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Interview With Former Acting U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security Chad Wolf; Trump Visits Alligator Alcatraz; Interview With Rep. Greg Murphy (R-NC); Trump-Elon Spat Resumes; Republican Senate Passes Budget Bill. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 01, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:03]

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, this is something that Donald Trump has done since long before he was president, vodka, Trump Steaks, so many things, so it's clearly just keeping on that tradition.

But, boy, we have never heard of it before, but now it just seems normal.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Except it's not.

ZELENY: Except it's not.

BASH: Which is why we want to make sure not to lose sight of it.

Before we go, we do want you to submit your questions about Capitol Hill, about the White House, about politics around the country. Scan the Q.R. code. You see it there at the bottom of your screen. Send us your question, and our political panel will try to answer it right here on the show. You can also find the link on my social media pages.

Thanks so much for joining INSIDE POLITICS.

"CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: After a marathon vote in the Senate, President Trump's megabill crosses the finish line with the help of Vice President J.D. Vance.

In the meantime, the hatchet may not have been buried very deep, President Trump and Elon Musk going at it again over the One Big Beautiful Bill.

Plus, President Trump sees an opportunity to flex on his immigration crackdown with a visit to a new controversial migrant detention facility surrounded by swamps and dangerous wildlife.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And fed up. After facing months of threats and name-calling from the president for not cutting interest rates, Fed Chair Jerome Powell just told everyone why he hasn't.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: Breaking news, the vote-a-rama is over. The drama is not. After 26-plus hours, a record-breaking number of amendment votes and a last-minute scramble to lock in holdouts, Senate Republicans passed the president's One Big Beautiful Bill, Vice President J.D. Vance breaking the tie after three Republicans voted no with Democrats.

The stage is now set for a showdown in the House.

CNN's Arlette Saenz live for us on Capitol Hill.

Arlette, tell us the latest.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, Republican leaders are expressing some relief now that they have passed President Trump's domestic policy agenda bill out of the Senate, but they still acknowledge that there is more work to do in the House, as they still need to consider the changes that were made to this bill.

Ultimately, Vice President J.D. Vance served as the tiebreaking vote. There were three Republican senators who voted against the measure. That is Thom Tillis of North Carolina, who has said he is not running for reelection, Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky, who has expressed concerns about the amount of spending in this bill.

And then there is Senator Susan Collins, who posted on X a short while ago that her decision boiled down to the cuts being made to Medicaid. She wrote -- quote -- "I strongly support extending the tax relief for families and small businesses. My vote against this bill stems primarily from the harmful impact it will have on Medicaid, affecting low-income families and rural health care providers like our hospitals and nursing homes."

Now, this vote today capped off a marathon voting session where senators could offer up amendments, but it also caps off days of where Senate Republican leaders were cajoling and trying to make deals to try to get this across the finish line.

One of the senators that they really targeted in this effort was Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, who ultimately did vote yes on this measure. But they were working her up until the final hours. And shortly after the bill had passed, she spoke to reporters and said that this bill isn't perfect, and it's her hope that it could potentially continue to have some changes as it goes to the House and maybe back to the Senate, if they don't push it through there.

But for Senate Majority Leader John Thune, this is certainly something that he has been working towards for several months. And here is how he kind of capped up what has been happening around this bill on the Senate floor a short while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): Since we took office in January, Republicans have been laser-focused on achieving the bill before us today. And now we're here passing legislation that will permanently extend tax relief for hardworking Americans.

I hope everyone manages to get some sleep. I look forward to the House taking up and passing this historic legislation and getting it to the president's desk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, there is still a lot of work that needs to be done over in the House, where some GOP lawmakers have already started to express concerns with the measure.

There are conservatives who think that this does not do enough when it comes to cut spending. That's something Senator Rand Paul warned about, saying that fiscal conservatives are going to look at this and see that it adds more to the debt than the House bill had done.

There are also those who are concerned with the steeper cuts that are being made to Medicaid in the Senate version. So these are all issues that House Speaker Mike Johnson will have to carefully work through in the coming days. They are still hoping to get this to President Trump's desk by that July 4 deadline, though he has shown some willingness to potentially delay that deadline a bit.

[13:05:16]

But this is all something Speaker Johnson will now have to work through. Remember, when the bill had passed the House the last time, they worked very carefully to craft this in a way that it would pass. It passed with only one vote. And so he is going to work with some very tough math as he's trying to please all of the parties involved now that this bill is heading over to the House.

KEILAR: Arlette Saenz, thank you for that report from the Hill -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: The battle over the One Big Beautiful Bill has reignited President Trump's feud with Elon Musk.

Musk now threatening to tank the political careers of Republicans who vote to pass it. The president then warning that, when he is ready, he's going to pit the agency that once was run by Musk, DOGE, against the world's richest man. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We might have to put DOGE on Elon. You know what DOGE is? DOGE is the monster that might have to go back and eat Elon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Let's go to the White House now with CNN's Kristen Holmes.

Kristen, what more are Musk and the president saying?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Boris, I mean, it feels like deja vu, right?

We had this moment back in time a few weeks ago when Musk and President Trump really started going after each other because of this Big Beautiful Bill. Of course, that's Donald Trump's term for it, Musk attacking the bill, saying it was too much spending, that it was too fatty, that they needed to cut it down.

And then we know that a number of lawmakers and allies got involved in this and essentially told Elon Musk to knock it off, to back away from these attacks on the president and on his agenda, saying there were other things that were more important.

Now it seems as though this passage in the Senate has reignited Elon Musk, attacks on the bill. We heard him saying that there should be a third party, that he wanted to start a third party, but the real moment of potential concern for Republicans and perhaps even for President Trump is when Elon Musk tweeted this.

He said: "Every member of Congress who campaigned on reducing government spending and then immediately voted for the biggest debt increase in history should hang their head in shame and they will lose their primary next year if it's the last thing I do on this Earth."

Remember, Elon Musk had said he was going to take a step back from politics, but he's also widely credited for helping President Trump win because of the hundreds of millions of dollars he poured into this race -- poured into that race. So the question here is how seriously Republicans are going to take Elon Musk.

He's got a lot of money, but they also have on one side President Trump, who is going to be endorsing candidates, campaigning for candidates. So it's really going to become kind of an issue for some of these people who are up for reelection as they look at this bill, particularly in the House, whether or not they want to take on Elon Musk or if they want to take on President Trump.

But, again, it's really starting to feel like deja vu because when I speak to allies today, especially people who had spoken to both President Trump and Elon Musk about all of this, they thought that this was water under the bridge, that they had moved on. Elon Musk had called Trump. It was not going to be the same way that it was before when they were here in Washington working side by side, but that this kind of attack system was out of everyone's system.

It doesn't seem like that now, Boris. So we will see what happens next.

SANCHEZ: We will be watching closely. Kristen Holmes at the White House. Thank you so much.

Now that it's passed the Senate, a source tells CNN the House is expected to vote on the Senate's version of the bill tomorrow.

So let's discuss with a lawmaker who will be casting a ballot. Republican Congressman Greg Murphy of North Carolina joins us now live. Congressman, thank you so much for being with us.

I want to ask you about concerns regarding what this bill might do to the deficit and how this math adds up. By extending these tax cuts that mostly benefit the wealthiest Americans, according to a number of estimates, we're limiting the revenue that the government takes in. And that's being offset in theory with cuts to programs that mostly benefit lower-income Americans.

But not enough is actually being cut to fully offset the lost revenue. So how are you not adding to the deficit, while taking away critical resources from the working class?

REP. GREG MURPHY (R-NC): Well, Boris, I disagree with a couple of things that you just said.

This bill does not overly benefit the most wealthy individuals. If you look just -- if you look proportionately with the tax cuts, the fact that people have higher wages as you move forward with a growth in economy, it actually helps -- as we saw during the first administration, Trump administration, actually helped lower- and- middle income individuals higher.

Yes, there is a small smidgen of the highest earners that still gain a little bit. But, remember, the top 10 percent of earners in this country pay 75 percent of the taxes. And that percentage actually went up after the Trump tax cuts in 2017. So that's a real fallacy as to what the tax cuts do. They bring the whole economy up.

[13:10:08]

Again, if we don't pass this, it's an average $1,700 tax hike on the average individual. So I just -- I really want to try to be objective when we're talking about this and not have hyperbole one way or the other.

There are some things in this bill that I think are great. We're going to raise -- allow small businesses really to grow, which is really the mainstay employer of this company. We're going to let corporations still be able to expense and do things so that they can grow their economies and then they can they can employ more individuals.

There are challenges with this -- some of these things. The Senate did some things that I don't agree with. It just depends upon, when it comes back, and I -- again, they just literally passed it. And I have calls with my staff and other individuals this afternoon to see what I'm going to be able to tolerate.

Or is this something that a significant number of individuals in the House are not going to be able to tolerate and we need to send it back to the Senate for conference.

SANCHEZ: Sure.

I just want to be precise on a number of things, Congressman. It's not necessarily hyperbole the way that I describe the bill, given that a number of independent analyses have estimated the effects that the entire bill are going to have on both higher-income and lower-income Americans.

Also, it's very possible that Republicans, those in control of Congress, could have separated extensions to the tax cuts from the more broad cuts to Medicare, for example.

MURPHY: Sure.

SANCHEZ: Generally, though, I know that there are some disagreements over what it's going to do to...

MURPHY: You mean Medicaid.

SANCHEZ: Correct, yes, Medicaid.

There are some disagreements over what it's going to do to the deficit. But you have previously expressed apprehension about lifting the debt ceiling. The House bill raises it by $4 trillion, the Senate version by even more.

So then how do you respond to Elon Musk when he writes -- quote -- "What's the point of the debt ceiling if we keep raising it?"

MURPHY: Yes. Well, I think that's true. I think that the debt ceiling is this artificial barrier that we imposed upon ourselves, literally is just a reminder that we spend out of control.

I think what has to look at -- and you have looked at what CBO has said about raising the debt, et cetera. CBO, I'm sorry, and I have said this many times before, they get it wrong just as often as they get it right. You can't look at some one -- just part of an equation. You have to look at a second part of an equation.

And they have our growth estimate down to a paltry, meager 1.8 percent. There's no way that's going to happen. It's going to be in the high 2's, if not in the mid 3's, to be able to grow things. So you will grow the economy, you will grow receipts.

And, again, we can't necessarily be stuck on a number when it comes to the deficit. We have to look at the proportion, the debt-to-GDP ratio. And if we're creating and increasing that delta, that's really the best marker for our bond markets, especially, to say that the economy is good and that we're not going to default on our debt.

So, again, if you're looking at what the one side is going to say, if you look just at the loss column, you get one figure. But if you look at the total picture as in the gain column, I think we're in a much, much better place than we would be without this bill.

SANCHEZ: I do want to get to the impact that this might have on folks in communities like yours and the care that they're provided.

MURPHY: Sure.

SANCHEZ: But I do want to ask whether you're concerned about the threats from Elon Musk. He's talking about primarying Republicans who vote for this bill. He spent something like $300 million on the last election. Are you comfortable being on a potential list of names that he's promising to take down?

MURPHY: You know, Boris, I have from day one come into this office because the good people of Eastern North Carolina voted me in.

I think they believe in my ability to look at issues and try to make good decisions. If they feel for some reason that I'm not the right one, then I have got to back up. I can go back and be a lowly surgeon full time. So I don't get caught up in these extraneous threats or whatever. I think Elon is pure in heart. He's really trying to do what's right for the country. I have no problem with that.

It's just when you have people with strong opinions that get in the way and make threats, I don't respond to those. I'm just trying to do my job and trying to do what's best for this nation and for Eastern North Carolina.

SANCHEZ: I do want to let our viewers know you are a physician, as you noted, a surgeon.

MURPHY: Yes.

SANCHEZ: So you probably have a keen interest in how the care that folks receive and their health insurance might be impacted by this bill.

MURPHY: Sure.

SANCHEZ: There is another skeptic of the BBB closer to home. That's the senior senator from North Carolina, Thom Tillis.

He says that this bill betrays President Trump's promises by slashing nearly a trillion in Medicaid funding. Do you think that Senator Tillis is wrong or misinformed?

MURPHY: No, I think he did a very good job of getting three independent agencies to look at what the effects of the Senate bill are.

And I think the Senate approach and the House approach are two different things. We were very clear on the House on waste, fraud, abuse. There's definitely waste. People who should not be on Medicaid rolls should not be there.

[13:15:01]

For example, in North Carolina, you are not allowed to audit the Medicaid roles, which should be done twice a year, for eligibility requirements. If you're an impoverished child, pregnant female, disabled, impoverished senior, those are the eligibility requirements.

If you're not -- you don't fit those, you should not be on Medicaid. The second thing is, people in the country illegally -- we took in 13, 15 million individuals. Why is it up to the taxpayer to provide health care for them?

And then finally, able-bodied. Boris, I still see patients. I saw them this morning, in fact. Most people I see are on Medicaid because I have to do this for free. That said, we have to have a program that works for the individuals. Who is it supposed to work for?

Now -- so that was the approach in the House, the waste, fraud and abuse. The Senate's taken a different approach, looking at some of the problems that have occurred with hospital reimbursements, the fact that they tax themselves, send money to the state, and the state draws down $2 from the federal government for every dollar that they get taxed.

And there's some sham in that system. And it's grown, it's grown, it's grown over the last decade. We have to get back to where we have resources that are for the population of Medicaid that are for the population of Medicaid, and not for individuals who don't need to be on that.

SANCHEZ: So...

MURPHY: I'm going to be studying their final proposal a lot more this afternoon, and I will make a decision this afternoon or this evening.

SANCHEZ: Quickly, Congressman, once you review that, can you guarantee your constituents, those and the country legally, those not committing fraud to obtain care, that they're not going to lose their coverage?

MURPHY: You know, that's the intent. That's the intent. Somebody gave up the other day about paperwork, this, that, and the other stuff. Well, that's part of being an adult. You have to do paperwork.

The intent is to create a system that cares for our most vulnerable, those who are least able to be able to afford health care and provide them the health care, while still have a government that we do not go bankrupt. People really need to understand we're really trying to just keep the country solvent in doing all these things. It's a painful time, but it's the only time, the only chance we really have.

Otherwise, this country and this nation fails, and I'm not going to allow that happen on my watch.

SANCHEZ: Congressman Greg Murphy, we have to leave the conversation there. Appreciate you sharing your point of view.

MURPHY: Thank you, Boris. Have a good day.

SANCHEZ: You too.

Still to come: As the Senate voted on the megabill that will boost funds for the president's immigration crackdown, Trump toured a controversial detention center in the Florida Everglades. We will take you there live.

Plus, day two of jury deliberations in the Sean "Diddy" Combs trial. We will take you outside the courthouse for the latest on what's happening behind closed doors.

And, later, Fed church Jerome Powell punches back, saying he would have cut rates if it weren't for Trump's policies.

We will get into the details when we come back on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:22:09]

SANCHEZ: Right now, President Trump is headed back to D.C. after visiting the nation's newest and most controversial migrant detention center, what the administration is calling Alligator Alcatraz because of its location in the Florida Everglades.

The president spent time touring the heavy-duty tents, trailers and temporary buildings that make up the facility. Critics are describing this as an inhumane makeshift prison camp on protected lands. Supporters see it as a national model for aggressively ramping up the president's deportation efforts.

Let's get the latest from CNN's Priscilla Alvarez.

So, Priscilla, talk to us about Trump's visit.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a facility that is expected to hold up to 5,000 people. Of course, the administration has been seeking places where they can detain individuals that they are arresting and leaning on allies to do it, in this case, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis.

Now, the president touted the facility multiple times over the course of the both getting there and while he was touring the facility. Here's some of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: This was a brilliant choice. I give the governor a lot of credit for using this piece of land. And, in addition to that, it's on top of something that was already developed. It's an airport. You have the runways. You have the -- so it's already been developed.

So it's not like you're dropping dirt right into the -- there was zero movement of that. That was done many years ago because the airport's very old, but it was an abandoned railroad -- an abandoned airport. And, frankly, it's, like, perfect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: Now, they have been constructing soft-sided facilities. You can see that there was -- the president was touring.

It's also still a pricey endeavor, costing around $450 million, though the state of Florida will be able to seek reimbursements from FEMA as they continue to use this facility. But, Boris, this is really a visit that achieved three things for President Donald Trump. One, it allowed him to have that backdrop of this facility, this controversial migrant detention facility, as he continues to tout his hard-line immigration policies.

Number two, it helps to -- helps with their needs of having detention beds, something that they could get far more of if that bill passes the House, but in the interim helps them nonetheless as they try to ramp up immigration arrests.

And, three, something that the president talked about often over the course of his visit is that self-deportation, essentially trying to showcase something that is so miserable, in this case in the swampy Everglades surrounded by alligators and pythons, that people who are in the country illegally will choose to leave on their own.

Now, again, to that final point, again, this is a place that is located in the Everglades, has been surrounded by alligators, which is why they're calling it Alligator Alcatraz. And it is not just migrant rights groups that have been protesting this, but also environmentalist groups, who say that this has no business on these lands.

[13:25:09]

So, certainly something that's been controversial, and where protesters were outside of the facility saying as much earlier today.

SANCHEZ: Priscilla Alvarez, thank you so much for the update -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Let's talk more now with Chad Wolf. He is serving -- he served as acting homeland security secretary in the first Trump administration. He's now executive vice president of the America First Policy Institute, which is a think tank with deep ties to the Trump administration.

Mr. Wolf as we talk about this site that the president visited today, are you confident that there will only be, as the White House press secretary put it, illegal murderers, rapists, heinous criminals housed at this site, and no migrants with minor infractions or with no records at all?

CHAD WOLF, FORMER ACTING U.S. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, look, I think how DHS in the state of Florida uses that facility is going to be similar to all other facilities, which is they're targeting the worst of the worst, but again all individuals that are eligible to be deported or on that pathway to removal from the country go into a variety of detention facilities.

And I suspect that you will see a variety of folks housed in over 5,000 beds in this facility alone.

KEILAR: So "The Washington Post" analyze numbers and found that the number of criminals and accused criminals arrested by ICE is up significantly, up 128 percent compared to a year ago, but the number of immigrants with no criminal record arrested and detained by ICE is up by more than 1400 percent. So would you expect there then to be more of a mix like that in a facility like that or any other facility?

WOLF: Of course.

Again, we're talking about illegal aliens that again don't have a legal right to remain in the United States that are eligible to be removed. That's what this administration is doing. They have said time and again that they're going to focus on the worst, the criminal aliens, but that no one is exempt from the law.

So, as you do that, and as you remove these individuals, all of them have to go into detention facilities. All of them need a bed in order to be lined up to then be put on a flight out of the country. And so this facility in Florida, just like facilities all around the country, they do this every day. ICE does this on a daily basis of not only arresting criminal aliens, but arresting other individuals that perhaps have overstayed a visa, that have done a number of other things that have made them ineligible to stay in the United States.

KEILAR: The talking point, though, here was from Trump and other officials was the worst of the worst were going to go. And he has said that he's working on a plan now to let farmworkers, hotel workers and other workers stay in the U.S. because he said today -- quote -- "Without those people, you're not going to be able to run your farm."

He's talked about businesses as well. Is that just an admission by the president that the American economy relies on labor from undocumented immigrants and that they need work visas, even if they're here illegally, even if you are putting them in the same category as criminals who are here illegally?

WOLF: Yes, I think the president, my guess, and I will let the president speak for himself, is trying to find that balance of making sure that you -- again, you get the worst the worst out of the country. You're removing those individuals that don't have a legal right to be here, while making sure that you're continuing to sustain the U.S. economy in a variety of different areas, right, from ag to tourism and what it might be.

So, again, I'm not in the White House, and so the president and his advisers and others are weighing all these different considerations and are trying to come up, as you indicated and the president said, with some solution. We will see what that looks like when the White House decides to roll that out.

But, absolutely, as you undertake a massive removal program and you try to deal with four years of a completely wide-open border that the Biden administration left the Trump team, they're having to make a variety of considerations and a lot of different policy calls almost on a weekly basis.

And the president's admission that he wants to do something for that agricultural work force, for those farmers is an indication of that.

KEILAR: But that's not new, right? Right, Mr. Wolf? I mean, has he been failed by his advisers if he's only learning now what policymakers, including Republicans, have known for decades, that undocumented immigrants are essential to the U.S. economy?

WOLF: No, I don't -- I mean, there's no indication that he just learned that today or this week, right? I mean, these are conversations that they have been having for some time.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Well, let me revisit the numbers with you; 1400 percent, that's compared to last year, the number of non-criminals who are being arrested by ICE.

WOLF: Yes.

KEILAR: And then he has talked about how he has then been informed by farmers and those who own other businesses that they're having trouble...

WOLF: Yes.

KEILAR: ... which didn't come as a surprise to most people who had looked at the -- who knew anything about the work force.

WOLF: Sure.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: They didn't actually need farmers to tell them, because they could have explained that.

WOLF: And, again, if you look at the Biden administration, you will see -- you will almost -- and if you look at four years of the Biden administration, you'll see absolutely no one removed, right?