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Dr. Noel T. Brewer is Interviewed about the Elimination of a Vaccine Committee; Next Round of Iran-U.S. Talks; Immigrant Citizens and Immigration Policy; Thunberg Departs Israel. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired June 10, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D-CA): Trump and Stephen Miller, his immigration czar, have been very disappointed in the number of detentions that they were able to achieve. So, they decided to ramp it up and to really create a crisis, not only in California, but in other parts of this nation, as they have made a major, effort to go into communities, whether it's sanctuary states, communities, or any other community, and rip out what they think are the illegal immigrants. And, certainly, they are not finding criminals. They're finding people that are hardworking, family members. Some of them are in school. They've created fear all across this country as they have attempted to increase their numbers to, what, 3000 detainees a week. They were not even a tenth of that, three or four weeks ago.

So, they've amped up, ramped up their own what they call enforcement, and in doing so, have created very significant blowback, certainly, in California and in other parts of this nation.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. We are seeing the protests erupt in other places. But I do want to go to some polling that our Harry Enten has mentioned this week. Looking across polls, Americans have been largely approving of President Trump's moves on immigration, including some of the nitty-gritty that you were seeing where going into places that normally would not be raided, they seem to be okay with that. What do you say to them who say, look, this is the law of the land, the federal government should be able to do what it has to do, if you're in the country illegally, you have to be removed?

GARAMENDI: Well, certainly, this has created a confrontation, in Los Angeles, California, also, but also in other states. The question here is who are they actually detaining and who are they then deporting? Trump was very, very clear during his campaign that he was going after the criminals. And he used very, specific language in describing that.

That's not where they are today. They're looking for students, students in colleges, students perhaps even in high schools. They're looking in the churches, they're looking in the -- actually at the ICE, at the various traditional proceedings, immigrants that are appropriately and correctly going into the judicial system to clear or to handle whatever questions they may have. They are being detained as they are attempting to carry out their legal responsibilities of meeting the immigration laws. So, it's really gone really to a different level here. The result of it is the kind of protest that you see. What I would hope happens is what appears to be the case now in Los Angeles, that the state and local police are able to maintain control and that this whole thing quiets down. Protests are perfectly appropriate and legitimate, but they have to be peaceful protests. They cannot be violent. They cannot be throwing rocks and bottles at the police. That is wrong, and those people should and probably would be arrested.

So, peaceful protests about the immigration policies and other Trump policies are appropriate, and we've seen that across the nation. The pushback on the 14th of June, no Kings Day, there're going to be demonstrations everywhere. Will they be immigration-focused? Probably not, but in some cases, undoubtedly, that will happen.

But these are protests against the general policies and specific policies of the Trump administration. That's legitimate. That's guaranteed by the Bill of Rights that we have the opportunity to do those protests legitimately and with appropriate notice to the local police.

SIDNER: Yes. Congressman, in talking to some of the local folks here, some of the local leaders here, there is a great deal of fear in the city, which is also bringing people out to the streets. They feel it is unjustified to, for example, take in children and families, and everyday workers. So, we will see how this transpires. I know you are watching closely. We will also see what happens when the president deploys those 700 Marines and we see them here on the streets of Los Angeles.

Congressman Garamendi, thank you so much for taking the time with us this morning. I really appreciate it.

John.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'll take it. Coming up for us still this hour, HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. suddenly fires an entire panel of vaccine advisers and experts. One of them will be our guest to talk about the impact of this unprecedented move now.

And President Trump says Iran is asking for things that you can't do as they prepare to return to the negotiating table over Iran's nuclear program.

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[08:39:36]

BOLDUAN: Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has made another unprecedented move. He forced out all 17 members of a vaccine advisory committee on Monday, known as ACIP, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. He came out in an op-ed in "The Wall Street Journal," and in it Kennedy writes, "under my direction, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services is putting the restoration of public trust above any pro or anti-vaccine agenda."

[08:40:03]

And also, saying, "today we are taking a bold step in restoring public trust."

Now, this panel has a lot of influence, historically having guided the government's vaccine recommendations. And it also must be said, Kennedy was one of the nation's leading anti-vax activists before becoming the nation's top health official. This committee's 17 members are experts, not political appointees. They are pediatricians, immunologists, epidemiologists, other physicians and scientists, and usually serve for four years. Now they're all gone.

Joining me right now is one of the now former members of ACIP, one of the 17 committee members forced out yesterday, Noel Brewer, a professor of public health and health behavior at UNC.

Dr. Brewer, thank you for being here.

DR. NOEL T. BREWER, UNC GILLINGS DISTINGUISHED PROFESSOR IN PUBLIC HEALTH: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: What is your reaction to this?

BREWER: It was deeply surprising. No one really saw this coming. There were some questions about some members who had had their status become inactive for periods of time because of administrative problems, but this is really very surprising to all of us.

BOLDUAN: How did you find out? How did you and the entire committee find out that you had essentially been fired?

BREWER: Well, one of your journalist colleagues sent me an email and shared the "Wall Street Journal" article. And so that's how I found out was through an email from a journalist.

BOLDUAN: Wow. I want to read for you some reaction from a couple of prominent scientists as well to what RFK Jr. is doing with this.

Dr. Richard Besser, who said, "nobody has done more than Secretary Kennedy to sow unwarranted doubt about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines. This decision demonstrates a complete lack of caring about the health and safety of every American."

And Dr. Tina Tan is the president of Infectious Diseases Society of America, and she wrote, "unilaterally removing an entire panel of experts is reckless, shortsighted and severely harmful."

What do you think this is going to mean for public health, the critical work and the data that you and your other committee members analyze and go through? I mean do you think this is going to do harm.

BREWER: Any time there's something going on with vaccines, we should be thinking about three audiences. First and foremost, we should be thinking about the public. I don't know that the public is going to have a way of understanding what's going on here. Some people who care a lot about public health will get the gist that this is a problem, and this is not really helpful.

The second audience is physicians and other health care providers. Those are the folks who deliver vaccines, but also their advice on vaccines is the single most important influence on a decision to get a vaccine. And we've lost them. So, ACIP's credibility with physicians and other health care providers has just disappeared overnight. It needs to be rebuilt carefully and methodically, and probably over time. The question becomes, what happens now with those -- with those recommendations. It may be that another organization is necessary that's outside of the government to establish credible and independent vaccine recommendations.

The third group, of courses, is lawmakers of varying kinds and people who set policy. Those folks have to also understand that there are consequences to every decision.

BOLDUAN: Well, wiped out overnight in that trust. And -- and everyone knows -- any parent knows the single most important person that you trust when it comes to these decisions is your pediatrician for sure when it comes to your children.

RFK Jr., in this announcement, and he writes at length, he accuses the panel and its members of quite a lot. It centers around accusing many of you all of -- the way he wrote it is of the panel being plagued with persistent conflicts of interest and that most of ACIP's members have received substantial funding from pharmaceutical companies, including those marketing vaccines."

I mean essentially the way he lays it out over and over in this article is essentially saying that the committee is corrupt and can't make an unbiased recommendation. Can you respond to those accusations?

BREWER: I really don't have a way to have a conversation with the secretary of Health and Human Services. That's -- he's a political appointee who is doing his best given his goals. And many of us in public health have different goals.

The goals for ACIP have always been to have independent and very strong, clear, scientifically based recommendations. And they've achieved that over many decades.

The specifics about conflicts of interest are somewhat technical, but the most important thing is that you can't have any. If you have conflicts of interest, ACIP is not for you. That's not a committee you should be on. You should go somewhere else.

And so, the current members have essentially no conflicts of interest, except maybe one or two who had either some recent or ongoing funding or were doing some kind of advisory work.

[08:45:03]

And that is clearly stated on the CDC website. So, there's no invisibility here. And I recall clearly one of our members on the committee stepping aside from one or two decisions on recent -- a recent meeting. So, I mean --

BOLDUAN: I even, just last night, went on the CDC's website to look at those potential conflicts of interest of current and past members, because there is so much vetting and so much transparency when it comes to this.

Doctor, thank you very much for your time. Quite a 24-hours this has been, but I really appreciate your work. Thank you.

BREWER: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, new this morning, the White House and Iran say a new round of nuclear talks will take place this weekend. This will be the sixth round. Major sticking points remain. Iran insists on its right to enrich uranium. President Trump has said Iran cannot have that.

Let's get to CNN's Kylie Atwood for the latest on efforts to bridge this impasse or not.

Kylie, what are you hearing?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the announcement that this sixth round of talks was coming came from President Trump himself, indicating that there is a certain level of personal vigor behind keeping up the momentum in these talks, John. So, that is significant.

However, as you said, there are still key differences between the two sides. And President Trump noted those during his remarks yesterday when he announced that these talks would be continuing.

Listen to what he said on that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, they're just asking for things that you can't do. They seek enrichment. We can't have enrichment. We want just the opposite. And so far they're not there. I hate to say that because the alternative is a very, very dire one, but they're not there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ATWOOD: Now, the Iranians said yesterday that they are finalizing their response to a proposal that the U.S. side put on the table during the last round of talks, which was the fifth round of talks. And the Iranian deputy foreign minister for political affairs significantly said that they expect that their response is going to be reasonable, that it's going to be a basis for conversation.

I want to read to you a specific element of what he said. Quote, "our plan is definitely not a sentence or a paragraph that can easily be translated into a no. There are definitely things in this proposal that show our seriousness,."

And what's significant there is that we have consistently heard pessimism from Iranian officials over the course of these Iran talks. And, more recently, we have heard some optimism from them, that they can get to a yes. But elements of what the U.S. put in that proposal last week, a few weeks ago, aren't necessarily going to get them to where they need to get.

The U.S. is proposing investment from the U.S. in Iran's nuclear power program, and a consortium of enrichment inside Iran. But that enrichment inside Iran wouldn't last for forever. And that is where, of course, this key disagreement continues to lie.

John.

BERMAN: Be curious to see where this goes next.

Kylie Atwood, terrific reporting. Thank you very much.

So, some violence on the streets of Los Angeles. In the meantime, a political standoff between a president and a governor. We've got a new look at who is winning the battle of public opinion.

And the loss of a funk legend. Sly Stone, the driving pioneer behind Sly and the Family Stone, such good music, passes away at the age of 82.

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[08:53:01]

BOLDUAN: So, we are standing by to see what a new day brings in Los Angeles. With the city bracing for a fifth straight day potentially of protests to be breaking out in downtown Los Angeles against the administration's ramped up ICE. raids we've seen playing out.

Also, we've seen similar protests breaking out in cities across the country over the administration's immigration crackdown.

So, where is the country's voters on this issue? CNN's Harry Enten took a look at the numbers around, interestingly enough, how immigrant voters feel about immigration and the immigration crackdown. Where do you want to start?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Yes, let -- let's just sort of start off on the fact that immigrant citizens, immigrant voters, foreign-born voters, have gone tremendously to the right on this issue in 2024 and 2025 versus where they were in 2020. Closest to or trust more on immigration. You go back to 2020. Democrats, get this, held a 32-point lead on this issue. Immigrant voters were in the Democratic camp. Jump forward to 2024, 2025. Look at that shift. A 40-point shift to the right among immigrant voters. Republicans now lead on this issue by eight points over Democrats, more so than any other group that I could find. The group of voters who became more hawkish on immigration were, in fact, immigrants themselves, immigrants who are registered to vote in this country. BOLDUAN: So, that's on that issue. How about how they feel about kind

of traditionally, historically about Donald Trump?

ENTEN: Yes. So, you know, you see this shift and you go, what is going on underneath the hood? Well, take a look. Donald Trump, you remember when he first ran back in 2016, immigrant voters were one of his weakest spots. But look at this, Trump's vote share in presidential elections among immigrant citizens, those who are registered to vote, look at this, 2016, he got 36 percent of the vote. You go to 2020, 39 percent of the vote. Look at this, in 2024, all the way up to 47 percent of the vote. Some polls I looked at had him barely losing that vote. Some polls I looked at had him barely winning that vote. Again, there is no bloc of voters that shifted more to the right from 2020 to 2024 than immigrant voters.

[08:55:02]

And Donald Trump, at least in some surveys, actually won that vote. On average, it's about equal.

So, there may be all this stuff, right, about undocumented immigrants and Trump being harsh on them, but immigrant voters themselves have increasingly liked Donald Trump and have increasingly moved to the right on immigration and into the Republican camp.

BOLDUAN: Well, then on that -- what you're getting at, how -- how -- how immigrant citizens, voters, feel about people in the country illegally.

ENTEN: Yes. And this is where it all kind of comes together Kate Bolduan. Look at this, the net favorable rating, immigrants who are here illegally, among immigrant citizens, again, those registered to vote. In 2020, look at this, plus 23 points on the net favorable rating. But look at where we were in 2024, minus six points. Underwater. So, immigrant citizens have become increasingly unfavorable in their views of those immigrants who are here illegally. So, I think it's so important when we're talking about this debate from a political angle to separate those out who are undocumented immigrants versus those who are here legally and those who are citizens and those who are voters, because that group of voters has felt increasingly distant from those immigrants who are here legally.

And so, again, when we're talking about this, at least from a political angle, this is why Donald Trump feels so comfortable, because, in fact, amongst the group that you would think that would be most opposed to this, in fact, they become increasingly favorable, not just towards -- just towards Donald Trump, but towards the Republican point of view on immigration and becoming distant from those immigrants who are here illegally.

BOLDUAN: Yes, an important baseline to consider as this -- as this plays out in Los Angeles.

ENTEN: Yes. We'll see where we are in a few weeks.

BOLDUAN: Yes, thanks so much, Harry. John.

BERMAN: All right, police in New York arrested 24 people at Trump Tower who were protesting the administration's widespread immigration raids. Police say those folks walked into the lobby of Trump Tower and refused to leave.

Overnight, Russia launched one of its largest drone attacks yet on Ukraine's capital, 315 drones. At least one person was killed, four others injured. Seven districts in Kyiv were damaged. High rise buildings, homes, cars, warehouses, all burned. Officials say a maternity ward in the southern port city of Odessa was also hit. At least two people there were killed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SLY STONE AND THE FAMILY STONE (singing): I am everyday people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That is Sly and the Family Stone, one of the great bands of all time. It's leader, Sly Stone, a musical pioneer, has died. They were at Woodstock. Also key players in the Summer of Soul. "Everyday People," you're listening to it right there, "I Want to Take You Higher," "Stand," "Dance to the Music," such great songs. I can go down deep, Sly and the Family Stone, hole sometimes. In a statement his family said he battled with COPD and other health conditions. Sly Stone, a true great, was 82.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Left some greats behind for all of us to continue to enjoy.

Thanks, JB.

We're going to turn to this right now. This morning, climate and human rights activist Greta Thunberg has left Israel, flying to France and then on to her home in Sweden after being detained by the Israeli military. She and other activists were intercepted on a ship by the IDF while they were on an aid ship bound for Gaza.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is live in Jerusalem with the very latest.

And what's the latest here, Jeremy?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, four of the 12 activists who were on board this ship known as the Madleen, attempting to break the Israeli naval blockade, four of the 12 have now left Israel and have either arrived or are en route back to their home countries. That includes Greta Thunberg, who arrived in Paris just moments ago. She apparently told press, who were awaiting her arrival there, that she believes the Israeli authorities illegally boarded their ship yesterday, illegally detained her as a result, and that she will continue to keep up her fight to bring awareness to the conditions in Gaza. Those humanitarian conditions which are truly still quite disastrous, despite Israel allowing in a trickle of humanitarian aid over the course of the last couple of weeks.

As for the eight other activists, they are still being held by Israeli authorities. They're currently being detained in what's known as the Givon prison in central Israel, according to the Freedom Flotilla Coalition, which oversaw this mission to attempt to break the Israeli naval blockade. That's apparently because eight of those 12 refused to sign documents acknowledging that they had unlawfully entered the state of Israel, saying that they were attacked in international waters instead and refusing to sign those documents to voluntarily depart Israel.

And so, instead what is happening now is deportation proceedings.

[08:59:50]

And until those proceedings conclude, most likely with their eventual deportation from Israel, these activists are continuing to maintain that they didn't do anything unlawful here and will be formally protesting what they are describing as their unlawful detention before an Israeli judicial