Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Watchdog has Evidence Hegseth Messages had Classified Info; Trump Administration Moving to Rapidly Deport Migrant Children; South Park Premiers Skewers President Trump and Paramount. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired July 24, 2025 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: We're learning some new details about Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's use of the Signal Messaging app to share military plans about a U.S. strike on Yemen back in March. Two sources familiar with an ongoing Pentagon review tell CNN that the independent inspector general has received evidence that the military plans shared in a group chat did in fact contain information that was classified at the time. The plans were reportedly marked secret, no foreign, meaning no foreign nationals should see it.

The group chat including details about the timing, choreography, and assets involved in the strikes, as CNN has previously reported. The new findings appear to undercut claims from top administration officials.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There was no classified information as I understand it.

TULSI GABBARD, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: There was no classified material that was shared.

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: No classified material was sent on this messaging thread.

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: There's no units, no locations, no routes, no flight paths, no sources, no methods, no classified information.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: A spokesperson for the Pentagon telling CNN in a statement that the department stands behind its previous statements.

Let's get some more perspective from Kevin Carroll. He's the former senior counselor to John Kelly when he was Homeland Security Secretary. Kevin has also served as a CIA case officer and he retired as deputy commander of the Army's National Ground Intelligence Center.

Kevin, great to have you here to put this into perspective.

[14:35:00] OK, just explain for the uninitiated as most people are, secret, no foreign, and what that means.

KEVIN CARROLL, FORMER SR. COUNSELOR TO FORMER DHS SECRETARY JOHN KELLY: So secret means that the sharing of the information with somebody who's not authorized to receive it would cause serious harm to the national security of the United States. And no foreign means that no foreign individual can read it, even if they're a member of say an allied military.

KEILAR: So presume, I mean, in the Signal chat, as far as Hegseth was aware at the time, he was just doing this with people who would be allowed to see this. But Signals obviously not for that purpose. And there was a reporter on the chat.

So what are the problems with doing that?

CARROLL: The problems are so many. One, he shouldn't be taking information from a classified system such as SIPRNet, which is what this likely came off of, which handles secret information, and putting it onto an unclassified system. He should also know who he's talking to before he starts talking about it.

And really, many of the people on that chat, even though they had security clearance, didn't have a need to know the exact time and location of an inbound airstrike.

KEILAR: OK, so in light of this, what we're learning here, how should we view his previous claim that he put no classified information on this chat?

CARROLL: As a big fat lie. I mean, either General Kurilla, the CENTCOM commander, who I served under in Afghanistan, who has 38 years of service and endless numbers of combat tours, doesn't understand what classified information is, or Major Hegseth of the National Guard understands it better than him. I'm going to go with General Kurilla.

KEILAR: What kind of issues does this raise to you about Hegseth's leadership? This is a pretty basic issue.

CARROLL: It's absolutely basic, and it raises the most serious questions about leadership, because it's bad for the morale of the force. It's bad for the good order and discipline of the force. If senior leaders are allowed to do things that we know, we all know, more junior service members are routinely prosecuted for, or at the minimum, have their careers ended for.

KEILAR: If this kind of information were just bandied about, disclosed in ways that we're not careful, what would happen, or more broadly?

CARROLL: Dead American pilots. You know, I mean, the Houthis have shown the ability to shoot down some very sophisticated drones of ours, which are more like a fighter aircraft. So if they knew exactly when U.S. aircraft were going to be over a target, they could have set up their air defenses to take it out. And more broadly, you know, foreign allies know that they cannot share

information with us and be confident that it'll be held in confidence, because you've got the Secretary of Defense and others going on Signal and just bandying the information about for no good reason at all.

KEILAR: Where do you see this going now, if you have a very credible report or finding or information coming to the IG showing, actually, yes, that was classified, which indicates that the defense secretary is lying about it, where do you see this going?

CARROLL: If they wanted to, the administration could use the final Inspector General report when it comes out to insist that Secretary Hegseth resigns, but I guess the question is whether there's any shame left in the senior ranks of the United States government. If you're the Secretary of Defense and you get caught out in a lie about a material thing, like whether or not something is classified information, I don't see how you can stay in the job. But some people are shameless.

KEILAR: So if he remains in the job after this, after this finding presumably comes out sort of officially, right, in a very clear way. And then you have, as we always see, these public occurrences of people in the military getting in trouble criminally for disclosing information and they're prosecuted, I mean, how do you square that?

CARROLL: You can't. I mean, maybe they'll just have to stop prosecuting people for mishandling classified information, which would be a bad idea, right, because we want classified information to be tightly held. Or these people will be tried and they'll be acquitted because of, you know, good arguments by their defense counsel that whatever the defendant did is much less serious than what the Secretary of Defense did. It's a complete mess.

KEILAR: Kevin Carroll, great to have you. Thank you so much for being with us.

CARROLL: Thanks, Brianna.

KEILAR: And coming up, how the president's massive push to carry out more deportations is now taking aim at migrant teenagers.

[14:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: As the Trump administration looks to ramp up deportations, CNN is learning exclusive new details about plans to deport unaccompanied migrant children. Federal agents are now being directed to ask teens whether they want to voluntarily self-deport.

Let's bring in CNN's Priscilla Alvarez, who's been following this story. What more are you learning here?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a new directive that has been sent out to the field in terms of how to approach children who are crossing the U.S.-Mexico border unaccompanied. Now, we still call children who are living with family members in the United States unaccompanied as well because of the way they initially crossed. So this could really affect a wide swathe of children in the United States.

Now, the directive here is to U.S. Customs and Border Protection personnel who, again, are fanned out across the country right now conducting immigration enforcement operations. And when they encounter a migrant teen, be 14 to 17 years old, they can ask them, do you want to voluntarily depart the United States?

Now, some may take that up, but the other concern here from advocates and attorneys is that some may not understand what they're being asked. Typically, what would happen here is that the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agent would send them over to the Health and Human Services Department because they are charged with their care.

What they're doing here is slicing them out, asking the question if they say yes, sending them to ICE for deportation.

[14:45:00]

Now, we should note here that under U.S. law, this has been true for children from Mexico and Canada because those are contiguous territories, but they haven't really spent much time in the U.S. Because of that law, when those children are encountered on the U.S.- Mexico border, they can be swiftly removed. I think the key here is that this can now apply to kids who have been in the United States for years as they go through their legal proceedings who are now being asked these questions.

Now, when I asked the Department of Homeland Security about this, they said, quote, This is a longstanding practice that was used by previous administrations to prioritize getting children back to the safety of a parent or legal guardian in their home country. The only change pursuant to the Big Beautiful Bill is expanding this option to return home unaccompanied children from additional countries beyond Mexico and Canada.

So that really is the key here. Yes, this has been true under the law for children from Mexico and Canada, but when you apply it to all the other nationalities who are residing in the United States and who make up the majority of those in the United States, well, this all goes into the strategy of the Trump administration to lean in on self- deportations.

And that doesn't just stop with the parents, guardians, and families who may be considering this option, but now also extending to the teens who crossed the United States unaccompanied at one point in the past.

DEAN: Fourteen to seventeen years old but could be living with relatives here.

ALVAREZ: Right.

DEAN: All right. Important context there, Priscilla. Thank you so much.

South Park comes out swinging. The iconic show kicked off a new season by ripping into President Trump, and now the White House is responding.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: The creators of South Park now joining Stephen Colbert in skewering their parent company fresh off inking a $1.5 billion streaming deal with Paramount. Matt Stone and Trey Parker are going after President Trump and Paramount.

KEILAR: $1.5 billion. That is wild, isn't it? Last night's season 27 premiere, maybe that's why it's $1.5 billion, revolved around the ending of wokeness and a Trump character suing the residents of South Park after they protest Jesus appearing in schools. Jesus then appears to the town and breaks the fourth wall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESUS, SOUTH PARK: You guys saw what happened to CBS? You don't want to guess who owns CBS? Paramount?

You really want to end up like Colbert? You guys got to stop being stupid.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can't understand you.

JESUS: Just shut up or we're going to get canceled, you idiots.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN's chief media analyst, Brian Stelter, is with us now. And Brian, the White House is responding to this episode. What are they saying?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Yes, indeed. It wouldn't be 2025 if the White House was not punching back at a bunch of cartoon characters. But, you know, understandably, perhaps, because South Park not only depicted Trump in bed with Satan and referenced and derided the size of the president's genitalia and criticized his litigious nature, it packed so much into that episode overnight.

And so the White House said, in part, quote, This show hasn't been relevant for almost 20 years and is hanging on by a thread with uninspired ideas in a desperate attempt for attention.

South Park certainly getting that attention today and savoring it as well. This show has always been known for punching up and also for being willing and able to say and do anything. That's really the spirit of South Park.

So you might be wondering, what is Paramount doing paying $1.5 billion for the streaming rights while at the same time it's claiming that the financial strains on late night TV are so severe that Stephen Colbert's show is canceled? Well, the difference has to do with the streaming era.

South Park is a huge hit on demand. People love to watch episodes from, yes, 20 years ago or 10 years ago. So South Park has a lot of value in an on demand streaming world, while Colbert's late show all about topical humor, it really doesn't have as much value.

So actually, in this case, the math does math. The math does add up, Brianna.

DEAN: And Brian, then there's this moment in the episode where Matt Stone and Trey Parker make fun of 60 Minutes. I want to listen to this clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The small town of South Park, Colorado, is protesting against the president. The townspeople claim that the president, who is a great man.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A great man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Great guy. We know he's probably watching. And we're just reporting on this town in Colorado that's being sued by the president and they are fighting back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And just to be clear, we don't agree with them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Brian, you've got some news on a key hire for 60 Minutes. What more do you have on that?

STELTER: Yes, this has been in the works for months. You remember back in April, the head of 60 Minutes, Bill Owens, resigned under pressure. He was citing interference from the apparent company amid President Trump's baseless lawsuit against 60 Minutes.

He resigned and now the company has named a new leader there. Tanya Simon, daughter of the late CBS correspondent Bob Simon, will be the new executive producer of 60 Minutes. This is a big deal because, well, number one, it's the most popular news program in America.

Number two, she is a steady hand. She's been there for 25 years. It's a sign that CBS is still going to support 60 Minutes, even though Trump has been trying to get the show off the air.

Earlier today, correspondent Sharyn Alfonsi wrote on Instagram, People keep asking me, what's next for 60 Minutes? And the truth is, I don't know. But I know with Tanya running the show, we are in good hands.

KEILAR: What a squeeze, though, the parent company is getting here, though, Brian, right? I mean, Colbert, South Park. And, you know, we're seeing 60 Minutes and journalists there who have been outspoken.

[14:55:02]

Paramount, as it is seeking the government's approval for this merger, is getting a lot of internal incoming, and it's pretty extraordinary.

STELTER: Yes. And all of President Trump's power plays, there have been so many in recent months, Harvard and big law firms, Columbia and so many others. But Paramount is really a test case because it has this pending merger before the government.

Both 60 Minutes and South Park, they come out of Paramount. But the Late Show and the Daily Show, all of these programs, American institutions full of room for satire, for humor, for criticism, and in the case of 60 Minutes, investigative reporting about the administration. All of those kinds of brands under pressure right now because the Trump administration has to bless this merger with billions of dollars at stake.

I've been checking in with FCC Chairman Brendan Carr. He has not commented on the status of that merger review. But just yesterday, the future owners of Paramount promised to bring an ombudsman to CBS. They promised to do away with any DEI policies.

So the company continues to try to signal to the Trump administration that it wants to play ball, of course, most famously with that settlement deal struck with the president earlier this month. The bigger question here is not about 60 Minutes, not about South Park.

It's about whether big television networks are going to continue to make room for satire, for investigative reporting, for criticism of President Trump.

KEILAR: Yes, Brian Stelter, thank you so much for taking us through that.

And ahead, President Trump is using a visit to the Federal Reserve Building here in Washington to escalate his pressure campaign on the Fed chair, Jerome Powell.

The central bank's interest rate policy and renovation project in focus. We'll have more when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END