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Waltz Facing Lawmakers for First Time Since White House Ouster; White House Eyes GOP Midterm Gains as Part of Texas Redistricting Push; Unreleased Beyonce Music Stolen from Rental Car in Atlanta; Social Media Debates Dead-Eye, Silent Response of the Gen Z Stare. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired July 15, 2025 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

SHANE HARRIS, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Yes, and we should remember too that the most sensitive information that was in there was shared by Pete Hegseth. He is the one who placed into the chat the times that certain planes would be over their targets in Yemen, the kinds of planes they were, and he talked about some of the initial battle damage assessment that officials were seeing. So there's a bit of a, you know, Mike Waltz is the guy who created the chat room, we should be clear and reportedly created other chat rooms like it for sharing information.

But I did think it was notable that he seemed to be sort of shifting over more to Hegseth on this one, and kind of, you know, he wasn't throwing him under the bus, but he is sort of more leaning on what the Secretary of Defense has said and what he did in that room.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yes, and as you mentioned, this assertion of his that Signal is authorized, still authorized, highly recommended. Do you understand it to be used as it was being used by that group of people for the kind of information they were talking about? I mean, that would undercut that assertion.

Are they still using it for that kind of thing, do you know?

HARRIS: I do not understand it to be encouraged for the way that it was being used. No. When I've talked to people from the previous administration, and in this administration as well, and how they continue to use Signal, which is a very secure app, we should say, it does secure both ends of the communication and encrypt it.

They're using it for logistical information, you know, letting people know, aids to a certain cabinet secretary, let's say, letting them know when he or she is in transit or about to be at their destination. They might be, you know, alerting people to news articles that were published. What Mike Waltz did as National Security Advisor was sharing information, operational military information, in real time.

I am not aware of any recommendation that encourages officials to do that. In point of fact, there are secure communications that officials have, many of them in their homes when they are serving at the rank of National Security Advisor or CIA Director, and those are where they're supposed to have sensitive and classified communications like this. The argument that the administration is making, oh, it was unclassified, therefore it's fine that we did this, that just does not hold water.

KEILAR: Yes, they may have like an in-home skiff. And then just quickly before I let you go, Shane, this role, UN Ambassador, of course, Waltz was ousted as National Security Advisor and sort of moved over to this as a bit of a landing pad. How much stock does Trump, does the Trump administration put in this post?

HARRIS: I don't think very much, candidly, and I think that you heard a lot of skepticism of the UN coming from Mike Waltz in his testimony and talking about making sure that money is spent and we're getting the best value. You know, this is not -- and the president does not generally believe in multilateralism and kind of international cooperation like the UN represents. So I don't think that this is a high profile position in the president's eyes.

KEILAR: Shane Harris, thank you so much for being with us.

HARRIS: Thanks.

KEILAR: Still to come, they say don't mess with Texas. Well, now the governor has a plan to redraw the state's congressional map and it could really have some big consequences and mess with that map.

[14:35:00]

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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: With the critical midterm elections set for next year, sources tell CNN that President Trump is telling Republicans in Texas he believes they can flip as many as five seats in the Lone Star state as part of a push toward redistricting.

CNN Political Director David Chalian joins us now. David, why are President Trump and his allies so keen on this?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF AND POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, they're so keen on it because Democrats are just three seats away from taking the majority in 2026. You know, it's such a narrow House majority. And so what they're looking to do is looking around and saying, what can we do to fortify our majority and make that distance that Democrats need to overtake the majority further away from them?

And one way to do that is this pure political power play. Both parties do it, by the way, but they're the ones in charge in Texas to redraw the lines and try to maximize more seats so that therefore it's a tougher goal for the Democrats to overtake the majority.

SANCHEZ: It's being met with some skepticism, though, in Austin, and they don't seem to think they can get those five seats that Trump is looking for.

CHALIAN: Five is -- you just heard him on the South Lawn when he was leaving to go to Pennsylvania. He was adamant about five out of Texas.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

CHALIAN: Then he said there were a couple other states we're looking at. Ohio Republicans are looking at doing something. I think five may be a tall order. And you are right.

Not every House Republican here in D.C. from Texas is like cheering this because what happens, Boris, when you redistrict? You look at the map and somebody says, OK, we're going to take some Republicans from this very safe Republican district and we're going to draw them, those voters, into this district that has a Democrat in it right now, make it more Republican-friendly. Well, did you just now jeopardize that other incumbent Republican who had a very safe seat is now going to have to fight harder for that district?

That's what gives some of these incumbent Republicans pause about how are you going to get five, net gain five seats out of this.

SANCHEZ: You mentioned a moment ago that both parties do this. Is there anything that Democrats in Texas can do to try to block this?

CHALIAN: Nothing, really. I mean, this is going back history. Twenty years ago, Tom DeLay was from Texas.

[14:40:00]

He was the House -- in House leadership on the Republican side. He engineered something like this. Texas Democrats fled the state to prevent Texas Republicans from having a quorum to go through with redistricting. That didn't work. They had to give that up and the numbers were not there for them. You saw Gavin Newsom send out a tweet saying, hey, two can play this game. So, you know, the president was asked about this today.

What about California? What about New York? Could they, you know, cause you pain?

He kind of dismissed that. We'll see if Democrats can find anywhere to sort of counteract this. But Greg Abbott has put this on the agenda for the special session in Texas. And the Republicans are quite serious about trying to pad their numbers.

SANCHEZ: If anything, it's a tacit admission that they view their odds at keeping both chambers in a midterm election as slim.

CHALIAN: Yes. When you've got the presidency, the House and the Senate, history tells you that the winds are likely going to be against you in that midterm election.

SANCHEZ: David Chalian, thanks so much.

CHALIAN: Sure. Yes.

SANCHEZ: Still plenty more to come this afternoon. The so-called Gen Z stare. We've been talking about this all afternoon. You may have come face to face with it. What does this expression or lack of an expression really mean? Does it exist?

We'll discuss with an expert. Don't go anywhere.

[14:15:00]

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KEILAR: What appeared to be a routine report of a car break-in turned out to be anything but for police in Atlanta. Investigators there are now trying to find whoever stole unreleased Beyonce music and concert set list from the rental car of the mega stars choreographer. Beyonce just wrapped a four night stint of her cowboy Carter concert tour in the city and listened to the choreographer's frantic 911 call to police.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEYONCE CHOREOGRAPHER 911 CALL: They have my computer and it's really, really important information in there. Like I work with someone who is like, of a high status and I really need the -- my computer and everything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN entertainment reporter Lisa Respers France is here with more. This is just a wild story here, Lisa. What are you learning about it?

LISA RESPERS FRANCE, CNN ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: Yes, what we're learning is that police have a unnamed suspect. They have a warrant out for an unnamed suspect. We know that her choreographer, Christopher Grant, he and a dancer had stopped to get something to eat.

He told police and they left their Jeep. And when they returned, someone had broken in and stolen a variety of things. But the thing that is of most interest to people are the hard drives that have unreleased Beyonce music.

And this is so disappointing, Brianna, especially because I was there Sunday night at Beyonce's concert where she brought Jay-Z out and everybody was just talking about how much Beyonce clearly loves Atlanta because only Paris got Jay-Z and we got Jay-Z. So people were just were so super excited. And then to have this information come out, the fact that there was a theft and the Beehive, as her fan base is known, her hardcore fan base, they're super upset because they're worried that that music may be the act three album that everyone is so looking forward to, which many people believe might be a rock album.

Beyonce has not confirmed what it's going to be, but we do know from Renaissance and from her Cowboy Carter album that she is trying to show, you know, the importance of African American culture in different genres. And so the Beehive is just really upset. Her fans do not want that music to be leaked.

And so they're hoping that a suspect will be arrested soon and that everything that was lost is recovered -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, because we want to be surprised by Beyonce. That's how we want it to go. Lisa Respers France, thank you so much. We know that you'll continue to follow this.

It is the latest crack in the generational divide. TikTok peppered with millennials complaining of what they call the Gen Z stare. That is the so-called dead eye, vacant look that people get from teens and young adults, which is the subject of all of these headlines here. TikTok has plenty firsthand accounts of what that Gen Z stare looks like.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm a millennial who received the Gen Z stare recently, and this is how that interaction went.

Mom, thank you so much for agreeing to teach my daughter golf. She is so excited.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would you want to do today? Are you slow?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can I help you find anything or are you just looking around?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Looking.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, well, let me know if you need help with anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: The Gen Z stare is apparently having an impact at work. Fortune reports that the stare has led to misunderstandings, perceived rudeness, and in some cases, customer dissatisfaction.

Let's talk about the Gen Z stare with clinical psychologist Lisa Strohman. She co-wrote the book "Digital Distress Growing Up Online". Lisa, thanks so much for joining us this afternoon.

There's some debate about whether or not the Gen Z stare is real because you don't necessarily have to be in Gen Z to give somebody that kind of awkward stare and maybe you look over to the side, you know.

Like is it a Gen Z stare? Is it a real thing? Does it belong to Gen Z?

LISA STROHMAN, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST AND CO-AUTHOR, DIGITAL DISTRESS, GROWING UP ONLINE: Thanks for having me, Boris and Brianna. It isn't just Gen Z, but unfortunately, timing-wise, that generation is the one that's manifesting this as, to me, a bigger symptom of what they grew up with. That's really what digital distress was about.

[14:50:00]

It's like this is the first generation that has never not known a screen being their primary mode of information. And so that part of us that missed out on educating them and training them to understand how to have these in-person communications is now basically on the forefront and we're dealing with this as a society now.

KEILAR: Should we be so surprised? I mean, talk to us a little bit about if you spend so much time, right, where you're on a screen, you don't necessarily have that input coming back at you, what that ends up doing?

STROHMAN: Yes, I mean, I look at this generation and the people that are suffering from this issue, is it's kind of that they were groomed as an individual to learn how to operate in this technological world, but they grew up with screenshots being taken and things going viral or being judged for something that they said. So it is safer for them to not respond at these times. And so in-person is almost like an aggressive part of their life.

And so if somebody is asking them a question, they're really having, I think, trouble. And so to me, it's more indicative of somebody having more anxiety or feeling more pressured. And we really have missed the mark on what this might mean deeper.

And what we need to do as a society to manage the communication and train and really invest in how do we help them out of it versus coming around and putting, you know, a viral push that they're all kind of lame and they don't know how to respond. It really is like, to me, we should be more empathetic and we should really look at how do we go and not misinterpret that and how do we manage it better and do things that will help them come out of it.

SANCHEZ: I think some Gen Z-ers, at least from what I've seen online and clips that have gone viral, might not take kindly to what you're suggesting that it's anxiety because some of them argue that it's more an inclination toward authenticity and that they're trying to communicate something through that silence. I wonder what you make of that argument.

STROHMAN: That's a great point, Boris, and I'm sure that there's always a multitude of people that agree or don't agree. I've been in this for over two decades talking about the intersection of psychology and technology. So that's not news to me that somebody might not agree with my take on it.

Again, as a clinical psychologist and somebody in the space, I look at it and say, we are having a clash of these two different kind of generations and communication strategies. And they might want to say, you know, my silence is imperative and important to me, and I want you to respect that.

But when you're going in, it's almost like thinking through, am I going into a different country that speaks a different language? And because I speak English, they need to respect that and only address me in English. And so we can't just sit back and say, this is the way that my generation is dealing with it, and you just have to deal. The other generation doesn't speak in those terms. And so we have to look at that as maybe as a language barrier or communication barrier and come together and talk through it, not just like point fingers and say that this is the way that we're going (INAUDIBLE) the workforce isn't going to tolerate that, and the communities and the societies that need us to communicate need to come together and figure it out.

KEILAR: Yes, and then I do want to note one Gen Z member -- let's just take a look at this, explaining why she gave the stare, the quote- unquote stare, to a customer who ordered no cheese for her burger and then demanded pepper jack. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The manager pulls me to the side and said, oh, she was asking for fried jalapenos on her burger. I'm sorry. Is there -- is there a world that I'm not from where pepper jack is fried jalapenos?

I've had a person get mad at me because their iced tea was too cold. I really don't know what these people want from me. Of course, I'm going to just start staring at you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: OK. So, I mean, that's one person, right? That's one person saying this. And sometimes I think it's like, oh, that's the inside voice. It becomes the outside voice or the outside stare. Knowing that, if you are getting the stare, what might be the appropriate response in what is normally such a short interaction, like something in retail or, you know, a restaurant?

STROHMAN: Yes, that's funny to me because I can understand, like, if it's not making sense, I can understand somebody not knowing how to respond in that situation, which is different mostly from when I'm hearing about this Gen Z stare and the things that are happening. But I would say in that short period of time, if somebody is just staring at you to say, I'm sorry, do you want me to repeat that or (INAUDIBLE). I think opening up that communication and addressing the stare or addressing the silence could be helpful in that scenario.

And to me, my clinical expertise always is have empathetic curiosity in the exchanges and communications you have with others. If we are empathetic and curious about why somebody is doing something else, always is have empathetic curiosity in the exchanges and communications you have with others. If we are empathetic and curious about why somebody is doing something else, we don't have hostility, we don't have frustration, we don't have anger come into those conversations.

So empathetic curiosity both ways can be really important in those exchanges.

KEILAR: Yes, curious before furious. I annoy everyone by saying that, but I believe in it. OK. All right, guys --

STROHMAN: I love that.

KEILAR: -- Lisa, too. Let's give your stare. What's your Gen Z stare?

Very good. Lisa nailed it, of course, with everything. Lisa Stroman, great to have you. Thank you so much for being with us.

STROHMAN: Nice talking to you. Thank you so much.

KEILAR: Still to come as the Trump administration is trying to silence this outcry over the Jeffrey Epstein investigation and dissatisfaction with the information that's been put out about it. We'll look at why Americans are so interested in the case.

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