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Interview With Martin Luther King III; Trump Deploys National Guard in Los Angeles. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired June 09, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: The president deploying the National Guard and calling for more arrests in Los Angeles, as police declare all of downtown an unlawful assembly area, the chaos sparked by tense protests over immigration raids. New comments from President Trump could also inflame the standoff between the president and the state's governor.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Plus, a former girlfriend of Sean "Diddy" Combs back on the stand for a third day of testimony. She details the control that Combs had over her and why she felt obligated to perform in sex marathons.

And heavy metal, millions of pounds of military hardware heading to Washington in preparation for a parade on Saturday that has been a dream of President Trump's, but with serious questions about the cost.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: Happening now, hundreds of National Guard troops on the ground, as Los Angeles braces for more potential protests, so far, officials saying the situation today is calmer after an extremely volatile night.

And now President Trump upping the ante in his administration's fight with California Governor Gavin Newsom. Here's President Trump just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would do it I were Tom. I think it's great. Gavin likes the publicity, but I think it would be a great thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Overnight, night police clashing with demonstrators who for days have been protesting immigration raids, entire freeways shutting down, as cars and trash cans were set on fire.

Flash bangs and tear gas were deployed, as police say that protesters threw Molotov cocktails and fireworks directly at officers. In all, dozens were arrested, as L.A. was declared an unlawful assembly area. But it's the use of troops triggering a new fight.

Governor Gavin Newsom vowing to sue President Trump, accusing him of -- quote -- "illegally deploying the National Guard," saying the president, in doing so, -- quote -- "flamed the fires."

CNN's Julia Vargas Jones is live for us in Los Angeles tracking the latest.

Julia, what are you seeing there?

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're still seeing a heightened police presence here, Boris.

Just beyond this police line behind me, there are also National Guard troops. And they are guarding the federal building that hosts the -- well, ICE, USCIS, as well as the detention center that has been the focal point of all of the action in downtown Los Angeles over the last two or three days really.

And we're just also steps away from Highway 101. That's where we saw those stunning images of the highway frozen with protesters and those images of the self-driving cars on fire. But now it's as if that had never happened. It's like two Los Angeles facing each other, normal life going on, while, in downtown, this cordoned-off area is like protesters just plow through it.

There's graffiti everywhere, but all of this because they said they were angry at what they called a federal government overreach by carrying out these large-scale immigration raids in parts of Los Angeles. And that feeling of powerlessness, that feeling of lack of control that moved so many people to want to voice their opinions in a peaceful manner also led so many to take to acts of violence and vandalism that were condemned by local authorities.

Mayor Karen Bass saying that violence, destruction and vandalism were not to be tolerated, but that this was also an intentional chaos, and she blamed the president for fanning the flames on this one. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAREN BASS (D), MAYOR OF LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA: If immigration raids had not happened here, we would not have the disorder that went on last night. I will tell you that it is peaceful now, but we do not know where and when the next raids will be. That is the concern.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VARGAS JONES: And we have heard from Homan that these raids will continue. He said in an interview that that will be every day.

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And he also said that the city is burning (AUDIO GAP) for that Boris. Governor Gavin Newsom also calling for peaceful demonstrations, saying that violence is unacceptable, but, as you mentioned, also planning to file that lawsuit against the Trump administration, all of this while we're expecting more raids and raids to continue and potentially seeing more rallies popping up as these go on.

SANCHEZ: Julia Vargas Jones live for us in Los Angeles, thank you so much.

Of the 2,000 National Guard troops President Trump deployed, about 300 are currently on the ground. There are also some 5,000 active-duty Marines that are preparing to deploy.

CNN's Josh Campbell is monitoring developments for us in Los Angeles.

So, Josh, what are the rules of engagement for the National Guard soldiers there?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That is a question we're still waiting to be answered.

And the administration isn't saying. In fact, when the president was recently asked, he sort of dodged the question saying, essentially, we will see what happens. But that is a basic component of any military operation. You want to know, what are the rules of engagement? What are the circumstances under which a member of the military might be able to use force against the citizenry?

We know, based on the protests this weekend, these members of the Guard are out with their M4 rifles that appear to be fully armed. So there remains that question about what they're -- what they can do if it comes to that.

Now, yesterday, we saw relative calm during the day. That began to deteriorate just around 1:00 downtown. I believe we have some video of this confrontation where you see a line of National Guard members come out and essentially start pushing back this crowd that was becoming increasingly agitated. They were trying to make room for a convoy of vehicles that were coming in.

But then you see the National Guard there essentially opening on the crowd with pepper spray and rubber bullets, alongside other federal agents. And then, again, things just deteriorated from there throughout the night, Boris.

SANCHEZ: And, Josh, as we hear the president and others in the administration refer to these protesters as insurrectionists and even as paid agitators, you have some new reporting on the actual makeup of these crowds. Where's this information coming from and what are you learning?

CAMPBELL: Yes, it's interesting.

Even as law enforcement is working to try to quell some of the violence we saw, different teams of law enforcement analysts were trying to assess who's in this crowd. And, essentially, we're looking at a hodgepodge, if you will.

You do have protesters out there who have been protesting against the administration's immigration policy. Obviously, this -- these federal arrests recently sort of kicked all of this off. But you also have a group of people who are protesting because of the very presence of the National Guard members who have been deployed here by the president against the state governor's will, and then, finally, an important group.

As we look at this, there are what law enforcement sources describe as professional protesters, essentially people who thrive on confrontation with police that they believe have been interspersed in the crowd as well. And so it is never a good thing when public safety and politics come into tension.

This has been a full-on collision, with the Trump administration, obviously criticizing what we're seeing here on the streets, the governor trying to say, look, we have got this. Just let us work on this.

But we will see what happens after this. But I don't think we can broad-brush all of this as unlawfulness because people are upset with an immigration policy. We're learning that the makeup of the crowd is actually much more complex, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Josh Campbell, thank you so much for that reporting -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Let's talk more now about this with Ken Cuccinelli. He's the former acting deputy secretary of homeland security during President Trump's first term.

Ken, thanks for taking time to be with us today.

And, first, let me ask, because you did raise it on social media, do you think that President Trump should invoke the Insurrection Act?

KEN CUCCINELLI, FORMER ACTING DEPUTY SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, that is effectively a function of available resources.

So if they -- when they fully ramp up what they think is the optimum number of National Guardsmen, and if they still aren't quelling the violence, then yes is the short answer, just as it was done in L.A. back in 1992. And so that's what that tool is for.

And the president has made it clear that, unlike his first term, he's willing to use it. I would -- and I think we all take him seriously on that. He's already moved National Guardsmen in a way he did not during the riots in 2020.

I can tell you, if you think of Portland, Oregon, where we had 340 officer injuries in the summer of 2020, 340 officers injured, and the governor wouldn't -- Governor Brown there would not bring in the National Guard, and President Trump didn't override it, as he has the authority to do, as he's doing here. You all mentioned several times...

KEILAR: I hear you, Ken, but I want -- you raised a very serious thing, so I just want to ask you. You said the Insurrection Act, it's really a matter of available resources.

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I think -- I don't know that that's how a lot of people would read it. Are you saying that it's really just a matter of if they don't have enough Guard, then they can go ahead and deploy active-duty military, like these Marines have been readied, and that's OK because of the Insurrection Act?

CUCCINELLI: That's exactly what the Insurrection Act says.

There are four reasons under the Insurrection Act that the president can deploy military under that act. Insurrection is only one of the four. That's the name of the act, but that's only one of the four bases. And, yes, just what I said. If federal resources are otherwise insufficient to deal with the -- whatever the circumstance the president sees, he has full authority to, under the Insurrection Act, utilize active-duty military to participate in addressing that situation.

And, here, we're talking about violence in the streets of Los Angeles. He absolutely has the authority to do it, just as President George Bush did in 1992.

KEILAR: This would be significantly different than 1992.

But I do want to ask you, because sending in federal troops here, against the governor and the mayor's wishes, as you're well aware, George H.W. Bush, Governor Pete Wilson wanted that to happen, so he wasn't doing the exact same thing. You're well aware of that.

How does the Trump administration then mitigate the risk that what it's doing could actually inflame the situation?

CUCCINELLI: So, of course, there's differences between every circumstance. So please don't lecture me on that.

If they want to mitigate the circumstances, the -- coaxing as much cooperation as you can get is obviously step one. That's not going to happen with the mayor and the governor. They have made that very clear. The governor is going to file a useless lawsuit against the president. This is well-litigated ground.

The president is going to win that lawsuit. But when you don't have any cooperation locally, you're left working on your own. When I listened to the mayor in your broadcast here earlier say, well, if they just wouldn't enforce immigration law, this never would have happened, what a ludicrous thing to say.

If you just won't enforce the law, we wouldn't have these problems. Yes, well, if you weren't a sanctuary state, maybe it wouldn't be so bad. I mean, we can go back and forth all day on those pieces. But the federal government is charged with enforcing federal law.

So the president is really doing his job. And the fact that it continues to escalate in Los Angeles to a degree it hasn't anywhere else yet is unfortunate. I don't think anybody wanted this to happen, including the president, but he's also not backing down, as he did in the first term in terms of not using the options he has available to him.

And I agree with you. Going to the next step of utilizing the authority on the Insurrection Act would be another step up the ladder of seriousness. But he's going to do what he believes is necessary to finally bring peace to the streets of Los Angeles.

KEILAR: I do want to ask you about something the mayor said.

And just to be clear, Ken, because I wouldn't want you to misunderstand me. I'm not lecturing you, but we do have a lot of viewers who may not understand the specific circumstances under which these Guard members have been called up. So we do just need to be clear. You brought it up twice, making it seem very similar, and I just want them to understand there is a distinct difference here.

The mayor did say this on CNN earlier today. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASS: It's an escalation that didn't have to happen. Why were there raids? We have been told that he was going to go after violent criminals. It wasn't a drug den. It was a Home Depot. It was places where people are working.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Ken, what do you say to people who distinguish between undocumented people who work and pay taxes and undocumented people who are members of Tren de Aragua or committing a violent crime in other means?

CUCCINELLI: So, there's two reasons to deport the latter and one reason to deport the former.

Even to date, even with the Trump administration, the mayor is correct that they have emphasized illegal aliens who've committed other crimes because of the public safety benefit, obviously. But, even to this day, less than half of the people that they have been processing for deportation in the second Trump administration have been also criminals.

That's about somewhere -- I don't know the numbers in front of me, somewhere between 2.5 and 5 percent of the total illegal population. That's a small fraction of it. It's a high-impact fraction of it. But unlike their predecessors and even the first Trump term, they're not ignoring all of the others as well.

[13:15:00] So -- and I think it's wildly unreasonable of the mayor to lament the president enforcing the law, as if it's doing wrong in some way. It's just outrageous.

KEILAR: And, as you said, there's one reason to deport one group and two to deport another.

You have long called illegal immigrants invaders, I think for almost 20 years now. Are they all invaders, even if they are holding down a job and raising their kids to be upstanding citizens?

CUCCINELLI: So what I speak about is the border crossing.

It used to be that the majority of illegal immigrants here came in legally and overstayed visas, like we just saw with the terrorist in Colorado. That used to be the majority of illegal aliens here until about 10, 12, 15 years ago, when the border crossings really took over. That's what I refer to as the invasion.

The state governors actually could stop it on their own borders if they chose to do so. None have chosen to do that yet. And so I view them all as being appropriate for deportation. There's different levels of moral culpability among the population of illegal aliens, for sure.

But at -- when it's all said and done, they're here illegally. They're depressing wages that poor American people could have. And we have seen that actually play out when worksite enforcement actually happens.

KEILAR: The chief of LAPD was asked, and I'm sure you're aware of this, but, again, maybe our viewers aren't and I want them to know Ken, was asked if L.A. needs the Guard. He said he would need to know more about what their capabilities are, what their intended role should be.

Does that raise concerns for you that you have this, the chief of law enforcement in Los Angeles, who says, yes, they are overwhelmed -- he is not dismissing outright the need for the Guard, but he appears to have some legitimate concerns about deconflicting with the Guard? Does that raise concerns for you?

CUCCINELLI: Deconfliction is always an operational priority. These are allied forces for law enforcement. And, yes, you want as much coordination and communication and deconfliction as you can possibly get.

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KEILAR: So then what is the role? What can the Guard do? What can they not do? Speak to his concerns.

CUCCINELLI: Let me finish.

Well, it's not clear to me, because the police are politically hired. The chief works for the mayor and the city council, is not an independently elected sheriff, like you would find conducting law enforcement in other communities perhaps. And so there's a political impediment here.

And you and I have talked a bit about how the mayor has approached this. That's a major impediment to that communication. I'm sure there is communication, but you always want it to be ideal and free-flowing. The mayor said -- has made it clear, all her statements are clear, that if she has information about ICE efforts in Los Angeles, she's not going to be cooperative. She's going to do everything she can to undermine it.

And the police work for the mayor. It makes for a very difficult situation, one where the law enforcement officers on both sides, whether they be Guard, whether they be Marines, if they come in later, whether they be Los Angeles Police Department, they all do have to take extra efforts to coordinate with one another.

And it's less efficient and it's less safe, not just for the officers, but for the communities as well. So, people getting in the way of that communication are making these communities less safe.

KEILAR: Well, thank you for outlining just how dangerous this situation is.

Ken Cuccinelli, thank you so much for being with us.

CUCCINELLI: Good to be with you, as always.

KEILAR: Still ahead: The last time that a president deployed the National Guard without a request from the state's governor was actually 60 years ago. That is when troops were sent in to protect a march led by Martin Luther King, Jr. MLK's son will join us to talk about the parallels between then and now.

Plus, emotional new testimony from the Diddy trial, we are following that.

And Israeli forces intercepting an aid ship headed for Gaza. We're going to bring you that story ahead.

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KEILAR: President Trump's decision to deploy federalized troops in the National Guard to Los Angeles is highly unusual.

We have only seen this done a handful of times in our nation's history. And there is one very specific reason why Trump's action here stands apart from other times that presidents have called up the Guard. And we will touch on that in a moment.

First, though, let's go back to when the president was first granted this authority. Congress authorized this presidential power in 1792, according to the National Guard, to help repel foreign invasions and suppress domestic insurrections. A little more than 70 years later, President Abraham Lincoln orchestrated the largest federalization of state militias using this power.

He called up 75,000 troops to fight for the Union against the Confederacy in the Civil War. And then, later, he had them support Reconstruction efforts after the war. The Guard also played a major role during the civil rights movement in the 1950s and '60s.

In 1957, President Dwight Eisenhower famously deployed the Guard during the desegregation of Central High School in Little Rock, Arkansas. The Guard kept the peace during similar battles at other schools, including at the University of Mississippi in 1962 and in 1963 at the University of Alabama and other public schools in Alabama.

The Guard was called on again during the 1967 Detroit riots and then in 1968 after the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. More recently, the Guard responded during the Los Angeles riots of 1992 when parts of the city exploded after a jury acquitted four white police officers in the beating of black motorist Rodney King.

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Then-President George H.W. Bush approved a request by California Governor Pete Wilson to help quell the riots. Those are riots that resulted in more than a billion dollars in property damage and were one of the worst civil disturbances in U.S. history.

And here is why this current mobilization of the Guard stands out. It's not being done at the request of the governor. The last time that happened was 60 years ago in 1965, when President Lyndon Johnson did so to protect civil rights demonstrators marching in Alabama -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Let's discuss the latest from Southern California with civil rights advocate and global humanitarian Martin Luther King Jr. III. Also with us is civil rights advocate Arndrea Waters King.

Thank you both for sharing part of your afternoon with us.

Mr. King, first to you.

I wonder what your reaction is to the scenes unfolding in Los Angeles and the deployment of the National Guard.

MARTIN LUTHER KING III, PRESIDENT & CEO, REALIZING THE DREAM: Well, first and foremost, thank you for the opportunity.

It is -- obviously appears to be an escalating situation. And the unfortunate part is, from a political standpoint, the politics is very tough. I think that enforcing the law and peaceful demonstrations always are warranted and welcomed. People should be allowed to protest. My father used to say the greatness of America is the right to protest for rights. And that is what people are doing.

But peacefully is the key. When things may escalate, then there has to be a different direction taken. And we see this escalating in a very serious way. And we haven't figured out a constructive way to address it. The governor says one thing. The president says another.

Somehow, there has to be a working together.

SANCHEZ: And, Mrs. Waters King, I wonder how you see that personal political battle between the president and the governor of California and local officials playing out in a way that makes this something beyond civil disobedience and the violence that we're watching unfold in the street.

ARNDREA WATERS KING, CIVIL RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Well, I think you said it in the introduction to this piece. The last time that the National Guard was called in, not by the governor, was in -- a governor -- was in 1965.

In that instance, the National Guard was called in to protect people that were demonstrating for all of our rights, for greater America, for all of us, with a governor that was a segregationist and was not going to protect that right.

Fast-forward to 2025, you have people that were protesting using their First Amendment right, protesting for freedom of speech. And with the National Guard being called in, now we have an escalation that did not -- it did not have to get to this level.

SANCHEZ: And I wonder where you see the line between maintaining order and that idea that tensions are escalating, because, for some folks, this is a very personal issue.

And if they're side by side trying to demonstrate peacefully with folks that are not being peaceful, how best does a protester manage that situation? How should they approach it?

WATERS KING: Well, first and foremost, we really don't know who the agitators are that are coming in. It might be outside.

What we do know is even the chief of police there talked about the fact that maybe at some point it would be warranted for the National Guard, but to let the LAPD let it play out. What we would say to any protesters is certainly to make peace, to stand for peace and justice and equity.

But we also have a responsibility to call out truth. And it does seem that there has been an intentional inflammation of this process. There seems to be an intentional (AUDIO GAP) drawing and creating chaos. The demonstrations up until the National Guard were called in were overwhelmingly peaceful.

It was people standing up for people that they felt were (AUDIO GAP) in the country. All of us, if we're technical, are immigrants, other than Native Americans. The greatness of this country is the fact of our diversity. It is -- and it also is standing up for people who are afraid.

Right now, we have a weaponization in immigrant communities all around this country. You have mothers that are afraid to go to work, to send their children to school, to even go to church. And people were coming up to stand up for a better way of all of us coming together and standing in community.