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Soon: Trump Arrives In Scotland As Furor Grows Over Epstein Files; Maxwell's Lawyer Says She Answered Questions About Roughly 100 People During Meeting With Deputy AG; FCC Greenlights $8B Paramount- Skydance Deal. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired July 25, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: This, as the convicted Jeffrey Epstein associate spent a second day meeting with the number two official at the DOJ, what her attorney had to say after that meeting.

Plus, ceasefire talks between Israel and Hamas collapse as the humanitarian crisis in Gaza grows more dire by the hour. Doctors there say they are fainting while trying to save their starving patients.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Plus, Skydance and Paramount's mega merger approved. President Trump's FCC okayed the $8 billion deal, but not before the companies agreed to some interesting concessions.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

This hour, we're standing by for President Trump to arrive in Scotland. After making some new comments about the Jeffrey Epstein case, the President, just before leaving Washington today, refused to say whether or not he would pardon Epstein's convicted associate, Ghislaine Maxwell. Here was the moment CNN's Kevin Liptak asked him about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Would you consider a pardon or a commutation for Ghislaine Maxwell? If (INAUDIBLE) ...

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's something I haven't thought about. It's really something ...

LIPTAK: (INAUDIBLE) ...

TRUMP: I'm allowed to do it. But it's something I have not thought about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Now, that answer coming as Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche was finishing up roughly 10 hours of questioning with Maxwell. I want to go now to Scotland, where again, the President is expected to land quite soon. Jeff Zeleny is there on the ground for us.

Jeff, as we heard here in Washington, the President not ruling out a pardon. This is likely something he's going to be asked about again, as he makes his way to his property there in Scotland.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Jessica, it certainly is one of the questions that is hanging over this entire saga. Of course, Ghislaine Maxwell was spending the second day meeting with the Deputy Attorney General of the United States. Quite extraordinary when you think about that, so that is why the question of a potential pardon or commutation is certainly interesting for the President, because he noted there he does have the power to do that.

But look, as the President is trying to escape the heated controversies of Washington coming over here to Scotland for what amounts to about a four-day working vacation and trip, a bit of golf mixed with some foreign policy meetings as well, it is still the Jeffrey Epstein saga that is hanging over everything. And before the President left the White House today, he was also asked about one of the subplots, if you will, in this drama, and that is that 50th birthday card that was sent to Jeffrey Epstein, which included a letter from President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you maintain you did not write a letter for Jeffrey Epstein's birthday book?

TRUMP: I don't even know what they're talking about. Now, somebody could have written a letter and used my name, but that's happened a lot. All you have to do is take a look at the dossier, the fake dossier.

You should focus on Clinton. You should focus on the president of Harvard, the former president of Harvard. You should focus on some of the hedge fund guys. I'll give you a list. These guys lived with Jeffrey Epstein. I sure as hell didn't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, the President there growing animated, as he has for really the better part of three weeks, as the questions about this have just simply not been put to rest, largely of the President and his allies' own making, of course. This has been one of the anthems of the Make America Great Again movement, if you will, the questions about Jeffrey Epstein. And now with the Trump administration in charge, not answering these questions has led to a lot of consternation.

Again, the President hoping to move beyond all of this. It's unclear if that will happen, though, Jessica. Even here in Scotland, there are signs of Jeffrey Epstein that were appearing outside one of Trump's golf courses. Protests are scheduled here tomorrow in Edinburgh. So, we will see if the President has the weekend respite that he hopes he'll have on his golf courses. And again, he's continuing with trade talks on Sunday and Monday here in Scotland. Jessica?

DEAN: All right. His arrival there imminent. Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much for that. Brianna.

KEILAR: So, what does the Justice Department plan to do with everything Ghislaine Maxwell told them yesterday and today? Her lawyer says she answered questions about roughly 100 people during her meetings with Deputy Attorney General and former personal attorney to President Trump, Todd Blanche. CNN Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent Paula Reid is with us on this. She is tracking all of the details.

Do we know anything else about what they discussed, Paula?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're learning a little bit, but there's still more questions than answers. We know the two sides met today for about three hours after talking through the day yesterday. Once again, her lawyer said she answered every question that she was asked. She did not invoke privilege.

[15:05:00]

And when really pressed on exactly what she's being asked about, her lawyer said that they've asked about every single possible thing you can imagine, but then revealed that she was asked about maybe a hundred different people. She answered questions about everybody and did not hold anything back. I think that's sort of the biggest headline we've gotten out of these meetings so far.

He was also asked about, you know, where he sees all this going. Let's take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID OSCAR MARKUS, ATTORNEY FOR GHISLAINE MAXWELL: We don't know how it's going to play out. We just know that this was the first opportunity she's ever been given to answer questions about what happened. And so, the truth will come out about what happened with Mr. Epstein, and she's the person who's answering those questions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: So, her lawyer has really been the only one speaking publicly about these meetings. So, we have to apply some skepticism here, right? She is serving a 20-year prison sentence for sex trafficking of minors. Women during her trial testified how she recruited them, groomed them, and in some cases sexually assaulted them.

She is appealing that conviction, but we have to remember there are risks here for the administration in terms of taking everything that she says at face value. Her lawyer insists that everything she says can be corroborated and that she is telling the truth. He is also notably trying to reframe her as the victim in all of this.

He said earlier that she has been treated unfairly for over five years. He said if you look up scapegoat in the dictionary, her face will be next to the dictionary definition.

Now, look, Brianna, if we take a step back and look at the larger context here, a lot of the outrage is because there are concerns that there is a larger effort to protect sexual predators. So, the idea that she, again, a convicted sex trafficker, is the victim or that the government should take anything that she says or even cut some sort of deal, all of that is potentially fraught for the administration, giving, you know, giving some insight into the reason that so many of their supporters are outraged about it. So far, the Justice Department has not said much. Yesterday, the Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche said he will release additional information at the appropriate time.

KEILAR: Yes, what's so clear when you look at the reporting of people who have spoken to victims is there was no big scheme without Ghislaine Maxwell, and she, because of that, was convicted of sex trafficking minors.

Paula Reid, thank you so much. We know that you're following every in and out of this, and we appreciate it. Jessica.

DEAN: And for more on all of this, we're joined now by Marc Short. He served as White House legislative affairs director during the first Trump administration and was chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence. He's currently the board chair of Advancing American Freedom.

Marc, thanks for being here with us.

MARC SHORT, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: Jessica, thanks for having me.

DEAN: As you kind of look at all of this and you see what they're doing with Maxwell right now, Todd Blanche down there talking to her, what do you think this is really about?

SHORT: Well, my best assumption is trying to find some other avenue as opposed to just releasing all the information and hope that some sort of her testimony will say things that happened or didn't happen they could put out. But - and I'm not sure that's going to work without the full transparency. I think there's been so much for several years of promises made by J.D. Vance, by Pam Bondi, by Kash Patel, once elected, this is the information they'll provide. And obviously, it's such a horrific and salacious story of trafficking these young minors. A lot of Americans want to have the information.

DEAN: Yes. I mean, that's kind of at the heart of it when you really just make this purely political, right, is that this was promised to a lot of supporters. There were so many theories, so many promises made that if you don't finally give them something, do they really ever let this go? Not to say he would ever lose their support, per se, but it could nag at him.

SHORT: Well, Jessica, I don't think it's just something. I think they have to give it all.

DEAN: Yes.

SHORT: I think if it's just some piece of it, you're only going to raise that support more. I think President Trump has obviously survived a lot of different controversies. And so, I don't think his support is really at risk.

DEAN: Right. SHORT: But I do think there's a risk for a lot of other Republicans.

Because, again, this was something that was put out there to say that in many cases, the expectation believes that they were prominent Democrats who are participating in this. And so that has been out there. And a lot of their supporters want to get the information, which is why I think you see Republicans continuing to sign on to a discharge petition. And I think there's probably some false sense of relief that you reached the recess and it didn't happen yet.

But, Jessica, I think as members go home, they're only going to hear from their constituents more that they want this information. So, I think you're probably going to see this problem just continue to swell during the recess until, again, they actually provide the information.

DEAN: And what you're getting at is that Mike Johnson let everybody go a little bit early so they didn't have to deal with this ...

SHORT: Yes.

DEAN: ... hoping that this would maybe quiet down when they get home. But to your point, this doesn't seem like it's fading any time soon. And short of being fully transparent, people are still going to want a lot of answers. So, do you see more? I mean, we are seeing this in real time, but does it force a point with Republicans on the Hill where they are actually fighting for their own political survival, right?

[15:10:03]

SHORT: Yes, I think it does, Jessica. Because I think even Speaker Johnson, I think, was just affording the President's team more time because even though there was not a vote this week, he did say on another TV interview that that he expects full transparency from the administration. And so, I think it's just basically affording them more time to reach the same conclusion.

But yes, because I think the President has locked in support. And the challenge for Republicans, as it was in the midterms of 2018, is there's a lot of fall off from those people who just want to support Donald Trump, but not other Republicans. Well, what if that happens to those Republicans in the midterm, if all of a sudden the base of the party believes they're withholding information, and they all of a sudden become dispirited and they don't turn out for him?

So, I think it is a political concern for a lot of other elected Republicans to say, we're going to demand this transparency until we get it.

DEAN: And then we saw the President today as he was leaving, and he said he hadn't thought about, you know, issuing a pardon for Maxwell, but he said he had the right to do it. But he didn't say no, let's put it that way. Again, you're not in the current administration, but what is the thinking, knowing some of these key players as you do, what is their thinking in moments like this? This is a crisis I feel like they haven't quite faced one where they haven't been able to get their hands on it, like around - wrap their arms around it as, you know, as they have others.

SHORT: You know, I'm assuming the President was just sort of caught off guard in that moment, but at the same time, I'm sure they want as much participation from Maxwell as possible. So, you don't want to say you're closing the door to that. I think it is the right thing to do to say I'm closing the door to that just because of how heinous these crimes were. But perhaps that's what he was against, what he was getting at, and why he left that door open.

DEAN: Well, and that's the thing too, because as Brianna pointed out, without Maxwell, and she's convicted, like this has all gone through the court of law, there would be no scheme. There would be - Jeffrey Epstein would not have been able to do what he did, and for those supporters to pardon somebody like that ...

SHORT: Yes, I still think that's impossible.

DEAN: Yes.

SHORT: It's really hard for me to imagine that transpiring. But I think, again, this is not going to go away no matter what piece they give out or what piece they give of Maxwell testimony until I think the American people see the full files.

DEAN: Okay, so we wait and see if that's where we get. Marc Short, always good to have you.

SHORT: Thanks, Jessica.

DEAN: Thank you for being here.

SHORT: Appreciate it.

DEAN: Still to come this afternoon, the FCC finally lets Paramount and Skydance merge. Why the deal is leading to concerns, though, about free speech and government interference.

Plus, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says alternative options are being considered to bring home the hostages and destroy Hamas. We'll have details on that.

And a little bit later, CNN will sit down with the police chief and the lead investigator at the Center of the Idaho student murders. What they're saying about the case's key questions remain unanswered. We've got that and much more coming up right here on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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[15:17:06]

KEILAR: The FCC, under President Trump, has greenlit an $8 billion merger between Paramount Global and Skydance Media. Skydance will be able to finalize the deal and take control of Paramount in the coming weeks. The merger review process was riddled with allegations of political interference stemming from Trump's scathing criticism of Paramount's CBS News division. We're joined now by the trailblazing former CBS News Anchor and

Reporter and the author of the New York Times bestseller and critically acclaimed memoir, "Connie," the Connie Chung. Connie, thank you so much for being with us.

CONNIE CHUNG: Thank you. Can you hear me?

KEILAR: Yes, I hear you fine. Can you hear me?

CHUNG: Can you see me?

KEILAR: I see you great. Can you see me?

CHUNG: Yes, and can you hear ...

KEILAR: Okay.

CHUNG: ... can you see me?

KEILAR: Yes, we are - we can completely hear you. Everything is good on our end.

CHUNG: Okay, because ...

KEILAR: All right.

CHUNG: ... I'm not quite getting you, but it's fine.

KEILAR: Okay. As long as you can hear me.

CHUNG: Okay.

KEILAR: I wanted to ask you - I know that you've been watching this all so carefully. What concessions in this merger concern you the most or is it really the totality of them?

CHUNG: Well, I fear the end of CBS as I knew it. It's - CBS was always a standalone network. It was autonomous. The news division was autonomous, but - and it was always unencumbered by pressures from politicians, including presidents and unencumbered by bean counters. But now I can see very clearly that the days that I remembered are long gone. Honest, unbiased, fact-based journalism is being tainted. And those who practiced that journalism like Edward R. Murrow and Walter Cronkite have - that kind of journalism has disappeared.

I - and I also fear that gone are the days of Frank Stanton, who was the President of CBS, who defended the rights of the journalism, the First Amendment, the Fourth Estate before Congress. And he represented all journalists in many ways.

For me, it's - I see it as shame on Shari Redstone and Larry Ellison and his son, David, who have - who appear to know - who have tainted journalism.

[15:20:10]

And they seem to only know greed, avarice.

And I worry about the CBS that I used to know. Ellison's lawyers told CBS that they would wipe away diversity. And I would never have had that - a glorious career at CBS or NBC or ABC had it not been for the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which women and minorities were finally recognized as equal in the respect that they could not be discriminated against and could get the jobs that they sought.

KEILAR: Connie, and I'm sorry to interrupt you.

CHUNG: I ...

KEILAR: I'm sorry to interrupt you on that, but yes, to your point, they pledged not to implement any new DEI policies. That was what Paramount's soon-to-be owners ...

CHUNG: Yes.

KEILAR: ... that Skydance said, that was one of the concessions there. I wonder when you, you know ...

CHUNG: Yes.

KEILAR: ... you're someone that so many journalists look up to and at CBS News, especially. So if you are talking to people who are working at CBS News and they're - you know, they're trying, they're still trying to do their best work. And we know that there are so many of our colleagues there ...

CHUNG: Yes.

KEILAR: ... who are doing that. I mean, what do you say to them?

CHUNG: I would say that they have to fight the good fight, that they have to protect the legacy of CBS. They cannot allow biased owners because honestly, I don't think CBS is necessarily the culprit. The - what needs to be policed is social media, which have no fact checkers, podcasters and the like. No one is checking those facts.

And the problem is that that is inaccurate information that's being disseminated. I think that all of the changes that so far have occurred by Shari Redstone and the Ellisons are - I have difficulty believing what they claim, which is that the 60 MINUTES agreement had nothing to do with the merger or a settlement had nothing to do with the merger. And also that the disappearance of Steve Colbert had nothing to do - had only to do with financial issues. It all smells.

I think they should be putting ankle bracelets on - ankle monitors on certain anchors at certain cable stations in prime time. Those are the culprits.

KEILAR: And I wonder just more broadly, how you think the ability of journalists to cover Trump independently has changed since his first term?

CHUNG: Once again, Brianna. KEILAR: How, you know, other networks, of course, other journalists

are looking at this merger. So many things obviously have happened, right? And not just at CBS News. How do you think the ability of journalists to cover Trump independently has changed just broadly in recent years?

CHUNG: It is - you know, the period - the decade of greed was the 1980s. And that's when companies that owned networks acquiesced to the new owners, not the original owners who had felt a responsibility to journalism.

[15:25:00]

So, it already began in the 1980s when companies that were looking at the bottom line started out - started to only look at money - look at networks as money-making machines. Now, the extreme has occurred. I greatly fear the - that the pendulum cannot swing back. So, I want all of us who have been in journalism and are still in journalism to speak truth to power.

We cannot allow what we learned as journalists to - we can't cave, we just can't. That's what I believe. But I don't believe in opinion in news. There are just - there's no - I just want facts. And I think when I was crisscrossing the country promoting my memoir, I discovered that I would get applause when I would say, I just want facts. And I think there are many news organizations that just provide facts and label analysis as analysis. I don't want any bloviators.

So, I'm - since I'm out of the news business, I really feel that I can cross the line and not stay in my lane because I'm no longer a journalist. And I have some bona fides in journalism. And I want to be able to say that we in journalism and you, Brianna, who I respect tremendously, should just continue to fight the good fight and just tell the truth, just give facts.

KEILAR: Connie Chung, it is so wonderful to have you on the program today. Thank you so much for joining us.

CHUNG: I thank you for inviting me. And I appreciate many of those who work at CNN who just provide the facts. Thank you.

KEILAR: Thank you, Connie.

And still to come, we hear from the investigators who helped bring Bryan Kohberger to justice and what they still want to know about the murder of the four University of Idaho students.

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