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Trump Orders Firing of Labor Statistics Commissioner "Immediately" After Release of Weak Jobs Report; Ghislaine Maxwell Transferred to Minimum Security Federal Prison; Trump Says He's Ordered Positioning of Nuclear Submarines After "Highly Provocative" Remarks Made by Russia; Trump Interviews 4-Star General Candidates in Break from Tradition. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired August 01, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:01:34]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We begin this hour with breaking news. President Donald Trump now calling for the immediate firing of the woman who leads the group responsible for making monthly jobs reports. The President accusing her of manipulating today's new jobs report, he says, for political purposes.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yes. Before we get to the White House, here is the latest report generated by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. A weaker than expected 73,000 jobs were added in July, and May and June's numbers were significantly revised downward, each month dropping by more than 100,000 jobs compared to the numbers that were reported before.

So, let's go now to Jeff Zeleny.

Jeff, tell us more about what you're learning.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, if you don't like the message, fire the messenger. That is what this has become. President Trump is ordering the immediate firing of the Commissioner of Labor Statistics. That is the government employee who works out of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, who is in charge of producing the monthly jobs report. Dr. Erika McEntarfer has worked inside the government for about 20 years or so. She was nominated by President Biden, confirmed by the U.S. Senate back in 2024 by a very overwhelmingly bipartisan vote of 86 to 8. So, she has been working as the 16th Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, and she is responsible for producing this labor report.

But the President had been oddly silent for more than five hours after this pretty dismal jobs report came out, and then just in the last hour has called for her firing. He put a bit of explanation to it, saying this, "We need accurate jobs numbers." He wrote on social media, "I have directed my Team to fire this Biden Political Appointee, IMMEDIATELY." He writes, "She will be replaced with someone much more competent and qualified. Important numbers like this must be fair and accurate, they can't be manipulated for political purposes." Of course, that is exactly what President Trump is doing here, is firing someone because he does not like the jobs numbers that he saw. So, an overriding question here is, will any number ever be believed if a president can fire the Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics? But more important than the July report that was 73,000 jobs that were added, it was the revisions to May and June, revising downward by nearly a quarter of a million jobs that clearly stoked the President's anger. We have seen these revisions before. And one reason that job reports are revised month by month, because an initial survey is sent out, and that's what is initially reported. And then a deeper analysis is done of state unemployment reports and other surveys of businesses. And that is what produces the revised report.

We've seen presidents of both parties sort of burned and angry by these revised reports. And in Dr. McEntarfer's case, she has angered Democrats and Republicans alike with some jobs reports. So, aside from all that, President Trump calling for the firing of this government worker who oversees this jobs report certainly could have a chilling effect for the rest of the government.

[15:05:08]

But clearly, he's not happy with this jobs report. His own top economic official said it's not ideal. And, of course, coming at the time of his new tariff policy, it certainly is something of a one-two punch.

KEILAR: Yes. Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much for that report live for us from the White House.

We're joined by Robert Armstrong. He's a U.S. financial commentator for The Financial Times and CNN political director David Chalian.

David, the last time that we knew who the chairperson of the BLS was when? And we don't normally know because it's not normally a thing.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: There are two things here, just stepping back for a second, that I think are pretty clear. One, Donald Trump's kind of giving away the fact that this is not a healthy, like, robust, growing economy at the moment. It's a weakening economy, and he's freaked out about it, right? I mean, just by the behavior.

So, I mean, 106,000 jobs over the last three months added, like, that's not gangbusters. And he is, you know, concerned as he is selling his tariff policy that perhaps some of the predictions that a lot of economists made may come true here. They believe in what they're doing, but he's clearly rattled, right? So, that's one thing I think this shows.

Two, this is like - think about this, guys, from the world of politics, it's like firing your pollster for telling you that you're way behind in the race. It's like, no, these are just numbers and facts. And the BLS conducts these surveys, and obviously nothing is an exact science and surveys, but to get the best usable information for the government. And these statistics are used across a whole range of things that the government does. And so, to think that you're just going to fire - so what does that

mean? He's going to put in an ally now and he's going to get different numbers? If this is the economy, if this is how many jobs are being added, he's going to have to accept bad information from an ally next.

SANCHEZ: It's reminiscent of the COVID testing, right? The idea that we have so many cases because we're doing so many tests. So, if we do fewer tests, there'll be fewer cases, right?

Robert, I wonder, to David and Jeff's point, what happens to the U.S. economy and our understanding of it if you can't trust the numbers coming from the Department of Bureau and Labor Statistics?

ROBERT ARMSTRONG, U.S. FINANCIAL COMMENTATOR, FINANCIAL TIMES: One thing we've learned in the last couple of months of the Trump administration is that certainty really matters to business. And of course, this connects to what you mentioned earlier about the job numbers. With the revisions, we see that the May and June job numbers are really weak. Well, what happened in April just before those two months of weak job creation?

President Trump went into the Rose Garden with that big piece of poster board with this crazy, unexpected tariff policy written all over it. And we know from business surveys and, you know, other intelligence from the business community that everyone was freaked out. All the CEOs didn't know what was next. And what don't you do when you don't know what is coming next and you're feeling freaked out and policy is uncertain? You don't hire people, right?

And so, the two stories are connected. The employment picture is a product in some large part of uncertainty. And then you start firing these federal bureaucrats who are in charge of tracking the numbers. That's just another form of uncertainty you're creating that can't possibly have a good impact on growth.

KEILAR: Yes. And, you know, firing the BLS commissioner, who, by the way, happened to be in charge of the BLS when it also had the largest downward revision to job creation in 15 years when Biden was president. That's not, Robert, going to fix any economic problems, right? So, when you're looking at that, I mean, what does the President need to actually be focused on?

ARMSTRONG: I think, you know, we got to have two different debates. We've got to have a debate about what the right policy for the country is. But we also have to have a debate about how that policy is projected and communicated by this White House. And whatever you think about the content of the policies themselves, whether that be tax policy or tariffs or anything else, the way the information is released is not giving business people the certainty they need. And I think you are beginning to see that show up in the economic numbers here in recent months.

And if I could just add one other thing, Brianna, something that I don't want to get lost here is that the person the President is threatening to fire is a human being who he is just accused of doing something extremely, definitely illegal and wicked and morally wrong. [15:10:12]

And if he's just making that up, that's a human being who's being falsely accused of a serious crime.

SANCHEZ: That is a significant point. And we should tell our viewers, we just got word from our producers that the commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics has officially been fired now.

David, what kind of precedent does this set? I mean, he's not - to be clear - he's not provided any actual evidence here.

CHALIAN: Yes, well, and that is nothing new for Donald Trump, right?

SANCHEZ: Yes, fair point.

CHALIAN: I mean, this is behavior we've seen before and it feeds into this whole notion, you know, of the deep state and the concern that government officials are working against him. He accused this woman and this agency of cooking the books last year in the campaign to benefit Kamala Harris, again, without evidence, totally without evidence. And so, I take the point that, yes, this is a human being and Donald Trump is not a stranger to being impervious to that, as he seems to be here.

But my question is, what are you looking for, Mr. President, in return when you replace this person? Do you not want, as the chief executive, the best, most reliable data you can possibly get as you're making decisions about economic policy? Or do you just want a yes person who will change numbers to satisfy your PR desires?

That, I would think Donald Trump is still going to want the best possible information to drive the economy forward. He understands his presidency rests on that.

KEILAR: Yes, it certainly does.

David Chalian and Robert Armstrong, thank you so much to both of you. A very big moment that we're following here.

ARMSTRONG: Pleasure.

KEILAR: And we also have some other breaking news. We have reaction now to the sudden prison transfer of Jeffrey Epstein accomplice, convicted child sex trafficker, Ghislaine Maxwell. The family of the late Virginia Giuffre, along with two other Epstein and Maxwell accusers, says, quote, "This is the justice system failing victims right before our eyes. The American public should be enraged by the preferential treatment being given to a pedophile and a criminally charged child sex offender. The Trump administration would not credit a word Maxwell says, as the government itself sought charges against Maxwell for being a serial liar."

She was previously indicted for perjury, we should note.

SANCHEZ: Yes, the Bureau of Prisons confirms that Maxwell was moved from the prison in Florida, where she had been serving her 20-year term, to a lower security prison camp in Texas. And it would not give an explanation for the transfer. CNN Crime and Justice Correspondent Katelyn Polantz has been following the story closely.

And Katelyn, I think the backdrop of this is most significant. The fact that a week ago, she met in private with Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, a former personal attorney of President Donald Trump. Do we know if this move is connected to those meetings?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: We don't have an answer yet. And we are asking the Bureau of Prisons for more information about this move.

What we do know now, Boris and Brianna, is there's a question on the table. Is this because of leniency? Or is this because of security needed for Ghislaine Maxwell in the federal prison system? Or what other reason could there be? Those are the questions. Why is this move happening now?

That meeting came - it did mark a moment for Ghislaine Maxwell when she became open publicly to becoming a cooperator. Since then, her attorneys have offered for her to testify to Congress in exchange for a level of immunity. There is a request that perhaps she wants a pardon or some sort of clemency from the President.

But what we know that has happened inside the federal prison system is that she was in Florida in a Tallahassee low security prison. That's the type of prison that can house violent offenders. It's a type of prison with a double fence around the perimeter, like you would expect to see in photos of a prison. That sort of prison could have become a place that may be unsafe for her potentially, or that would not be the most comfortable place for her in the federal prison system. That's according to a prison consultant I talked to just a few minutes ago who is not working for her directly, but has a very good understanding of the system.

Now, she's in a federal prison in Bryan, Texas, outside of Austin. That's a minimal security camp. A camp is a place that doesn't have that sort of double protective fence around it. It has nonviolent white-collar offenders. She would also be considered that. The type of offenders who you may recognize their names. People like Jen Shah, who was on the TV show "Real Housewives of Salt Lake City." Also, Elizabeth Holmes, formerly of the blood testing company Theranos.

So, now Ghislaine Maxwell would be around women who are much lower risk, women who are unlikely to be violent because they do not have a history of violence around them.

[15:15:07]

They would not be gang members, for instance, but also it does create a situation where it's much more comfortable for her. And a reminder, she's not that far into serving this sentence that she has a 20-year sentence for sex trafficking of minors. She has a long time left in this sentence, but a lot of questions remain of exactly what's going on with her in the system right now. How was that cooperation negotiated and what may be to come for Ghislaine Maxwell?

KEILAR: Yes, very interesting story. Katelyn Polantz, thank you so much for the latest there.

Still to come, President Trump ordering nuclear submarines to be repositioned after highly provocative remarks from Russia. We'll have that.

SANCHEZ: Plus, a medication you likely have in your medicine cabinet right now is in question over its efficacy. Why experts say that Benadryl's risks outweigh its benefits.

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[15:20:22]

KEILAR: Now to breaking news from the White House. President Trump says he's ordering two nuclear submarines to be strategically positioned in response to what he called highly provocative statements from the deputy chairman of Russia's security council. On Thursday, Dmitry Medvedev referenced Russia's Soviet-era automatic retaliatory nuclear strike capabilities after Trump told him to, quote, "watch his words."

We're joined now by former defense secretary and former CIA director Leon Panetta.

Secretary, thank you so much for being with us. Your reaction to this move by President Trump and its public announcement?

LEON PANETTA, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF, CLINTON ADMINISTRATION: Well, Brianna, this is nothing new. Obviously, Putin has threatened with his nuclear capabilities for a long time, particularly with regards to Ukraine. We now have Medvedev, who's using these kinds of provocative words to somehow indicate to the United States that Russia does have nuclear capabilities.

In the past, we've largely ignored those kinds of statements. But I think the President was right here to say that they are provocative, that they are threatening, they should not be used. And he's sending a message to them by basically redeploying these nuclear submarines. I think it's the right message to send to Russia.

KEILAR: How does Russia see it?

PANETTA: Well, Russia, I think if they think about it, are going to hear a message that we do not like being bullied when it comes to nuclear weapons. And that's a good message to send to Putin, because he oftentimes becomes very careless and very threatening with regards to his nuclear capabilities. That's unacceptable. And so, I'm glad we're sending a strong message back to Putin. I'm glad this president is sending a strong message back to Putin.

KEILAR: It's also - we should look at the timing of this, right? You have Trump announcing that Steve Witkoff, who's a special envoy, is going to be traveling to Russia here in the coming days. Trump's new deadline for Putin to reach a ceasefire with Ukraine is coming due next week. So, taking this kind of move at this point in time, what message does that send?

PANETTA: Well, you know, I think we found out for a long time that Putin doesn't always listen to words. He listens to actions. And so, redeploying these submarines is an action. I think he's going to be made aware that the United States is not going to take these words lightly. I hope that President Trump will take decisive action with regards to Putin in Ukraine.

We - now, he's been dragging us on for a long time. He continues to attack the Ukrainians. He's not paying attention to any offer to engage in a ceasefire. I frankly think the time has come for the United States to implement a strong sanctions policy against Russia. That's the kind of action that Putin needs to hear.

KEILAR: I want to ask you about something that the AP is reporting, which is that President Trump is now meeting with four-star general nominees before their promotions are finalized. And the White House told the AP, quote, "President Trump wants to ensure our military is the greatest and most lethal fighting force in history, which is why he meets with four-star-general nominees directly to ensure they are warfighters first and not bureaucrats."

Of course, there have been a lot of questions about potential politicization of the military, including at high ranks. And I wonder if this interview process raises any concerns for you.

PANETTA: Well, I - you know, as a former Secretary of Defense, the ultimate decider of who becomes a general to the highest ranks in our military is a decision that rests with the President of the United States. And so, I don't have a real problem having the President interview those that are being nominated to become a general.

[15:25:04]

And I do think that we've got to be careful. We'll have to watch and see what decisions are made. But these are individuals who come up through the ranks. I think most of them are highly qualified to become generals in the military. So, I'm not worried about the quality of individuals that will go before him. And, you know, to some extent, I think it's okay for the President to have that kind of interview process take place, because it's his decision to make.

KEILAR: Leon Panetta, it is always great to get your perspective. Thank you so much for being with us.

PANETTA: Good to be with you.

KEILAR: Next, doctors say it is time to move on from Benadryl. They're warning that the common allergy medication is too risky.

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