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Pete Hegseth Going Rogue on Ukraine?; Deadly Flooding in New Mexico; Number of Missing Grows in Texas. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 09, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We are live in Kerrville, Texas, where, after catastrophic flooding, at least 119 people are confirmed dead and more than 160 remain missing, as grueling search-and-rescue operations now enter their sixth day. We have the latest.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: The secretary of defense sets off a scramble. Sources telling CNN Pete Hegseth did not let the White House know he had OKed a pause on weapons shipments to Ukraine.

And zero revelations leading to growing scrutiny. Ahead, we will show you how some of the president's closest advisers are increasingly frustrated with U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi's handling of the so- called Epstein files.

We're following these major developing stories and more all coming in right here to the CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

SANCHEZ: We begin this hour with breaking news.

The scale of the flooding disaster in Central Texas is coming into clearer view, as officials confirm the number of missing has grown dramatically while the potential of finding survivors becomes less and less likely.

Right now, 161 remain missing even as crews maintain an all-hands-on deck effort across the region. Each passing moment, each passing minute represents agony for their loved ones. Search teams are now on day six of sifting through the destruction and they are facing excruciating conditions, intense heat and humidity and, of course, significant dangerous obstacles in the debris all in a desperate search to find those still unaccounted for.

Just moments ago, we confirmed that this is the deadliest freshwater flood that Texas has seen in over 100 years, at least 119 killed and counting. Officials are again today stressing the need for patience, promising to answer difficult questions about what precautions were taken and their timing and response when -- once floodwaters started to rise.

They stress that now is the time to focus on recovery efforts, though.

CNN's Shimon Prokupecz was at a briefing in Kerrville.

Shimon, what did you hear there from officials?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, SENIOR CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So, they gave us one of the more descriptive, I would say, moments in all of these briefings, because they finally gave us some information about sort of the heroic efforts and really horrific moments in the morning of, when law enforcement, the Kerrville Police Department, went in to try and do rescues, describing some of the just the insane efforts that went on to try and rescue people at that point as the floodwaters started to rise.

The other thing, there are a lot of questions here, as we just see some helicopters taking off here from the emergency operations center. One of the things that all of us have questions about is the preparedness and the anticipation here from authorities. How much of this were they anticipating? How ready were they if things really did get so bad, as they did?

And we're still not able to get those answers. So one of the things that we were trying to find out was, the lieutenant governor talked about how there was a call the day before, on July 3, with some city leaders and county officials describing the weather, potential weather conditions.

And we were trying to find out if the mayor here in Kerrville was on the call. It's quite shocking for me to hear what he said. So I'm just going to let you go ahead and listen to it and then we can talk about it when we come back.

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PROKUPECZ: The lieutenant governor said that, on July 3, that the county judges and city mayors were invited on a daily call Thursday to discuss weather forecasts. Were you on that call? Were you invited to that call? Do you know if the county judge was also on that call?

[13:05:14]

JOE HERRING JR., MAYOR OF KERRVILLE, TEXAS: I can't speak to -- for the county judge. That would be hearsay. And I'm not going to contradict the information you have. But I will tell you, personally, I did not receive a telephone call.

PROKUPECZ: You weren't invited to the call?

HERRING: I did not receive a telephone call.

PROKUPECZ: And you were never given any information about what assets were brought into the area?

HERRING: So I wasn't invited to the call. I'm not trying to deflect. I don't...

PROKUPECZ: No, no, I understand. Do you know why that -- why -- any idea how that would have -- why that would happen or...

HERRING: Maybe I'm not a local mayor. I can't tell.

All right, thank you guys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PROKUPECZ: Well, he is the local mayor. He's the mayor of this city, and obviously some sarcasm there from him.

But it's a big question here. How much were authorities working with the state? The governor has said they were prepared, they were moving resources in. The lieutenant governor has indicated that the Department of Emergency Management for the state was certainly getting ready, reviewing the weather forecast.

As to what information the local leaders here from the county and the city were given and how much they were preparing, that all remains unclear. They say, the city officials, that they're going to launch potentially at some point some kind of after-action review. But they say for now they are just so concerned about finding the missing and dealing with the victims that that is where their focus is at the moment.

But they promise us that we're going to get answers at some point. And we will see, because there still are so many questions here, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Yes, Shimon Prokupecz, thank you so much for that reporting.

As officials face this daunting task of searching for the missing, we're also hearing incredible stories of bravery as the flood first hit. Earlier today, police shared some of the heroic moments that Shimon outlined. And they credit those moments with saving many more lives. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONATHAN LAMB, COMMUNITY SERVICES OFFICER, KERRVILLE, TEXAS, POLICE DEPARTMENT: There were two people trapped in the water, clinging to a tree.

Two officers were there when the third one drove up, and one of them was wrapping a 100-foot flex line garden hose around his waist to go into the water and rescue those people. And those three officers went into the water and one of them held that hose and acted as an anchor, while those other two made their way to those two victims.

And they were able to evacuate them safely. Folks, I don't know how many lives our KPD team saved in an hour in Kerrville, but I know that this tragedy, as horrific as it is, could have been so much worse.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: Let's discuss with Brooks Holzhausen. He's a member with the volunteer group 300 Justice Road, which has been helping with search- and-rescue efforts. He's actually the father of two former camp counselors at Camp Mystic.

Brooks, thank you so much for sharing your afternoon with us.

Talk to us about what the last few days have been like, what the challenges you're facing are and some of what you have seen.

BROOKS HOLZHAUSEN, 300 JUSTICE ROAD: Well, the challenges, as you reported earlier, the conditions, weather conditions, early on, obviously we had rain, some substantial rain on -- I guess it was Sunday we got called off the river the latter part of the afternoon and that interrupted our search. And we had a bunch of men out there.

Everybody was safe, but the momentum that was created that that interrupted was kind of a downside, I guess, for our morale, because we wanted to fight through. We were fresh at that point. Now, moving on several days later, morale, I guess, is still high. We're doing the best we can to keep that up.

The -- every time a body is recovered, it -- as odd as it sounds, it boosts morale, because we're able to reunite families with their loved ones and be able to give them some closure.

SANCHEZ: Yes, at the very least, it gives them that moment of recognition and answer to their questions regarding where their loved ones might be.

I also wonder, Brooks, when you hear that some 160-plus people are still unaccounted for, what goes into finding those folks, because it is an expansive operation. How long do you think this could go?

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HOLZHAUSEN: It's really hard for me to speak to that because the expanse is -- the magnitude is just -- it's unbelievable.

So we look section by section or quadrants by -- and more, certainly, resources are increasing by the day, and there's a large number of them, whether it be personnel, boots on the ground, excavators, skid- steers, heavy equipment, so to speak, to help us identify -- and certainly cadaver dogs, help us identify where to look potentially.

And now we have heavier equipment to move those trees, some that are six, eight foot, guessing, in diameter, off the piles, debris piles, and allows us to get in there with chain saws and slowly pick our way through. And in our mind and our team's mind is -- time is of the essence on this.

The sooner we can get through those things, find the loved ones of these Americans that are sitting in -- potentially in those piles, the sooner those families can get to the next chapter of the challenges that they face. So, that drives us right now. How long that's going to take, I don't

know, but it certainly increases our level of intensity to get through them for those families.

SANCHEZ: Yes, no doubt.

I also wanted to ask you about your daughters having been former counselors at Camp Mystic. I wonder how they're doing, how they're reacting to the staggering loss there.

HOLZHAUSEN: Well, of course, they're in shock. That's a big place in their heart and growing up.

I'm sorry. It kills me every time on this when I talk about it. They had a lot of friends there, counselors that are there, that were campers, I guess, when they were counselors a couple years ago, two, three years ago. But -- so they have questions of, where does Mystic go from here?

You know, they certainly -- that's come up. And having -- can the camp -- can the camp, can Camp Mystic or any of the camps down there move forward? Hopefully, that's the case. That's their hope, their wish, because it is a special place to them.

SANCHEZ: Yes, as we have learned it, it means so much to so many people.

It also means a lot that folks like you are out there helping. I know that you recently had an Achilles issue and were undergoing treatment. You're not even fully healed, but I know that you are lending a helping hand to folks who need it most. So we appreciate what you're doing.

HOLZHAUSEN: Yes. Sure.

SANCHEZ: Brooks Holzhausen, thanks so much for being with us.

HOLZHAUSEN: Thank you, sir.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

We're also actually following another deadly flooding situation in New Mexico. We have learned at least three people were killed, including two children, after flash flooding swept through the village of Ruidoso on Tuesday. You can see here an entire house being swept away by powerful floodwaters.

The nearby Rio Ruidoso shattered records, rising more than 20 feet in just 30 minutes. This village, sadly, is no stranger to natural disasters. Last summer, it was ravaged by wildfires, making this area much more susceptible to flash flooding.

Let's go to CNN meteorologist Derek Van Dam, who joins us from the Weather Center in Atlanta.

Derek, this area was under a flash flood warning. How much rain did it get? How quickly did it come down?

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, it was under a flash flood warning for nearly -- or, rather, a watch for about 15 hours ahead of this tragedy that unfolded here in Rio Ruidoso, New Mexico.

And I want to show you the moment that this wall of water that picked up just so much debris from the burn scars around the recent wildfires that impacted Lincoln County in 2024. Look at the logs, full trees just jetting out the sides of the banks. And then you can see how it starts to pile up against a bridge here in the distance.

Just incredible to see the amount of force and a power behind what is truly an example of flash flooding, which we have had too many examples of, if you ask me. Now, when we talk about the burn scars, what's happening here is that we have the fires, which occurred late last year. And then what creates along the surface of the ground is known as an impermeable surface.

So, the water, the heavy rain that fell from the sky simply did not soak into the ground like it normally would. So it allows for that water to just simply run off. It creates and carries everything along the valleys and the topography below. And it brings it along with it. It can include cars. It can include houses. It can include trees. We saw that.

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Here's the spike in the Rio Ruidoso River when it crested to its record level. Guess what? We have flood watches in place once again this evening for the same location. So, heads-up, another two to three inches possible.

Now I head to the East Coast, because we got a completely different set of circumstances, but the outcome the same, flash flooding potential here along the mid-Atlantic. This has now just been expanded new to CNN. This includes D.C., as well as Baltimore and Philadelphia, millions under the threat of flood and severe weather, a completely different type of impermeable surface here.

The I-95 Corridor, of course, heavily paved over, lots of concrete, not a porous surface. So any of these thunderstorms that form over the region could produce two--to-three-inch rainfall rates per hour. And that will cause its own flash flooding concerns -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Important to keep an eye on that. Derek Van Dam, thank you so much.

There are a lot of folks in need here in Central Texas, and you may be able to help them. For more information about how you can help Texas flood victims, go to CNN.com/Impact. You can also text flood to 707070. We have a number of organizations that have been vetted there that would allow you to contribute whatever you can and make sure that it gets to where it needs to go.

As we head to break, we want to share some of the stories behind these victims, each one with a name and a family now in mourning. We have learned about Mollie Schaffer, who was with her husband, Randy, at the River Inn in Hunt, Texas, when the flood started and they were asked to evacuate.

Randy says that his wife tried to drive their vehicle away, but the water started coming up all the way to the windows. She urged him to get out of the car. And after he was able to climb out and grab onto a pole, he turned around and realized that their car had been swept into the river.

In a Facebook post, Randy says that: "Mollie died in a manner consistent with how she lived, selflessly taking care of someone else before she took care of herself. She saved my life. It wasn't my day to die. I wish that it hadn't been hers."

Mollie's body was discovered on Sunday.

Stay with CNN. We will be right back.

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WHITFIELD: Today, new video shows firefighters in Ukraine working to put out the flames after Russia launched its largest drone attack since the beginning of its invasion. Ukraine's military says Russia unleashed more than 700 drones and more than a dozen missiles overnight.

Ukraine says the attack was largely repelled, but at least one person was killed and another was injured. The barrage came just hours after President Trump criticized Vladimir Putin for not committing to a plan to make a peace deal. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We get a lot of bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED) thrown at us by Putin, you want to know the truth. He's very nice all the time, but it turns out to be meaningless.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: During yesterday's Cabinet meeting, President Trump also pledged more military support for Kyiv. That is a notable change.

Last week, his administration paused the delivery of some weapons to Ukraine. And new CNN reporting reveals it was Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth who authorized the pause without informing the White House.

CNN's Natasha Bertrand is joining us right now.

So what are you learning, Natasha?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fredricka.

So, this all stemmed from a request, we're told, by President Trump late last month when he was traveling with Secretary Hegseth to NATO to essentially give him an assessment of what U.S. weapons stockpiles looked like around the world, especially because there was essentially a war between Iran and Israel happening and U.S. troops in the Middle East were very much caught in the crossfire in that.

So he wanted to know, do they have what they need, particularly when it comes to Patriot interceptor missiles, which, of course, the Ukrainians are also in dire need of?

And so what Hegseth did, we're told, is he essentially tasked that downward to his undersecretary of defense for policy, Elbridge Colby, who recommended ultimately, upon doing this review of U.S. weapons stockpiles globally, that the weapon shipment that was en route to Ukraine and that notably had been approved already by the previous administration should be paused while this review is under way.

And we should note this also aligns very much with Colby's broader world view, which is that the U.S. should be maintaining its weapons stockpiles more for a potential conflict in the Indo-Pacific, rather than sending them all to Europe. And Secretary Hegseth ultimately signed off on that decision from Colby.

But there seems to have been a major communications breakdown here, we're told, because Hegseth did not inform the White House, according to all of our sources. And that includes President Trump. It includes the secretary of state and national security adviser, Marco Rubio. It also includes the U.S. special envoy to Ukraine, Keith Kellogg.

None of them knew that this pause was in place until after press reports began circulating. And so, upon learning about this, we're told President Trump asked Secretary Hegseth to restart at least part of that shipment, particularly some of those Patriot interceptor missiles, which are so key for Ukrainian air defense systems, which protect civilians from these kinds of massive Russian missile and drone barrages that you see that are really only ramping up.

And, of course, we saw just yesterday that President Trump reiterated that Ukraine is going to get the defensive weapons that it needs, really reversing the decision that Secretary Hegseth had effectively made just last week, Fredricka.

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WHITFIELD: All right, Natasha Bertrand, thank you so much.

All right, joining us right now to discuss is retired U.S. Army Brigadier General Steve Anderson.

General, great to see you.

So, munitions, including interceptor missiles for Patriot air defense systems, as Natasha just explained, which have been critical to protecting Ukrainian civilians from relentless missile and drone attacks by Russia, were paused, now resumed. How unusual is it for the secretary of defense to unilaterally withhold or pause munitions like these? BRIG. GEN. STEVE ANDERSON (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Well, thank you,

Fredricka.

And, yes, it's very unusual. And, in fact, I believe the secretary of defense should submit his resignation, because for not -- for him not to inform the national security adviser, the president, General Keith Kellogg, special envoy to Ukraine, I mean, to not let any of these people know that he was making a major decision, a unilateral decision, to suspend military aid to country like Ukraine that absolutely needs it, to me, it just shows the incredible dysfunction and the fact of the matter that Pete Hegseth is totally unqualified for this job.

He is not capable of running the largest organization in the world, and he should be fired. And for us to continue to make excuses for this guy, and the president should not allow him to stay in office any longer. He needs to fire him immediately.

WHITFIELD: Do you think when the president yesterday, when asked by Kaitlan Collins about who made that decision, and he kind of turned it by saying, you tell me, do you think that is kind of a prelude to possibly firing him?

ANDERSON: Perhaps it is, but I mean, I think it was very significant. When Kaitlan asked that question, the man that could answer that question was sitting next to the president.

And he sat there with his hands folded neatly in front of him and said nothing. I mean, that shows to me the cowardice and the fact that this man was picked solely on the basis of his loyalty to President Trump. Anybody, any secretary of defense in the past would have said, hey, wait a minute, I made the decision, Mr. President, and this is why I did it.

But the fact that he stayed silent to me is very telling, and to me further evidence that he needs to go.

WHITFIELD: So a lot is strange here. I think everybody agrees on that. This is according to sources that Hegseth did not tell the White House about the pause.

Still, what kind of tracking might be done now to investigate or substantiate any directive or communication that may have involved the defense secretary before withholding any weapons?

ANDERSON: Well, I mean, sure, they probably could do an investigation, but I think we already know all the facts.

I mean, the fact of the matter is, the president didn't know. He stated as such to Kaitlan Collins in the entire world in that Cabinet meeting yesterday. And the fact that he didn't know was a responsibility to secretary of defense. Secretary of defense should have made that -- should have made that his boss knew.

I mean, there's a chain of command. Everybody knows it. Pete Hegseth knows it. The president is in charge. He should be fired because he didn't use the chain of command.

WHITFIELD: What do you believe this might be doing? How is it rattling now the chain of command?

ANDERSON: Well, it's really sad to me that we have a guy, like I say, that, I think, believe he's totally incompetent.

I think that the morale within the Department of Defense is at an all- time low. Admittedly, working for someone like Donald Trump, who seems to change his mind on major matters of national security every week, is difficult, but all the more reason to communicate what you're doing to your boss.

But, I mean, this whole idea of America first and all this and not supporting the Ukrainians, to me, is absolutely ludicrous. These people are fighting for us. They -- supporting Ukraine is an America first policy because Russia poses a existential threat to the United States. And we need to realize this...

WHITFIELD: All right.

ANDERSON: ... that they are fighting not for themselves. They're fighting for everybody. And, fortunately, our allies in NATO understand that. And, hopefully, if there's a void that continues, they will step up, like the Germans and the Brits have already offered to do.

WHITFIELD: Brigadier General Steve Anderson, thank you so much.

I want you to continue to listen, though, just in case there's something. I may want to follow up with you, because, just moments ago, we did receive this from the White House, where President Trump is taking a variety of questions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Thank you, President Trump.

James Comey and John Brennan now under criminal investigation related to the Trump-Russia probe. Do you want to see these two guys behind bars?

TRUMP: Well, I know nothing about it, other than what I read today, but I will tell you, I think they're very dishonest people. I think they're crooked as hell. And maybe they have to pay a price for that. I believe they are truly bad people and dishonest people.