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Harvard Fights to Restore More Than $2 Billion in Funds Frozen by Trump; Delta Regional Jet Pilot Reports Close Call With B-52 Bomber; "The Cosby Show" Star Malcolm-Jamal Warner Dies at Age 54. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired July 21, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:01:09]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": A close call and an apology, how a Delta regional jet pilot says he was forced to make a hard turn to avoid a B-52 bomber. Plus, it's a $2 billion fight, arguments begin in Harvard University's lawsuit against the Trump Administration, and we are live in Boston.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": And the murder of a Berkeley professor in Greece, the victim's ex-wife was back in court today to say she had nothing to do with it. We are following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to "CNN News Central."

Up first, just a terrifying mid-air close call, very close call under investigation right now involving a B-52 bomber and a passenger jet. This in the skies over North Dakota. The pilot for SkyWest, which is a Delta regional carrier, says he was forced to make a hard turn to avoid colliding with a massive bomber after being cleared for approach by the control tower.

KEILAR: And there's video --

SANCHEZ: He was told it was OK.

KEILAR: Yeah, there's video of this captured, or at least, part of the flight of the B-52 bomber captured by someone in the crowd at the state fair. It shows it doing a flyover at about the same time as SkyWest Flight 3788 was landing in the city of Minot. The Air Force confirms the flyover, says it is looking into the matter. A passenger on the SkyWest flight spoke with CNN today, describing the moment the plane turned sharply.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MONICA GREENE, SKYWEST PASSENGER: It was such a hard U-turn to where we were going kind of straight and then went pretty sideways. I'd be looking out the window and just see straight grass. I wouldn't be seeing the horizon anymore because we were so sideways.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: That passenger, Monica Greene, also recorded the pilot's announcement when they landed safely. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sorry about the aggressive maneuver. It caught me by surprise. This is not normal at all. I don't know why they didn't give us a heads up because the Air Force base does have radar and nobody said, Hey, there's also a B-52 in the path or anything. Long story short, it was not fun, but I do apologize for it and thank you for understanding.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Joining us now, CNN Transportation Analyst, former Inspector General for the Department of Transportation, Mary Schiavo. Mary, always good to have you in these circumstances. And it's interesting listening to that pilot's recording because he actually gives a lot of information, including that the tower gave him no warning about a giant B-52 going quite close it seems to approach on a civilian airport. I mean, does that make any sense to you that you would've a flyover for an air show that close to a passenger airport?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN TRANSPORTATION ANALYST: No, but in a nutshell, in a few seconds, that has summarized the problem that's faced in a lot of aviation locations around the country. You've got military operations and civilian operations, and there are two sets of actors. First of all, we'll go with the communication side. You've got the commercial jet, which was handed off from air traffic control for approach from Minneapolis. It contacted the tower and it got clearance to land. That says it owns that airspace. That's what it means in aviation parlance.

But then you've got this military plane doing the flyover and their military base is just north of the civilian aircraft, but they weren't talking to the civilian tower. Hopefully, they were talking to their own military controllers, but the two of them never communicated. Then we go to the equipment side. Yes, one plane could see the other if they're similarly equipped and if they have the equipment to be able to see each other. And we've talked a lot about since the DCA mid-air of something called ADSB, the Automatic Dependent Surveillance Broadcast.

But if both planes don't have it, for example, the military plane may not have had it and may not have had it turned on. Even if it did, it has different equipment. So then, the planes can't communicate either. And this is a problem that has been repeated many times over, not just at the DCA mid-air. There was one in South Carolina where a military airport is also civilian airport. We had mid-air 10 years ago here.

KEILAR: And this is a time, obviously Mary, when there needs to be a sensitivity to how military aircraft are operating around passenger planes, after what happened here in DC not long ago. But then, even after that Black Hawk ran into that jet here in Washington, you saw other questionable incidents involving another helicopter. And I just wonder if you think that there has been the reckoning that needs to happen when it comes to this issue. [14:05:00]

SCHIAVO: That's what's so shocking. I would've thought that the DCA mid-air was the biggest wakeup call in the last two decades because it's a terrible, terrible tragedy, the worst we've had in over two decades. But they still don't seem to be coordinating. And I wish the two secretaries, the transportation and defense, would lay down the law each to the other. But unfortunately, with the lack of communication, with different systems on the aircraft, with different communication systems, and with the pilots not hearing the same communications, same problem in DCA, the pilots did not hear the communications of each other.

So when a military aircraft is in that civilian airspace, particularly when a plane has been given clearance to land, they own that airspace. That it is just inexcusable. And this is just too many close calls. And like I said, that DCA should have been the wakeup call of the century.

SANCHEZ: Yeah. And a flyover is not actually necessary, right? You know, it's not like necessary military ops. It's a good thing. But that raises another question.

KEILAR: Time for Pete Hegseth and Sean Duffy to have lunch, I think. Mary, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

SANCHEZ: A crucial hearing between the Trump Administration and the nation's oldest university has just wrapped up. Harvard suing the administration after the White House froze more than $2 billion in federal funding, including health research funding for the school. Harvard says the freeze is now affecting more than 950 research projects. The White House claims it froze the funds because Harvard failed to confront anti-Semitism on campus. CNN's Betsy Klein joins us now from Boston.

And it was interesting, Betsy, to hear the judge in this hearing saying, OK, I get the questions about treatment of protests on campus, but how does that relate, for instance, to healthcare funding? How did the hearing go?

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER AND WRITER: Right, exactly. This case really marks a flashpoint in an overall fight between academic freedom, federal funding, campus oversight. It's also a fight that the Trump Administration and White House believes is a winning political issue for them. So U.S. District Judge, Allison Burroughs, she's an Obama appointee, she heard arguments in this case from a lawyer for Harvard University as well as a lawyer for the Trump Department of Justice. A guy named Michael Velchik, himself a Harvard alumnus.

The Trump Administration back in April, froze more than $2.2 billion, targeting about 950 research projects at Harvard. They say that this is about combating anti-Semitism which has risen on campus in the aftermath of the October 7th Hamas attacks on Israel. Harvard now arguing today that this marked a "blatant and unrepentant violation of their First Amendment rights, as well as Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, which prohibits discrimination." They also said that this marked, "arbitrary and capricious cuts" that were essentially untethered to the reality of the steps they've taken to address anti-Semitism on campus.

Now, the Trump Administration lawyer framed this as a contract to dispute. He said the Trump Administration has the right to terminate a federal contract and that Harvard simply didn't read the fine print that the federal government at any time can decide when some federal funding isn't aligned with agency priorities. But Judge Burroughs pressed the Department of Justice repeatedly. She said, I'm Jewish, I'm American. But Harvard certainly has made missteps on anti- Semitism. They have taken steps to address that.

But she really questioned what the relationship between cutting cancer funding is to combating anti-Semitism. She said, cutting off funding, in a way, that one could argue hurts Americans and Jews. Velchik responded that the government vehemently disagrees with that and believes that combating anti-Semitism is a priority and that they have the right to act here. A major theme here as well was urgency. Harvard says they want this resolved before early September. That's when some of these funding cuts could be made more permanent.

Judge Burroughs said she hadn't made a decision, but did plan to rule as soon as possible. We are also just now getting some reaction from President Trump who's taking aim at this lawyer here. He calls her a total disaster and he said, when she rules against us, we will immediately appeal and win. So, the president clearly pre-judging the outcome there.

SANCHEZ: Listen, and he regularly publicly attacks judges. He's made that a new normal in this administration. Betsy Klein, thanks so much. Brianna?

KEILAR: With us now to talk more about this lawsuit is Ryan Doerfler. He is a Harvard Law Professor. Professor, this fight, of course, started in the spring. It's now mid-July. How crucial is a resolution to this funding fight before the school year begins?

[14:10:00]

RYAN DOERFLER, HARVARD LAW PROFESSOR: I think it's incredibly important. I mean, right now, Harvard is reasoning through how to deal with this new financial landscape, which is impacted not just by the funds being contested here, but also the new budget, the Big Beautiful Bill that affects university finances, not just at Harvard, but around the country. And so, this is a real moment of restructuring. And so, resolving this -- this particular uncertainty is incredibly important.

KEILAR: Harvard says it's combating anti-Semitism on campus, but also argues that defunding research has nothing to do with anti-Semitism. Do you think that there is any funding pressure the administration should be able to put on schools when it comes to anti-Semitism?

DOERFLER: Well, there is -- to the extent that anti-Semitism is specifically protected by federal law, it is through Title VI, which is one of the statutes that is at issue in this litigation. And Title VI, in addition to extending substantive coverage to at least some forms of anti-Semitism, I will say that the question of what constitutes anti-Semitism for purposes of Title VI is itself a complex legal question. But even assuming for sake of argument, suppose that there were some incidents or that the government at least alleged that there were incidents of anti-Semitism on Harvard's campus that it failed to address, Title VI articulates a rigorous procedure for the government to pursue those claims.

It presents Harvard an opportunity to make its case for why either it did meet its burden at the time, or instead that it has made changes since the initial incidents. And so, again, that process is articulated in federal law. It is articulated in Title VI. And here, we see the administration completely ignoring that process, instead just declaring that in its view, without any hearing, without any opportunity for Harvard to present its case, that it believes Harvard has dealt inadequately with anti-Semitism on campus and has taken funds away. And that's simply not how this is supposed to work under federal law.

KEILAR: Earlier this month, The Harvard Crimson reported that websites for Harvard College Centers serving minority and LGBTQ students and women disappeared. The White House welcomed that development. They viewed it as a goodwill gesture that one official described as "good news." Do you view that as a goodwill gesture by the school? How do you see it?

DOERFLER: I guess, I hesitate to characterize appeasement of the Trump Administration's attack on universities in terms of goodwill. I would suggest that that is an effort to placate the administration. But I will say that President Trump and his other officials in the administration have used this phrase, illegal DEI, in an incredibly sweeping manner. Now, to the extent that this DEI programs are "illegal," what the president is pointing to is the Supreme Court's decision in SFFA against Harvard, right? The decision that said that affirmative action in university admissions was presumptively unlawful.

But, the scope of the SFFA versus Harvard decision is at least somewhat narrow, right? So, the SFFA versus Harvard does not declare that universities can't make efforts to ensure that various minority students, women students, members of vulnerable populations feel at ease on campus in the same way that other students feel at ease. So, what I would suggest is that although I do agree that that is an effort to reach out to the Trump Administration, I would suggest that it's a disturbing one.

KEILAR: Professor Ryan Doerfler, thank you so much for joining us on a really critical day. We appreciate it.

DOERFLER: Thank you.

KEILAR: We do have some breaking news, actor Malcolm-Jamal Warner, best known for his role as Theo Huxtable on "The Cosby Show," has died at the young age of 54.

SANCHEZ: Sad to see, maybe like you, I watched that show religiously -- (CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: I love that show and his character.

SANCHEZ: For sure. It was an iconic show in the country at the time. Brian Balthazar is an entertainment journalist. He joins us now, based on what little we know at this time, he died in a drowning incident while on vacation with his family in Costa Rica. What more are you learning?

BRIAN BALTHAZAR, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: Well, that's, that's exactly it. We just know that he had been swimming in the ocean in Costa Rica and overtaken by the ocean and passed away. And now, we are suddenly and unexpectedly reflecting on what has been a pretty remarkable career and a remarkable human being who's left a lasting impact.

KEILAR: Yeah, he certainly has. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Because I think there are so many people who are looking at this news, who are feeling this, because it's about a lot here. I mean, America watched him grow up on TV.

BALTHAZAR: Right.

KEILAR: He had this really groundbreaking role and he brought such warmth to it.

[14:15:00]

This is really tough.

BALTHAZAR: Right. I mean, this is a guy from 1984 to 1992, was on one of the most popular, if not the most popular actually at the time, television shows playing a teenager. And Obviously, the legacy of that show has had its complications since, the scandal surrounding Bill Cosby. But Malcolm had said in the past, he's extremely proud of what they accomplished on that show, both in the world of comedy, but for the black community. And he spent much of his career actually trying to advance narratives and conversations about life as a black man and the black community.

And so, he -- while he did continue to work and act in several series following "The Cosby Show," that's the one that really left an incredible impression. Everyone will think of him as Theo, but he went on to do great things. He won a Grammy Award. He was an Emmy nominee. He had a podcast.

Interestingly, he's one of the few actors, he actually kept the name of his wife and children private. He really felt like he wanted to keep his personal life personal. And that's why there's some limitation to what we know right now, as he really valued the personal life that he had with his family and wanted to keep that separate from the very public life one has as a celebrity.

SANCHEZ: Yeah. He said, about the show, the fact that "The Cosby Show" for Black America and White America alike finally legitimized the black middle class. So, it was groundbreaking on American television at the time. Elizabeth Wagmeister, CNN Entertainment Correspondent, joining us now. And goodness, this just sounds like a heartbreaking tragedy, on vacation with his family, drowns in the ocean.

Elizabeth Wagmeister, CNN Entertainment Correspondent: Absolutely. This is a horrible tragedy, Jim. I just got off the phone with a source who was very emotional, as you could understand, and have confirmed that he did in fact die after a drowning accident in Costa Rica. I have confirmed that he was on a vacation with his family, as my good friend Brian Balthazar just said. He was a very private individual, which of course is rare in the celebrity world. So, we don't know much about his family, but what we know right now is that there is a grieving family because at the age of 54, gone way too soon.

And I just want to say on a personal note that I had met Malcolm-Jamal Warner a few years back. You may remember, the Emmy Award-winning series, "The People v. O. J. Simpson." Well, he played the individual who drove that white Bronco. It was a huge role for him. And when they were on the award season campaign, I met Malcolm-Jamal Warner and he was just so, so lovely. You would never know that this is someone who was one of the biggest TV stars really in the world, coming off of "The Cosby Show." He was so lovely, and this is just shocking news. And I could tell you that to those around him, that this is incredibly shocking, a horrible unforeseen accident.

KEILAR: Yeah, it really is. And Brian, as you mentioned, he's a Grammy-winning musician for -- and we should note, for his song in 2015, he won for the song "Jesus Children." He was a man of faith as well. For someone who was private, he did speak candidly about some important topics to himself, family, and his role when it came to being a black actor and a black man in that portrayal.

BALTHAZAR: He did. He wanted to make sure -- one of the things he thought was so important about "The Cosby Show" in particular was that up until that show, there were so many, what you could only call stereotypical black roles and stereotypical black families, often portrayed as low income. Here, we had a lawyer and a doctor as parents, kids that were setting examples, so people could turn on the TV and see themselves. And he was really proud of that. And again, like, he wasn't so quick even in the light of the Bill Cosby scandal, just throw that under the bus because he was so -- he thought there was such importance to that.

He then went on to direct music videos, and he was on dozens and dozens of guest appearances, widely regarded in Hollywood as someone who's very easy to work with and very levelheaded, with a good heart and a good spirit. And to your point, "Jesus Children" won a Grammy, which a lot of people don't know. He was a very multifaceted person and he didn't want to limit himself to acting. So he directed, he had podcasts. He was very much about acting and -- I'm sorry, about speaking about the black community and the narratives that they face and the struggles that they face in overcoming them.

SANCHEZ: Yeah. It was a different time too, because a popular show today might have a few million viewers in the '80s and '90s, and this was a, if not the top rated show for a number of seasons, had tens of millions of viewers.

[14:20:00]

So, it was a cultural touchstone, right? I mean, and you describe how groundbreaking --

BALTHAZAR: Exactly.

SANCHEZ: -- it was for black Americans. But this was something the big portion of the country sat down. I think it was on Thursday nights, I was one of them, and watched this show religiously.

BALTHAZAR: Yes. And if NBC wanted one of their other shows to succeed, they would stack it on either side of "The Cosby Show." The anchor of must see TV on a Thursday night, 9:00 p.m. was "The Cosby Show." And if they wanted another show to be seen, they would put it on either side of that show because people went home, they turned on the television and they watched that show.

SANCHEZ: Yeah.

KEILAR: Yeah. Brian Balthazar, if you can stand by for us, along with our Elizabeth Wagmeister, we are just learning that Malcolm-Jamal Warner, who famously played Theo Huxtable on "The Cosby Show," has passed away at the young age of 54. He was on vacation with his family in Costa Rica and drowned. We are learning that from one source. We will get more information and have that for you after the break.

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[14:25:52]

KEILAR: Malcolm-Jamal Warner dead at the age of 54 on a drowning accident while he was vacationing with his family in Costa Rica. Joining us now, Bomani Jones, host of "The Right Time with Bomani Jones" podcast and entertainment journalist, Segun Oduolowu, to share their thoughts there. And Bomani, if I could begin with you, of course, it was difficult and he spoke quite publicly about this, Malcolm-Jamal Warner, when Bill Cosby was accused, later convicted of multiple cases of sexual assault.

He was asked about it in 2015 interview, and he said, he's one of my mentors and he is been very influential, played a big role in my life as a friend and mentor. Just as his painful to hear any woman talk about sexual assault, whether true or not, it's just as painful to watch my friend and mentor go through this. How did he handle, in the years since he left the show, just that the larger Bill Cosby controversy and scandal?

BOMANI JONES, HOST OF "THE RIGHT TIME WITH BOMANI JONES" PODCAST: I mean, I guess you would argue that he handled it about as well as he could because it's not like what Bill Cosby did is something that he himself could answer for. And it's got to be super tricky, not only because Cosby was kind of a vehicle for the fame and what his life ultimately became, but also because specifically the vehicle that they were attached to was so attached to the idea of wholesomeness, and that this guy is like everybody's dad. And then you find out that your dad perhaps might be a terrible person. That's a rough goal for anybody.

And so, I noticed for all the members of that cast, for us, Bill Cosby was just kind of a -- he is not somebody we knew in general. He is just an idea. And so for those people, you're reckoning with the person you thought you know, the person that was actually there, and the idea that happened to be a vehicle for everything that happened in your life. So, it's kind of hard for me to evaluate how anybody would or would not have handled it, because it's such a particular situation.

SANCHEZ: Yeah.

KEILAR: Yeah. Segun, this is -- I mean, we all know Malcolm-Jamal Warner for this role, right? But he also was so accomplished as a Grammy-winning musician. He had a recent podcast. He spoke out about being a black man in society and what that meant, and that's a voice that's needed. And that portrayal that he brought was groundbreaking. Can you talk a little bit about the mark that he's leaving here as I -- it's just incredibly sad when we think of what a young age he died at.

SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: Yeah. The passing of Malcolm-Jamal Warner is horrific. And, I know Elizabeth Wagmeister and one of the entertainment reporters that you had on before. But culturally, and I think Bomani and myself can speak to this, this is like the loss of a family member in that, look, I'm the child of immigrants. And my dad is a PhD; my mom is a therapist. Malcolm-Jamal Warner was the first time I saw somebody that looked like me and my brothers on television, that my parents could relate to.

The conversations that he would have on screen with his television dad were the same conversations about going to college and cleaning your room that I was having with my father. So, his voice as a black man on screen and then afterwards, just the man he was, the smile, the artist, the Grammy you mentioned. He was also on "Def Poetry Jam." He just -- there was an aura about him of just class and grace. And for me, at my age, it's like losing a family member because he -- we grew up with him. Like, I grew up watching this kid go through the same things that I was going through while he's on camera.

And so, culturally, his passing is so tremendous to our community as black men because he was a father himself. Like, he embodied the things that maybe Bill Cosby it turned out wasn't, but Malcolm-Jamal Warner was those things. He kept his life private. And so again, I'm almost at a loss for words because when I saw the news, I could not believe it. 54 is not only so young, but what he meant to me growing up and to a great many of us, to see something like that represent -- to see us represented is so powerful. It's definitely a tragic loss, not just for the entertainment community --