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Hearing for Kilmar Abrego Garcia in Tennessee Criminal Case; Courts Use Comport Dogs to Help Witnesses Through Testimony; Cuban Woman was Only Person to Survive 2018 Plane Crash; Obamas Poke Fun at Divorce Gossip on Podcast. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired July 16, 2025 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Thank you so much for being with us, and there seem to be some indications here in recent court proceedings that there may not be reason to hold Mr. Abrego Garcia for pretrial detention, in which case he would be released and very possibly deported based on what we're hearing from the Trump administration. How are you preparing for that?

BENJAMIN OSORIO, IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY FOR KILMAR ABREGO GARCIA: Well, in the event that happens and goes into ICE custody, at this point we're anticipating that they're going to try to send him to a third country since he has that withholding protection from El Salvador. So we're prepping everything we can right now for that eventuality.

KEILAR: And so do you have any indication where he could be deported to if he's deported?

OSORIO: At this time, we've not heard from the Department of Homeland Security which third country they would be removing him to. As I'm sure you saw on the news this morning, they are starting, you know, removals to new countries in Africa as well, to Libya and Sudan. So it's hard to know.

But I mean, it's hard to think about being in that position. I mean, if you get dumped in a country where you have no contacts, have no language skills, I mean, it's a hard thought. And again, we're going to do everything we can to make sure that he gets the due process he didn't receive before.

KEILAR: The federal judge in this immigration case, Judge Xinis said she's considering an order that would actually block the Trump administration from taking any steps to deport him for 48 hours if he's released before trial. What would that two days buffer give you time to do?

OSORIO: I mean, we would immediately trigger what's called a reasonable fear interview to that third country. So that would allow us to try to seek protection, a similar protection to what Mr. Abrego has right now from El Salvador to this new country.

KEILAR: And would the reasonable fear be different, dependent on which country it is that he might go to if it was an African nation versus another nation in Latin America?

OSORIO: Yes. I mean, I think, you know, given the nationality, the language issues and all of that, his profile or his danger risk levels would be different depending on the country. Obviously, most of that's going to be very dependent on the country conditions themselves. So we'll see what the department ends up doing.

KEILAR: Can you share what what he's thinking right now, Kilmar Abrego Garcia, his family, what they're concerned about right now as they confront this possibility that he may be deported?

OSORIO: I can't tell you what he's thinking, but I can tell you what many similar situated families are thinking right now. I mean, this is tough. I don't think that Americans realize how intertwined these individuals are with, you know, not only the economy, but U.S. families. You know, I saw a father of three U.S. citizen kids the other day and, you know, has a U.S. citizen spouse and he's in detention and his seven year old is crying, asking me, when can dad come home?

So, I mean, you know, he's obviously, you know, fearful, this individual I'm speaking of, of losing his family and his family scared of having to go on welfare or look for food benefits or those kind of things.

And so, you know, whether you're Kilmar or whether you're any one of these individuals or whether this is a loved one of yours that's looking at being detained in Alligator Alcatraz, I mean, I just don't understand the lack of compassion, the lack of mercy, the lack of empathy that we have right now for human beings.

KEILAR: Benjamin, we are seeing some of that. We're telling some of those stories, including in mixed status families. Our Priscilla Alvarez just brought a story to us on our program about a family in Pennsylvania that is self-deporting to Mexico.

Only the father is undocumented, but they have been watching this specific case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, and they're very concerned this could happen to them. How do you see this case affecting -- Are you seeing that self-deportation on a broad scale?

OSORIO: I'm not seeing it on a broad scale, but we are seeing it. I mean, I have, you know, people come into the office every day asking, you know, am I at risk? Should I do this? I don't want to get sent to Libya. I don't want to get sent to South Sudan. I don't know anybody there. And I'd rather, you know, go back home to whatever their their home country is rather than look at one being detained in someplace like Alligator Alcatraz or two.

So, I mean, that is the point of these tactics, right? It's the cruelty is to inspire fear, is to inspire people to self-deport. And people are rightfully scared.

KEILAR: Benjamin Osorio, thank you so much. We'll continue to follow this hearing as well as we wait to see what the outcome is. But we thank you for joining us before we know. OSORIO: Thank you for having me. Thank you, ma'am.

KEILAR: Ahead, the latest in the murder trial of the Colorado dentist accused of killing his wife by poisoning her protein shakes.

[15:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Day two of testimony is underway right now in the murder trial of Colorado dentist James Craig, who's accused of poisoning his wife to death.

KEILAR: Today, the jury has heard from a nurse at the hospital where Craig's wife was being cared for and also from one of Craig's dental office managers. That witness says she saw an open package containing potassium cyanide.

At least one of Craig's daughters could testify today. And during her testimony, a comfort dog will be allowed in the courtroom, but the dog will be placed under the witness stand. It will be out of view of the jury so that they will not be seeing it.

Julie Siepmann is the clinical services director for Juliet's House, which works with families and emotional support dogs. She's also the primary handler for a courthouse facility dog provided by Juliet's House.

[15:40:02]

And we see Mac there, who is the star of this segment, even as he takes it incredibly easy.

Julie, just talk to us a little bit about this process, how it works and the how uncommon it is or common to have these dogs working in courthouses because it's not something we always hear about.

JULIE SIEPMANN, CLINICAL SERVICES DIRECTOR, JULIETTE'S HOUSE: Yes, absolutely. So it's what we found kind of just starting with the dogs themselves is that having a dog present can reduce anxiety and help people feel much calmer adults as well as children in legal proceedings. And so dogs are being used more and more, both in courthouses, in the courtrooms themselves, as well as before and after legal proceedings, as well as in child advocacy centers, which is what Juliet's House is.

So when children are asked to come and talk about experiences of abuse in a forensic interview and during forensic medical evaluations, having dogs present really helps people through those difficult times.

SANCHEZ: It is incredibly calming just to watch Mac right now. He's adorable. I kind of wish we had one here around the studio, given some of the stories that we cover.

I wonder, Julie, what goes into training a dog like Mac? SIEPMANN: Yes, so the training for a courthouse facility dog is very specific. And it starts actually even before the dogs come into existence, because these are purpose-bred dogs. So these dogs are bred to do this work, to have specific temperaments, to be well-suited to have this level of calm.

And they are -- all of these dogs are bred and then trained through organizations that are accredited through Assistance Dogs International and then work with organizations that raise and then train the dogs and then place the dogs with organizations like ours.

So Mac was provided to Juliet's House by an organization called Assistance Dogs Northwest, which is accredited through Assistance Dogs International. And again, that accreditation is the most important part of the process.

But they're raised by usually volunteer puppy raisers, and then they go into professional training for six to nine months where they learn additional cues that the puppy raisers haven't taught them. And so most of these dogs have full training as like service dogs, but they're not doing service dog work. They are specifically trained to provide this support and comfort to people who are in high stress situations.

KEILAR: So in this particular situation of being with a witness who is testifying in an incredibly stressful situation, what kind of cues is the dog picking up on? And then how are they responding? I mean, is this as simple as they're kind of they're sitting at the feet of the witness?

Are they putting their head, you know, against their leg or on their lap? What is the dog doing?

SIEPMANN: It really depends a little bit on the environment that the dog is providing that support. So in the example of a courtroom, in many of those situations, it is a requirement -- like you had mentioned earlier, the dog is tucked up in the witness box out of sight of the jury.

So in that situation, the dog is going to be at the feet of the person of the witness who is testifying and really not responding to cues but providing a lot of sensory input to that witness. So they may be holding that leash. And that sense of kind of comfort and control is significant.

The dog -- they can see the dog visually. And again, just being able to see a dog that is this relaxed provides that sense of calm and relaxation to the person with the dog. They're probably feeling that dog's weight a little bit against their feet.

So the person is really deriving a lot of that support and comfort from the sensory cues that the dog is kind of giving back to the person rather than the dog responding to a lot of specific cues in that moment.

In our center, I'm actually sitting right now in our forensic interview room.

[15:45:00]

So this -- I'm sitting in the position where a child usually sits with Mac on this couch right here. And this is usually what he does. He puts his head in a child's lap. They can pet him. His ears are definitely the softest part of him. So they are getting a lot, again, of sensory input from him that is helping them relax and have an easier time talking about really difficult things.

SANCHEZ: Wow, what fascinating and important work. Julie Siepmann, thank you so much for being with us. And a shout out to Mac, even though I can't tell if he's awake or not.

Is he awake?

SIEPMANN: He is in this an interesting state that he often is when he's doing this work. So if I were to say his name, he -- I think his eyes would immediately fly open. But he's able to get into a deep, deep state of relaxation while doing this.

I think I'm a little remiss if I don't mention kind of -- I've mentioned Assistance Dogs International, but the overarching -- another overarching organization that is really supporting the work of these dogs is Courthouse Dogs -- the Courthouse Dogs Foundation that really is across the United States supporting the work of these dogs. And there are 350 dogs right now working in the legal system in 41 different states and in about seven other countries in the world right now, all supported by the Courthouse Dogs Foundation.

So I think that's just having that awareness that this is a movement that is happening right now and getting more of these dogs out into the world is, I think, really important because we can see the benefit that they that they offer.

SANCHEZ: Sure. Amazing, fascinating work. We appreciate you and we appreciate them as well. Julie, thank you so much.

Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We'll be right back.

[15:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: It's been just over a month since one passenger miraculously walked away from a plane crash in India that killed everyone else on board -- all 260 people. Sole survivors of plane crashes are rare, but they're not unheard of.

In 2018, a woman in Cuba was also the only person to survive a plane crash. CNN's Patrick Oppmann talks to her about her recovery, a process that she says is ongoing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This 2018 plane crash was one of the worst aviation disasters in Cuba's history. One hundred and twelve people died when immediately after takeoff, Cubana Flight 972 careened into the ground and exploded. A catastrophic, un- survivable event, except for one person.

More than 70 years after the accident that took the lives of everyone else on board, Mailen Diaz Almaguer recovers day by day.

I don't remember anything from the plane that day, she says. I do remember details from the airport, but of the impact, nothing.

When Mailen came to, she was in hospital. Her husband had perished in the crash. She suffered paralysis in both legs and soon doctors would need to amputate her lower left leg.

I was treated and I'm treated by brilliant doctors, she says. But they definitely admit that I'm alive by a miracle from God. It's not something you see every day.

Video from the day of the crash shows an aircraft fragmented into smoldering pieces. It's difficult to comprehend how anyone could have survived.

OPPMANN: The plane crashed into this field a short distance from the airport. An investigation later revealed that human air was to blame, that the crew had not correctly calculated the weight of the fuel, of the passengers and their luggage. And then a Cuban investigator said seconds after takeoff, the pilots lost control of the aircraft.

Initially three survivors were taken to hospital, but two later died, leaving only Mailen.

OPPMANN (voice-over): And that's when her ordeal truly began. Mailen has undergone multiple operations to recover from her extensive injuries and every day does hours of physical therapy. She hopes to travel outside of Cuba to do further treatments.

She credits her faith with saving her life and is studying to be a seminarian in the Methodist church in Cuba.

The plane crash in India in June that also left one sole survivor, she says, impacted her deeply. This is her message to her fellow survivor from that crash.

God has a purpose for our lives. And by being here, we have to continue, she says, and not quit. Continue search and fight until we discover what that purpose is.

Despite her injuries and disability, Mailen has learned to drive, has traveled again by plane and is living proof of not just what people can endure, but overcome.

Patrick Oppmann, CNN, Havana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Our thanks to Patrick Oppmann for that report. And ahead, the Obamas finally addressed those divorce rumors.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: After months of speculation that former president Barack Obama and former first lady, Michelle Obama were getting divorced. The former first couple apparently decided that enough is enough and they cleared the air, putting rumors to rest with a healthy dose of humor during a podcast that Michelle co-hosts with her brother. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: It's my husband y'all.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT: She took me back.

M. OBAMA: Now don't start.

CRAIG ROBINSON, MICHELLE OBAMA'S BROTHER: It was touch and go for awhile.

B. OBAMA: These are the kinds of things that I just miss. Right. So I don't even know this stuff's going on.

ROBINSON: Right.

B. OBAMA: And then somebody will mention it to me and I'm all like, what are you talking about?

ROBINSON: Yes.

M. OBAMA: There hasn't been one moment in our marriage where I thought about quitting, my man. And we've had some really hard times. So we had to have had a lot of fun times, a lot of adventures, and I have become a better person because of the man I'm married to.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: The rumors -- I know that was so sweet. The rumors really ramped up when Mrs. Obama was notably absent from some big events that her husband attended, including president Trump's inauguration and also former president Carter's funeral. Good to see they can have a sense of humor about it. Even if it was touch and go for a while.

SANCHEZ: Yes. I'm certain that former president George W. Bush missed her. They have like a funny relationship.

KEILAR: They're hilarious together.

[16:00:00]

SANCHEZ: They're great together. It's also notable this couple, a power couple undoubtedly has gotten so much criticism. So many weird things made up about them over the years. And yet they're so classy in the way that they handle it.

KEILAR: Yes, certainly. But I love how they're basically saying people are just making stuff up, reading into things. She's addressed her non-attendance, which is also an interesting story in its own right.

SANCHEZ: It is, indeed.

KEILAR: But people draw conclusions.

SANCHEZ: Always.

KEILAR: All right, "THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunt starts right now.

SANCHEZ: Thank you so much for joining us.

END