitting on the steps, watching their little phones, trying to see who that next Pope would be. And when it was announced that it was an American, everyone just started, it's American. It's American. Everyone just started screaming here. It was quite the exciting moment.

And people now just talking about how they just have so much hope and so, excitement for where the Catholic Church, where this leader of so many people, is now going guys.

SANCHEZ: A historic moment. Brynn Gingras, thank you so much for that update. Let's go to Chicago now. And Father John Lydon. He's an Augustinian Friar and was Prevost's housemate for 10 years in Peru. Father, what's your reaction to finding out that your former housemate is now Pope Leo XIV?

REV. JOHN LYDON, HOUSEMATE OF POPE LEO XIV FOR 10 YEARS: Well, it's just incredible. It's a great blessing for the church. As you mentioned, we lived and worked together in Peru for a decade. We were in the same community and it's just a thrilling thing. He is a tremendous person. I know him very well. We're good friends. And even picking the name of Leo, the sign of the Catholic social teaching of the church, a continuation of Pope Francis' legacy. All this is just a great blessing that the Holy Spirit has given to the church, and I'm thrilled about it.

KEILAR: He is actually as well as an American, he's a Peruvian national. He has Peruvian citizenship, spent so many years in Peru. And I wonder if you can talk a little bit about that, because I think it's long been thought that no, there won't be an American Pope. America has this outsized role in geopolitics. The Pope isn't also going to be American. But it seems that it might be his experience in Peru that helped perhaps allow people to see him as someone who isn't just an American, that he also represents the global south. Talk a little bit about the work that he did there in Peru and how you see him kind of spanning the global south and the global north.

LYDON: Well, definitely, he's a bridge. He's always been a bridge builder. In Peru, where we lived in Trujillo, he had great outreach to the poor. Our parish there had, part of it was a very poor part of Trujillo. He always made conscious decision to make sure that the poor were attended to sacramentally and we had soup kitchens for the poor as well. So, his heart is there with the poor. He is very intelligent. So he had different roles in Trujillo, was a professor. We were both professors at the seminary there. And then, he was called to -- back to the United States as provincial, and then to Rome with our prior general. And then he was named the Bishop of Chiclayo, Peru. Many don't know this, but that diocese was run from its beginning by Opus Dei, which is a very more closed vision of church. And Pope Francis, obviously, when they named him to go there, wanted someone who could connect with that part of the church, but bring it also more open. So, I think he'll be a real bridge builder in the church, one that understands the legacy of Pope Francis, the dedication to the poor, and the Catholic social teacher. I'm sure that's why he picked the name Leo, to tie into the first Pope that gave us the Catholic social teaching of the church.

SANCHEZ: And what does it mean, father, that he is an Augustinian?

LYDON: Well, interesting. He cited St. Augustine, one of St. Augustine's famous words when St. Augustine was named a bishop, he says, with you, I am a Christian. For you, I'm a bishop. So his -- St. Augustine was saying, the most important thing is we're together as Christians. So once, Pope Leo used that citation of St. Augustine, I think he was trying to say the same thing, with -- I'm -- for you, I'm the Pope, but with you, we're all Christians together, we're all going towards the Lord together, and that means we need a dialogue. And he mentioned the synodal church, which actually that's what it means, a church of dialogue, of walking together, of diversity. But, walking towards the common goal of peace and love, which is the message of the gospels.

KEILAR: How do you see him in relation to the role of Pope Francis? I get --