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Sources: DOJ Meeting Today with Ghislaine Maxwell in Florida; Soon: Trump Tours Federal Reserve Amid Pressure Campaign on Powell; Fed Expected to Keep Rates Steady at a Meeting Next Week; Hulk Hogan Dead at 71; Grammy-Winning Jazz Musician Chuck Mangione Dies. Aired 3- 3:30p ET

Aired July 24, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: A remarkable meeting in the Epstein files saga. The deputy attorney general going to Florida for a sit-down with the late sex offender's imprisoned accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell.

On Capitol Hill, meanwhile, House Republicans joined Democrats in demanding the Epstein files be released.

Plus, President Trump escalating his pressure campaign against Fed Chair Jerome Powell with a rare visit to Federal Reserve headquarters. The President set to tour the building next hour for a first-hand look at the renovations underway.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And the wrestling world in mourning. They are mourning the death of their biggest star of all time, Hulk Hogan has died at the age of 71.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

DEAN: Major new questions in the fight over the Jeffrey Epstein files. Today, President Trump's deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche, is said to be meeting with Jeffrey Epstein's convicted associate, Ghislaine Maxwell. Maxwell is serving a 20-year prison sentence for helping Epstein groom and sexually abuse underage girls. And we're standing by to learn more about that meeting. CNN's Kevin Liptak is leading this off for us this hour from the White House.

Kevin, are we getting any reaction out of the White House on this today?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, the White House has really kind of left this matter to the Justice Department, but it's certainly true that officials here at the White House are certainly hopeful that anything that they can do to try and unearth more information about this Epstein case could potentially tamp down some of the fear among the President's supporters.

But it is not at all clear that this meeting that's happening right now down in Tallahassee is going to do that. There are a lot of questions about what Ghislaine Maxwell is actually going to be able to provide that would lend some more information that the Justice Department could then tell the President's supporters about all of this.

One, it's not exactly clear what she knows. Obviously, she was a very close associate of Jeffrey Epstein, but it's also not necessarily clear how much she's willing to say. And it's an open question of what incentives Todd Blanche, the number two law enforcement official in the entire country, is willing to offer her to provide that information.

You know, she is at the very start of this 20-year sentence. She has maintained her innocence throughout all of this. She is appealing her conviction. And it seems, you know, almost certain that she's going to want something in return if she is able to spill some of these details that potentially she could have about Jeffrey Epstein and about some of the people he was associated with when he was convicting and conducting all of the crimes.

And so, I think that remains sort of an open question of exactly how much of a reliable narrator she will be in all of this. You know, she's a convicted sex trafficker, and certainly even some of the President's supporters question relying too much on her word as they try and release and put out more information about this Jeffrey Epstein case in a bid to be more transparent.

In the meantime, what you've seen the White House doing is really engage in kind of a pivot strategy. You have the President this afternoon going to the Federal Reserve, the first president in almost 20 years to go over to that building just a couple blocks here from the White House. You have the intelligence community and the director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, talking about some of these conspiracies that they claim President Obama and his advisers committed when he was in office related to Russia and Russian election meddling.

You see all of these efforts to really kind of turn the attention away from this Epstein matter.

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But thus far, it doesn't appear as if the President's supporters have necessarily turned their attention completely away.

DEAN: All right. Kevin Liptak at the White House, thanks so much for that. Brianna?

KEILAR: Within the hour, President Trump is expected to head to the Federal Reserve headquarters here in Washington. And he plans to tour the historic building undergoing a $2.5 billion renovation, which the President and many of his allies have been criticizing as excessive as unnecessary. The visit comes as the President ramps up his attacks on Fed Chair Jerome Powell over interest rates. CNN's Brian Todd is joining us now. And, Brian, presidents traditionally keep their distance from the Fed

as if it's an independent arm of the government, not the case today. What are they hoping to see on this tour?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, they're hoping to see exactly what a $2.5 billion renovation looks like. And we can show you what that looks like firsthand. I'm going to step out of the shot here for a second. And our photojournalist, Jake Shire (ph) is going to zoom in.

This is a live picture of the Federal Reserve. This is the main Eccles building of the Federal Reserve. There's another building right next to it called the 1951 building that is also being renovated. But here you see it. You see the scaffolding. You see the tarps on the right- hand side of the main entrance there. You see the blue-skin waterproof coverings on the windows. And just a lot of cranes. There are two massive cranes on this building.

But we can also show you some special video that we were able to shoot earlier today with a special media tour of the building. The media was able to see where construction workers could usually go, and no one else could see it until today. We saw workers in hazmat suits navigating the interior. We saw stone cladding going on, that stone being placed on the framework of some areas of the building on the exteriors and the interiors.

We also saw an image of the original skylight above the main entrance of the building. That is also being restored. What I can tell you, Brianna, from federal officials who took the media through this tour earlier today is some new information. Federal officials telling us that they're installing blast-resistant windows on this building as part of an upgrading of security features here. That is driving the cost of this renovation up.

In addition, a new feature, security-related, progressive collapse measures to prevent the building from collapsing all at once. Now, the Fed says these buildings, which were built almost a hundred years ago, well, they had to be restored because the electrical grids, the HVAC, the plumbing, the fire detection systems were antiquated, and this had to be done.

But, of course, as you've been mentioning, President Trump and his allies saying that there could be fraud involved in the cost overruns of this building. It was originally slated to be renovated for $1.9 billion. It has shot up to $2.5 billion. They're saying that fraud could have been involved, and they're accusing Fed Chairman Jerome Powell of not conforming to building regulations with federal agencies, and that's a charge that he denies, and he also denies the fraud claims. Brianna?

KEILAR: All right, so it's a big job. We can see that from those excellent pictures you were able to bring to us there, Brian. Where did this money, the $2.5 billion, come from?

TODD: It came from a variety of sources. And again, you know, Fed Chairman Powell and his team are being heavily criticized by President Trump, by OMB Chairman Russell Vought, who have been really all over him regarding this renovation. What the Fed says is that the cost overruns are due to the removal of more asbestos than was originally anticipated, soil contamination, inflation and I just mentioned some other features that they've had to install for security, including those blast-resistant windows, so all of that kind of driving up the cost.

This project was basically authorized before COVID started. The renovation started a few years ago, so a lot of this through the years has just kind of come up. Inflation, a big part of why the costs have gone up, but again, that's a big point of contention in this crisis management battle between the Fed and the Donald Trump White House.

KEILAR: Brian Todd, thank you so much for that reporting. Jessica?

DEAN: Joining us now, former Trump economic advisor Stephen Moore. Stephen, thanks so much for being here with us to talk through some of this. Let's start first with the President's decision to visit the Federal Reserve Building today. Can that be seen as anything else but building pressure against Jerome Powell?

STEPHEN MOORE, FORMER TRUMP ECONOMIC ADVISER: Well, I think it is putting pressure, no doubt about it, Jessica. There's no, it's no secret that Donald Trump and Jerome Powell have not gotten along for a long time. And don't forget, Jessica, it was Donald Trump who originally appointed Jerome Powell to this position. And as you guys said, metaphorically, the Fed and the President usually stay at a distance, but now they're coming closer right up front and personal (INAUDIBLE) visit by the President.

But yes, I think this is meant to put a little bit of pressure on Jerome Powell.

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Trump wants him out, and it's a question of whether he's going to be out in six or eight months when his term is over, Jessica, or whether Trump acts more quickly and tries to fire him before his term is out.

DEAN: And you note that it was President Trump himself who appointed Jerome Powell to that position that he's been in for many years now, nearing the end now of that - of his current term. Is this just - in your opinion, is this just about the fact that Powell won't do exactly what Trump wants? Is that what this boils down to?

MOORE: Well, first of all, I thought it was ironic when you all were talking about why we've had these huge cost overruns. And incidentally, this is something that most Americans around the country, they look at this and they roll their eyes and say, this is everything that's wrong with Washington. How can it cost two and a half billion dollars to renovate a building? Maybe two and a half million dollars, but not two and a half billion. And with the reflecting pools and the marble staircases and all of this stuff, it just - it looks luxurious to people and probably very unnecessary.

And, you know, it's given - let's face it, it's given Jerome Powell a little bit of a black eye here. But I thought it was ironic that they're saying, well, the reason we have these cost overruns is because of inflation. Well, who caused the inflation, Chairman Powell? You were the Fed chairman at this time. But yes, this is meant to put some pressure on him. And we'll see what Trump says today.

I do not think he's going to call for his firing, but you never know.

DEAN: I want to listen to what Biden economic advisor, Gene Sperling, said about the independence of the Fed. Let's just listen to what he said earlier today.

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GENE SPERLING, SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: If he were to do what President Trump wants, which is look like he is the political servant of Donald Trump, that would hurt confidence, that would drive up mortgage rates more. People would look at the United States and say, I thought that was a place that was solid, that you could rely on an independent Fed to try to control inflation. Now we know they'll do whatever the President says. That means they're going to be more hesitant to lend to the United States. That means interest rates and mortgage rates go up.

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DEAN: What do you think about that? In terms of the Fed's independence and just what a stalwart it is, not just for our economy, but for the global economy. If that is shaken, I think that is the central question here, shaking the independence of the Fed, what does that do?

MOORE: Well, look, I generally agree with what Gene was just saying. He's a friend of mine, by the way. But I would say that the Fed has to be accountable to someone. I mean, people say to me, do you think the President should be able to fire the Fed chairman? I say, well, if he can't do it, who can? I mean, we always talk about dangers to democracy. I think it would be - everybody would agree that it's a danger to democracy when you have a guy who thinks he can do whatever he wants. He's one of the most powerful people in Washington.

And so, I do think the President probably has the authority to do this, although the courts, if there was a firing of Powell, I think the courts would make a decision about whether he does or does not have that authority. But let's not forget, I mean, we have - it's been a pretty spotty record at best under Jerome Powell. He's the one who gave us the 9 percent inflation in 2021 and '22, which wrecked families' incomes. He's the one who was too tight early in Trump's first term and almost caused a recession.

So, he hardly has a sterling record. And if he were to be fired, I think it should be for cause. And I think there may be cause.

DEAN: But Trump has said often that it was the COVID bill during Biden that caused the inflation. That's kind of what he said. And now he's mad that Powell won't cut the rates, right?

MOORE: Yes. Well, I mean, you're right. Look, we had way too much spending in those original COVID years, and the Fed accommodated that by printing money. And then we had this, you know, highest inflation since the 1970s. And that was a big problem. It caused a lot of hardship for American families.

Lately, the Fed - look, I think I could go one way or the other about whether the Fed should lower rates right now. We still have a little bit of an inflation problem out there right now, Jessica. The latest rate was 2.7 percent. We want it down to 2- to maybe 2.2 percent. So, you know, I could go either way on that. Trump feels very strongly that they should reduce rates now. And there are a lot of good economists who agree.

DEAN: All right. Stephen Moore, thanks for your time. We appreciate it.

MOORE: Thank you.

DEAN: Still to come, pro wrestling legend Hulk Hogan has died at the age of 71. We're going to take a look at his legacy in and out of the ring.

Plus, House Speaker Mike Johnson, under increasing pressure from members of his own party over the release of the Epstein files.

And a little bit later, with back-to-school shopping in full swing, parents are rushing to get supplies and beat tariff-driven price hikes. We have that and much more coming up here on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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KEILAR: We are following breaking news today. Hall of Fame pro wrestler turned pop icon Hulk Hogan has died. Officials in Clearwater, Florida say first responders were sent to his home this morning after a report of someone in cardiac arrest. He was pronounced dead at the hospital. Authorities say there were no signs of foul play. Hogan was 71 years old.

He was born Terry Bollea, but skyrocketed to fame in the 1980s in the WWF, now the WWE, and his larger than life personality, of course, making him a household name. Beyond the ring, he also appeared in television shows and movies.

DEAN: Just last year, he electrified the crowd at the Republican National Convention in support of President Donald Trump.

With us now, the co-host of "The Masked Man Show" and former WWE writer, Kazeem Famuyide. Also with us, wrestling writer and historian, Keith Greenberg. He's the author of the book, "Bigger! Better! Badder!" Great to have both of you here to talk a little bit more about somebody who became so indelible in terms of just his image and his link to wrestling in the last several decades.

Keith, first, talk to us a little bit about Hogan's superstardom, what his legacy is, the impact that he had.

KEITH GREENBERG, WRESTLING WRITER & HISTORIAN: Oh, well, I think that Hulk Hogan was the first professional wrestler to truly bridge the gap into pop culture. Prior to the Hulk Hogan era, professional wrestling was considered at the very best fringe entertainment, and it was considered fair for the so-called unwashed masses.

With Hulk Hogan leading the charge, professional wrestling became acceptable in some ways family entertainment. And I don't think, even though Vince McMahon was the brain behind that, I don't think it could have been accomplished without Hulk Hogan as the lightning rod.

KEILAR: And Kazeem, I was not a wrestling fan, but you can't escape Hulk Hogan. He was ubiquitous, and even I knew that move. I had to Google it to see the name, the running leg drop. But talk to us a little bit about his biggest matches, his biggest rivalries, and that move. There it is right there.

Kazeem Famuyide: Yes, like it was just stated before, Hulk Hogan's indelible impact on professional wrestling and pop culture can't be understated. From his first massive match at WrestleMania III against Andre the Giant, which obviously catapulted WWF and pro wrestling in general into pop culture up until WrestleMania X8, which was one of my favorite matches of all time against "The Rock" in a time where probably a lot of people thought was past his prime and he got like another jolt of popularity within the wrestling world around that time.

He's somebody as a professional wrestler, as a performer, this industry that, you know, a lot of us have gotten to have lived great lives because of probably isn't around without him. And you can never take that away from him. But this is obviously a very complicated day. I mean, his legacy is a lot more than just what he did in the ring, and which is why today, which should be a day of celebration and, you know, exalting for everything that he accomplished. It's not that simple. It's not that easy.

KEILAR: Yes. No, certainly.

And Keith, can you talk to that a little bit, the - what his success meant for the success of professional wrestling as a whole?

GREENBERG: Well, I alluded to that earlier. I think that what Hulk Hogan really did was he made professional wrestling something that even people who say were appalled by the gratuitous violence began - he increased the comfort level. So they're like, it's okay if my kids watch this. It's Hulk Hogan. He's a nice guy. He is literally a superhero come to life.

So, he humanized it and at the same time, he also put it in - he really presented his entertainment. So, you're like, okay, it's like a cartoon hero, but he seems like an okay guy. So, I'm comfortable with the whole package.

DEAN: And Kazeem, you kind of were alluding to this as well. His career was not without controversy. There was the Gawker lawsuit. He was caught on tape using the N-word, making racist comments. He was fired by the WWE. They removed him from the Hall of Fame. He was later reinstated. He did apologize. But what kind of mark did that leave on his legacy? As you note, it's not without complication.

FAMUYIDE: Yes. I mean, it's part of his legacy, which is the most unfortunate part of it because like almost everybody who's a wrestling fan born in the United States, you grew up on Hulk Hogan. Like what was just said, you know, you can't hug Superman. You can't like, you know, dab up Captain America, but Hulk Hogan was a real guy that you can go and see and go and pay to watch. And that was pretty much as close as you can to be a superhero. But you know, it's unfortunate.

I mean, my first actual interaction with Hulk Hogan was when I was working at WWE and it was him coming backstage to apologize for all the mess that he sort of brought onto WWE when they finally brought him back, when they reinstated him. And he sort of gave a speech to the locker room, which, you know, didn't really feel like much of an apology.

[15:25:04]

And now it's kind of been the story about Hulk Hogan, you know, out of the ring since then.

You know, there's been a lot of times, you know, even us as fans, even us as people who has seen him throughout his career, just waiting for him to just like, sort of redeem himself or at least attempt to redeem himself to a large section of fans, myself included, a lot of people who look like me that spent a lot of money that we probably didn't have as kids rooting for this guy that wanted to be - you know, that we wanted him to sort of be our hero.

And the first time you see him, he's sort of not the guy that you expected him to be. It was sort of like seeing - I can't really explain it. It was - I've never seen a man so big feel so small at that moment, because we all saw what he said. We all heard what he said. And it's an indelible mark on his legacy now that despite the fact that he is an absolute pop culture Americana icon. Like, you still have to kind of look at him a little bit sideways. And even though he said what he said, it still never really felt like he got right with the people that he truly offended. It was the most - one of the most inflammatory things I've ever heard anybody say. Talk less of someone of that stature that has been that popular for that long.

So, that being said, I can never, ever, ever take away what he means to professional wrestling, what he means to the industry and just American pop culture in general. But that day is something that's stuck in my mind for a very, very long time. So, I can always, you know, respectfully give him his props, but it's just - it's never going to feel the right way. And today's proof of that.

DEAN: Yes. All right, Kazeem, Keith, thank you to both of you. We really appreciate it.

GREENBERG: If I could insert.

DEAN: Yes, go ahead. Quick ...

GREENBERG: Thank you. I just want to say that, you know, that should be balanced with all the good he did. I know for a fact, because I was around for years, I was around in the 1980s. He did a lot of work with the Make-A-Wish Foundation and he did a lot of that without self- promotion. And I think, you know, it's the end of his life now. And I think we're going to have to look at the complete human being.

DEAN: Well, yes, there's many sides to a life. There's no doubt about that.

FAMUYIDE: Absolutely.

DEAN: Thank you to both of you. Thank you so much.

And the music world is mourning the loss of Grammy-winning jazz musician, Chuck Mangione. He was 84 years old. Mangione was a famed flugelhorn player, trumpeter and composer.

KEILAR: He won two Grammys over his 60-year career in music. And his composition of the upbeat instrumental "Feels So Good" became an unlikely pop hit in 1978. He started playing jazz as a teenager and was known for his distinctive style with his long hair and his brown felt hat with a feather band. We're told that Mangione passed away peacefully in his sleep at his home in Rochester, New York.

And in a surprise move, a House subcommittee votes to subpoena the DOJ for files related to Jeffrey Epstein. We'll talk about that with Democratic Congressman Robert Garcia next.

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