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Trump Floats Iran Regime Change as Israel Hits Tehran with New Strikes; Iran State Media: Fordow Nuclear Site Struck Again Today; Israel Targets Iranian Prison Holding Activists, Journalists. Aired 8- 8:30a ET

Aired June 23, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: There was one in 1991 relating to Iraq and Saddam Hussein. And then there were two, as you alluded to, John, after 9-11.

And presidents have relied on those post-9-11 authorizations recently and for many years since. Barack Obama relied on them. Donald Trump relied on them during his first presidency. Joe Biden relied on them.

So the question will be, could Donald Trump now again point back to those post-9-11 authorizations and say, that is the basis on which I approved and ordered these attacks?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Of course, there are a lot of legal scholars. And again, you can find legal scholars on both sides. But I would say the preponderance here is to say, Iran does not fall within that AUMF having to do with 9-11 or whatnot.

Elie Honig, we could talk for an hour on this. I hope at some point we get to. Thank you.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking this morning in the last few hours, Israel striking access routes to Iran's Fordow nuclear facility and targeting a notorious Iranian prison. Israel says it's hitting the heart of Tehran.

President Trump now saying U.S. bombers obliterated three Iranian nuclear sites. But there are questions this morning as to just how significant the damage is.

And the president also floating regime change in Iran as Tehran vows to make America pay for the strikes.

I'm Sara Sidner with John Berman. Kate Bolduan is out today. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BERMAN: All right, we do have breaking news, a number of major developments. For the first time, President Trump is floating the idea of regime change in Iran. It comes as Israel is launching new attacks on Iran and as the U.S. is still assessing the impact of its own strikes on the country's nuclear facilities over the weekend. And big questions this morning over how Iran will respond.

We do have before and after images that appear to show large craters at Iran's Fordow nuclear facility, probably from those U.S. bunker- busting bombs. The U.N.'s nuclear watchdog says the strikes likely caused very significant damage.

We have before and after images also appearing to show significant damage to Iran's largest nuclear research complex in Isfahan. But the U.N.'s watchdog said today that it is unclear whether Iran may have moved its nearly 900-pound stockpile of enriched uranium.

And now the head of Iran's armed forces is warning the U.S. that it will never back down. Not a word yet, though, from Iran's supreme leader. The Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has been silent even after President Trump posted this.

If the current Iranian regime is unable to make Iran great again, why wouldn't there be a regime change?

That statement really does seem to contradict his own administration officials who have said regime change is not a goal here.

Let's get right to CNN's Alayna Treene at the White House. Pete Hegseth could not have been more clear. This is not about regime change. Several hours later, President Trump says, hey, what about regime change?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: No, exactly. And it's not just Pete Hegseth who we heard that from yesterday. We saw all of the people who have really been in the Situation Room with the president try to reiterate that.

That has been the public line of the administration, that this isn't about regime change. You also saw Vice President J.D. Vance yesterday on The Sunday Show say that. You saw Marco Rubio, Secretary of State, but also national security adviser to the president, say similar things.

And now you have the president saying that he's open, essentially, really floating this idea that they are open to regime change, depending on how Iran responds.

But look, to give you a little sense of what I'm hearing in my conversations here at the White House, this idea of regime change is really something I know that this administration had been trying to avoid. And the president himself had kind of been asking these questions, I know, behind the scenes in his series of meetings with his national security team throughout the entire week, even after we've learned that he was beginning to order some of these attack plans, this idea that he does not want to thrust the United States into a prolonged war despite some of these strikes.

And I know as well that something that's weighing on the mind of a lot of the people here at the White House is this idea of people drawing comparisons to, you know, George W. Bush, the former president, you know, involving the United States in that second Iraq war. We heard Vice President J.D. Vance yesterday say it's completely different. He tried to argue that President Donald Trump is not dumb, like some of his predecessors. But again, that is a key question. And of course, you know, what this administration is trying to figure out now.

We know that the president is going to be meeting with his national security team at 1 p.m. in the Oval Office. And this idea of what these next steps are and how the United States is going to respond, particularly once we see how Iran's supreme leader responds, is really the key question here.

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And ones I know that they are still trying to figure out behind closed doors.

BERMAN: Alayna, what are you hearing from U.S. officials about what concrete information they have about how much damage was done to Iran's nuclear capabilities?

TREENE: Yes, look, I mean, this is something that, of course, we've now heard the president repeatedly insist that these strikes were very successful. He argued that the United States obliterated these different -- these three different nuclear facilities that they strike. But then we heard different things from other top officials here in this administration.

For example, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Dan Caine, he said yesterday that essentially these three nuclear sites sustained, quote, severe damage, but that it's too soon to tell whether or not, you know, they would completely took out all of the nuclear capabilities, particularly at that site, Fordow, which we know was buried deep underground, surrounded by concrete. That's something the administration is still assessing.

And that's the other thing here as well, is if they're going to move forward. We've heard the president now warn the Iranians that if they do not move toward peace, if they do not come to the table and try to find some sort of diplomatic solution, that more targets could be struck by the United States military. All of that weighing heavily as they try to assess and monitor how much damage was actually done through these strikes. It's just a question that's still very much unknown -- John.

BERMAN: CNN's Alayna Treene at the White House. A busy day there again today. Thank you -- Sara.

SIDNER: This morning, the worry for the U.S., how will Iran retaliate? At the same time, Israel says it's carrying out new strikes on the country, including in the capital, Tehran. Iranian state TV now saying the Fordow nuclear site, which the U.S. bombed over the weekend, has been targeted again.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh joining me now. What can you tell us about this latest wave of strikes that are coming in just this morning?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the Israeli military saying we're talking about 100 possible strikes here. That would make it probably the second biggest wave since this phase of the conflict began last Friday. Significant number of targets hit in Tehran.

Our own team on the ground there seeing phenomenal damage in some parts of the capital there. But also importantly, a prison, Evin prison, housing political prisons, that appears to have been hit as well. But also too, as you mentioned there, the Fordow nuclear plant, so key as a target to the United States over the weekend, that appears to have been hit again by the Israeli military this time, they say, targeting the access routes to it.

So that is either potentially people trying to retrieve from inside the rubble, assess what's under the rubble, or potentially other nuclear workers on other areas around there under Israeli target. So clearly a feeling, I think, in Tel Aviv, that there's more potential destruction they might want to visit on that particular plant.

Although we have been hearing from the UN inspectors who say that very considerable damage has been done. They, in fact, point out how fragile to the shock waves from the enormous bombs used by the United States, 12 of these bunker busters that the delicate centrifuges for enrichment indeed are.

But we are also seeing today increased sense of rhetoric from Iranian officials about the kind of retaliation they might seek to visit on the United States. I should say we should take some of that with the knowledge that their ballistic missile arsenal appears to have been significantly depleted.

Israel claiming they'd taken 800 of what may be a 2,000 to 2,500 stockpile out on the ground, buried them in the rubble, they said, in recent strikes. That limits potentially what Iran might be able to do. We are also hearing, though, that the U.S. embassy in Qatar, where there is the significant U.S. military base of Al Udeid, they are telling their staff to shelter in place out of what they refer to as an abundance of caution.

And indeed, too, there are concerns that the Strait of Hormuz, an exceptionally narrow for ships that is, the shipping canal just two miles wide, part of the Gulf seas, which Iran is to the north of, and through which Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, so many Middle Eastern energy giants ship their oil and gas, about a fifth of the world's supply, according to some data, worth half a trillion dollars, that there's the potential there for some disruption, with Iran's parliament suggesting they might even shut it in retaliation. But I should point out that would damage Iran's export capacity. It would even damage the economy of their key ally, China, and, of course, rock the global energy markets.

But a lot moving here, certainly. But remarkable, I think, that after these U.S. strikes, we've seen this extraordinarily intense wave of Israeli target, potentially, it seems, hitting the Revolutionary Guard Corps sites across Iran -- Sara.

SIDNER: Yes and absolutely seeing the blast here of Evin Prison. And our crew on the ground is getting extraordinary pictures also from Tehran, showing some of the results of the strikes there. Thank you so much, Nick Paton Walsh. A great report for us this morning -- John.

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BERMAN: All right. With us now is John Bolton, President Trump's former national security advisor, a former U.S. ambassador to the U.N., Ambassador Bolton, nice to see you.

President Trump, late last night, floated the idea of regime change in Iran. How do you feel about regime change as a U.S. goal?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, I think it should be America's declared policy. The regime itself is the problem here, has been all along, both through its nuclear program, its ballistic missile program, its support for terrorist groups in the Middle East, around the world.

This regime's been in power 46 years. It will not change its behavior. So the only foundation for long-term peace and security in the Middle East is to overthrow the Ayatollahs.

BERMAN: So you think that regime change should be stated, explicit U.S. policy. You, among other things, are an accomplished lawyer, a constitutional lawyer. Where would the authority come for regime change if that became the United States' goal?

BOLTON: The United States has inherent authority to defend itself. And if you need further proof of that, the U.N. Charter, Article 51, guarantees to every member state, and I quote, the inherent right of individual and collective self-defense. It is an American decision, what's in our self-interest, not controlled by the United Nations or anybody else.

I think, as I said earlier, the president's done exactly the right thing here. Now the logic of protecting American interests, Israel, our Gulf Arab allies, is to work with the opposition in Iran and remove the Ayatollahs. This does not mean American boots on the ground.

It's simple-minded when people say, inevitably, we're going to be engaged in a larger war. There are a lot of ways to achieve regime change, and we ought to be actively thinking about what the best way to do it is.

BERMAN: So aside from boots on the ground, but military strikes are still military action. And I'm not arguing whether or not it is a worthy goal. I'm just asking, if regime change is a stated goal, and I understand self-defense is part of international law, but U.S. law, I think, would seem to suggest that removing a regime in a country would be an act of war, either needing a constitutional -- you know, you're based on constitutional authority or the War Powers Resolution. Do you think the president has the authority to conduct new military strikes for the purpose of regime change?

BOLTON: Of course. Look, the commander-in-chief authority in Article 2 expressly gives the president enormous power to deal with threats to the United States around the world. And let's look at a little history. In 1798 John Adams fought what was called the quasi-war against France, a naval war. No declaration of war. Went on for over two years.

Shortly thereafter, his arch political enemy, Thomas Jefferson, directed American forces to begin war against the Barbary pirates in what is today Libya. Again, no declaration of war. It went on for three or four years. There was a subsequent outbreak of war there. Again, no declaration of war.

So this is important constitutional history, deeply embedded early in our history. Two presidents who had experience, who were two of the leaders of the revolution, and participated directly and indirectly in drafting the Constitution, took America to war, and in two very different circumstances. And nobody said, where's the declaration of war? A declaration of war says Congress declares that a state of war exists between the United States and X.

So here's a question for you. When Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on December the 7th, 1941, Congress responded to President Roosevelt's request and declared war, I think it was the next day or the day after, let's say December the 8th. When did World War II begin for the United States?

Pearl Harbor attack or declaration of war by Congress? It's perfectly obvious it began with the Japanese attack. That's the reality.

People say, well, what's Congress's role in this? Appropriating funds. If Congress doesn't like what Trump is doing in Iran, let him withhold funds.

BERMAN: As I told our audience, this is something you have thought about and written about extensively, not just recently, but for decades and decades. So I wanted you to lay out your case right there. What do you think the most likely Iranian response is at this moment to the U.S. strikes?

BOLTON: Well, I don't think it's possible to predict. I think, in fact, the question about how to respond to the United States is one of the elements that's destabilizing, potentially destabilizing to the regime, because there's going to be extensive disagreement, I believe, among top military commanders, at least the ones that are left in Iran, among some of the Ayatollahs about how to do it.

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And I think there probably are a few sensible people in Tehran who are saying, you know, since Hamas attacked Israel on October the 7th, 2023, we faced one military adversary, and it's kicking our butt. It has pummeled Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis.

The Assad regime in Syria has fallen. We are seeing our nuclear program and our ballistic missile program turned into ashes. Against one military opponent, we're not doing very well. So do we want to attack American forces, American civilian locations, or other assets in the Middle East and bring a second military adversary, the largest military power in the world, against us? I think that's a harder decision than some may think. And that's how you can see disarray at the top of the regime make it even weaker.

BERMAN: Ambassador John Bolton, we appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.

This morning, a CNN crew raced to safety as a new round of strikes fell on Tehran. We've got a first look at the damage.

The world is standing by to see how Iran does decide to respond to the U.S. strikes, how their possible retaliation could impact gas prices.

And this morning, lawmakers back on the Hill for the first time since the strikes. And they are asking some of those questions that Ambassador Bolton was just talking about. He's very hawkish on that. He is on one far end of that argument.

What's the other side? Stay with us.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right, breaking this morning, Israel carried out new strikes in Tehran, hitting a wider range of targets than before, maybe signaling an effort to destabilize parts of the regime.

CNN was there, saw it firsthand. The targets included Iran's Evin Prison that houses political prisoners and journalists, also a headquarters of a branch of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard.

As this was happening, CNN's Fred Pleitgen and his team, they were on the ground there. Our crew raced to safety, then filed this report after getting the all clear.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So we've just witnessed a massive airstrike here on the area of sort of northern central Tehran. We actually went downstairs into a shelter once we heard planes overhead and then we heard explosions. You can see now the sky over the northwest of Tehran is completely filled with smoke. It seemed to us as though it were several really, really strong impacts that took place.

And if we look over to the left here, you can see the smoke seems to be emanating from that area. That's more towards the west of Iran, the sort of northwest of Tehran, of the Iranian capital. This is the first time since we've been here that we've seen a heavy airstrike like this in the fairly central part of the city.

So we're only going to be able to be up here for not much longer. But this is definitely something that I wouldn't say is unprecedented, definitely something that we haven't seen in the past couple of days. Coming, of course, exactly after the Trump administration struck those nuclear facilities and the Iranians are vowing revenge for that.

Of course, the Israelis also continuing their air campaign. And right now, as you can see, the skies over Tehran filled with thick black smoke.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Tehran.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: You can hear it in Fred's voice how unsettling it is to go through one of those airstrikes. We are wishing he and his crew the best.

Let's get right to CNN's Nic Robertson, who is in Tel Aviv. Nic, what are you learning about these strikes that Fred saw firsthand?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, unprecedented force is the language that Israel's foreign minister, Israel Katz, is using about the strikes on Tehran. Also, the IDF giving details of the different regime targets that they're hitting there, and many of them are sort of to do with internal security. The Evin jail, that's where the maximum security most feared, if you will, political prisoners are held, feared by the regime. Of course, political prisoners are held.

The Basij, which is a volunteer paramilitary that supports the IRGC, they have been very effective for the regime at anti-regime demonstrations, beating protesters off the streets, detaining people.

So what it appears that Israel is signaling that it's targeting are elements that would keep the population of Iran under control. And that was sort of doubled down on in a post put out by the foreign minister here, Gideon Saar, who said, Iran, we've told you to stop targeting civilians and then shows a picture of the doors being blown off at that Evin Prison, saying this is our response.

The implication seems to be that you're targeting your own civilians and we're helping give them freedom from you. It appears to indicate this potential shift towards regime change.

And I think another note that we've heard that's sort of on track with that, or certainly can be taken in this context, we've heard from the finance minister here, Bezalel Smotrich, who is a very hardline nationalist member of Benjamin Netanyahu's government, just spoke about the three most important targets, the nuclear targets, the weapons targets, missiles targets, and the proxies in the region. And that's something we haven't heard before, indicating that perhaps the targeting of these is almost complete.

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Is this a signaling by some of the sort of close officials within the prime minister Netanyahu's government, an indication that they think they're getting to the end of their targeting cycle? It's not clear, but it is clearly shifting not just the nuclear attack sites that were hit today, not just the missile storage sites that were hit today, but an element to give the Iranian people greater freedom from their leadership.

BERMAN: Such important nuance you're pointing out in these new strikes in Tehran. Nic Robertson in Tel Aviv for us this morning. Thank you, Nic -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right, joining us now, CNN Global Affairs analyst Kim Dozier and retired General Wesley Clark, former NATO Supreme Allied Commander. First to you, General Clark.

This morning, Israel says it's striking at the heart of Tehran. That's how they put it. Hitting regime targets, Evin Prison, which holds political prisoners of Iran.

Does this attack seem to be shifting the war towards Israel, pushing for regime change instead of just concentrating on eradicating Iran's nuclear facilities?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: Absolutely right. That's exactly what they're doing. I think President Trump probably got word of it yesterday where he tweeted out the hint about regime change.

There's more to be done. They're going to have to go after regional Basij headquarters, police stations and other things. There are groups inside Iran and outside who would push and try to follow through on the regime change, but they're cautious because previous efforts at regime change by these internal groups haven't succeeded.

The Basij have been really brutal, really effective. It's hard to communicate now from outside into Iran. So there's more to be done by the Israelis if their aim is regime change.

SIDNER: General Clark alluded to this, Kim. Trump is talking about regime change on social media this morning after all of his cabinet members had said, look, this is only about annihilating Iran's nuclear program. I mean, this is the slippery slope that a lot of people were concerned about and whether the United States would get involved.

What would it take?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, he may simply be signaling to the supreme leader of Iran that, look, we held the Israelis back from killing you before. We said we know exactly where you are. We could decide to go through with this if you don't come to the negotiating table or if you strike back in a deadly way against U.S. troops spread throughout the Gulf region.

The problem with this threat is that the Ayatollah doesn't think of getting assassinated in the same way that a Western leader would. Martyrdom is a key tenant in Shia Islam. He has picked his successors.

If the U.S. kills him, it would guarantee there will be no negotiations and we will likely see Iran race for a nuclear weapon, which these strikes over the weekend may have guaranteed in any event. SIDNER: General Clark, what can Iran do as it promises retaliation to strike out at the U.S.? I mean, how concerned should U.S. citizens be about the possibility of an asymmetric response from Iran, a terrorist attack, if you will, using a sleeper cell or a cyber attack?

CLARK: Well, we do -- we do believe there are sleeper cells here in the United States. We're on alert. Homeland Security is on it. I'm sure that every state is reviewing through its own Homeland Security command centers what the risks are and how to protect them.

But I think the major effort by Iran is if it retaliates and when it retaliates will be against using militia against forces in the region, U.S. forces in the region. They're going to do it in an indirect way. But these strikes on the IRGC headquarters and Basij, they throw off the Iranian ability to retaliate. And so I think this is the beginning of something that could be the real next phase of this operation.

What I want to caution, Kim, is that, yes, the Iranian leadership is prepared for martyrdom. But somewhere down in the IRGC or in other groups, there are reasonable, rational people who have families who say, this is crazy. Let's get this stopped.

The real solution, and John Bolton said it previously, this regime from the time it came into power has been nothing but trouble. The real solution in the Middle East is there has to be either the regime has to renounce its aim to destroy Israel or you're going to have to have a new regime.

SIDNER: Kim, I just spoke last hour with the former spokesperson for the Israel Defense Forces who said there are a couple of things here.

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