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High Stakes Nuclear Talks in Geneva as U.S. Weighs Strikes on Iran; Officials: Five People Taken to Hospital After Iranian Missile Hits Haifa. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired June 20, 2025 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:30:17]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. This hour, a chance at diplomacy, a critical meeting getting underway in Geneva between Iranian and European officials. This comes as President Trump says he's going to give up to two weeks to decide whether the U.S. will get involved in military strikes against Iran.

With us now, Max Boot, Senior Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations.

Max, thanks so much for being with us. This chance at diplomacy here, what is it you think that Iran could promise that maybe should keep the U.S. from getting involved or should be enough to stop this conflict?

MAX BOOT, SENIOR FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Well, at this point, I think what Iran needs to promise is to give up all of their nuclear enrichment, to give up their entire nuclear program. The question is, are they going to be willing to do that? And I would probably say the likelihood is that they will not be willing to do that even now, even when they're under assault from Israel. But I think that has to be the ask, and that's a greater ask than what they were willing to give up in 2015 during the original Iran nuclear deal.

BERMAN: It's interesting because giving up all enrichment has, they've said no, they said they won't give up all enrichment, but it's just for civilian use is what they said. But it does seem increasingly that even some Democrats, Chris Coons, who I had on before, look, he's not calling for military action, but he is saying Iran should agree to give up all this nuclear enrichment here. This now seems to be something that more and more people are coalescing around.

BOOT: I agree. More and more people outside of Iran. Whether the Iranian leadership is willing to give this up, I still have my doubts. And if they're not, then that's going to leave us with some very unpleasant choices because, you know, yesterday, basically, President Trump punted for a couple of weeks, quote unquote, "his decision about whether to use force." But the reality is Israel cannot bomb the Fordo nuclear complex, which is the crown jewel of the Iranian nuclear program. They cannot bomb it into destruction. The only way to do that is with a U.S. attack. And even there, there's not a guarantee that it'll work.

BERMAN: I want to come back to that notion in just one second, because I think that's an important question to ask. But first, on the idea of negotiations, is there anything that Iran could promise that would make Israel accept that they're not enriching uranium? In other words, is there a deal you think that could be reached that would be acceptable to Israel? Forget the United States for a second.

BOOT: Well, I think the deal that would be acceptable to Israel would be if Iran, in fact, promises to give up all of their enrichment capacity and also has very intrusive international inspections. That's what was being demanded before. But that's what Iran has never been willing to give up at the negotiating table. And we just have to see if the current Israeli attack has changed the calculus for Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei.

BERMAN: OK, and then back to that question, which I think is a really key one here. It is said that the United States has the only capability to bomb the Fordo Nuclear Enrichment Center, the only bomb they can get deep inside the ground to do it. But how much of a guarantee is it that even if the U.S. does use that weapon, that it would end the Iranian nuclear program?

BOOT: It's not a guarantee at all. And in fact, there's a big question mark as to whether even the U.S., with its 3,000-pound bunker buster bombs, whether even we can destroy the Fordo complex, which is buried more than 100 feet underground. You know, I was talking to a former defense official yesterday. He was telling me that it's like the shot against the Death Star on Star Wars. You got to put it in exactly the right place, and you're going to have to have multiple munitions hitting the exact same impact point.

So, there's an uncertainty as to whether the attack will even work. But even if it does work, nobody should fool themselves into thinking that this will eradicate the Iranian nuclear threat for all time. It will set it back for maybe a year or two, maybe longer. But the Iranians can always reconstitute that program because they have the nuclear know-how to do so.

BERMAN: Well, is it clear to you if the U.S. does do this, does bomb the plant, what happens the day after? Is it clear to you what the United States plan would be going forward?

BOOT: It's not clear to me, and it's probably not clear to President Trump, which I suspect is part of the reason why he's hesitating, because we have to be ready for the contingency that if we attack Fordo, Iran is going to lash out. And there are a lot of U.S. bases within very easy missile firing range of Iran, and there is also the threat of Iran conceivably mining or trying to disrupt traffic in the Strait of Hormuz, which is where 20% of the world's oil passes through that. So, these are contingencies we have to prepare for. These are very serious threats, even in Iran's weakened condition.

BERMAN: You've had Israeli leaders over the last 24 hours making their most explicit calls for regime change. The Defense Minister saying that Iran's supreme leader cannot continue to exist. What does injecting the idea of regime change in this discussion, how does that affect negotiations and affect U.S. decisions?

[09:35:05]

BOOT: Well, conceivably, it puts more pressure on the Iranian regime to compromise on their nuclear program, but I don't think it's a realistic possibility. I'm not aware of a single instance in the annals of military history of a regime being overthrown by aerial attack alone. And in fact, the more common pattern is that when countries are attacked from the air, as we've seen in the case of Ukraine recently, the people coalesce around their government because they do not like having their cities bombed and destroyed.

So, you know, I think this regime change idea, which is out there from Prime Minister Netanyahu, is a dog that won't hunt. I think it's a dangerous misconception.

BERMAN: And the flip side of that, and you've been at this for years as an analyst and an observer, the idea of a conflict with Iran has always raised the possibility of a wider regional conflict. But the ingredients have changed to that at this point. Hezbollah does not exist in the same way they did before Hamas, not Syria, really not at all either.

So, when you talk about a conflict that could expand, how much can it expand beyond Iran at this point?

BOOT: Well, it could still expand beyond Iran because, again, Iran has their navy still intact. They can still disrupt commerce in the Strait of Hormuz. They could still conceivably target not only U.S. bases, but also Saudi oil facilities or others. Of course, if they do that, then we will escalate and the conflict will grow.

So, you know, I think that there is still a serious risk of escalation, even though the risk is much lower today than it was a year ago because Israel has done so much to degrade Iranian air defenses and Iranian military capabilities in general.

BERMAN: It's also a different type of escalation. Max, thank you very much. Stand by, because I think we do have breaking news.

We're getting word of Iranian strikes inside Israel in the port city of Haifa, missile strikes there that have made impact. I do believe that our Nic Robertson, who has been in Haifa, has reached the scene. Nic, what are you seeing?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, signs of destruction here. It's not clear yet how much sort of damage to buildings there is. We do know from the local hospital that five casualties have been taken there, two of them in serious condition. The location we're at, without being specific, because Israel doesn't want to give away operational information, is a central location in this city.

And what I can see behind me here are all sorts of emergency crews. I've seen the paramedics in here. I've seen the ambulances racing away from the scene as we've walked in here. I've seen the police controlling the streets around here. The military are on the scene here as well, as well as the fire service.

And it's their hoses that I've been able to see spraying water underneath the bridge behind me in there. It's not clear what they're dousing, what flames may have erupted. But just half an hour ago, barely, barely that, the sirens had gone off here in this town.

We were out on the street. We just followed people to the nearest shelter. It was beneath a shopping mall. And while we were in there, it's very hard to tell what's happening. But there were some dull thuds. Then we got the all clear. And as soon as we came out, like everyone else, you start to understand what has happened around you. And at least one missile, one Iranian missile, we're told, has impacted here. The details at the moment are fragmentary.

We can expect the casualty numbers to potentially change. We can expect the details about what we know about the impact here to change. But at first glance, just coming down here, there are a lot of emergency services on site.

And John, I got to tell you, just earlier on this morning, I was in the hub of where this city deals with this type of emergency, the hub where all the key players, the police, the fire service, all of them sit around a table with the mayor in what they call a war room. Information is feeding into them. They filter that information.

So, the only information they get at that war room desk is key, cleared, critical information for them to make decisions about what to do. So, I know right now, that room is working at full speed with all their officials in there feeding in information about this, deploying teams to the ground. There'll be rescue teams involved here as well.

We may not have seen them yet, but they will be the ones dispatched to go in and check the buildings, check for people that are trapped, check for other people that are injured. It's a very, very coordinated effort. And what we're seeing here on the ground right now is precisely that effort playing out and that is the resilience that city officials talk to us about in this city.

BERMAN: Nic, just earlier, you and I were speaking and it had been a quieter few hours, at least in Haifa. That obviously ended quickly with the impact of this strike. But Haifa has been hit very hard over the last week during this -- during this back and forth here. The people in that city, what has it been like for them?

[09:40:18]

ROBERTSON: You know, one of the other places I was in this morning, and I might have mentioned that to you, John, was a church that they'd opened the car park underneath the church for anyone of any religion to come in there, get shelter at times when the siren goes off. And, you know, there were mattresses in there. There were people clearly had sort of set up their home away from home down there. And the priest told me at night time, a lot of families come and live in there.

And they do that because they are worried about these nighttime strikes. So, again, this strike coming during the day is somewhat out of the normal. When we were on the street before, before the sirens or as the sirens went off, I literally saw a father, a mother with two young children, tugging them by the hand, running up the street, following other people to try to get to this -- this place of shelter, this car park that we -- underground car park that we all ended up in.

And it eats into people's, you know, psyche, if you will. It stresses them. One lady I was talking to in that bomb shelter just now told me it was the first time she had gone into the shelter. So, Haifa has been targeted from the early days of this conflict. Three people were killed not far from here in the very, very beginning of the conflict. So, this city is very aware that it's in the crosshairs of Iranian missiles.

Last night was a bit of a respite. But I've got to tell you, following on from our conversation earlier, John, about how it was quiet, it just shows me how everything here turns on a dime. Things change very quickly. The response is fast. But all of that eats into people's, it amplifies their stress levels. And as you can imagine, that's not good for anyone, John.

BERMAN: A lot of anxiety there, to be sure. Nic Robertson, at the scene of a missile strike in Haifa just a short time ago. We'll come back to you in just a minute. Much more on our breaking news just ahead.

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[09:46:38]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: If you're looking to buy a home, there's a new trend making it harder. It's not just that housing costs are way up from pre-pandemic levels, but some homeowners of a certain generation are deciding they are not going to sell, ever. CNN's Matt Egan is here to explain why the baby boomer generation is really digging in and saying, hey, what we have, we're keeping. We're not going anywhere. What's going on?

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yeah, that's right, Sara. Look, it's just such an expensive time to buy and to borrow. And understandably, a lot of baby boomers, they want no part of that, right?

So, this new survey from Redfin found that one in three baby boomer homeowners say they're never going to sell. Never. Another 30% say they will sell, but not for at least 10 years.

So, when you think about it, that takes a significant chunk of potential housing supply off the market, freezes it in place. And this does match up with anecdotally what I'm hearing from neighbors and from family members who are retired. Some of them maybe have kids who are in college or out of college. And yet they're in no rush to sell. As far as why this is happening, 55% in this survey say it's because they like their home or they've got no reason to move. So, that's understandable.

SIDNER: Yeah. EGAN: Another 30% say that they're not selling because their home is

either completely or almost paid off. And again, that makes sense, right? Because --

SIDNER: Sounds so good.

EGAN: If you paid off your home, why would you ever want to get a mortgage in this market where you're talking about almost 7% mortgage rates on average? But look, this is obviously disappointing news for younger people who want to buy, but they feel like they can't, not at these prices, not at these mortgage rates. And it's also got a trickle-down effect because if you do own a home, maybe it's a starter home, but you want to upgrade again, there's less supply on the market. I think this does speak to a broader mismatch between supply and demand.

And it's not just existing homes that are not going up for sale. It's new ones that are not being built. New numbers out this week show that home building in the U.S. plunged by 10% between April and May to the lowest level since May of 2020. Of course, that was during COVID. This is a trend that's being driven longer term, possibly by too much red tape, but also more recently by interest rates, tariffs, immigration crackdown, uncertainty. There is a silver lining here, though, at least for homebuyers. And that's that Redfin estimates that right now home sellers outnumber buyers significantly by 500,000 in this market.

And that does suggest that possibly we could see home prices either level out or maybe even dip a little bit, which, of course, would be good news for everyone out there trying to buy.

SIDNER: Yeah, it's really interesting looking at all the numbers. But the fact that there's a lot of like the 64%, if you add them together, those who won't ever sell and those who won't sell in 10 years, that's a lot of homes that are kept off the market.

Matt Egan, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

EGAN: Thanks, Sara.

SIDNER: All right. Plus, it is the movie that made so many afraid to get in the water. I'm sorry, folks, but "Jaws" turns 50 years old today. We take a look back at the first real summer blockbuster.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ten thousand dollars for me by myself. For that, you get the head, the tail, the whole damn thing.

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[09:53:27]

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're going to need a bigger boat.

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BERMAN: I mean, and the shark is in the pond, too. I mean, 50 years ago today, "Jaws" hit the big screen. Steven Spielberg's 1975 classic about a shark with malign intentions initiated the craze of summer blockbusters. And really, that shark was not nice at all.

Still, the International Shark File says the chance of being attacked by a shark is about one in four million. Nevertheless, half of Americans say they are still scared of sharks. Understandably.

SIDNER: Completely, especially after that movie. All right, high society meets high drama in the Emmy-nominated series "The Gilded Age." The highly anticipated third season kicks off Sunday with the old money elite on the ropes and the Russell family ready to rise.

This season, George Russell, which is played by Morgan Spector, risks everything on a scheme that could revolutionize the railroad industry if it doesn't ruin him first. I spoke with Gilded Age star Morgan Spector about the upcoming season airing on HBO, also owned, of course, by CNN's parent company.

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SIDNER: Thank you so much for being here.

MORGAN SPECTOR, ACTOR: My pleasure. Thank you.

SIDNER: You play this, you know, railroad tycoon and a robber baron. I mean, how difficult is that role for you? Because you seem so soft- spoken and lovely.

SPECTOR: Well, George has his soft-spoken and gentle side.

SIDNER: He's got his human side.

SPECTOR: He does, yeah. And I think, you know, part of what I like about this character is I get to -- I get to really -- you know, he has -- he's incredibly tender and loving with his daughter. He's got this wonderful egalitarian marriage with his wife. And so there are those places where, I don't know, it's a little easier to connect to the character. And then there are other places where he's, you know, a ruthless tyrant. And, you know, it's pretty fun to do that stuff, too.

[09:55:13]

SIDNER: Do you see parallels as you're playing this role? It's rich versus actually not so rich and then the poor and working class. Do you see the parallels happening in today's society as you're playing this role in Gilded Age?

SPECTOR: I mean, it's hard to see. We, you know, if you think about the inauguration, we -- in January, you had this sort of phalanx of billionaires standing behind the dais. We obviously have an incredible income and wealth inequality in this country that keeps growing. So -- so yeah, it's hard not to see the comparison. SIDNER: All right. So, I heard that this season is going to have -- I don't know how, but more drama. Can you give us some sense of what the audience might see? Because there's all these little dramas between different people as they're trying to sort of scale to the tops of society.

SPECTOR: Yeah. Well, as you teased in your intro, George is in the process of building the Transcontinental Railroad, which is obviously an incredibly fraught enterprise for him. And he does the -- we are, it is, it becomes very high risk in terms of the family's fortunes. And Bertha is doing her best to marry off our daughter Gladys in the manner that she thinks is appropriate. And that is also -- that also proves quite dangerous for our family. So, there's a lot.

And also it's the third season. We know -- we know all these characters. The world has gotten richer. Our relationship with the characters has gotten deeper. And so now there can be drama in every single scene. And I think that's -- at least on a page, that's what it looked like to me.

SIDNER: We saw things sort of, when it comes to sort of getting the daughter, your daughter married and, you know, she's trying to move in society. And, you know, there's still some of that going on today where people are trying to make moves. When you look at how all of this has played out, what's it like being part of this drama that has gotten a lot of acclaim? It's gotten, you know, it's won awards. And people are really invested in each character and what happens to them.

SPECTOR: Yeah. We got to watch the -- we'd never had a premiere for this show because of COVID and then the double strikes after our second season. So, finally, a couple of nights ago, we got to watch the show with an audience. And it, I mean, gasps, boos, everyone. I mean, people were so invested and so in it and so willing to sort of talk back to the show. It was -- it was really fantastic. That level of engagement with these characters. They feel like they belong to the audience. And, you know, that's to be part of something like that, where people are just enjoying it, just really sort of deeply invested in it. It's -- it's a pleasure. That's what you hope for.

SIDNER: My friends and I joke that we get too invested and we really think of you all.

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SIDNER: We get invested in that is the truth. The season three premiere of "The Gilded Age" airs Sunday, 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on HBO.

BERMAN: Drama in every scene, just like CNN News Central. Exactly. Thank you all for joining us. Have a great weekend. Situation Room is up next.

SIDNER: Friday!

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