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Republicans Move Forward on Controversial Judicial Nominee; Democratic Voters Energized to Vote in Midterms; Attorney General Pam Bondi Visits Alcatraz. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 17, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: High-profile visit to the Rock. Decades after Alcatraz was shut down due to crumbling infrastructure and exorbitantly high operating costs, Attorney General Pam Bondi is on site right now at the notorious former prison to talk about what it will take to get it back open.

And fired up for the midterms, but fed up with the party. A new CNN poll reveals good and not-so-good news for Democrats.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN HOST: And sweet-talking Coca-Colangelo? The president says the beverage giant just agreed to use cane sugar in its U.S.-made sodas. But what's the company saying?

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: We are standing by right now for a White House briefing, Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt set to take questions as we're tracking some major stories this hour.

Attorney General Pam Bondi is at the center of two of them. Right now, she's touring the former notorious prison Alcatraz weeks after the president called for the facility to be reopened as a federal penitentiary.

And we're following the latest on the fallout surrounding the Jeffrey Epstein files. While the president stands by the attorney general's handling of this investigation, he's lashing out at his supporters who are not.

So let's go straight to CNN's Alayna Treene, who is live for us at the White House.

Alayna, two big stories, even bigger questions as we're awaiting this briefing.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's exactly right.

And I'm sure many of these are going to be really the focus of that briefing with the White House press secretary, Brianna, but, look, I will start with what Bondi is doing today. We know that both she and Interior Secretary Doug Burgum are touring Alcatraz.

And this comes, yes, a couple weeks after the president discussed wanting to reopen it, but I'd remind you that he first brought this up and first floated this idea roughly two months ago, saying that essentially he believes Alcatraz needs to be reopened and rebuilt.

Of course, we have heard from a lot of critics of this idea who have argued that the reason it was shut more than 60 years ago is because the building was essentially crumbling and it's very, very expensive to keep it open and operating, but it does appear that the two of them are there today to kind of kick off the process for getting it up and running again.

Now, we also heard from a Justice Department official who told our colleague Hannah Rabinowitz essentially that Bondi is there to receive a briefing on this and is also -- quote -- "discussing facilities with Park Police on the ground and directing staff to collaborate on the necessary planning to rehabilitate and reopen the facility."

And I would want to remind you just the type of notorious criminals that used to be housed in Alcatraz, of course, the island off of San Francisco. It included criminals like Al Capone, George "Machine Gun" Kelly, among others.

We did also hear some criticism from Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, of course, the former House speaker, as well as Governor Gavin Newsom, on this saying that billions of dollars are going to be needed to be put into this project in order to have Alcatraz actually operate once again.

A lot of questions on what this would actually look like, but it does seem that for the first time in a while that the president had brought this up, they are actually moving forward in trying to get these plans into action, Brianna.

KEILAR: And, Alayna, what's the fallout from Epstein? What's the latest on that?

TREENE: Look, this is something now that we have seen the president really try. I mean, he's been telling his reporters now repeatedly we have to move on from this, Epstein is old news, but it is something that is not going away despite his best efforts.

This has been more than a week now ever since the Justice Department had first put out that memo. And people are still very much angry and wanting answers and they're not necessarily getting them. So, and there's two thoughts of this. I have spoken to a lot of people here in the White House and the Trump administration, some of whom are really frustrated with the way that this was handled, specifically with our Attorney General Pam Bondi has handled all of this.

People telling me that she bungled it from the start, that this was mismanaged the way that they released this news.

And then, of course, there's a lot of the people, particularly those on the outside, part of the president's base, some of his most influential MAGA supporters, saying, we need answers. We were promised more answers. We were promised that we would get more information on what is actually in the so-called Epstein files. And now, all of a sudden, you're saying you can't provide it.

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I mean, that's really what isn't sitting well. And it's been fascinating in my conversations with some of these people, like Steve Bannon, like Laura Loomer, on this. They are perplexed with the way that the president is handling this, because, really, it's so rare to see him not in lockstep with his support and really his base.

And that's exactly what we're seeing here. And then, of course, yesterday, we heard him, one, argue that this is a Democratic hoax, that this is something that was cooked up by people on the left. Of course, we know that's not true. And there's also people who are in the highest echelons of this White House, people like the vice president, the FBI director, the list goes on, who have argued there needs to be more information on this.

Of course, that was prior to what the Justice Department had said in the memo, but then also the sense that his supporters are now his past supporters, that he doesn't believe the people who are in his base or his supporters who are now publicizing this and asking to try to give this more fuel and more attention, he said, are weaklings.

And, so, so many more questions on what could happen here. We have now heard a lot of people say they want a special prosecutor to get involved, to investigate this. Very unclear whether or not the president or this administration would actually back such an effort, Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, Democrats are happy to capitalize on this politically, and that raises some questions in itself, but it's certainly not a Democratic-started hoax here.

Alayna Treene live for us at the White House, thank you very much -- Omar.

JIMENEZ: Joining us now is the former acting Homeland Security Secretary under President Trump Chad Wolf. He's also the executive director of the America First Policy Institute.

Thank you for taking the time.

I want to talk about Alcatraz, because, as we understand, Attorney General Bondi, they are to get a briefing on the facility, meeting with Park Police, directing staff to collaborate on the necessary planning needed to actually open this. But from where you sit, what do you see as the strategy here? Do you see a strategy here?

CHAD WOLF, FORMER ACTING U.S. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, look, I think they have got some challenges, obviously.

I think as most people either have been to Alcatraz or see some photos, it's got some infrastructure challenges. So, A.G. Bondi, Secretary Burgum and others are there on the ground to get a firsthand sense of how big is the challenge to reopen this facility to how some of the -- as the president says, some of the worst criminals out there?

But the president has made his intention clear, his desire. And now it's up to the A.G., it's up to the secretary, it's up to others to see if that can be a reality. And, again, they're going to have some challenges. It's an old facility. It's likely going to have to be transferred back to the Department of Justice, Bureau of Prisons and others.

And so there's a number of things that probably have to happen in this case. And, again, what the A.G. And the secretary are doing there is getting a firsthand look on the ground of what those challenges really are.

JIMENEZ: And back in May, when President Trump first floated this idea, he was asked about what led him to consider this option. Take a quick listen.

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QUESTION: How did you come up with the idea?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I guess I was supposed to be a moviemaker. We're talking about -- we started with the moviemaking, and we will end. I mean, it represents something very strong, very powerful in terms of law and order. Our country needs law and order.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And there's a key term he used there, represents.

And former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi released a statement today, saying -- quote -- "It should concern us all that clearly the only intellectual resources the administration has drawn upon for this foolish notion are decades-old fictional Hollywood movies." She obviously represents the San Francisco area.

But do you believe that the president sees this as more of a symbol meant to send a message, as opposed to what's called a practical and effective way of dealing with the worst of the worst, as he's described it?

WOLF: Well, I don't speak for the president.

But my intent -- what I would say is probably both. Probably, he wants to send a message using Alcatraz to, again, how some very dangerous criminals, but also from a practical standpoint and how safe and secure it once was, can it be that again? Just because it was abandoned or turned over to be essentially a national park some years ago doesn't mean it's not without utility today.

And I think that's the question that his Cabinet and his staff who are on the ground there today are there to assess on, how real can this be? And I'm sure there will be discussions back with the president and his team back in the White House after they get back to say, OK, here's what it's going to take. And do we want to continue to go down this road?

And the call may be, yes, absolutely. We want to do that. We have got a number of prisons and maximum security prisons around the country. It may make a lot of sense to have this facility open back up after a number of years.

JIMENEZ: And part of the reason it closed in the first place, it costs just about three times more to operate than any other federal prison.

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And one thing that I think is an interesting contrast here is this administration has talked a lot about sort of boosting efficiency. That's been their defense in whether it's cuts to public broadcasting, Medicaid, USAID, again, in the name of efficiency.

And then, just from where I sit, it doesn't seem that this sort of fits into that category. I guess do you have any concerns about this either in the cost efficiency zone or otherwise or even just going down this path to begin with?

WOLF: Well, I think where they're at now is just an assessment. So, no, I don't have any concerns with that. I think you're going to -- we're going to have to see. I don't know that just dismissing an idea like this out of hand because of cost or things that you dealt with 40 years ago, 50 years ago is the way to go.

Look, the president and his team have a lot of unconventional ideas that are very successful at the end of the day that we have seen in other avenues. And so it could be that case with this as well. I don't -- we just don't know enough yet, right? We don't know what the costs are going to be and the hill -- or the challenges that they're going to have to solve to get this facility back open and running.

But that doesn't mean that should just be dismissed out of hand. I think they're doing the diligence and the legwork with A.G. Bondi and the secretary there today to see how real this can be.

JIMENEZ: Just the beginning of a potential process.

Chad Wolf, appreciate you taking the time. Thanks for being here.

All right, meanwhile, a brand-new CNN poll is out that shows Democrats are a lot more energized than Republicans about voting in next year's midterm elections, but there's another key takeaway. Democrats may also have an advantage with independents.

But the party's ability to capitalize on that energy, different story.

KEILAR: That's because of deeply negative perceptions of not just the party itself, but also with the current crop of Democratic lawmakers.

CNN's Phil Mattingly is here to break down the numbers on this.

All right, Phil, let's look first at voter enthusiasm. What are you seeing?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Democrats are excited about the possibility of voting. In fact, they're so excited, they're 10 points more excited than they were in October of 2024.

Now, you take a look at the numbers, Democrats, Democratic-leaning voters, 72 percent are motivated to vote in the midterms. That's up 10 points, again, from the presidential election, Republicans, they're down about 17 points. And, look, we all know this well, this kind of cycle, incumbency, immediately after an election, oftentimes the enthusiasm drops and drops a significant amount for Republicans.

What's interesting from the Democratic side is not that their enthusiasm is quite high right now and higher than in a presidential year. It's when you look at the favorability numbers of the party itself right now. If you look at the favorable numbers for Democrats right now, 28 percent favorability rating.

That's not great. That's like Northwestern football.

JIMENEZ: Hey, hey, hey.

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JIMENEZ: This is a P.G. program here, P.G. program.

KEILAR: Gentleman.

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MATTINGLY: But Republicans aren't exactly that much better. They're at 33 percent right now in terms of favorable, 51 percent unfavorable.

The Democratic number is the lowest in the history of CNN polling at this point in time. So that is not good. And the reason I think people are trying to figure out is, OK, what? What's driving that when you actually dig into the crosstabs, into the numbers a little bit deeper?

It's actually Democrats who are driving the unfavorability of the Democratic Party. Democrats and Democratic-leaning voters, only 58 percent approval of their party. Republicans at 76 percent right now. That's really driving the discontent. There is enthusiasm. They're just not sure who exactly within the party they're enthusiastic about, apparently.

JIMENEZ: So if it's not their party, I mean, what about third parties here? Obviously, Elon Musk has talked about one. Andrew Yang has been connected to one. I mean, just where are they there?

MATTINGLY: So, broadly, as has been the case for the better part of a couple of decades, Americans like the concept of a third party. And that hasn't changed. If you look at independents specifically, 72 percent favor the idea of a third party. I think, overall, it's about 67 percent, which is pretty consistent

over the course of the last couple of decades. Now, when it comes to the third parties that have been proposed, specific to Elon Musk, I'm going to shock you here. And I'm actually going to crib from a great line from a Harry Enten story, which you know I don't like to compliment Harry. It's painful for me, but it was a good line...

JIMENEZ: Yes. Yes.

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MATTINGLY: ... which is one of the most unpopular figures in U.S. politics is starting a third party. It is probably going to fail.

Analysis is why we go to Harry, Harry's brilliance. Elon Musk's favorability right now is in the bottom tier, I would say. But what's most fascinating about it is where Republicans are. In March, according to CNN polling, his favorability was 72 percent within the Republican Party, now postwar, nuclear war, I guess you could say, with the president, it's down to 44 percent.

So what is the view from independents? Again, 72 percent who like the idea of a third party, about an Elon Musk third party? Thirty percent favor the idea of it itself. Again, conceptually, people love the idea of having another choice, Elon Musk maybe not the face that those individuals would like to see at this point in time.

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We will see how it plays out. Money might change some things.

JIMENEZ: Favorability right around the level of the average Ohio State fan.

Phil Mattingly...

MATTINGLY: Super high.

KEILAR: Guys.

JIMENEZ: ... I appreciate it.

MATTINGLY: Sorry, you're saying national championship, Ohio State Buckeyes? Is that what you're saying?

JIMENEZ: Hey, hey, hey, look, that's...

KEILAR: We're going to arm-wrestle in the commercial break.

JIMENEZ: That's a discussion for a different...

KEILAR: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

JIMENEZ: Phil, good to see you, as always. MATTINGLY: Guys, appreciate it.

JIMENEZ: All right, coming up: Major cuts to public broadcasting just got a step closer to passing. And the NPR CEO says those cuts could be a real risk to public safety. She joins us live.

KEILAR: And President Trump says coke is changing its American recipe, but what's the beverage giant saying about that?

Stay with CNN.

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JIMENEZ: Let's get you to some of the other headlines we're watching at this hour.

A day after ordering attacks on government buildings in Damascus, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel will continue to act as necessary. Netanyahu claims the Syrian government had violated two key policies laid out by Israel, the demilitarization of an area south of Damascus and the protection of the minority Druze people who live there. The Syrian government rejects Israel's declaration of a demilitarized zone.

Also, the Department of Justice is seeking a one-day jail sentence for a former Louisville police officer convicted for his role in the botched raid that killed Breonna Taylor in 2020. Brett Hankison was found guilty last year on one count of abusing Taylor's civil rights after firing several shots through her bedroom window.

But in a new filing, the DOJ argues Hankison did not shoot Ms. Taylor and is not otherwise responsible for her death. Hankison's sentencing is on Monday.

And a month's worth of rain drenched the Kansas City area overnight, look at this video, triggering dangerous flash flooding. This video shows heavy rainwater flowing down streets in Shawnee, Kansas. According to the fire department, rescue crews conducted 18 water rescues for stranded motorists overnight. Thankfully, no injuries have been reported -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Today, Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee walked out of a key hearing in protest as Republicans advance the nomination of Emil Bove, President Trump's former personal attorney.

He is currently the number three official at the Justice Department, but Bove has been nominated for a lifetime federal judgeship. He's come under fire from Democrats for some of his more controversial decisions at the DOJ. Here's the moment when Dems walked out of this hearing.

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SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): Appeals to your integrity. With all appeals to past jurisdiction and past precedent, why are you doing this? This is outrageous.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a kangaroo court. That's what we have here, Mr. Chairman.

BOOKER: This is wrong to violate your own rules.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill with the details.

Manu, clearly, they wanted to drum up some attention on this hearing and they certainly got it. Tell us more about what happened.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they certainly got it.

And they were trying to essentially raise a fuss over Emil Bove's positions and some of his record from the past, and, in particular, some of the actions in which they have been raising concerns about, as he had led the investigation into the January 6 prosecutors. He had pushed for charges against Eric Adams to be dropped.

He had -- as well as the whistle-blower had come out and said that Bove had told his team to ignore court orders of migrants that were being sent on planes to El Salvador. Now, Bove has denied a lot of those allegations, particularly the ones -- some of the ones that the Democrats have raised over him.

And Republicans have furiously defended him. But what you saw right there was an effort by the Democrats to essentially try to deny a quorum and say that the vote to advance this nomination to the Senate floor was illegitimate that some of the Republicans are simply pushing back against.

But after they walked out of this open session, those same Democrats came out and they teed off on the GOP.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOOKER: We can't even debate a controversial judge, a judge that has been accused by a whistle-blower of lying to the United States Senate, of lying to this committee. And so this is just a frustrating day. This is what I think is going on right here, is Donald Trump has the Republican Party in the Senate in its thrall.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): I haven't seen anything like it in 15 years in the United States Senate, just overriding roughshod the rules of the committee to silence members in this way on nominees for lifetime appointments.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: But, ultimately, this nomination was approved by a 12-0 vote, meaning Republicans all voted in favor of this.

And Chuck Grassley, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, pushing back on the claims by Democrats that this has not been done before. In fact, he points to the situation that happened in 2023 in which Dick Durbin, then the chairman, the Democrat chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, they say took a similar action against Republicans.

So that's going to be an issue that they're going to debate as this nomination goes to the Senate floor. And, of course, Bove can get that position as a lifetime appointee in the Third Circuit and if he gets all but three Republicans to support him. He can afford three defections. And if there are four of them, that mean they would have to scuttle a nomination.

But at the moment Republican leaders are confident he will get the votes to get the job -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, we will be watching for those next steps.

Manu Raju, thank you.

Still to come: the future of public radio and television uncertain, as lawmakers move closer to major cuts.

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We will talk to the CEO of NPR next.

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KEILAR: Before the day is done, both PBS television and NPR, National Public Radio, could be without any federal funding for the first time since President Lyndon Johnson signed the Public Broadcasting Act into law in 1967.

Overnight, the Senate passed the DOGE spending cuts bill along partisan lines by a 51-48 margin. Only two Republican senators, Susan Collins of Maine and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, voted against the measure, citing concerns over how the cuts will affect smaller rural communities.

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