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Israel Launches Strikes on Syria; Russia Launches Drone Strikes on Ukraine; Trump Targets Jerome Powell; Trump Lashes Out at MAGA Supporters Over Epstein Files. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 16, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: President Donald Trump lashing out at what he calls his past supporters, taking aim at those asking questions about the Jeffrey Epstein files, calling them weaklings and saying he doesn't want their support anymore.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And fighting the Fed. President Trump escalating his feud with Federal Reserve chief Jerome Powell, saying it's unlikely he will fire him, even as White House officials tell CNN he is toying with the idea.

And air traffic control tower short-staffed. CNN went behind the scenes of the academy that is trying to supercharge training and fix this problem before it gets totally out of control.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: We're following two big stories out of the White House this afternoon.

Moments ago, the president making clear that he's not planning on firing the chairman of the Federal Reserve, but he's not ruling it out either, that tacit threat now hanging not just over Jerome Powell, but U.S. markets as well.

The other story, the one that President Donald Trump allegedly wants to go away, is one that he himself seems unable to stop talking about, today, the president lashing out at Democrats and his -- quote -- "past supporters," which he says are now weaklings for getting behind a scam that is, in his words, B.S.

That alleged scam, which the president notably has a new name for, the Jeffrey Epstein hoax, is one that he and many of his allies campaigned on, the promise that they would expose alleged systemic and widespread corruption, a conspiracy and a cover-up tied to Jeffrey Epstein and his associates. Also important to point out it's not just Democrats or past supporters that are taking interest. A large number of Republicans on Capitol Hill, including House Speaker Mike Johnson, suggests that more transparency is needed, especially after Trump's DOJ decided not to release any more Epstein files.

Let's take you straight to the White House now with CNN's Kristen Holmes.

And, Kristen, a striking shift in tone from President Trump, seeming to get aggressive, even defensive on this, going after his own supporters.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely. One thing to notice, Boris, I mean, this is not just people who are out there in the ether.

These are even people who are in his administration who pushed this conspiracy theory. He put them into the highest echelons of his actual administration. We're talking about FBI Director Kash Patel, Deputy Director of the FBI Dan Bongino, the attorney general, Pam Bondi.

These were all people who, leading up to President Trump's second term, were calling for the release of these so-called Epstein files. Now you are hearing Donald Trump, who seems incredibly angry about the fact that this won't just go away, that these supporters, many of them not in the administration now, are still calling for new documents, saying there's more that needs to be uncovered.

This is what he said about his own supporters today:

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's all been a big hoax. It's perpetrated by the Democrats. And some stupid Republicans and foolish Republicans fall into the net. And so they try and do the Democrats' work.

They're wasting their time with a guy who obviously had some very serious problems who died three, four years ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: He also said at one point that Republicans got duped by Democrats.

He supported his attorney general, Pam Bondi, saying, what else could she do, but said that if there were more credible things that she could release, that she should, like documents.

I am talking to these MAGA high-profile supporters of President Trump, and they are very angry with the way that this has played out, from the rollout from the attorney general to how President Trump is handling this. What happens next remains to be seen. Of course, we have seen President Trump face headwinds from Republicans in the past, but it does feel different this time around, Boris. A lot of these people who were pushing this, who want answers were

people who helped, as you said, get him elected in the first place.

SANCHEZ: Yes, no doubt about that. We will have to see how the MAGA base feels about all of this.

Kristen, on Fed Chair Jerome Powell, the president, apparently, according to reporting, holding up a drafted letter demanding his resignation to Republicans yesterday at the White House, polling them as to whether or not he should fire Powell.

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Today, Trump didn't appear to confirm that reporting, but he did say that it is something that isn't being ruled out completely.

HOLMES: Yes, Boris, I mean, moments after, a White House official confirmed to me that he had polled lawmakers, he had asked them if he should fire Powell, that he had said that he was intent on firing Powell.

You heard President Trump saying that was not real reporting -- again, I heard it from a White House official who told me -- and that he wasn't actually considering firing Powell. This has kind of been a whole whiplash scenario that we have seen. We know one thing. President Trump and his administration at this point do not like Jerome Powell, and they are trying to get him out of his current position.

Now, we also know that there are going to be a lot of problems, as do his top officials, if he does, in fact, try and fire Jerome Powell. So what you are seeing, at least in part here, is a maximum pressure campaign. You are seeing it from various different angles of the administration, sending him letters saying that he lied to Congress, calling him out, saying that they're going to fire him, joining the National Capital Planning committee to look into the renovation project that Jerome Powell is doing on the U.S. bank.

So these are all parts of the same tactic. You heard President Trump saying he's not even considering it at one point. Then he kind of said he wasn't ruling it out either, but that he would wait until his term was over. His term is over in a matter of months at this point. Again, there are a lot of people in President Trump's ear.

The one thing Trump is certain of is that he wishes Powell was no longer in this position. There are a lot of people telling him it's too dangerous for the markets, it's going to make too much of a tenuous -- an un-tenuous situation if you do fire him or you try to.

So you're hearing him here kind of dance around it.

SANCHEZ: Yes, the pressure campaign for Fed Chair Powell.

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TRUMP: But I think it's highly unlikely unless he has to leave fraud. I mean, it's possible there's fraud involved with the $2.5 billion, $2.7 billion renovation. This is a renovation. How do you spend $2.7 billion?

And he didn't have proper clearance, et cetera, et cetera. So you know that's going on. So there could be something to that. But I think he's not doing a good job. He's got a very easy job to do. You know what he has to do? Lower interest rates.

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HOLMES: And there you have it, Boris. What it all comes down to is, President Trump wants Jerome Powell to lower interest rates, and he won't.

SANCHEZ: Yes, the pressure campaign, though, will continue, at least until the foreseeable future.

Kristen Holmes, thank you so much from the White House.

Let's dig deeper on this with Will Sommer. He is a senior reporter for The Bulwark and author of "Trust the Plan: The Rise of QAnon and the Conspiracy That Reshaped the World."

Will, thanks so much for being with us.

How do you think Trump's message is being received specifically on this Epstein scandal and him calling it a hoax?

WILL SOMMER, SENIOR REPORTER, THE BULWARK: I think it's going very poorly for the president.

I mean, I think the Epstein case and the idea that there was this pedophile cabal is sort of an article of faith among MAGA voters, and I think a lot of other people as well. And now the Trump -- you see president not only saying there's nothing here, but now today going on the offensive against his own supporters, saying I don't want you as a Trump supporter if you believe in this stuff or calling them stupid, weaklings.

I mean, it's really unprecedented and they're not taking it well.

KEILAR: You have described this as five different MAGA factions who are waging this civil war over the Epstein issue. Explain why that makes it so unmanageable for Trump and the White House.

SOMMER: Yes, I mean, I think you have one group that is really falling in line behind Trump and saying, Trump said to move on. We saw the commentator Dinesh D'Souza basically said, I know we were all excited about Epstein and that case, but we're just going to have to -- almost like a dictator, we're just going to have to do what he says.

And then you have a lot of people. I mean, kind of the big groups here are people who have -- in terms of the right-wing media have really built a significant part of their careers on Epstein and related conspiracy theories. And they know their audience, I think somewhat reasonably, thinks that there's something more than the public has seen going on here at least, and then suddenly is getting a lot of whiplash when the president is saying, never mind.

I mean, a few months ago, J.D. Vance himself was talking about seeing the Epstein client list and wanting to see it.

SANCHEZ: Yes, so now they're caught in this sort of weird place.

I do think it's important to sort of dissect some of the word salad that we have heard from Trump when he's asked questions specifically about these files. And he suggests that James Comey was involved, that former President Obama or former President Biden were involved.

Jeffrey Epstein was arrested and prosecuted when Donald Trump was president, prosecuted by an A.G. that he had confirmed by the Senate, an FBI director that he appointed. So this was the Trump administration overseeing this investigation, right?

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SOMMER: That's right. I mean, look, I mean, he died in a jail that was controlled by the Trump Justice Department.

And so it's very bizarre now -- I mean, this idea that Obama or Comey or Biden was involved in cooking these files is really coming out of nowhere. And I think that's partially why that idea that Trump is floating sort of a distraction, a deflection to his supporters really has been getting no traction with them.

KEILAR: Is there any danger in -- we're hearing Democrats say they promised something they didn't deliver. But long have we heard Democrats, Will, talking about how it's really dangerous that Republicans play into conspiracy theory at theories. And we're hearing a number of Democrats now sort of saying, well, what is being buried?

Is there a danger in them doing that and fanning the flames of that? Because it's not just Republicans who are wondering what's in these files.

SOMMER: Yes, it's a good question. I mean, certainly, the Epstein case has been the source of a lot of, I think dangerous conspiracy theories, including QAnon.

On the other hand, I think reasonable people can think a lot still hasn't come out. I mean, I know reporters who have followed this case very closely, very legitimate people, are saying there's still a lot we don't know and that I think we reasonably could expect to know.

Why was Jeffrey Epstein given such a nice prosecution -- guilty plea deal back in 2008 and all these other questions? Why did he have such high-powered connections? And so I think that's why people are just so surprised that Trump is now saying we're closing the door on this. Why do you even care about it?

KEILAR: Yes, we have to remind people he was a convicted sex offender when he died, or certainly one who had admitted to that. Will Sommer, thank you so much. We really appreciate it.

Let's talk about the president's threat to fire Fed Chair Jerome Powell.

With us now is Scott Lincicome, who practiced international trade law for decades and is now the vice president of general economics and trade at the Cato Institute.

Scott, you hear Trump saying, as we have just covered, that it's highly unlikely he will fire the Fed chair. But he talked about the concept of firing him with members of Congress last night. He polled them on doing so. They all seemed to think that he should, or the vast majority did. He appeared to point to a draft dismissal letter of Powell.

How do you see what's happening?

SCOTT LINCICOME, VICE PRESIDENT OF GENERAL ECONOMICS, CATO INSTITUTE: Yes, I think there are two big concerns.

The first is Fed independence. Investors greatly value a Federal Reserve and U.S. monetary policy that is mostly independent from politics, that doesn't implement interest rate decisions based on what an elected official wants, but instead what the data say.

And that gets to the second issue is policy. Whether it is Jay Powell- being jawboned into changing Fed policy or Powell's replacement changing Fed policy, there are big question marks about whether the Federal Reserve should be cutting interest rates and loosening monetary policy right now.

The biggest question is related to Trump's own favorite policy and that's tariffs. Most economists will say we should look through the tariffs and implement Fed policy without considering them.

But that's really hard for the Federal Reserve right now because there's so much uncertainty swelling around these tariffs, not just the eventual tariff rates, but the reactions of other governments, of companies, of American consumers, these trade deals are supposedly coming, and, of course, how tariffs are affecting prices of goods and services, how they're affecting investments and the rest.

If you look at these soft survey data that are out there, they're not looking good for the future for prices and the general state of American business, but they haven't come through into the hard data yet. So the Fed's in a really hard spot, not to mention there are a lot of other factors at play.

There were other signs in Tuesday's inflation print for the Consumer Price Index. Services were also looking a little frothy. We have a weaker dollar that could feed into inflation. There are a lot of questions that don't all point to just cut, cut, cut like Trump wants.

KEILAR: So when you look at how the markets are reacting here, stocks dropped after those reports from CBS News and other outlets that Trump was likely to fire Powell, we have seen a different reaction since he said it's actually highly unlikely that he would fire Powell.

How are the markets reacting and how do you see him reacting to how the markets are reacting?

LINCICOME: Yes, one of the few checks on Trump's policies does appear to be market reactions still. And I think one of the reasons he's gotten more aggressive on tariffs is because the markets have seemed to have signed off on a lot of this, or at least they don't think it's going to be the worst Trump terrorist that we thought maybe back in April.

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But that's going to keep also a check on Trump's decisions related to Powell and the Federal Reserve. And a really severe adverse market reaction is the last thing that Trump wants right now. And I don't think that he's going to go forward if the markets do pull back in that way.

But, then again, there's a lot of jawboning you can do without actually firing the Fed share.

KEILAR: To fire Powell, Trump would have to find a cause, right? I mean, that's part of the issue here. And he's sort of hinted at the one, which is this multibillion-dollar renovation which Trump said yesterday, I think it is sort of a fireable offense.

Is it a fireable offense?

LINCICOME: Oh, gosh, I really don't know. The reality is that it would be as much an excuse to do what Trump already wanted to do with respect to policy than it would to anything to do about an actual construction project.

At this point, I don't think it's that building that's the real concern. It's Powell's resistance to what Trump wants, which is a lower interest rates and loser monetary policy.

KEILAR: But, Scott, if he cans Powell, it's not like he immediately gets a lower rate, right? I mean, what would you expect to happen with the economic pressures that might dictate what would happen with rates?

LINCICOME: Yes, and this is an important point. It's not really clear that mortgage rates, for example, would go down a lot with a different Fed chair. That depends on a lot of different metrics, a lot of different factors that have nothing to do with what the Fed does and with setting interest rates.

And so it's -- especially given potential adverse market reaction and given simply procedural delays, it's not clear that Trump could get exactly what he wanted right away. And I think that's one of the reasons why perhaps people are advising him to take a step back on this.

KEILAR: Yes, it appears for now he will keep his sort of punching bag in place and then he will have a bag to punch as he complains about interest rates and the economy.

Scott Lincicome, thank you so much. Always great to have you.

Coming up: President Trump may be more vocal about his frustrations with Russia, but Moscow just unleashed hundreds of drone attacks overnight. What we know about this onslaught.

Plus, a busy airport shut down after a small plane was hijacked and began circling the airspace above it. Ahead, hear new audio from air traffic control on the .

Also, federal investigators announcing charges against current and former police chiefs over an alleged bribery scheme to help foreign nationals get visas. We have got the details coming up on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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KEILAR: Russia unleashed another major attack across Ukraine overnight, including on President Zelenskyy's hometown.

The Ukrainian Air Force says the raid involved 400 long-range drones and one missile, and they called it the largest attack of the week so far. After the bombardment, Zelenskyy again pleaded for more air defense systems. On Monday, President Trump said Ukraine will get more Patriot missile systems via NATO and threatened severe tariffs on countries that buy Russian oil if the Kremlin doesn't agree to a cease-fire deal within 50 days.

CNN chief international security correspondent Nick Paton Walsh joins us now.

Nick, what's the latest on these overnight attacks?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: The city of Kharkiv, Ukraine's second largest, hit with 16 drones in just 14 minutes that impacted there, two people killed, many injured in the regions around the city.

And, as you said, President Zelenskyy of Ukraine's hometown, Kryvyi Rih, hit with what the local officials said was the largest attack of the war so far. Look, the 400 drones that hit across Ukraine, that's almost half the record number that we have seen in recent weeks, broken again and again, so a relatively small attack, but not focused on the capital.

And Zelenskyy himself made a suggestion as to why he thought perhaps that may have been the case. Trump's Ukraine envoy, General Keith Kellogg, has been visiting for the past days and Zelenskyy perhaps joking, suggesting he should get a Ukrainian passport, stay around for longer, but essentially suggesting that the pause in substantial attacks against the capital may indeed be linked to Russian fears about hitting a senior U.S. official, suggesting that Russia fears the United States. Trying to capitalize upon the change in White House tone in just the

last week leading Trump to suggest that Patriot interceptor missiles or even batteries themselves could be days away from Ukrainian hands. You could see last night and multiple nights how urgently more air defenses are needed by Kyiv and other Ukrainian cities

too. But still questions, Boris, about how and when exactly this 50- day deadline to impose secondary sanctions will in fact kick in. In fact, Sergey Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, has commented that they have seen the 24-hour deadline, the 100-day deadline kind of move past them, seen it all before, he said.

So, uncertainty as to if indeed this 50-day deadline will have the impact that Trump seems to hope it will, particularly on China and India, two key Russian energy customers who might perhaps impose pressure on Russia to come to some kind of deal, but many concerned these 50 days will in fact instead be used by Russia to try and exploit Ukraine's weaknesses across the front line in perhaps a heightened summer offensive.

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Ukraine really struggling with manpower and perhaps that's what Moscow is aiming towards now, Boris.

KEILAR: Nick Paton Walsh, thank you so much for the latest there.

And right now there's also a tense situation escalating in the Middle East. Israel launched a series of attacks on Syria's capital, Damascus. One moment from a Syrian television station showed the Ministry of Defense building being bombed in the background, the TV anchor there actually having to take cover live on air.

SANCHEZ: Wow. Israel says today's airstrikes are part of its campaign to protect an Arab minority known as the Druze, who've clashed with Syrian forces near the Golan Heights. The United States has described the situation as worrisome.

CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson joins us now.

Nic, help us understand why Israel is interested in protecting the Druze and how these airstrikes might impact the region overall.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, the Druze are a minority community in Syria, in Lebanon, but also in Israel. And they -- actually, a lot of them in Israel contribute and join the Israeli Defense Force. They're very well represented there.

Israel has had a long affinity for supporting its own Druze community and the Druze community inside of Syria. What they say they're doing at the moment is protecting that Druze community, but also, by default, protecting their own borders. They don't trust, they say, the government of Ahmed al-Sharaa, the Syrian leader who was once a member of al Qaeda.

They believe that there are still maybe ISIS elements inside the Syrian army. That's what they have been saying. And if the Druze community were defeated in this town of Suwayda, the IDF figures that these Syrian army elements could end up on the border with Israel, and that's not something that they're prepared to tolerate.

What we have seen, however, is two strikes on the Defense Ministry, a strike on the Syrian presidential palace today, the Syrian Defense Ministry saying this is a dangerous escalation, part of a policy, an Israeli policy, they say, to destabilize Syria.

There is, however, and this is fast-moving because you see these strikes on these government buildings in Damascus, some distance from where the Druze community is, Israel's way of signaling to the Syrian leadership to change course and change track. But there is, according to the Syrian Interior Ministry right now, a cease-fire in play.

But this has to be sort of held with a little bit of skepticism because the Druze community is split, and one Druze leader says, support the cease-fire, and another leader in the Druze community says, no, don't. Secretary of State Marco Rubio, however, has said he is hopeful that some stability could be restored.

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MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: These are historic, longtime rivalries between different groups in the southwest of Syria, bedouins, the Druze community. And it led to an unfortunate situation and a misunderstanding, it looks like, between the Israeli side and the Syrian side. So we have been engaged with them all morning long and all night long with both sides.

And we think we're on our way towards a real de-escalation. In the next few hours, we hope to see some real progress to end what you have been seeing over the last couple hours.

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ROBERTSON: If the situation were to escalate and the cease-fire weren't to hold, then that would build tensions between Israel and Syria, and there's no indication of just how that would be bought under control.

It's diplomacy or an escalation in fighting, which would mean higher tensions throughout the region.

KEILAR: Nic Robertson, thank you so much.

And up next, CNN gives you an inside look at the FAA's rush to end the air traffic controller shortage affecting airports across the country.

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