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Suspect In Minnesota Lawmaker Shootings Captured; Two U.S. Officials: Trump Rejected Israeli Plan To Kill Iran's Supreme Leader; Rep. Randy Fine (R-FL) On Lawmakers Call For Heightened Security After Minnesota Shootings. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired June 16, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT, CORPORATE SECURITY CONSULTANT: Oh, we know that he had plans. Now, those plans were definitely interrupted really by three things. One, proven law enforcement tactics, the use of technology, and really, key assistance from the public.

But we know from the very beginning that this individual's actions were premeditated, they were calculated, and they were really focused on executing these political leaders. So from pillar to post this individual had a plan but good policing coordination at the end of the day really brought this suspect in custody without any further incidents.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good policing. Be specific. What do you mean?

WACKROW: So good policing really when it comes back to you proven law enforcement tactics. The coordination between federal, state, and local entities working under a unified command and really applying apprehension tactics. So setting up various coordination zones to really focus in on. Wherever there was a sighting they would surge law enforcement officers to that location.

But think over the last 43 hours there were over 400 tips that were sent into the unified command center, so that really put a significant operational cadence on law enforcement. But they proved to be very successful at the end of the day.

And then the utilization of technology on top of that. Once they found a certain area that they could basically cordon off for the suspect, they utilized thermal imagers and infrared cameras to really try to locate specifically where this individual was in the -- through the darkness of night.

BERMAN: Look, obviously, now in custody and presumably has a right to remain silent and could very well lawyer up.

WACKROW: Um-hum.

BERMAN: But what would investigators want to learn from him? WACKROW: Well, first of all, they want to understand really again the motive here. They want to first understand was he influenced by a particular ideology or a group? Is he working independently or was he really motivated by a group of others? Also want to know upon his escape was he supported by individuals -- his wife, specifically, friends and family. Were they supporting his escape? So they want to try to delve into that as quickly as possible.

They also want to understand the behavioral motivations here to ensure that this type of attack.

BERMAN: Yeah.

WACKROW: -- doesn't happen again.

Why were these specific lawmakers targeted? Was there a rank order that he was going through? Again, all of this is going to help prevent future attacks from happening.

BERMAN: Jonathan, you spent years in the Secret Service. If you were advising elected officials --

WACKROW: Um-hum.

BERMAN: -- right now how to stay safe what would you tell them?

WACKROW: Well, one thing what I would do is we need to actually stop normalizing the violence, right? Across the -- across the nation we have seen online rhetoric become normalized in violence and it's really at -- we're standing at the center of a new type of threat.

What I look at in this instance and I look also with the assassination of the UnitedHealthcare CEO is this concept of assassination culture. And it's this really dangerous evolution, John, where targeted violence -- targeted killing is increasingly justified, right? And it's justified because it -- they're trying to link it to a particular ideology.

Some of the manifesto documents or notebook documents -- documentation that we see from this suspect will actually help investigators really understand this motivation around justified killing.

That has got to stop. We need to stop normalizing this type of violence.

We heard the governor say that we need to promote a change in dialogue and I completely agree. We have to encourage open, non-violent discourse right now to reduce this current polarization.

BERMAN: Absolutely.

Jonathan Wackrow, great to see you this morning. Thank you very much -- Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. New this morning two sources tell CNN that President Trump rejected an Israeli plan to kill Iran's supreme leader. As Israel and Iran traded strikes over the weekend, a source telling CNN Israel had an opportunity to kill Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, but the White House signaled Trump was opposed to that. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is denying reports of any such plan.

President Trump has said repeatedly he wants the Israel-Iran conflict to end and has made clear he wants to keep the U.S. out of it, although he's acknowledging it's possible that could change.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's time for a deal and we'll see what happens. But sometimes they have to fight it out. But we're going to see what happens. I think there's a good chance there will be a deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: CNN White House reporter Alayna Treene joining us now. What is the latest on this with this back-and-forth?

[07:35:00]

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah. Look, I mean, over the weekend we've really seen now this conflict between Israel and Iran escalate to new heights and it raised questions -- and we, of course, are working all of our sources at the White House and in the broader Trump administration about what would the U.S. involvement be for what is happening moving forward, particularly, of course, with Israel as the United States continues to argue that -- or at least we hear this from the president all the time that the U.S. is Israel's strongest ally that they've ever had.

Now we had learned -- and you iterated this, Sara -- is that over the weekend there was the possibility that Israel had an opportunity -- they called it a "window of opportunity" to try and strike Israel -- or, excuse, Iran's supreme leader. And we were told that the United States communicated to Israel that President Donald Trump opposed that plan. That he did not want that. And part of that, from what we're hearing in our conversations, is because he does not want to escalate this further.

When I've talked with my sources -- I know my other colleagues at the White House have had similar conversations -- they believe that a regime change -- doing something at that level could really broaden this conflict into a full-out war potentially. And that is something that the president wants to avoid.

Of course, though, we have continued to see the Trump administration offer defensive support to Israel. And when I have these conversations with people at the White House they say for now that's where they want to keep it because -- I continue to hear this in the talks that I'm having is that they still believe, and President Trump specifically, still believes that there is a chance to try and keep Iran at the negotiating table for a potential nuclear deal. We know this. We've been covering this that over the past couple of days specifically the president has not been quiet about his frustrations with Iran for what he argues is slow-walking the talks on this. And we saw the president last week argue that that's part of the reason we saw Israel move forward with these strikes.

But for now we're continuing to hear that the president really wants the U.S. to stay out of this. And again, a lot of this is because it is at odds with the president's overarching goal and what we've heard him say even before he took office, which is that he wants to be a global peacemaker. And so launching the United States into this conflict in a direct way is not really where this Trump administration is.

Of course, we continue to hear, including in our conversations with Israeli officials, that could change. You heard the president say that as well. So all of this kind of in a very precarious spot right now, Sara.

SIDNER: A good way to put it, Alayna Treene. Thank you so much. Appreciate your reporting this morning -- John.

BERMAN: All right, with us now retired Army Major Mike Lyons, and CNN political and national security analyst and White House national security correspondent for The New York Times, David Sanger.

David, up here we can just see some of the locations that Israel has hit inside Iran. Obviously, it includes missile bases -- sorry, nuclear facilities around Natanz there. Also the capital inside Tehran.

What's your reporting, David, on how far Israel plans on taking this? And also, what's your reporting on the current U.S. position about how much it's willing to help or how far the U.S. is willing to see this go?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, WHITE HOUSE AND NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well clearly, John, we've seen a lot of escalation.

And you marked the Natanz site. That is the biggest uranium enrichment site in Iran. But they hit it the first night and they have not gone back. And while they wiped out a lot of the facilities that were above ground, including a pilot enrichment plant, they have not gotten down deep into the centrifuge holes. That's where the uranium is enriched to most recently near bomb grade levels. And so you're not going to wipe out the nuclear capability until the centrifuge hole comes out.

They also have not touched the store of uranium that has already been enriched, which is down in Isfahan on your map there. And that's in part we think deliberate because they don't want to create a radiological incident all around that area.

And then, of course, you've marked Fordow, which is the deepest of the uranium enrichment facilities there. That one is about -- well, inspectors say nearly a half mile under a mountain. And this is the biggest single problem because the Israelis have said that they want to wipe out the entire nuclear program and that is the core of it. And it's probably out of reach of the Israeli weapons. They could only do it with U.S. help.

BERMAN: Mike -- Major Lyons here. We can see what Iran has been able to strike over the last 24 hours. We saw a video shortly ago of the situation in Tel Aviv. Nic Robertson was standing there in central Tel Aviv. And then in Haifa, the Israeli port city, there was an oil refinery. There were explosions hear that.

[07:40:05]

What is your sense of how much capability Iran has left? Israel is saying it has hit a third --

MAJ. MIKE LYONS, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Um-hum.

BERMAN: -- of Iran's missile launchers, but they're still obviously able to cause some destruction.

LYONS: Yeah. I think Israel is conducting a very specific targeted campaign first, to protect their forces right now. I think that's why you're not maybe seeing some of the more attacks on some of those nuclear sites that David Sanger was saying because right now they have to protect their own forces. They have to go after Iran's capability to wage it. And I think it's depleting every day. And it's only been a couple of days right now, but I think as the weeks go on they are going to have virtually no way to come back.

We have so much confidence in the Israeli air defense platforms, but we see things do get through -- it's just not perfect. I'm sure U.S. assets are helping there and the like.

But these are strategic weapon systems that Israel -- that Iran deploys that really don't know where they're hitting. I mean, you could see their civilian targets here. They don't have the same capability Israel has to hit military targets.

BERMAN: And again, David, as we look at possible targets here you mentioned the various nuclear facilities Fordow and Natanz, and whatnot, what's the endgame for Israel?

SANGER: Well, this is a really interesting question, and it gets back to this question of whether or not they would go after the supreme leader.

If you listen to the Israeli officials, including the Israeli foreign minister yesterday here on CNN, he said that regime change was not one of the objectives of the operation as put together but the Israeli cabinet. So that means that the one big objective is to eradicate the nuclear program.

And, of course, the big fear with these John is that what happens is the Iranians emerge from this thinking well, this entire set of incidents only proved the fact that they really needed a nuclear weapon and they take the program deep underground. So the test is over the next two days or weeks, how much do the

Israelis destroy? But it's also over the next few years. Do you -- can you actually stop Iran from rekindling that nuclear program but out of sight?

BERMAN: And Major, again, this is the location of the various strikes -- just some of them --

LYONS: Yeah.

BERMAN: -- that Israel has conducted inside Iran.

Were the U.S. to get directly involved here, what difference would it make?

LYONS: Well, right away, Fordow -- that would be a B2 bomber that would bring that massive ordnance prohibitor that would destroy that facility that could go -- that's the deepest of the bunker-busters that we have that would be there. That would require U.S. support in order to do that.

That's where Iran holds its -- you know, the most -- the deepest of centrifuges that are there in Fordow and we only have that capability to do that. I mean, this bomb was designed to do just that.

That other bunker-buster bomb that we have -- the GP28, for example -- can double tap some places like Natanz and places where they could get in but that really needs to be penetrated there.

Now so -- but Israel goes after these places -- these deep locations inside of Iran to take away their capability of attacking Israel. This is where that their drone facilities are, and their drones get resupplied.

So I think that's right now their focus. They're doing attacks on the nuclear sites as well, but they are wanting to make sure that they're protecting their own people. They're clearly that pathway to have more future attacks in the future.

BERMAN: They say basically they can fly at will over Iran right now.

LYONS: Yeah.

BERMAN: Major Mike Lyons, David Sangar, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right, thank you so much, John.

House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries says he will meet with congressional leaders from both parties this week to discuss heightened security for lawmakers after the politically motivated shootings in Minnesota, calling the violence a "wakeup call."

Joining me now Republican Congressman from Florida, Randy Fine. Thank you so much for being here, sir, this morning. Let's start with this. You're hearing from Jeffries and you're hearing from other congressional Democrats who are asking for more police protection after that assassination and attempted assassination of lawmakers in Minnesota.

Would you vote to grant more security for all members of Congress?

REP. RANDY FINE (R-FL): I don't agree with Hakeem Jeffries on much, Sara, but on this I do.

As a member of the Florida legislature I actually had two people arrested, prosecuted, and locked up for making death threats against me and my family, so I understand the threat that this faces. And we do need to provide more security for legislators. It's absolutely needed.

SIDNER: I do want to talk to you about some of the rhetoric because there's a lot of talk about rhetoric and how this jins people up.

FINE: Yeah.

SIDNER: A few years ago you were called out for calling a school board member a whore in a text. You've called one of your congressional colleagues a terrorist.

Are you part of the problem here?

FINE: Well look, I think what people write in private text messages to each other is one thing. If I had said that in a public message I'd understand. But I do think there are issues.

Look, when we have protests on Saturday calling something "No Kings" when Donald Trump isn't a king -- he's been elected overwhelmingly by the American people -- and it's compared to the Revolution -- I mean, that is a call for violence. When people are waving signs that say "8647."

[07:45:00]

I think we've heard this discussion about taking down the temperature after President Trump was assassinated twice, and I don't think people are getting the message. So this real. It's a concern and we all should do our part.

SIDNER: Are you not getting the message too, to be fair? Is it fair to say that the way that you speak to your colleagues -- what you say about them -- and the fiery rhetoric that you also use is also an issue that you are thinking about maybe changing?

FINE: I think fiery -- it's a fair point but I think fiery rhetoric is different than a call for violence. Calling evil for what it is, calling danger for what it is, is acceptable. It's when you cross that line and you say, "and that person should be killed." That's never a line that I have crossed nor do I think it should be done.

But we saw that -- we saw that kind of rhetoric just on Saturday at these protests and I think that is a problem. We've seen it repeatedly with President Trump for years and I do think it's a problem.

And the problem is these people are crazy. This guy in Minnesota, he's going to turn out to be crazy. And when crazy people hear these things these problems -- these problems do well up.

SIDNER: That's something that the courts will have to determine, obviously, in looking at his history. His friends and family certainly do not think that.

Let's talk about this. President Trump is refusing -- we're going to move on to Israel -- refusing Israel's request -- according to our reporting and some of the sources to our reporters, he's refusing a request to assassinate the supreme leader of Iran. Israel said that they had him, at some point, in their sights although they are refuting that.

In your opinion was that the right thing to do?

FINE: President Trump has a lot more information on the situation than I do as a member of Congress and I trust his judgment implicitly.

What I think we need to be doing is taking out Iran's nuclear capabilities. And I hope that in the process of that the Iranian people, who are a great people, will rise up and make Persia great again. I think that's the right outcome is that people in Iran settle their own government issues on their own.

SIDNER: Should President Trump enter the war with Iran militarily you think? Many in Israel, including President Netanyahu, would like to see more.

FINE: I think if the U.S. has unique capabilities to destroy Iran's nuclear program, I think that we should consider doing that. That does not involve boots on the ground. Israel doesn't have boots on the ground other than special forces.

But if some of our aircraft and some of our weapons can be used to end this war quicker and to make sure Iran cannot threaten the United States with a nuclear weapon, I think it's something President Trump should consider. But I know that he will make the right decision for America and put America first.

SIDNER: I know you are well aware of Iran's influence on groups -- terrorist organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah. In an interview though last month you said this when asked about how to treat Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FINE: In World War II, we did not negotiate a surrender with the Nazis. We did not negotiate a surrender with the Japanese. We nuked the Japanese twice in order to get unconditional surrender. That needs to be the same here. There is something deeply, deeply wrong with this culture and it needs to be defeated.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SIDNER: Did you really mean to say that the U.S. should use nuclear weapons against people because there's something wrong with their culture?

FINE: Of course not. What I was saying is that we didn't negotiate with evil in World War II. We defeated the Germans -- we defeated the Japanese using any means that were necessary. And the same needs to be done in Gaza.

Nuking Gaza would be a terrible idea. The fallout would drift into Israel. It would kill the hostages.

The point that I was making was we didn't sit down and say --

SIDNER: But you're worried about it killing, for example, women and children in Gaza who -- you know, the innocents?

FINE: I think war is a messy thing and I think that when you defeat evil you have to do it. It's necessary to do it.

Israel cannot live next to a country that a huge percentage of the people wish to destroy it all of the time. They need to do whatever is necessary, and I don't know what those things are, in order to get unconditional surrender in Gaza. And I think that's what they're doing right now.

SIDNER: Yeah, you -- I mean, you brought up nuking them though, so those were your words.

FINE: No, I didn't bring up -- I did not bring up nuking them.

SIDNER: You literally said the same thing should be done.

FINE: No. I talked about -- that's not what I said. No. The same thing in terms of getting --

SIDNER: You said the same thing should be done --

FINE: I -- that is taking me out of context. I said in the same way we did what was necessary to get Japan to unconditionally surrender, they need to do the same thing over there no matter what that is. I don't know what those tools are.

But it took us nuking Japan not once but twice in order to get them to unconditionally surrender and it's estimated that saved a million American lives in the process.

My point is we didn't sit down and go oh, no, civilians might die. Let's not get Japan to surrender.

I believe the Palestinianism in Gaza is on a level of evil that we saw in Japan and we saw in Germany back in World War II, and I believe Israel needs to do what's necessary to defeat it -- and I won't apologize for that.

[07:50:00] SIDNER: Congressman, a lot of people do not agree with that word "evil" for all Palestinians, but I should point that out.

Congressman Randy Fine, thank you so much -- John.

BERMAN: All right. This morning a man is dead after he was shot while attending a huge weekend protest.

And five people killed and others missing after devastating flash floods. We'll tell you what the new storm threat is for this morning.

(COMMERCIAL)

BERMAN: In Utah this morning one man is in custody on a murder charge after the shooting death of a bystander at a Salt Lake City "No Kings" rally. A man believed to be part of volunteer peacekeeping team was firing at man wielding a rifle at protesters. He hit -- he hit that suspect -- Arturo Gamboa -- at a bystander, 39-year-old Arthur Folasa Ah Loo, who died at a hospital. Gamboa is in custody accused of creating a dangerous situation that led to Ah Loo's death.

[07:55:15]

A frightening moment for a Florida teenager. A 14-year-old boy was riding his electric bike when deputies say a woman drove her SUV on to a pedestrian path and started chasing him. The 65-year-old woman said she was chasing him down because he was riding his e-bike too fast and she wanted to speak to his parents. A separate driver called 911 and cut the woman off so the biker could get away. Police arrested the woman and charged her with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.

SIDNER: Well, (INAUDIBLE).

BERMAN: In Louisville, a driver escaped moments before his truck burst into flames and plunged off an interstate overpass. The rig was hanging from the edge before -- you can see it just -- it just fell off -- woo. The driver suffered only minor injuries. It is still unclear what caused the crash -- Sara.

SIDNER: Yikes. That is -- sorry for stepping in there but it was so interesting what you were saying.

BERMAN: You're always welcome. You're always welcome.

SIDNER: I was drawn to you.

BERMAN: Always welcome.

SIDNER: Thank you so much, John.

New this morning sources telling CNN the Environmental Protection Agency has stunned some staffers after telling some employees in the Midwest to stop enforcing violations against fossil fuel companies. The directive coming as the agency tries to ease scrutiny of the oil and gas industry. CNN's Rene Marsh has more from Washington. Rene, this is stunning for those that are in charge of protecting the environment. What are you learning about this new directive?

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sara, good morning.

For weeks I've been talking to EPA sources across the country and learned that these -- the people who are essentially supposed to police industry for environmental violations in one of EPA's most industrialized regions in the Midwest plagued by a legacy of pollution. Those enforcement officials have been directed to leave oil and gas companies alone. That's according to four sources.

Now, they say this directive was given verbally and it means that they haven't been able to issue violations or even request information from fossil fuel companies they suspect are in violation.

In other parts of the country, like EPA's Region 6, which oversees states like Texas and Louisiana where oil and gas production is plentiful, sources there say many of their cases are also at a standstill. And while they can issue notices of violation, one source says that they're not getting any directive to move forward with the cases. This source also added that the industry has a direct line into Trump-appointed officials at EPA's regional office in that area.

In one instance, a request for information from a fossil fuel company resulted in what this source described as a slap on the wrist in the enforcement division when the Trump-appointed officials questioned the motives of EPA enforcement. And the source says that they interpreted that reaction as a warning for probing the industry.

Now, Sara, we should be clear we have seen Republican administrations ease up on regulations, but longtime EPA employees say this is different and it's unprecedented in nature. They are carving out one industry and essentially telling staff not to enforce environmental laws.

I want to quickly just go to the data and what early -- an early snapshot of the data shows is that overall the number of EPA enforcement cases initiated or closed across industries has dropped by 32 percent. Compare that to the first three months of the Biden administration. According to this publicly analyzed data it is quite significant, this drop. And this was analyzed by the Environmental Integrity Project.

The EPA -- we reached out to them about this reporting and they tell CNN that their enforcement activity continues -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right, Rene Marsh. Thank you so much for your reporting this morning -- John.

BERMAN: This morning at least five people are dead and four others missing after flash floods hit West Virginia. Four inches of rain fell in just 30 minutes. It triggered rescues, evacuations, and widespread destruction. A state of emergency still in effect with officials urging people to stay off the roads. Let's get right to CNN's Allison Chinchar in the weather center with

the very latest. What are you seeing?

ALLISON CHINCHAR, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yeah. Again, when you look at the maps to show how much rain we actually had over the last 48 hours, in many cases it's two, three, even four inches. But what many people don't realize is a lot of that rain came down in just 30 or even 60 minutes, which led to scenes like this that you can see behind me.

Now, this took place in northern West Virginia for those who are unfamiliar with where this town may be located. The only thing to note too is that more rain is expected and that's the last thing a lot of these areas need. When you see -- again, look at the map. You can see some scattered yellow areas on here indicating two to four inches. But it's the fact that it all came down in such an extremely short period of time that led to a lot of that incredibly big flash flooding.

You still have flood watches in effect not only for Virginia but scattered across some other mid-Atlantic states as well, even over into portions of Kentucky and southern Illinois.