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Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-MI) On Dems Move To Exploit Growing GOP Divide Over Epstein Case; Russia Launches Hundreds Of Drones On Key Regions Of Ukraine; More Witnesses Expected To Testify In Dentist's Murder Trial. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired July 16, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning Democrats are looking to capitalize on the growing rift in President Trump's base over his administration's handling of the Epstein files. House Democrats tried to force a vote calling on Attorney General Pam Bondi to publish all documents related to the case. That vote failed along party lines, but it seems they are not done.

Let's get right to CNN's Arlette Saenz with the latest on this. Good morning, Arlette.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

Well, Democrats are trying to keep up the drumbeat on the calls to release the full Epstein files. They are calling for hearings, they are trying to force votes on the House floor and even starting to bring up Epstein on the campaign trail.

Now, there was a time when some Democrats had decried conspiracy theories relating to the Epstein case. But now Democrats are really leaning into these calls for the Trump administration to release the files. They are pushing for transparency and arguing that Trump is trying to protect himself in this moment. They are also trying to attempt to drive a further wedge in a Republican Party that has been fighting over this issue.

Now, there have been rank-and-file Dems but also party leaders calling for more transparency. House minority leader Hakeem Jeffries said the American people deserve to know the full truth about the Epstein case. There have been various amendments introduced in both the House and the Senate.

Democrat Congressman Ro Khanna even teamed up with GOP Congressman Thomas Massie, constant thorn in Trump's side, to release a bipartisan bill calling for release of the Epstein files.

And here is a bit of the sampling of how Democratic lawmakers are making their arguments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): It's not a question just of Epstein; it's a question of trust in our democracy.

REP. MARC VEASEY (D-TX): We demand the immediate release of the Epstein files. No more games. No more lies. No more protection for predators hiding behind the rich and powerful.

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): We need to get to the bottom of this, and we need to make sure that the attorney general releases all the documents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now this does appear to be an issue that is playing with the Democratic base. New CNN polling just after all of this Epstein issues arose found that more Democrats are dissatisfied with the amount of information that's been released than Republicans. Fifty-six percent of Democrats are dissatisfied. Forty percent of Republicans are dissatisfied.

And we are already starting to see this pop up on the campaign trail. Senator John Ossoff, a vulnerable incumbent down in Georgia -- he started talking about Epstein over the weekend at a campaign rally.

We have seen the House majority PAC -- a super PAC trying to elect more Democrats to the House -- already say they're going to target vulnerable Republicans that they think are complicit with the Trump administration's efforts to bury the Epstein case.

But I think a big question going forward is what is the staying power of this Democratic messaging push? We have seen Democrats try to throw a lot of different lines of attack towards President Trump since he entered office in January. So we will see whether this will actually last heading into the 2026 midterms. But for now Democrats are really trying to keep this issue in the spotlight.

BERMAN: It's a good question how long it will last. Sometimes it's the president's own comments that push it forward, at least for another day.

Arlette Saenz in Washington this morning. Thanks so much -- Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Joining me now is one of those Democrats calling for the release of the Epstein files, Congresswoman Debbie Dingell of Michigan. Thank you so much, Congresswoman, for being here.

I want to quickly go to Republican Congressman Chip Roy of Texas, another Republican who agrees with you and demands that the Epstein files are released. Here's what he said to Manu Raju.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): I'll let the, you know, Department of Justice continue to carry out what they need to do. I do think there needs to be more transparency. I do think that all needs to move forward, and I think -- I think the administration needs to address that. But we'll keep, you know, talking to them about what they're going to do.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Their memo wasn't good enough for you?

ROY: We'll see. We got -- we want to see more information out of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: So Manu also asked him: "You don't believe what the Justice Department is saying?" And he says, "No, I don't."

Do you believe what the Justice Department is saying?

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): You know, I don't know what the truth is. First of all, everybody keeps talking about it's Democrats pushing this. It is Republicans and the MAGA base pushing this. Even the speaker yesterday said that there needed to be more transparency. Marjorie Taylor Greene has been very excited about this issue, calling for more transparency for weeks.

So we're watching all of this. It is during the campaign that all these very same Republicans called it conspiracy, demanded release of files, and made a promise that as soon as they were in office they would release these files. They created expectations. They made it -- they added to the conspiracy theory and now suddenly they're saying that there's nothing there.

People don't know what to believe. They believe that things are being hidden. Quite frankly, the whole last year was built on people hiding things and built on conspiracy theories. And you have a White House and Justice Department that are practicing what they condemned.

[07:35:00]

SIDNER: Let me ask you about whether you believe some things are being hidden. There has been condemnation by Democrats over these many years of these conspiracy theories involving Epstein and others.

Do you think there's something being hidden by the Justice Department because you have tweeted several times that you think these files do need to be released?

DINGELL: I think those files need to be released so we all get the facts. I am seasoned enough that I have actually been adjacent to things that have started in Washington that have categorically no truth to them and have told people that there is no truth to them. But I am also seasoned enough to know that when facts come out. Unfortunate truths come out that people don't want to hear.

Look, there's a very damning picture of the president with Jeffrey Epstein. Now, a picture in and of itself -- people are innocent until proven guilty. But then give us what that file is. Don't hide it and don't, for years -- not weeks, not days, not months -- have called it a conspiracy and say that things are being hidden. There are things that happened that people don't want to know.

I mean, Pam Bondi -- the attorney general stood on the White House lawn and said the files are on my desk -- I'm going through them all -- and then say there is nothing.

And I would say that is a bigger problem with their base. A larger problem with their base. Democrats just want the facts.

SIDNER: All right. Speaking to something that is becoming a problem for the Trump administration -- something that has a far more reaching effect on the voters and citizens of the -- of the country.

CNN has new polling out showing that six in 10 Americans oppose the bill that Trump called the "big, beautiful bill" that was passed.

Furthermore, Republican Sen. Josh Hawley introduced a bill Tuesday to repeal those very Medicaid cuts that are unpopular that he and his Republican colleagues voted for in Trump's mega bill. Hawley saying, "I want to see Medicaid reductions stopped and rural hospitals fully funded permanently."

What do Democrats plan to do with all of this?

DINGELL: Look, we are going to be out there. We're going to be talking about what's in the bill. We are going to be doing everything we can to minimize the impact. To try to make sure that people are not hurt.

You know, I find myself some days cheering for Josh Hawley because he said what was in it was immoral and not that good -- he'll vote against it. And he didn't. And this bill that he's introduced -- well, good if it stops it.

And what people don't understand he said it's the entire health care --

SIDNER: Congresswoman, do you think it has any chance -- do you think it has any chance of being stopped -- of the bill passing?

DINGELL: Not if Donald Trump's against it. I mean, we're going to push for it. And I think that a lot of Republicans are going to hear a lot from people at home. I know what it was like for me.

People were crying. My mother was in the hospital last weekend, so I was in a hospital for several days with her. People are scared. Mothers are crying. Spouses are "What am I going to do with my husband?"

Emergency rooms are already -- you hear about the emergency room boarding. My mother was there with 20 other people for more than 24 hours waiting for a bed. And all I could was sit in that emergency room and think and we just made this system worse.

This system is strained. We're going to close hospitals. People aren't going to health -- have health insurance. And we have a health care problem crisis in this country.

SIDNER: Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, I'm really sorry to hear about your mother. Our prayers are with you and her --

DINGELL: Thank you.

SIDNER: -- as you go through. I really appreciate you coming on -- Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, breaking news overnight.

A major attack in Ukraine while the U.S. special envoy Keith Kellogg is still in the country. President Zelenskyy's hometown was among the cities hit by hundreds of Russian drones targeting energy infrastructure. The barrage leaving behind massive fires.

This new attack comes as Ukraine president is also now speaking out in a new interview saying that sanctions and offensive weapons both are needed to get Russia to the negotiating table, suggesting anything short of that won't work.

Zelenskyy tells Newsmax this. "The Russians understand only force, so only strong sanctions and only strong -- only strong sanctions and only strong weapons."

Yesterday, President Trump declared publicly that he is not sending long-range missiles and does not want Ukraine to target Moscow.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Should Zelenskyy target Moscow or deeper into Russia?

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, he shouldn't target Moscow.

REPORTER: Are you willing to give long-range missiles to Ukraine as well and that we had about 50 days?

TRUMP: No. We're not looking to do that. I'm on nobody's side. I'm the -- I want it -- you know the side I'm on? Humanity's side.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining us right now is CNN global affairs analyst Kim Dozier, and CNN military analyst and retired Air Force colonel Cedric Leighton. Thanks both for being here.

Let's start, Colonel, with what we've learned from President Trump. Trump saying no to long-range missiles. Saying publicly he does not want Ukraine to target -- to hit Moscow.

[07:40:00]

How much does that blunt the good news, if it does, that Ukraine got from the president with the announcement on Monday?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): Well, good morning, Kate. Yeah, it does blunt it somewhat because the initial reports about the aid that the U.S. would funnel through NATO included the possibility of long-range weapons that would go to the Ukrainians.

Now, the other side of this is that the Ukrainians do have some capabilities that they built indigenously that can actually hit Moscow and St. Petersburg. So the Ukrainians are not completely incapable of doing those things and of basically holding those two cities at risk.

So it's a mixed message but it does blunt it somewhat, absolutely.

BOLDUAN: And Kim, hearing that from President Trump and also when he says that -- saying -- he said it previously but in the context of this week and the tonal shift we'd heard from President Trump it seems newly significant when he says, "I'm not taking anybody's side."

What message does that send to Vladimir Putin right now do you think?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, he's saying he's not taking anyone's side but once again he's extended a deadline for Vladimir Putin, giving Putin's forces more chances to take more territory on the ground in Ukraine and also to increase terrorizing the country.

You know, in the first of the war, 2022 to 2023, they used about 2,000 Shahed drones across the country against the Ukrainians. This year it's up to more than 5,000 drones, plus ballistic missiles, et cetera. And not just hitting military areas but it looks like the Russians have chosen to start hitting civilian areas across the country in this most recent round to terrorize the people. Break the will perhaps of the troops. And as Putin reportedly told Trump, use the next 50 days to take as much territory as he can.

BOLDUAN: And Colonel, then hearing what Zelenskyy is now spelling out in this new interview, and I'll read the quote according to Newsmax of what he said, which is, "President Trump and all of America and Europe know that we want peace and an end to the war, but the Russians understand only force. So only strong sanctions and only strong weapons. We are ready for action for a demonstration of force."

He may be careful here in his wording, but do you hear him laying out that what is being offered -- what has been announced by the White House is not enough?

LEIGHTON: Yeah. In part, I think Zelenskyy is saying that, Kate, but the -- you know, of course, he has to walk a very fine line. He's grateful for the weapons that are potentially being delivered to Ukraine, such as the Patriots and some of the other munitions that are part of these packages that are supposed to get there.

But the problem is this. None of this is going to change anything that is on the ground. And if you don't change the conditions on the ground, you are not going to give Putin the incentive that he needs in order to actually go to the negotiating table and go there seriously.

So as Kim was laying out perfectly, these are the kinds of things that are basically going on right now and when it comes to the areas on the ground, such as the area around Pokrovsk in eastern Ukraine, those areas are contested. There are huge Russian troop concentrations there and those are the kinds of targets that the Ukrainians absolutely need to get at. But they also need to get at the areas where those troops are being supplied from -- where those troops are being commanded from. And that's what the Ukrainians not only want to do but they need to do from a military standpoint.

BOLDUAN: And Kim, it's going to be a big question of how the White House -- how the president interprets what we hear from President Zelenskyy now.

But you have -- you're deeply sourced throughout Europe. What are you hearing from your sources about how they read all of this?

DOZIER: On the one hand they are thrilled that the U.S. has given them permission to buy these weapons systems and give them to Ukraine. They don't know, however, how many weapon systems and how soon they'll be allowed to do this.

Ukraine did -- does urgently need those Patriot defensive systems because Ukraine is right now having to make choices: do you protect the civilian areas, or do you protect military bases? They don't have enough air defense systems to do both.

But in the long term what the U.S. has just done is taking itself out of the funding picture. So far, the U.S. has given about $77 billion in military aid to Ukraine and Europe has given $82 billion in aid. Europe is now going to have to shoulder that alone at a time of tight defense budgets when they're all supposed to be raising their own defense spending. So that is a tough equation.

[07:45:00]

BOLDUAN: Yeah, it is definitely a complicated picture right now.

It's great to see you both. Thank you very much -- John.

BERMAN: All right. New details in the trial of the dentist accused of killing his wife with cyanide and arsenic. Prosecutors say he gave her the lethal dose when she was already in the hospital.

And a huge explosion in Alabama. What we know about this dangerous fireball.

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BERMAN: All right. This morning the White House is facing intense pressure for more transparency in the Jeffrey Epstein case. President Trump said twice that Attorney General Pam Bondi should release any information she finds to be credible, but Bondi knocked down that suggestion.

[07:50:05]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PAM BONDI, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Today our memo speaks for itself, and we'll get back to you on anything else. I haven't seen all of his statements today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Bondi is referring to the DOG memo -- DOJ memo that concludes there is no Epstein client list and that he committed suicide while awaiting trial in 2019.

Bondi also repeatedly refused to answer questions about her reported fallout with Deputy FBI Director Dan Bongino. This is what the president said about him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLIN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Do you have confidence in Dan Bongino? Do you have confidence in Dan?

TRUMP: I like Dan Bongino, yeah.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: With us now former FBI special -- assistant special agent in charge Mike Feinberg who says he was pressured to resign from the Bureau earlier this year at the direction of Dan Bongino. Mike, nice to see you.

The personality of Bongino out of this for a second, what happens when the deputy director of the FBI might or might not have the confidence of the president and might or might not be feuding with the attorney general? What does that do to the rank-and-file?

MIKE FEINBERG, FORMER ASSISTANT SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, FBI (via Webex by Cisco): It's a really interesting dynamic.

First of all, I think it's important to caveat what we're about to talk about by noting that it is very rare for any of the senior FBI leadership to have as much interaction with the president as we see under this administration. So that, in and of itself, is an anomaly. But if that's going to happen and that relationship is going to become strained at the same time that the relationship with named DOJ becomes strained, it has a real effect on the FBI's ability to do its jobs.

FBI agents don't like to admit this but it's really difficult for them to move their cases forward without the assistance of federal prosecutors. And to the extent there's a lot of friction between those two buildings the mission suffers.

BERMAN: All right. I want to play a little bit more of what the president is now saying about the Epstein case. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would say that, you know, these files were made up by Comey. They were made up by Obama. They were made up by the Biden -- you know, we were -- and we went through years of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So Mike, what's wrong with that timeline?

FEINBERG: Um, what's wrong with that timeline is that the Epstein investigation, arrest, and suicide took place during the first Trump administration. It emphatically was not something that the Biden DOJ had anything whatsoever to do with.

BERMAN: And not only that -- I mean, the original -- his original arrest and conviction in Florida was during the Bush administration, right? The ultimate --

FEINBERG: Correct.

BERMAN: The ultimate arrest --

FEINBERG: Correct.

BERMAN: -- conviction, and suicide were during the Trump administration.

Comey was actually out of the FBI by the time that all happened --

FEINBERG: Yes.

BERMAN: -- because Trump had pushed him out. I just -- it's farcical on its face.

So when you see that kind of timeline, again, from the president -- if you're in the FBI -- if you're still there -- if you were there in the late 20-teens what are you supposed to think?

FEINBERG: Yeah. I'll just say this. This is one of the very many reasons that the senior leadership of the FBI has traditionally been drawn from a pool that includes the judiciary and the legal and policy world.

When you bring in a group of people who, just to be blunt, are fundamentally unserious and have gained most of their professional experiences through the lens of conspiratorial podcasting, they're going to have difficulty running what is a complex, sober-minded, pragmatic organization.

BERMAN: All right, Mike Feinberg. Great to have you on this morning. Thanks so much for being with us -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right, some other headlines we're watching.

Police say a 22-year-old has been arrested and charged with the murder of a -- of "AMERICAN IDOL's" longtime music supervisor. Robin Kaye and her husband were found dead in their Los Angeles area home on Monday.

And according to L.A. police, the couple suffered from possible gunshot wounds during a burglary. Now police said the couple returned home while the suspect was inside and they were killed after a confrontation.

One neighbor told a CNN affiliate that the couple had a previous break-in the spring and had installed spikes on their fences and security cameras because of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After they did all the security updates, Tom says "I don't think they'll be back and if they do, they're going to have a hard time."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Hmm.

Now, Kaye had been with "AMERICAN IDOL" from 2009 until 2023. The show's producers say that Kaye was "truly loved and respected by all who came in contact with her."

A hijacked plane forced a shutdown of airspace over one of Canada's busiest airports yesterday. Police say a Cessna departed from a flight training airport and flew about 40 miles to Vancouver before it started circling. Air traffic controllers had to briefly ground flights and abort landings because of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: We do have an aircraft that's been hijacked. It is in the vicinity of the airport overflying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Think about hearing that over coms.

A suspect was arrested but so far police have not identified any motive or other explanation as to why the plane was stolen.

Also new this morning there is video that was just released showing a massive fire at an industrial facility in Alabama. The blaze sent flames -- I mean, just look at it -- hundreds of feet into the air. Thirty different agencies rushed to the building Satruday night to put out the fire at the facility that was near the Georgia-Alabama state line, actually. No one was seriously hurt, thank God, but several firefighters did suffer minor injuries -- Sara.

SIDNER: All right.

The murder trial of a Colorado dentist accused of killing his wife is off to an explosive start. Prosecutors saying he poisoned her protein shakes and once caught cooked up a plan while in jail to have the lead detective in the case killed.

In opening statements yesterday prosecutors told the jury that an affair and growing financial troubles led defendant James Craig to kill his wife. They say evidence will show what Craig used to drug his wife's protein shakes. The defense calling the case against her husband pure speculation.

CNN's Jean Casarez joins me now.

What stood out to you in these opening statements?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN REPORTER: Well, that there's one thing that both sides agree on at this point, which is amazing, but that she died of drug poisoning -- a chemical poisoning. Now, how did it happen? That is the big issue right there.

You know, Sara, we knew so much from the probable cause affidavit. We learned even more yesterday. So we already knew that on March 4 someone under the name of James Craig's account ordered arsenic metal. We know that on the sixth of March in 2023 he made her a protein shake and after that she felt drugged.

Now we're learning that on March 8, two days later, he went to the store, and he bought 12 bottles of Visine. That has tetrahydrozoline in it, if I'm saying that correctly -- probably not. March 9, he went to the store and bought more Visine.

Then on March 15 -- pivotal day -- according to prosecutors he took a capsule that she had of medication -- real medication. He emptied it out and he put potassium cyanide inside that capsule. And that there is a text telling his sister-in-law be sure at home to give her that capsule. She's got to have that medication. Very shortly after that she went to the hospital for the very last time.

Watch some opening statements from the prosecution and then the defense.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN BRACKLEY, PROSECUTOR: He went into that room to murder her. To deliberately and intentionally end her life with a fatal dose of cyanide.

ASHLEY WHITHAM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They never find any arsenic or cyanide. Angela was a very broken person. You may not like him, you may not think he's a good husband, but that's not what you're here to decide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Now, the motive that prosecutors say is financial issues, but also the girlfriend. He met a woman at a dental conference -- she's a dentist also -- February 22-25. We want to show you some texts in that interim time before that first protein shake was given. And by the way, they exchanged 4,000 texts in that short period of time -- 80 expressions of love and a future together.

So, he originally says shortly after he meets her: "The problem is that I might be completely in love with you after three days."

Now, Angela, his wife, went to visit family in Utah March 1-5. He texts the girlfriend, Karin Cane: "Maybe she will decide to stay gone for a long time. It would definitely make my life easier."

And then on March 6 he sent another text after that protein shake. "Just for the record, I will never drug you."

Now, Sara, I've got to say there are things in the -- in the defense camp here. First of all, no surveillance video of him ever ordering drugs in the dental office. They never found the arsenic and the potassium cyanide. They never found it at all. The protein shake containers -- no trace of those drugs at all.

And the defense is saying that they just had tunnel vision. From the beginning they had tunnel vision and never looked at anyone else. And they're insinuating that Angela took her own life.

SIDNER: That's what I was going to ask you because it sounds like in the opening statements that the defense is trying to say she was poisoned to death, but it wasn't at his hand; it was at her hand.

CASAREZ: Yes. That she had suicidal tendencies. That she had issues.