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Tom Verni is Interviewed about the Kohberger Trial; Trump Administration Moves to Deport Children; David Moon is Interviewed about Redrawing Congressional Maps; Fertility Clinic Bombing Heroes; Deadly Flood Climate Crisis. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired July 24, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:33:21]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: New overnight, Idaho police have released hundreds of files containing new details of the gruesome murders of four college students in 2022. Now the documents are coming out just hours after their admitted killer received a life sentence without the possibility of parole. Some of broadly what we are learning new today is that police never found a connection between Bryan Kohberger and the four students', friends, that he killed. They never found the murder weapon. And we may never get those answers because police say he wiped his devices before they could get much off of them.

As for the victims and the crime scene, police described an intense struggle at the home in Idaho. Kaylee Goncalves was stabbed so many times, one officer said that she was unrecognizable as her facial structure was extremely damaged. Families of the victims made brutally emotional statements in court Wednesday. The judge also had sharp remarks for Bryan Kohberger, saying that he created a nightmare for the victims' families.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE STEVEN HIPPLER, IDAHO FOURTH DISTRICT COURT: Any person who is a parent defines themselves foremost as such. It is their existence and purpose of being. And it has been stolen from these parents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining us right now is former NYPD detective, law enforcement consultant, Tom Verni.

It's good to see you, Tom.

I wanted to ask your take on some of what is coming out in these new police documents, what these officers reported seeing, to get your analysis of what it means.

[08:35:03]

One of the victims, Kaylee Goncalves, had told her roommates, this is -- came out in interviews afterward with the roommates, that she had saw a man that she didn't recognize staring at her when she took her dog outside. And another time, residents came home to find the door open and loose on its hinges.

But then you have the police still say they have never been able to establish a connection between Kohberger and the suspects, why he chose them. What do you make of this?

TOM VERNI, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Good morning, Kate. It's been a minute.

And, you know, I was on CNN when this case first broke a couple of years ago. And, first of all, I'd like to again express my sincere condolences to the family and friends of this horrific, horrific crime. I mean, I imagine sending your kids to -- to school, to college and believing that they're safe and then to be victimized, brutally victimized, by, you know, this -- this -- some kind of a psychopath with -- with, you know, the -- the motive still unclear, right? You know, because of the fact that he wiped his devices clean shows that, you know, that -- that indicates some, you know, like a criminal intent to sort of distance himself from these crimes.

But -- and, unfortunately, not -- in some cases you just don't -- you'll never get that answer, right? We hope to -- for him to say, OK, well, I did this because I saw her in the street and I made a pass at her and she, you know, she blew me off and it made me angry, so I stabbed her, you know, three dozen times. And, you know, so that -- that gives you some sort of like, oh, OK, well, you know, now we have a reason as to why he sort of snapped and indiscriminately just started killing people.

So, that would be the hope, right, that -- that we would come across some sort of evidence. And maybe that evidence still has yet to present itself. You know, these cases, even though they're -- they have now solved and now he's going to jail and will rot there for the rest of his miserable life, you know, there still may be some evidence that comes across at some point that gives us that sort of closure, that connection, that -- that -- where it makes sense to us, as logical thinking people, as to why someone would do something so horrific.

BOLDUAN: Well, and --

VERNI: But at this point, we still don't have that.

BOLDUAN: We still don't. And -- and it -- and from the police documents, you've got these disturbing details of what people who encountered Bryan Kohberger, how they basically saw red flags in him. You have a woman who connected with him on Tinder who said that she was so disturbed when she was communicating with him that she cut off communications because -- after he asked her how she thought -- what were -- what she thought would be the worst way to -- worst ways to die, which, you know, speaks to just the mind of this person that none of us really ever want to get into.

VERNI: Yes. BOLDUAN: But also you have the -- you have police saying that Kohberger completely shut down after being asked about the Idaho murders during his first interview with detectives after he was arrested in Pennsylvania. I mean, as a former detective, you know how important those -- that -- that approach and that setup and that conversation is. And then you have him shutting down immediately.

VERNI: Yes, well, I think that goes -- speak -- speaks volumes about his -- his mental, you know, state, right? You'll have some perpetrators that know the jig is up. You know, they've been caught red-handed. There's, you know, there's enough evidence, corroborating evidence, against him, probable cause to -- to now haul him in, and they realize that the, you know, their day is done.

And some of them may just spill the beans and kind of spill their guts. It's, you know, give us, again, these reasons to try to justify, in their minds, why the actions that they took were so necessary. In his case, you know, that didn't happen, right? You know, he sort of just clammed up, which is not uncommon, especially when you're dealing with such a horrific type of crime as this, you know, it's hard to get into the -- the minds, you know, criminal profilers do this all the time, where they try to get into the minds of someone like this, trying to make sense of a senseless act. And sometimes they're -- they're -- just you -- you just can't get there.

You know, look, my -- my hope is that we will get there in this case at some point. But, you know, the reality is, based on his, you know, his behavior to date, there's nothing to suggest that he's willing to -- to kind of give that up, if he even can make that sort of, you know, conclusion to himself.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Tom -- Tom Verni, good to see you. Thank you for coming in.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, a CNN exclusive. The Trump administration moves to rapidly deport migrant children.

And then the driver who was punched in the face at a Jacksonville traffic stop is speaking out for the first time.

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[08:44:06]

BOLDUAN: This -- exclusive reporting this morning that CNN is learning about the new push by the Trump administration to quickly deport unaccompanied migrant children. Sources tell CNN, federal agents are now asking migrant teens if they want to voluntarily leave the country. And this is a change from what had long been protocol for how to handle these children.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez has this exclusive reporting, and she's joining us now.

Priscilla, tell us more of what you're learning.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, there has been an effort underway by the administration to target unaccompanied migrant children. And it's twofold. On the one hand, senior Trump officials have said they are trying to track those who they say were not well placed during the Biden administration, though there has been disputes to that claim. But they are also moving them quickly through deportation proceedings. And this is just the latest effort.

So, I've been told by officials that this week U.S. Customs and Border Protection personnel were directed to ask migrant teens if they want to voluntarily depart the country.

[08:45:07]

Now remember, U.S. Customs and Border Protection is no -- is no longer only on the U.S.-Mexico border. They are also doing enforcement operations across the country. So, as they encounter unaccompanied migrant children, unaccompanied again because of how they came across the border initially, they are to ask them if they want to leave the country.

Now, this is where this is different from before. Before, on the U.S.- Mexico border, if there were children from, say, Mexico or Canada, contiguous countries to the United States, well, they would be asked that and then swiftly sent back to their country. So, they really wouldn't spend any time in the United States. This has been part of the law.

But there is a law, the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act, that gives special protections to children who cross the U.S.- Mexico border alone. And then they come into the country. They're often placed with family members. But they're still considered unaccompanied because of the way they cross. Now they'll be in a position where CBP would ask them if they want to go back. And if they do, they'll send them over to ICE, and ICE will swiftly deport them.

But this is so concerning to advocates and attorneys, because these kids don't often really understand what's happening. Some of the teenagers that I have met and who have been unaccompanied, they don't have the education level of a teenager, say, in the United States. So, this is where this can get quite complicated. And that's where officials are concerned about this too, at least the ones that I'm talking to.

Now, in a -- in a statement to CNN, DHS said the following, quote, "this is a longstanding practice that was used by previous administrations to prioritize getting children back to the safety of a parent or legal guardian in their home country. The only change pursuant to the big, beautiful bill is expanding this option to return home to UACs, unaccompanied alien children, from additional countries beyond Mexico and Canada."

It's that part, Kate, that's doing a lot there. Yes, this has been true for those in Mexico and Canada. It has not been true from these kids, from many other countries, which really do make up the majority of those who have come into the United States.

BOLDUAN: Yes, that -- exactly what you said is the important part that was left unsaid there.

Priscilla, great reporting, as always. Thank you so much.

John.

BERMAN: All right, new this morning, a Democratic lawmaker vowing to fight fire with fire. Texas Republicans are moving to redraw congressional maps in the middle of the decade, which is very rare, under pressure from President Trump, in order to add Republican seats. Now, a Democratic lawmaker in Maryland is introducing a measure to retaliate if any state does what Texas is moving to do.

With us now is Maryland's house majority leader, David Moon.

Thank you so much for being with us.

Just explain the measure that you're pushing here.

DAVID MOON (D), MARYLAND STATE HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: I mean, look, right now President Trump is once again asking state Republican leaders to find votes for him. And so, you've got multiple states, Texas, Missouri, Ohio and Florida that are talking about breaking from the norm of conducting redistricting only once every ten years. So, we are not going to just sit back and watch as Trump and Texas changes the rules in the middle of the game.

So, I've introduced a bill that's going to automatically trigger redrawing Maryland's congressional districts if and only if one of these other states draws their lines off schedule.

BERMAN: Just so people appreciate, in Texas, there are estimates that redrawing the maps there could pick -- gain Republican seats, like four or five, maybe as many as eight seats. In Maryland, you've got one Republican seat, I guess seven Democratic seats. So, how many -- how much difference would this really make?

MOON: Well, I think it's incumbent upon every other state, not just blue states, to get involved in this fight. I mean, Texas got away with this in 2003. They actually, you know, two decades ago did exactly this. They did a mid-decade redistricting. All the other states sat and watched baffled as this happened. And they got away with it because no one responded.

So, this time, I think, we can bring a toothpick to a gun fight. It's very clear that Trump's approval ratings are tanking. And so, it seems like the strategy they have now is to just keep redrawing the congressional boundaries until they get the result they want. So, we're not going to have this.

And so, again, in Maryland, if they do this, we are going to trigger an automatic redistricting of our state's congressional districts. And I know that Democratic leaders across the country are talking about the same thing. BERMAN: I do want to note that after the maps were redrawn, or when

you redrew the maps after the 2020 census, a judge actually threw out the Maryland map as an extreme gerrymander favoring Democrats. So how do you get around that?

MOON: We have -- so, number one, that case never went out to the state supreme court because the parties ended up settling and dropping it. But in Maryland, we also have the ability to put a map directly on the ballot and allow the voters to vote on it, in which case it would really sidestep any litigation about the substance of the map if it's actually just in our state constitution. So, there are ways, technically and legally, for this process to happen in Maryland.

[08:50:04]

In fact, in the past, we've had redistricting maps on the ballot.

BERMAN: Again, you know, it seems like you've thought a lot about this.

I'm also sure you've thought about the long-term implications here. You know, what are the long-term implications if every state that has a kind of single party control just is constantly redrawing and redrawing and redrawing maps?

MOON: Not good. I mean, look, my strong preference is that we don't do this. Texas and the other states should back down. I mean last time Trump went asking states to find votes, you actually saw a number of GOP officials from those states who had the courage to say no. That does not appear to be what's happening right now.

So again, my strong preference is that we not go down this road. But if Texas or any other state decides that we -- that they're going to do this, we have to defend ourselves. So, I kind of think it's all or nothing. If one state decides that they redistrict whenever they want, then all of the states have to redistrict whenever they want. And hopefully that might bring some sanity to Congress to finally do national independent redistricting.

BERMAN: Maryland House Majority Leader David Moon, great to see you this morning.

Thanks so much for joining us.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: On a Saturday morning in May, Palm Springs was rocked when a fertility clinic was bombed. In the crucial hours just after that explosion, first responders risked their lives to prevent further tragedy.

CNN's Stephanie Elam has this story of those going "Beyond the Call."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard and felt a very loud explosion. And looked and could see the mushroom cloud going up into the sky.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): On May 17th, a bomber, parked in front of the American Reproductive Center, or ARC, in Palm Springs, and detonated a device, killing himself and severely damaging several buildings.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The primary building collapsed. The building to the south of it looked like it had been in a war zone.

ELAM (voice over): Families depend on the clinic for fertility services.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's the only one for 100 miles.

ELAM (voice over): Emory Baucus (ph) conceived a daughter with the help of ARC, and was shocked to hear about the attack.

EMORY BAUCUS (ph): Initially my thought was, oh my gosh, my embryos. I still have two embryos frozen in storage. Are the embryos OK? I was such a devastating thought that it could all be gone.

ELAM (voice over): Palm Springs Deputy Fire Chief Greg Lyle and other first responders realized they should try to save the specimens inside.

GREG LYLE, DEPUTY FIRE CHIEF, PALM SPRINGS FIRE DEPARTMENT: If we don't do something, then the bad guy wins. There's hopes and dreams in there.

ELAM (voice over): Lyle went in, along with Chris Melzer (ph), an FBI agent, despite the dangers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The walls and the ceilings were hanging down. Water was running. There was electricity sparking.

ELAM (voice over): Once inside, they quickly realized the backup generators had failed.

LYLE: There was lots of tanks. There was lots of computer and important equipment that needed to be powered.

ELAM (voice over): They assembled a team of first responders to restore electricity to the building and incubators. And they didn't stop there. The next day, Lyle and Melzer climbed into another part of the facility to retrieve important paperwork.

LYLE: There were certain patients that were due to come in that following week, and these were the critical patients that were in this really narrow time of being successful with having children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They risked personal health and safety and life to bring hope to other people.

BAUCUS: There are always going. to be people who try to ruin happiness for others. But in the end, kindness and love is always going to win. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BOLDUAN: Stephanie Elam, thank you so much for bringing that to us.

Still ahead for us, an urgent warning for one community that may be in the path of the next major flood.

We'll be right back.

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[08:57:05]

BERMAN: All right, new this morning, the confirmed death toll in the Texas flooding has risen to 136. A new CNN analysis shows more communities across the country could be at serious risk for a similar flooding disaster.

CNN chief climate correspondent Bill Weir has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): On a hot day in the mountains of north Georgia, few places are more inviting than the Chattahoochee River. And tubing the hooch on days like this makes it easy to forget that the same waterway providing so much joy can take life and property in a flash. And when the Chattahoochee turned deadly 16 years back, it changed both Georgia and Laura Belanger, one of the top hydrologists in the south.

LAURA BELANGER, SENIOR SERVICE HYDROLOGIST, NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE: So, I am in the position I'm in today because of the September 2009 floods. I was young in my career at the time, and there were ten fatalities in the state of Georgia that left a lasting impression on me and wanting to kind of see how we could do better with our hydro services and getting those warnings out. That's what helped be a catalyst for those flash flood warnings to be included in wireless emergency alerts.

WEIR: Today in the tourist town of Helen, Georgia, those wireless alerts, weather radios, are the only sources of flash flood warning, because in a place like this, sirens might confuse people to run for low ground from a tornado instead of high ground from a flash flood.

It's been a long time since the water topped that ten-foot marker and hit 12 feet back in '67. And while there have been some swift water rescues in recent weeks, most people don't remember really high water.

That's the thing that struck me in Texas there is, it reminded me more of covering a tsunami in Japan where children were swept away while they debated what to do because no one could imagine the worst.

BELANGER: Yes.

WEIR: And when you're watching tubers here, you can't imagine that water turning deadly. BELANGER: It's hard to get, especially with how shallow it is at the

moment, it is hard to digest what a big amount of water coming through here would look like, and how its inundated.

WEIR (voice over): And she is especially worried about Enchanted Valley, just over the hills. The folks living in these permanent trailers sit smack dab on the Hiawassee River, next to one of the flashiest river gauges in the nation.

BELANGER: And so those are the places that keep me up at night. Regardless of the amount of readiness or preparation, the fact that there are people and property that close to the river, that's what the concern is.

The biggest question we get is when we see 100-year flood plain, and maybe the water level has risen to this point and someone says, oh, thank goodness we don't have to deal with this for 99 more years. And it happens. The reality is, what that means is that there's a one in 100 chance of occurrence in a given year of that happening again.

WEIR: Right. But that math is changing, right?

[09:00:00]

BELANGER: But that math changes over time as you see flooding occur more frequently.

WEIR: Yes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)