Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Israel Targets Iran's Nuclear Sites, Scientists, Military Leaders; RFK Jr. Names New Members After Firing CDC Vaccine Advisory Panel. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired June 13, 2025 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:32:31]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Back to the major breaking news that we are following all throughout the morning. The United States says it was not involved in Israel's unprecedented strikes targeting Iran's nuclear facilities, as well as taking out Iran's top military commanders. But President Trump does tell CNN this morning in a phone call that the U.S. supports Israel and called the attack, quote, "very successful." The president is expected to speak with the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu today, just as everyone is waiting to see what really will be Iran's response to all of this. They're promising a forceful response.

Joining us right now is Democratic Congressman Josh Gottheimer from New Jersey for much more on this.

Congressman, thank you for coming in. First, just your reaction this morning to this massive strike by Israel on Iran overnight.

REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ): Well, we know that Iran is the leading state sponsor of terror, right? Their proxies have attacked Americans, killed Americans, attacked our bases. And, of course, our key Democratic ally, Israel, led the coordination on October 7th, led to more than 1000 killed, of course, including Americans and Americans held hostage.

And we know that Iran, despite claims otherwise, has refused to diminish their nuclear program. The IAEA came out, of course, and said that Iran has failed to meet their nonproliferation obligations when it comes to nuclear weapons. So, I understand it from Israel's point of view, from the threat that they pose, of course, as their neighbor, moving ahead, not just on the terror front, but, of course, the nuclear front. But it's also a huge threat to the United States of America, to our security, and, of course, a democracy and freedom. So, from a self-defense perspective, I understand why Israel acted.

BOLDUAN: Israel launched these strikes three days before the United States was set to sit down again with the Iranians for a new round of nuclear talks, just three days. And that is something that Democratic Senator Tim Kaine told John Berman last hour shocked and disappointed him. Let me play this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): Diplomacy may not work. Discussions may not lead to a productive outcome. But why torch diplomacy before it's been allowed to succeed?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Congressman, do you agree with Tim Kaine? Are you disappointed in the timing of these attacks?

GOTTHEIMER: Tim Kaine is just flat out wrong. I mean, I -- you know, the bottom line is there was a 60-day deadline that the President put forth for Iran to negotiate. They did -- they've done what Iran always does all these times. They rope-a-dope, they come up with new excuses. The Supreme Allied Commander made his comments, which showed no interest in actually finding a negotiated way forward. The United States made it clear that we were looking for ways to move forward.

[09:35:20]

And listen, Iran, as the President said this morning, is welcome to come back to the table today and actually disarm their nuclear program, diminish their capabilities that they continue to drive forward on, that they've been dishonest about, as we just saw from the IAEA yesterday about -- about their capabilities.

So, I mean, from my perspective, Iran has proven time again, not only are they a threat to democracy and freedom, not only between Iran, the IRGC, their military and their proxies attacked the United States, killed Americans, attacked our bases, attacked our ships. But it's time to show Iran that this is not acceptable behavior. And moving forward, the nuclear program is unacceptable.

We need to make sure their capabilities are diminished. And of course, their terror capabilities are eliminated. And I think the actions that were taken yesterday from a point of self-defense, knowing that Iran, at least what's been reported, Iran was planning to move forward with attacks on Israel. So, you can understand from a self-defense perspective why Israel acted.

BOLDUAN: What about -- what this means for the United States is a big question this morning. Senator Jack Reed, who's a top Democrat on Senate Armed Services, said, called the attack alarming and a reckless escalation that risks igniting regional violence. Do you think there is still opportunity for this to de-escalate? Or do you think, as we have been told by other Democrats, that the U.S. is closer today to being drawn into another war in the Middle East?

GOTTHEIMER: Of course there's an opportunity to de-escalate. I mean, this was a show of force. And hopefully Iran will come to the table now and instead of playing games as they've been playing, actually make an agreement to disarm, to -- to take apart their nuclear operation, to live up to their obligations for monitoring on their nuclear program and to stop sponsoring terror, right? They are the leading state sponsor of terror in the world, right,

between Hamas, Hezbollah, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, the Houthis, all forces that have attacked and killed Americans, attacked our service members, our bases and our allies. We know that Qaani was one of the people who were killed reportedly from the IRGC, the Quds Force, was involved in October 7th in coordinating the terrorist proxies. This is about protecting the United States of America, right?

They've made it very clear that the ultimate enemy is the United States of America, our democracy and freedom. So, you know, I think -- I think I'm hoping this actually gets Iran to the table, not just to sit there, but to actually agree to disarm their nuclear events and to diminish the nuclear program.

BOLDUAN: Congressman Josh Gottheimer, thank you for coming in. Appreciate your time.

John?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, our breaking news coverage continues. Again, one major question is, will Iran respond? How will they respond? No reports from Israel at this point of any successful response on the ground. We'll get more. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:42:40]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu set to speak to President Trump later today. As Israel says it's preparing for a prolonged operation against Iran. Crowds of protesters rallying in Tehran today calling for retaliation. While Iran's Supreme Leader vowed that Israel will face severe punishment. All that coming out this morning.

Joining us now, CNN Global Affairs Analyst Brett McGurk. He is a former White House coordinator for the Middle East and North Africa.

Let's start with this. With Israel's assassination of several of Iran's most powerful leaders. The current strikes on its nuclear capabilities. And the previous strikes that we saw on Iran by Israel hitting military targets after October 7th. What major capabilities does Iran have to respond?

BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, Sara, I have to say even since I was here on air two hours ago. We've learned that Ashraf Ghani, the head of the IRGC Quds Force was also likely killed. He's the individual responsible for organizing all the proxies around the Middle East. Has a lot of American blood on his hands. This is a kind of measure of justice here as well. I feel that very strongly.

So, what can Iran do? Look, they have two main capabilities. They have missiles and drones. And they have their proxies. The missiles and drones, we saw these two massive attacks just last year. I was involved in coordinating the defense of Israel. In April, we had over 300 combination of drones, cruise missiles, ballistic missiles fired at Israel. That attack was defeated. In October, we had 200 ballistic missiles in the air at the same time, which at the time was thought to be almost a worst-case scenario. And that attack was largely entirely defeated. So, we know a lot about that. They could try that again. It's going to be hard because Hajizadeh, the commander who basically built their entire missile and drone program is dead. So, it's going to be very difficult for the Iranians to organize a coordinated response like that. They will try, but it will be difficult.

On the proxy side, their crown jewel proxy and one of the main deterrents to any attack inside Iran like we saw today has been Hezbollah in Lebanon. Hezbollah has had 150,000 to 200,000 missiles and rockets poised to attack Israel in the event Iran is attacked. Hezbollah, of course, over the course of last year, has just been knocked entirely on its back. So, that is really not an option.

[09:45:00]

So, I think Iran's options here are very, very limited. And I have to say, the president's response -- the president's comments today to Dana Bash this morning, I honestly think were spot on. Look, making clear, we were not directly involved in this attack. Yeah, we knew about it. And now we're going to stand with Israel. And Iran, you know, don't think about it. Let's get back to the table and get a deal. I think that was important for the American president to say because it helps the overall deterrent equation of what Iran might do.

Bottom line, they will respond. We'll see something. But their hands are really tied. And this operation is still ongoing. Israel has total intelligence and air dominance over Iran right now. And so the Iranians are in a real quandary.

SIDNER: Yeah, I guess the real question is that you talked about, you know, the president saying, hey, talking to Dana Bash, saying, hey, let's get back to the table here. But with all the people who have been assassinated and with Israel saying, look, they are going to continue with operations in Iran, what is the incentive for Iran to continue to deal? I mean, are these talks essentially dead for at least a time now?

MCGURK: Yeah, I do not think we'll see any direct diplomacy with Iran here, at least for the coming period. But, you know, there's been an assumption that for Iran to really, truly dismantle its nuclear program, it has to be faced with the consequence of the existential threat to the regime. And Iran has never been in a weaker position, really, I think, since the revolution in 1979. People talk about the 80s and the war in Iraq. It was a pretty weak position. It's never been a weaker position than right now.

This will ultimately open space for diplomacy. It's not going to happen right away. This is some time to play out. But ultimately, I think there's a possibility here for a good deal that has a dismantles Iran's nuclear program. What we all want to see, they can have a civilian program, but they cannot have just what Josh Gottheimer just mentioned, you know, this week was very important.

The IAEA, for the first time in 20 years, the Board of Governors in Vienna, found Iran in total noncompliance with its nuclear obligations. Even with the Trump administration trying to get a nuclear deal, what was Iran doing? Significantly escalating its program. And they announced this week a new enrichment facility buried deep in a mountain and new advanced centrifuges that they were going to put in the Fordow facility.

Again, no conceivable civilian use. So, Iran was really playing with fire here. This Israeli operation has been incredibly effective. Far more so than I might have anticipated. Far more extensive in scope. It's still ongoing. And so, bottom line, to repeat myself, risk repeating myself, your question, yes, Iran will seek to respond. They have missiles. They have proxies. They have some options. But they're in a real quandary. I've just never seen anything like it.

SIDNER: That is quite a statement coming from you, Brett McGurk. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Kate?

BOLDUAN: Just days after removing all 17 members and firing all of the members of the CDC's independent vaccine advisory panel, RFK Jr. has announced eight new members to the panel. And he is now out defending those choices, several with a history of, at the very minimum, criticizing vaccine recommendations, some even testifying against vaccine makers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:50:51]

BOLDUAN: This morning, HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is out defending his actions once again. After firing everyone on the CDC's independent vaccine advisory panel, he has now announced eight new members to the panel. Among them, two people who like RFK Jr., well- known vaccine skeptics. Some with ties to lawsuits against vaccine makers, including at least one who's testified as an expert witness in a case against vaccine drug -- against a vaccine by drug maker Merck.

This is one of the things that a leading epidemiologist now writes in a new op-ed for the "New York Times" keeps him up at night. That is Dr. Michael Mina, who also writes in this piece that we just hit code red. The consequences will not be theoretical. They will be viral, a resurgence of dangerous infectious disease.

And joining us now is Dr. Michael Mina himself, vaccine expert, epidemiologist, former Harvard Professor. It's good to see you again, Doctor.

RFK Jr. literally just said on "Fox News" yesterday that none of the vaccines on the schedule for children are safety tested. You can -- you know, there's a lot of fact-checking that is always required whenever he speaks about a vaccine, including that all vaccines that are given to kids go through extensive clinical trials and testing for safety and efficacy. But the CDC panel is the panel that goes about looking at all that data, all of that safety data.

Now, what's -- the changes he's brought about to this vaccine advisory panel is one of the things that is keeping you up at night. What -- tell me more about why that is.

DR. MICHAEL MINA, CHIEF SCIENCE OFFICER, EMED: Yeah, the ACIP, this panel is one of the cornerstones of our vaccine program in the United States. It's historically been filled with a diverse group of people who have expertise in the infections that these vaccines prevent, have expertise in how to evaluate trials, and really have thought deeply about how to deploy vaccines. Has every decision been perfect? No, but they've generally done a very, very good job at eliminating many childhood viruses and infections that have plagued humans for years before these vaccines were developed.

So, the decimation of this group on the premise that they haven't done a good job, that they have been biased, that they have recommended vaccines that are not safety tested is completely false. All of these vaccines have been safety tested. They have -- there's a robust, imperfect, but very robust post-licensure monitoring that we do just to get approval in the first place. And licensure is actually before CDC recommendations come in at the level of the FDA and their advisory group. So, there is an extensive network and his -- his comments on this just couldn't really be further from the truth, unfortunately.

BOLDUAN: You also hit on in this piece something that I've heard from a lot of people and I've also struggled with as well in talking about this is there's so much change being brought about by RFK Jr. at Health and Human Services that it is hard to categorize and it is challenging to figure out what is, as you put it, keeping you up at night, what is serious, what is, as you put it, off track, or what is actually worth considering. Talk to me about how you broke down these categories because it is helpful for everyone to understand.

[09:55:18]

MINA: Yeah, it's a -- I think it's very important. Unfortunately, there's just been such a dizzying array of changes that what we're seeing is everything is just getting lumped together as bad. You know, and that kind of is a disservice to his own agenda, RFK Jr.'s own agenda. We've actually seen things like destroying ACIP membership in one fell swoop with no real transparency. That is destructive. That's not a positive thing for public health. There are lots of other ways to do about it.

On the other hand, within HHS is the FDA, and the FDA leadership came out with new guidance. Not necessarily, it wasn't announced in the most traditional way, but it wasn't all bad. You know, this question, should we be reevaluating, or at least evaluating more robustly the use of COVID-19 vaccines in young and healthy people in this new era of widespread immunity, I think it's very reasonable to put that out.

But when we're making all of these decisions, and all of these changes kind of haphazardly without any clear line of thinking, and in fact with massive fissures within the leadership of the agencies within HHS, all under RFK Jr., it really is starting to look a little bit like a clown show of arguing, you know, very publicly between CDC, HHS leadership, FDA, and it's -- it's quite unfortunate. There's a lot of better ways to go about making change than what we're seeing.

BOLDUAN: And the impact, I'll read the last line -- I'll read that line from your piece one more time. "The consequences will not be theoretical. They will be viral. A resurgence of dangerous infectious diseases." Getting this right is not just a good idea. It is essential. Dr. Mina, it's good to see you. Thank you very much for your time.

BERMAN: Again, it has been an extraordinarily busy morning. All the breaking news coming out of Israel and Iran. Stay with CNN for breaking coverage of this situation in the SITUATION ROOM. Coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)