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Elon Musk: "Without Me, Trump Would Have Lost the Election"; Trump: "Very Surprised" at Elon Musk's Criticism of Policy Bill; Senate GOP Struggle to Respond to Musk's Calls to "Kill the Bill"; Soon: Flamethrower Attack Suspect in Court as New Video Emerges; Trump Defends New Travel Ban: "It Can't Come Soon Enough". Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired June 05, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:01:46]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: Happening now a very public blow-up between President Donald Trump and his biggest donor and one-time close ally Elon Musk who just said if it were not for him, President Trump would not be president.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: I mean a big bad very public breakup.

DEAN: Yes.

SCIUTTO: President Trump who just days ago was handing Elon Musk a golden key to the White House is now threatening to terminate all of Musk's government contracts all of this over Musk's fierce criticism of Trump's so-called Big, Beautiful Bill. Trump just moments ago wrote on his Truth Social, quote, "Elon was wearing thin, I asked him to leave. I took away his EV Mandate that forced everyone to buy electric cars that nobody else wanted, that he knew for months I was going to do, and he just went CRAZY." And then, Trump went a step further, "The easiest way to save money in our Budget, Billions and Billions of Dollars is to terminate Elon's Government Subsidies and Contracts. I was always surprised Biden didn't do it."

With us now CNN Chief National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny and Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju.

First, Jeff, listen folks have been betting on a breakup at some point between the two. I don't know if folks were betting on quite an ex as explosive a breakup as this one.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: They weren't. And it was less than a week ago when Elon Musk was in the Oval Office. We were at the White House watching this unfold. But the sense of unease inside the White House and surprised this week when Elon Musk started going after this bill.

And, you know, we've seen it coming for a little bit. He talked about how he was concerned about the spending. But this is something extraordinary and the President has been unusually quiet all week long. Today was the first time he took questions from reporters and boy did he unload, talking specifically about how he says he didn't need Elon Musk.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Elon endorsed me very strongly. He actually went up in campaign for me. I think I would have won - Susie, I would say I would have won Pennsylvania easily anyway. And I'll tell you, it's not - he's not the first. People leave my administration and they love us, and then at some point they miss it so badly and some of them embrace it and some of them actually become hostile. I don't know what it is. It's sort of Trump derangement syndrome, I guess they call it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, one thing left out of all of that and it would take a lot of dissecting is that $275 million, that is what Elon Musk spent just in Pennsylvania. Jessica, you well remember this. We all spent a lot of time in Pennsylvania. It's always a very close day.

DEAN: Yes.

ZELENY: Trump would not have won it easily, his advisors are well aware of this. So, what does this happen - where does this go from here? Elon Musk responded in a tweet moments after that as though he was watching and he obviously was. He said, "Without me Trump would have lost the election. Democrats would control the House and Republicans would be 51 49 in the Senate.

So, does any of Elon Musk's criticism of this bill actually have an effect? That's what we don't know.

[15:05:00]

But it certainly - I've talked to a variety of officials. Republican advisors believe it's not going to change votes in the Senate. But what it does, it gives Rand Paul and others who are making the argument, it's too expensive. It's not focusing on the debt. It really adds some fuel to that fire. So, we shall see. I'm not sure we know where this is going, but what if he spends money trying to tank this bill or whatnot?

My guess is that tempers will cool. They'll move on to other things, but I don't know.

DEAN: We just don't know, that's the thing. We're going to have to wait and see exactly what happens. Jeff Zeleny good to see you. I do want to go to Manu, because Manu as Jeff just pointed out now eyes - it's all started over this legislation that has moved out of the House is now with the Senate. And as Jeff so correctly points out, there are some senators who've been making this case about the deficit. They're very concerned about these numbers and now suddenly there's a lot more fuel on that fire a lot more attention.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, no question about it. And if the Senate were to pass this bill, it goes back to the House because they're going to make some changes in the Senate. And there are those Republican hardliners in the House who had raised concerns about this bill raising the national deficit. And if this bill comes back, either the levels that they pass in the House or perhaps if they in the Senate water down or change some of the spending cuts don't go as far on the spending cut side, that could lead to some problems in the narrowly divided GOP-led House.

Now, I spent the last couple days talking to Republican senators about the concerns about the deficit about what Elon Musk had to say and even ones who are expected to support this plan are raising concerns about what Elon Musk is saying, that this bill could raise the national deficit and could saddle the country with its unsustainable debt.

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RAJU: Are you worried about the what Elon Musk is saying here about that this bill could really drive up the national debt?

SEN. TOMMY TUBERVILLE (R-AL): It was going to drive up the debt. I mean we, it's - all you got to do is look at the numbers. It's going to continue to grow and what - in 20 years it's going to go $20 - $33 more dollars, we can't afford that to happen. Okay, the "Big, Beautiful Bill" is big, not a lot of it is beautiful. Some of its beautiful. But again, when you mix it all together, it just makes it that much harder.

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): The way - the level that Mr. Musk is operating, I can't really respond to that.

RAJU: But something is up, are you concerned about the blowback? He's warning you guys.

TILLIS: I don't - Manu, you ought to - I don't worry about blowback. I do policy I believe in, move forward and expect to get elected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And that Sen. Thom Tillis who's up for reelection, could be a tough race in North Carolina next year. He's going to be one of the votes to watch here. But there are some of those more conservative members who are still opposed to this bill. Senator Ron Johnson just told me moments ago that he is opposed to this bill. Senator Rand Paul also is opposed. There a handful of other more, someone on other side, there are more moderate senators like Lisa Murkowski who has raised concerns, wants changes to this bill.

So, a lot of work needs to be done to get this to the President's desk by their goal of July 4th, guys.

SCIUTTO: And yes, I actually think some Republican lawmakers running but not just next cycle but the one after that they can't draw or may not be able to draw on Musk's checkbook anymore and that can't make them too happy. Manu Raju, thanks so much.

DEAN: And joining us now, CNN Senior Political Analyst and Bloomberg opinion columnist Ron Brownstein. Ron. Good to see you.

I do want to point out another tweet.

RONALD BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, Jessica.

DEAN: Again, this continues to go on, but Elon Musk saying on X some food for thought as they ponder this question. Trump has three and a half years left as president, I'll be around for 40 plus years. And this is just going to keep going, which is I think people can you know watch a food fight and a fight between these two billionaires, but practically what kind of impact might this have on that legislation that Manu was just talking about?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. And like at one level, Jessica, right this is the most predictable celebrity breakup since I don't know Tom Cruise and Cher, Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor. I mean, you - we knew we were going to get to this day sooner or later. But I think it does have important implications both for the bill and also Trump's response in terms of revealing the way he views the federal government.

I mean, you know for Trump to Respond so quickly by talking about terminating contracts for Musk really is revealing about how he is transforming the government really all of its machinery into a mechanism for rewarding friends and punishing adversaries on - in every possible way. I mean, and it is striking how quickly Musk moved from one category to the other and the threats that are imposed on him.

And then on the bill itself, I think it's important to understand that Musk's criticism like much of the criticism in the Senate is coming from the right, when the real political - the biggest political vulnerability of the bill may be from the left or the center. Musk isn't, you know, is basically saying it doesn't cut spending enough and therefore is increasing the debt, it has enormous spending cuts in it.

[19:10:04]

It also has a - extension of the Trump tax cuts and new tax cuts that cost about $4 trillion over a decade. That may be the real political vulnerability, but Musk like Rand Paul and Ron Johnson are not really focusing on that. They're focusing - they're arguing it's not cutting spending enough when historically cutting programs that benefit the middle class to fund tax cuts for the rich have been a very tough proposition to defend politically.

DEAN: Yes, it is kind of a scrambled, you know, conventional wisdom of where people would traditionally fall for sure I want to stay on this idea though that you're talking about with the President threatening to cut ...

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

DEAN: ... Musk's contracts saying, this is a real issue. Now, suddenly, it is I guess a conflict of interest. So, a lot of people had been concerned about that and criticized Musk's position in the government. And now, the President is willing to entertain that, to your point, just this idea of using the government to punish somebody.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. I mean, look - I mean, everything has become situational. I mean, you know, you have federal investigated - a federal regulatory agencies dropping investigations of crypto even as the Trump family's financial ties to the industry grows, dropping criminal charges against Eric Adams because he says - in part because he says he's going to comply with the Trump immigration agenda, meanwhile arresting a judge and a member of Congress who are opposing it, you know, look at what's happened - just to the executive order yesterday, investigating the - demanding an investigation of Biden officials on this argument that somehow they use the auto pen to make decisions he was unaware of.

I mean, basically across a - all the tools of the federal government are being deployed in a very personal way, not against a kind of backdrop of objective standards but really around the compass of who is with us and who is against us. It's the kind of thing that Nixon talked about with his enemies list but was ultimately blocked by doing - from doing by many inside his own government.

I think it's a very revealing moment the way Trump chose to respond to Musk. Like I said, this was - no one thought this was a relationship that was going to go on forever. Trump has not had permanently alliances with anyone whose last name isn't also Trump. But the way this is unfolding I think is very revealing of both sides. And one in which could pose problems for the Republican Party if Trump - if Musk indeed wants to spend money from the right, pushing this bill further to the right at a time when its principal political vulnerability may be from the other direction.

DEAN: Yes, it is - it'll be fascinating to see.

All right. Ron Brownstein, thanks so much. Good to see you.

BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having me.

DEAN: Still to come, the man charged after an anti-Semitic attack in Colorado is said to appear in court this afternoon, while a judge is blocking the government's efforts to deport his family members to Egypt. We're going to have the very latest on that.

And an exclusive CNN investigation on the deadly shooting near an aid distribution site in southern Gaza that left dozens of Palestinians dead. We have that and that's more coming up on CNN News Central.

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DEAN: In a few hours the Egyptian national suspected of trying to burn Jewish protesters alive last Sunday in - will be in a Boulder, Colorado courtroom Mohamed Sabry Soliman facing 16 charges of attempted murder. Video of the father of five has appeared online showing him before the attack, but CNN has not been able to verify its authenticity. A law enforcement source saying Soliman recorded multiple videos in English and Arabic as well as writing thoughts in a notebook. CNN's Whitney Wild has the latest on this.

As we await this hearing, Whitney, what are we expecting later today?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, we think this is going to be a pretty short hearing, Jessica. And we think this is just basically an administrative hearing. What is going to happen now is the return of the filing charges, which means that the prosecutor's office is going to present what is basically their final list of charges which could change in the future. But for now, their final solid list of charges to the judge. It is not clear whether or not the judge is then going to read back every charge.

As you mentioned, there are dozens of charges here. As you had said, there's 16 for attempted murder alone. There are 16 more just for the charges surrounding the incendiary devices, the Molotov cocktails he did not detonate, two charges for the incendiary devices he did detonate. So, the list of charges in state court is long and we've said it before but it bears repeating if he is convicted and given the maximum sentence for those charges, that could result in - on paper hundreds of years behind bars, in practicality a life sentence.

Finally, Jessica, we are learning more about his family. What we know now, according to court filings, is that they have been transferred from Colorado to Texas. This is his wife and five children. Their ages are between 4 and 17 years old. They have not been charged with a crime.

Soliman had told law enforcement once he was arrested that nobody had any idea he was going to commit the attack he later committed. Even still, federal officials are investigating whether or not that family knew anything. That's according to the Department of Homeland Security. Further Jessica, in the court filings, that is filed by an attorney on behalf of the Soliman family, his wife had said that she was shocked by what she saw.

Right now, there's an open question about what is their fate and the White House had previously said that they were going to be deported and deported quickly. However, a federal judge has halted that deportation effort. So, again, this remains an open question. As far as this federal hate crime charge, Jessica, we expect he's going to appear in federal court tomorrow. Jessica?

DEAN: All right. Whitney Wild with the very latest. Thank you so much for that update. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Well, White House officials have cited the suspected Boulder attacker, an Egyptian national, is one reason President Trump overnight reinstated a broad travel ban.

[15:20:06]

We should note, however, Egypt not on his list. Twelve nations, however, are. The President targeted countries in Africa, the Middle East and Caribbean. Citizens from seven other countries will see partial travel restrictions. The President just a short time ago defended the move.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The countries that we have don't have things under control. And why now, I can say that it can't come soon enough, frankly. We want to keep bad people out of our country. The Biden administration allowed some horrendous people and we're getting them out one by one and we're not stopping until we get them out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: With us now is Shawn VanDiver. He is the president of AfghanEvac. We should note Afghanistan on the President's travel ban list.

Shawn, thanks so much for joining.

SHAWN VANDIVER, PRESIDENT, AFGHANEVAC: Hey, Jim. Thank you so much for having us today.

SCIUTTO: So, first, I wonder if you could talk about the personal side of this. The President says he's keeping bad people out. The fact is that's not true of all or even most of the cases based on your experience. I've dealt with Afghan families attempting to come to the U.S. And the experience of aid organizations in this country.

What are the real-life consequences of the prolonged separation for people have been waiting for their family members to come join them here.

VANDIVER: Jim, I'm so glad you asked that. There are 12,000 people who have been separated through actions of our government, who have been waiting for more than three and a half years to almost - nearly four years and just a couple of months it's going to be four years that they've been waiting to be reunited with their families. And that means that if you're a high school freshman, you've graduated from college while your mom and dad are still stuck in Afghanistan, in danger, potentially being tortured by the Taliban.

It means that if you're a parent here, your baby has grown up from ages one to four. That's too much.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

VANDIVER: It's too much.

SCIUTTO: The other thing taking place is the shutdown of the Afghan relocation efforts, care, and what's known as the Enduring Welcome program. These are key initiatives that supported specifically Afghan allies who served alongside U.S. forces. Tell us the consequences of the ending, the termination of those programs.

VANDIVER: So, Jim, thanks for asking about that. This Enduring Welcome was built by AfghanEvac, other veterans organizations, civil society at the table with the Biden administration and it represents our safest, most secure legal immigration pathway our country has ever had. It was - at its peak by January 20th 2025, we had 28 flights a month carrying 5,000 Afghans a month out of Kabul to safety in third countries, and then processing in those countries and coming here once they passed vetting and security measures.

The executive orders that President Trump issued on day one shut that down to a halt and this executive order, I think, we're supposed to celebrate that there's an exemption for SIVs and that's great, but they've been simultaneously defunding, deprioritizing and firing - defunding the programs, deprioritizing the programs, firing the employees.

So, now, even though Afghan SIVs can technically come here, it makes it impossible for them to reach our shores unless they're wealthy and well-connected. And this shouldn't be a - evacuation of the (INAUDIBLE) ...

SCIUTTO: The SIVs, for folks who don't know, this is a special visa program that remains for people who served alongside U.S. forces. But to your point, there's an enormous backlog of thousands of them. It takes a long time to get through there.

A contradiction has struck me in the Trump approach to this, because it ended temporary protected status for Afghan refugees arguing ...

VANDIVER: Yes.

SCIUTTO: ... that Afghanistan was no longer so dangerous, yet now the justification for banning entry to this country is that Afghanistan poses a terrorist threat? How do you reconcile those two seemingly contradictory positions?

VANDIVER: Well, Jim, you can't. On the news last week, I tried to - or a couple weeks ago I invited Secretary Noem to go with me to Afghanistan. I lined up the plane. She could put on one of her cosplay outfits and we could go and she could she could check out and see if Afghanistan is safe for her as a woman or she's not allowed to have her voice heard, or she's not allowed to work, or she's not allowed to barely exist.

There's just no squaring it, because it's not based on logic. It's based on politics. And look, Jim, there are 3,000 individual family members of active-duty U.S. military who are stuck in the refugee pipeline. They can't move. President Trump knows that something. They haven't moved them. There are 200 trapped on a U.S. military base that we run, the United States government runs in Qatar. Those people are stuck there. There's 1,500 people there where 200 of them are active- duty Military family members.

[15:25:00]

And if your viewers want to help, if they want to help us keep fighting, they can go to afghanevac.org/donate and help us keep fighting, because we have to keep sounding the alarm about this. We have to make Congress remember that they are a co-equal branch of government and we're not going to rest until they do.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And it's such an important point, because the President is in effect tarring everyone with the same brush. I mean, you're talking about family members of people, not only who served alongside the U.S. forces in Afghanistan, but of current serving U.S. military members.

Shawn VanDiver, we do appreciate the work you and your organization are doing. Thanks so much for joining.

VANDIVER: Thanks so much, Jim, appreciate it.

SCIUTTO: And we'll be right back.

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[15:30:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

SCIUTTO: Breaking news, a very public breakup between the richest man in the world, Elon ...