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HHS Carries out Mass Firings; Trump's Benefit from Conspiracy Theorists; Sen Dick Durbin (D-IL) is Interviewed about Epstein, Bove and Public Broadcasting; U.S. Inflation Rebounded in June; Deadly Fire at Assisted Living Facility. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired July 15, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:30:53]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: New this morning, thousands of people working across U.S. federal health agencies are waking up without a job as the Department of Health and Human Services is moving forward with mass firings. The Trump administration made the move really less than a week after the Supreme Court cited -- the Supreme Court gave them the green light to do so. A letter to employees now read in part, here's the quote, "you are hereby notified that you are officially separated from HHS at the close of business on July 14th. Thank you for your service to the American people."

CNN's Meg Tirrell tracking this, and has been for -- for quite some time with the very latest now.

Meg, what is the latest here?

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, I mean these are employees who were told April 1st, for most of them, that they were going to lose their jobs. This was part of a huge reorganization of the Department of Health and Human Services that the department said encompassed 10,000 employees who were going to be laid off. And that was on top of another 10,000 they said had already left voluntarily or were leaving voluntarily, bringing the size of HHS down from about 82,000 to 62,000.

Now, this included about 3,500 employees from the Food and Drug Administration, 2,400 from the CDC, 1,200 from the National Institutes of Health, and 300 from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. But there were court challenges to these layoffs, and they were paused as that played out.

And as you mentioned, there was a Supreme Court decision last week. HHS took that as the signal now to move forward with this. And they sent out that email late in the afternoon yesterday saying by close of business that day these folks no longer worked at HHS.

BOLDUAN: So, some of the employees that were in limbo are still in limbo, though, right, Meg, as there's a separate court challenge that's playing out? TIRRELL: Yes, there is another court case called New York versus Kennedy. This is a court challenge that was brought by state attorneys general. And that is still playing out. And under that, the Department of Health and Human Services says that there are some units across federal health agencies that are not being carried out with the separation. So, that includes six units at the CDC, including units focused on HIV prevention, smoking, the Division of Reproductive Health, the NIOSH, or the -- institute focused on occupational safety and health, and other ones at FDA, that's the Center for Tobacco Products, includes the office of Head Start and a Division of Data and Technical Analysis.

And this really is sort of in court limbo right now. Those folks are not being separated. But it kind of shows you the sort of chaos that we're seeing across this plan to reorganize HHS. We also learned over the past few months, some people have been rehired. Their firings were rescinded, and they were not affected by these layoffs. And so this continues to play out. And we don't expect this to be the end of the story.

BOLDUAN: And more to come. My goodness.

Meg, thank you so much.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, some of MAGA media's conspiracy theories on Jeffrey Epstein helped fuel President Trump's popularity, sweeping him into office. Now, the president facing backlash over those Epstein files. Harry Enten runs the numbers on how important this is for Trump and his allies.

And, this morning, we're hearing from survivors of that deadly assisted living home in Massachusetts, how they managed to get to safety in that fire.

Those stories, and more, ahead.

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[08:38:26]

SIDNER: For years, President Donald Trump has drawn huge support from conspiracy theory believers, including QAnon. That group, of course, pushing fabricated claims that global elites run child sex rings, among other things, like Hollywood elites drink the blood of stolen children. Now, just days after the Trump administration released a memo saying Jeffrey Epstein did, in fact, take his own life, and there is no so-called client list of powerful people tied to sex trafficking, many of those same followers just refusing to believe that. They are feeling betrayed. And that is causing a big war in the MAGA base.

CNN chief data analyst Harry Enten is here.

How much of Trump's 2020 support depended on conspiracy theory, believing folk who came to his aid? They were definitely on his side, that was for sure.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Yes. Yes. Trump swam in the conspiracy theorist waters for years, and now, finally, the sharks in those waters are coming to try and get him.

What are we talking about here? Well, let's talk about 2024, Harris versus Trump margin, right? QAnon believers. Look at this margin that Donald Trump built up among QAnon believers. He won them by 61 points. Or it was at least leading amongst them by 61 points back during the 2024 campaign.

Look at those who reject or doubt QAnon. Harris was actually leading amongst them by 16 points during the 2024 campaign. Donald Trump would not have won the presidency in 2024 if it were not for the backing of QAnon believers. That is a bottom line. That is a true statement. That is in the polling data.

SIDNER: I'm curious to what you saw in the primary and how they played a role in that as well.

[08:40:01]

ENTEN: Yes. OK. So, you know, we talk about QAnon. But it's not just QAnon, a conspiracy theory in which Donald Trump has swum in those waters. How about the fact that Joe Biden didn't win the 2020 election legitimately? I mean, that is a conspiracy theory that Donald Trump has pushed for years. And, of course, Joe Biden won that election legitimately.

Choice for the 2024 GOP nominee. If the -- Trump, OK. By belief that Biden's 2020 win was legit. Look at this. Donald Trump was only winning 16 percent of those voters, those Republican primary voters who thought that Biden's win was legit.

How about wasn't legit? This is why Donald Trump won the 2024 primary. It was because he won the great lion's share of those Republican primary voters who believed that Joe Biden did not win the 2024 election legitimately. So, it wasn't just in the general election where Donald Trump benefited from conspiracy believers, it was the foundation of his campaign. The reason he was able to rise up from the dead back after 2020 and 2021, and be able to overcome January 6th. It was because he was able to convince his supporters, within the Republican primary, and within the Republican Party that Joe Biden's win back in 2020 was not legitimate.

SIDNER: All right, so let's go all the way back to 2016. What role did conspiracy theorists play there in his primary base?

ENTEN: Yes, I mean, look, why did -- what was one of the big foundational beliefs of how Donald Trump rose up within the Republican ranks? It was pushing the conspiracy theory that Barack Obama was not born in the United States of America. So, choice for 2016 GOP nominee by belief that Obama was born in the U.S. Look, Donald Trump, back in September of 2015, was only pulling 27 percent of that vote. But look at this. If you believed that Barack Obama was foreign born, he was getting 51 percent of that vote. So, the bottom line is, Donald Trump, from the very beginning, has

been pushing conspiracy theories over and over and over again, and he has benefited from them historically. And now, finally, it's coming back to actually bite him.

SIDNER: The question is, will it fully bite him? Sometimes these things just sort of peter off. So, we will see. I know you'll be watching.

ENTEN: We'll be watching.

SIDNER: All right, Harry Enten, thank you so much.

ENTEN: Thank you.

SIDNER: Appreciate it.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: And while CNN is reporting that President Trump is hoping that this uproar will die down, Democrats are leaning in. Some seeing -- seeming eager to expose these cracks that we're talking about here within Trump's MAGA base over the so-called Jeffrey Epstein files. House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries suggested yesterday that he may now support congressional action to force the release of documents related to Epstein, saying that the American people deserve -- deserve to know the truth.

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REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Option one, they lied for years. Option two, they're engaging in a coverup. At this point it seems reasonable that it can only be one of the two things. And so it's Congress' responsibility, in a bipartisan way, to ask the questions and try to get answers on behalf of the American people.

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BOLDUAN: Joining us right now is Democratic Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois. He is the top Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Senator, do you agree with Hakeem Jeffries on this? Do you now want to -- to see the files released?

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): Absolutely. Leader Jeffries is right, either they misled the American people with this conspiracy theory for years, or they're covering it up now. I joined with Senator Chris Van Hollen from Maryland during the appropriations process last week. We offered an amendment together. And the amendment said that they should preserve the evidence of the Epstein investigation and release it to the American people. It passed by a voice vote. The Republicans didn't want a record vote on the issue. But it really gets to the bottom line, let's let the American people see the truth.

BOLDUAN: A question, because I was looking back and saw that when you were chairman of the committee, there was some back and forth with Republicans on the committee over pieces of the Jeffrey Epstein file. Marsha Blackburn talking a lot about flight logs that she said she had requested that you had not allowed her -- really allowed to see go forward.

I guess my question is, it did not seem when you were -- when you were chairman, that you were pushing, as I hear you now say, then for the release of documents related to Jeffrey Epstein. Did something change for you?

DURBIN: No, nothing changed. I said to Senator Blackburn, I'll be happy to subpoena these documents. Give me a written list of what you're searching for and I'll -- I'll proceed and go forward. She never came up with that list because when you're in the midst of a conspiracy theory, it's a lot easier to make charges than to back them up with anything specific.

I've never been reluctant. The argument that Biden was concealing something during those four years was just plain wrong and false. Now we have these statements from Kash Patel and from Pam Bondi that they had some evidence on their desk waiting and so forth. Release it. Let's get to the bottom line. Don't be afraid to tell the American people the truth.

BOLDUAN: So, what I -- is what I'm hearing from you is -- is you would just like to call their bluff because you don't think there is anything there?

[08:45:04]

DURBIN: That's exactly right. Either they have something, and the American people should see it, or they have nothing, and they've got to face that embarrassment.

BOLDUAN: Judiciary, obviously, has oversight over the FBI. You know all of this is going on with the deputy director of the FBI, that he didn't show up to work. There's questions of if -- if he's going to stay in the job. He's largely excommunicated himself. Is there a role for the Congress here when it comes to Dan Bongino?

DURBIN: Well, whatever role we had has been eclipsed by the fact that there's a Republican majority that doesn't want to ask the hard questions. They put Mr. Bongino in -- in this role. He has totally political background, continues to. There's never been anyone in this position in the history with that background that seemed to be OK with the Trump people for long period of time. But now with this particular controversy, Mr. Bongino has become an irritant to the Trump administration.

BOLDUAN: You recently released what appears to be evidence backing up whistleblower claims against top justice official Emil Bove. That claim being that he directed career justice attorneys to ignore court orders related to deportations. But now, this morning, CNN's reporting more than 75 former federal and state judges have come out against his nomination to prestigious appeals court judgeship. And your committee is voting on his nomination on Thursday. Do you think any of this that has come up will actually put his -- is actually, will actually put his nomination in jeopardy?

DURBIN: I don't think we should move forward with this vote until we've given the whistleblower an opportunity, under oath before the committee, to tell us what happened. What we have here, Mr. Bove, was in a position where he was encouraging members of the Department of Justice to mislead the judge on the case. That is just unacceptable, unprofessional conduct. This gentleman is prepared to go under oath and to speak to the committee about what he saw and what Mr. Bove did. We should get that done before there's any vote in the committee on his nomination.

BOLDUAN: Right now it is still set for this Thursday. We will see if anything changes.

Also this week, Congress is debating making DOGE cuts law, essentially. Spending cuts targeting foreign aid and public broadcasting. Money that's already been approved by Congress, but that the administration wants to claw back. A critical Republican in this conversation, Appropriations Chair Susan Collins, is balking at the moment at some of the cuts, like to public broadcasting. And that is something that you are speaking out against as well. What do you fear these cuts will do?

DURBIN: Well, I can tell -- just tell you what the bottom line is. I think the American people are entitled to more information, not less. The American people are entitled to make their own choices as to their source of information, and not fewer choices. And that's what this issue is all about.

I am happy that Senator Collins has raised questions. Others have done it privately. If a few Republicans speak up against this rescission package, we can save public broadcasting.

BOLDUAN: We will see.

Senator Dick Durbin, thank you for coming in. Appreciate your time.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we do have some breaking news. Some brand-new numbers on inflation, up both month to month and year to year.

Let's get right to CNN's Zain Asher.

Zain, what are you seeing here and what role do tariffs play in this?

ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR AND BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: So, these are interesting numbers, right, because this is pretty much exactly in line with expectations. We were expecting 0.3 percent month over month. Guess what we got? Exactly 0.3 percent.

What I think is interesting is that we are seeing a slight increase in terms of rising prices from these tariffs. This is actually, by the way, a five-month high. But it's not the sort of catastrophe that people had been anticipating.

Fed Chair Jerome Powell had said a number of times that the June CPI data was going to be critical. The summer inflation data is going to be critical in terms of figuring out what the Fed does as it pertains to monetary policy in this country.

So, the question is, what do they do with a number like this? It's a slight increase, but it's not dramatic. Remember, June is the first full month after a lot of the sweeping tariffs came into effect. Tariffs against Canada, tariffs against Mexico, the EU, steel, aluminum, a number of consumer imports. And so, this is why the Fed is watching this data very, very closely.

What I think is interesting is, what it tells us is that perhaps businesses are absorbing some of these costs, so they're not necessarily passing them on to consumers just yet. Also the issue of frontloading. Remember we talked about frontloading along with the retail sales data. This idea that when people knew that the April 2nd liberation day was about to come online, that they stocked up, not -- not just consumers, by the way, John, businesses as well, stocked up on goods back then. They're not necessarily needing to buy those goods again just yet.

And I think the third thing is, remember, we've seen so many stops and starts as it pertains to these trade war. Ninety day pauses on certain tariffs. The worst of the tariffs only came into effect very briefly, and then they were paused.

So, remember that before this data point, a lot of people were anticipating that there would be a September rate cut. I think the jury is still out as it pertains to what the Fed does with this number. Remember, it's just one data point.

[08:50:01]

A slight increase. And there are more tariffs that are about to set into effect. You know, that the August 1st deadline.

BERMAN: We have new deadlines that --

ASHER: New deadline. It's so hard to keep track.

BERMAN: For now.

ASHER: Yes. Exactly.

BERMAN: What do the markets think about all this so far?

ASHER: Let's take a look and see where futures are. I think that -- I mean, look at it, it's just pretty much flat. I mean what does the markets do with a number like this? I think that what the markets really do want to see at this point in time is that of course they do want some kind of rate cut. Again, with this particular piece of data, it's still too early to tell what exactly the Fed's going to do come September.

But I do think that Donald Trump does feel emboldened to continue this trade war, especially when you think about the markets are at record highs. And also, we're not necessarily seeing the effect of this trade war in the hard data just yet.

BERMAN: All right, Zain Asher, thank you very much for this. Markets open in a little bit. We'll see where they go after that bell rings.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: An investigation is underway this morning after that fire that broke out at an assisted living facility in Massachusetts. Nine elderly residents were killed. We have more on what officials are saying about it this morning.

And terrifying video of a paraglider crashing into high voltage power lines. How firefighters were able to save his life.

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[08:55:39]

SIDNER: This morning, authorities are saying the North Rim of the Grand Canyon will remain closed for the rest of the 2025 season after the area was devastated by a raging wildfire. They named it the Dragon Bravo Fire. It has destroyed an historic lodge and dozens of other structures on that North Rim. Inner canyon trails and campgrounds will also remain closed until further notice.

Now to a terrifying moment caught on camera in North Dakota. A paraglider was flying over a boat ramp when he crashed into high voltage power lines and fell there into the river. Firefighters managed to get to him in time, rescued him by boat. Officials believe the sun was just in his eyes. He just didn't see those power lines and he ended up there in the water. Fortunately, though, he was not hurt.

Also, we're just learning of a nationwide recall is underway now for Yocrunch yogurt products due to a potential choking hazard. The company says small, sharp pieces of plastic may be present in the package dome toppers. Not the yogurt itself, necessarily. The recall covers all flavors with expiration dates from early July to early September. Consumers are urged not to eat the products and to contact Yocrunch for a refund.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

An unfathomable tragedy. That is how officials are describing the fire at a Massachusetts assisted living facility. Nine elderly residents were killed in this fire. The cause, not yet determined. The district attorney there, though, says so far it does not appear suspicious.

CNN's Jason Carroll has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Fall River firefighters arriving at the facility Sunday night were met with screams of panicked elderly residents calling out for help. ALBERT ALMANZA, RESCUED FROM GABRIEL HOUSE FIRE: All the smoke from

the hall went right in my face. And all that I could do was just stand there and choke. And I thought it was going to be the end of everything.

CARROLL (voice over): Albert Almanza lives at Gabriel House Assisted Living Care. He says he was almost overcome by smoke until a firefighter found him.

ALMANZA: He says to me, walk this way. And I couldn't even see the door. And he says, grab a hold of my hand. I couldn't even see that. So, he grabbed my arm and him and another officer helped me down the stairs.

CARROLL (voice over): Seventy-one-year-old Lorraine Ferrara says it was about a 9:45 Sunday night when someone banged on her door on the second floor of the facility.

LORRAINE FERRARA, RESCUED FROM GABRIEL HOUSE FIRE: I got up and opened the door and the smoke just overtook me. It was so smoky. I will never forget the smell.

CARROLL (voice over): Ferrara says the smoke was so thick she couldn't make it out her front door, so she tried escaping through her bathroom.

FERRARA: I thought I was going to die there. I did. Then I opened the window. I got the window open and I started yelling, help, help, help!

CARROLL: Out of the bathroom window?

FERRARA: Out of the bathroom window. And the firemen were there. And they put the ladder up to the window.

CARROLL (voice over): The Fall River Fire Department says 70 residents were housed at the facility. Rescues made more difficult because many were immobile, needed wheelchairs, while some needing help were on oxygen tanks.

FIRE CHIEF JEFFREY BACON, FALL RIVER, MA: You know that rescue is going to be ten times harder than it would have been in a normal situation. So, it's a very difficult scene. It's a very challenging scene.

CARROLL (voice over): Investigators say it appears much of the fire was contained to the front entrance of the care facility, the same area where fire officials say the blaze may have started.

CARROLL: Was there a sprinkler system? A fire alarm system?

BACON: It was fully equipped with sprinkler and fire alarm systems per code.

CARROLL (voice over): Residents who live there now trying to come to terms with all that has happened.

FERRARA: I survived for a reason. I'm meant to do something with my life. I don't know what, but something.

CARROLL (voice over): Jason Carroll, CNN, Fall River, Massachusetts.

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BOLDUAN: Backlash from the base. New reporting this morning that President Trump is privately telling his team to let the Epstein controversy die down, but has MAGA world gotten that memo today?

[09:00:05]

And extreme weather slams the northeast.