Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Trump To Name New BLS Chief After Firing Previous One Over Jobs Report; Texas Dems Leave State To Fight Trump-Backed Redistricting Plan; Rep. Sam Liccardo (D-CA) On Dems Threatened Probe If Harvard Settles With Trump. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired August 04, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. New this morning what The Wall Street Journal calls the "Bureau of Labor Denial." The president said he will name a new head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics in the next three or four days. He fired the old one after a jobs report showed a far weaker economy than the president likes to claim.

Without a shred of evidence the president accused Dr. Erika McEntarfer of manipulating the jobs report for "political purposes." Of course, he issued no such complaints when there were better than expected jobs reports.

The Wall Street Journal adds for good measure, "The reality of slowing job growth is clear to anyone paying attention."

Let's get right to CNN's Alayna Treene at the White House -- a disgruntled White House, shall we say.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah. And this has really been, of course, something that is catching a lot of people off guard and has really been the source of what people here are referring to as a scandal over the weekend.

Now, as you mentioned, the president said that he is expected to name a new head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics this week. He made those comments when boarding Air Force One last night. Listen to how he put it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're seeing phenomenal numbers in terms of the business we do with other countries and the business we do within our own country. I mean, really phenomenal numbers. We'll be announcing a new statistician sometime over the next three or four days. We had no confidence. I mean, the numbers were ridiculous -- what she announced. But that was just one negative number.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: Now John, those comments come, of course, in the wake of his firing on Friday of the head of the BLS after Friday's worse than expected job numbers. And the president claimed essentially in doing so that he believed that the data we saw from those job numbers, specifically, were politically rigged. That essentially they were cooking the books to make him look back. That was -- those were his exact words.

But I will remind you as well that it's generally believed that the BLS is kind of the gold standard for economic data.

Now, we've since seen economists, investors, lawmakers, John, all sound the alarm about whether or not this is really calling into question the impartiality of the agency. BLS, of course, is known to be apolitical and again, like I said, the gold standard when it comes to this type of economic data.

Now we did hear the president's national economic director -- council director, I should say, Kevin Hassett, yesterday trying to defend the president here. He was asked specifically whether or not the president is prepared to fire anyone who he believes is going against him. Who is putting out information that he doesn't like. Hassett tried to tamp that down and instead said he really wants his own people there.

But again, not much evidence to prove that what the president is saying that this was somehow political. That they were working the numbers -- rigging the job numbers to try and be political against him. There's just no evidence to prove that.

Now, what I am told that the president took specific issue with, John, is the revisions we saw, particularly in May and June. The revisions down in the job numbers. That is what really angered the president.

And unlike what we've seen now with how this White House and really the top officials here have responded to questions of trying to fire Fed chair Jerome Powell, for example, they told the president that he could fire Dr. Erika McEntarfer -- essentially saying that she serves at the pleasure of the president. I'd remind you that she was appointed, of course, by the former President Joe Biden.

But one thing as well that I want to remind you of is she was actually confirmed in the Senate at a vote of 86-8. I mean, that just does not happen routinely. And J.D. Vance, then a senator, as well as Marco Rubio, also then a senator, both voted in favor of her then.

So all to say I think it's unclear what's really going to happen here. We have heard from some in Congress that they want to investigate these numbers further. But the thing about these job numbers and these different data reports that we see every month, sometimes people argue that there's too much stock put into them. But they really are kind of the underpinning of the economy.

We see people make policy decisions based off that. It's really a driver of determining where the economy is going. And when you chip away at the trust there, which is exactly what the president is doing, it leads to potentially a lot of instability.

And so we'll have to see what happens here. But like we said at the top, the president said he's committed to appointing a new commissioner of the BLS midweek in the three to four days -- John.

BERMAN: Yeah. Those downed revisions paint a whole different picture of this economy than the White House has been portraying.

Alayna Treene at the White House this morning. Thank you very much -- Omar.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Well John, new CNN reporting this morning. There is growing concern inside the White House about the outsized influence of far-right activist Laura Loomer. Now Loomer, who calls herself Trump's loyalty enforcer, is gaining power in his second term. She is targeting staffers as well and pushing out anyone she sees as disloyal to the president.

When she was asked -- when asked, I should say, about her, this is what the president said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: What is your relationship with Laura Loomer? What kind of influence --

TRUMP: With who?

REPORTER: With Laura Loomer. What kind of influence does she have in the White House?

[07:35:00]

TRUMP: I think she's very nice. I mean, I know she's known as a radical right, but I think Laura Loomer is a very nice person. I've known her for a long time. And, you know, personally, I think she's a patriot and she gets excited because of the fact that she's a patriot and she doesn't like things going on that she thinks are bad for the country. I like her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: CNN's Steve Contorno joins us now. So Steve, can you just explain a little bit about who Laura Loomer is and why her relationship is a significant dynamic to watch here?

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Omar, Laura Loomer is certainly one of the more controversial figures in Donald Trump's orbit, but her influence is undeniable. She has more than 1.7 million followers on X. She has a podcast and video show. And through these online forums she is constantly bringing awareness to people in Trump's orbit and inside his administration that she feels are disloyal.

She finds posts on social media and past voting registration, and other details that might suggest that there are partisans working for Trump.

Just in the last week alone she took credit for the ouster of the country's top vaccine regulator -- someone put in place under RFK Jr., a national security lawyer, and a cybersecurity expert that was tapped for a post at West Point.

And when I -- when I talk to her -- and I've had several conversations with her in recent weeks -- what is most striking is that she is more exasperated than triumphant over some of what she calls her "scalps." And that is because 1) she sees a White House failing to do enough to protect Donald Trump from information and loyal -- disloyalists that she says are within the ranks. And 2) because she thinks she could do a better job than the people who are currently vetting the White House, and she believes, and she has asked for a job inside the administration to start rooting out some of these individuals.

She spoke a little bit about this on Friday on her show. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA LOOMER, FAR-RIGHT ACTIVIST: You know, perhaps I'm meant to be on the outside, you know? Maybe there's a reason why I'm on the outside. Perhaps I wouldn't be able to do all this work if I was on the inside working in some kind of official capacity within the White House or working as some kind of official government employee. I'd be bound by the rules and the regulations of the federal government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CONTORNO: Now, Loomer says that she would like to see President Trump fire more people, something he did quite frequently in his first term. She has even said that some cabinet secretaries should be on the hotseat.

She has called repeatedly for the ouster of Attorney General Pam Bondi, but she's also frustrated by agriculture secretary Brooke Rollins who she thinks is responsible for Trump's softer tone on deporting farmworkers and hotel workers who might be undocumented. She also has been specifically looking for people who are working under RFK Jr.

Now we did go to those agencies and ask them what their thoughts are on Loomer, and they did not get back to us. But one secretary who is embattled, Pete Hegseth who leads the Pentagon -- he has had conversations in recent weeks with Laura Loomer about some of her findings. And we took that to the Pentagon and asked them for confirmation and they said yes, that she has had conversations with Hegseth who "appreciates Laura Loomer's outside advocacy" -- Omar.

JIMENEZ: Steve Contorno, appreciate the reporting as always -- John.

BERMAN: All right. With us now CNN political commentator Bakari Sellers, and Republican strategist Melik Abdul.

And gentlemen, I want to shift back to what's happening in Texas. Maybe out of Texas is a better way of describing it this morning because Texas Statehouse Democrats have left the state, most going to Illinois, some going to New York some to Boston. They're trying to break quorum so that there can't be a redistricting vote inside Texas, which could very well swing control of the U.S. House to the Republicans or keep it in their hands in 2026.

Bakari Sellers, to you. Talk to me about the dynamics at play here because there are many different levels to this.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, (D) FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA STATE REPRESENTATIVE (via Webex by Cisco): : Yeah, I think it's fascinating. I think very rarely do you see the underpinnings of state government at work.

I was a state legislator in a past life, and I actually participated in a walkout before. I walked out of the legislature when the Republicans had a majority and there were certain things that we didn't want to do, and that was the only thing we could do is break quorum.

You look at what's happening on the 2026 level where we're going to have the possibility for Democrats to take back the House. That's so very important and you're doing to see the dynamics between Gavin Newsom and the governor of New York versus the governor of Texas.

But then what I find to be the most sexy is Governor Pritzker, and I don't even think Pritzker and sexy have been put in the same sentence before.

[07:40:00]

BERMAN: Yeah.

SELLERS: But what he's doing right now -- the wealth that he has, the ability to bring these individuals to Chicago, playing these kind of games, showmanship, pushing back is what Democrats want with some substance. I think it's a multifaceted, intriguing story.

BERMAN: Melik, who blinks here?

MELIK ABDUL, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Look this is something that we've seen before, and your reporting earlier talked about the fact that this happened in 2021. And ironically, the person who was involved in that 2021 effort -- and I think they came to Washington, D.C. -- was Jasmine Crockett. So I imagine you're probably having a number of people who would be looking at a congressional seat.

But the larger problem is that it really does represent the issue with the Democratic Party which is at this point more -- less popular than both Donald Trump and the Republican Party. Democrats are in search of a leader. And so at this point the only thing that they've been able to do since Donald Trump was -- became president literally is protest. So this is just another example of that. I don't think that it's going to work out in the end though.

BERMAN: Bakari, is this about fighting or is this about winning?

SELLERS: This is about fighting. I mean, I think that, with all due respect to my colleague this morning, I mean, we don't really have to do much to Donald Trump at this point in time. The economy is in shambles. Everything is going backwards. The wars that he was supposed to be elected to end -- the five wars as he calls them -- around the country are raging out of control.

There's really not much for us to do in terms of policy to stop Donald Trump. He stops himself. Hell, he has Laura Loomer as one of his advisers.

But this is about fighting and showing that we can fight. And to be honest, Governor Pritzker is putting up that fight. Where other governors are more performative, he's actually being very substantive in fighting back.

BERMAN: Melik, about the jobs report -- and we'll put the firing of the statistician to the side here. But you have these new jobs figures from May and June that were just anemic -- 19,000, 14,000.

How does that reframe really the entire economic argument that this White House has been making?

ABDUL: Well, first of all, the numbers itself is absolutely staggering. The fact that we are probably -- we were almost over 200,000 off, that is something that typically does not happen. Of course, revisions happen every single time with BLS, but we are looking at something different here.

And Donald Trump -- I don't agree with Donald Trump's decision to fire the commissioner but obviously this is something that he can do.

If you look at what a lot of the reporting is, whether that's Axios or other outlets, what they're talking about is that those -- the explanation that they're having for the loss of job numbers actually is because of the immigration policies of Donald Trump.

So I suspect what's happening is that maybe the administration really doesn't want to talk about the fact that although the immigration policies have been successful -- shutting the border down, and there is a lot of support for that -- there is also the push -- well, what's happening in the businesses. And so I suspect that Donald Trump probably won't be happy until this kind of levels off.

But none of this will matter until February of next year, which -- and March, of course, the beginning of the midterm cycle.

BERMAN: I will say deportation has a larger impact on the unemployment number because it chances the denominator when you're factoring the unemployment rates, which did tick up also. Jobs created, jobs lost maybe not as much.

But Bakari, to the point of just, again, reframing -- because the last three months has all been about this White House saying hey, the numbers are good despite everyone saying that the sky would fall after the president's tariffs. The numbers not so good.

SELLERS: Yeah, no. And I think that immigration doesn't have much to do with job creation. But what we are seeing are that industries that usually have substantive job growth -- you look closely at things like manufacturing -- are just leveling off, right, if not decreasing. And what we're seeing is the president's core tenants -- and what I've

-- what I've echoed many mornings on this show before -- is competence and consistency, something that this White House hasn't shown. We're actually seeing that in these markets because we don't have competency, because we don't have consistency. And the best example to give you are tariffs. You're starting to see an economy be really, really hurt.

The last thing I'll tell you, John, is that the best economic indicator to look at -- and I love the cosmopolitan, and I love to gamble enough -- is Las Vegas, Nevada. And what you're seeing also is Las Vegas, Nevada tourism going down. You're starting to see those jobs being lost in Las Vegas, Nevada. And because of that, that's also an indicator not just of a bad economy but of "R" word that Republicans are running away from, which is maybe we're on the brink of a recession.

BERMAN: Melik, how nervous do you think the White House got? I saw them acting in ways I hadn't seen them before starting right here on this show where you had one of the president's chief economic advisers basically admit, yeah, this economic report worse than we wanted.

ADBUL: Well, this is something that the White House have to -- actually has to deal with. It's one thing to have the rhetoric or the talking points around these things but at the end of the day the data really does matter. So whether Donald Trump agrees or disagrees with the data, the data is what the data is.

[07:45:05]

And so I think that obviously they have to be concerned about that because as I mentioned, the midterm cycle actually begins -- votes begin in March. So as much as the administration and many Republicans may push back on this it is something that has to be a concern for many voters because that economic anxiety that existed that elected Donald Trump in 2024 -- it will exist next year. So obviously, the administration has to be concerned.

BERMAN: Melik Abdul, Bakari Sellers, thanks so much for being with us this Monday morning -- Omar.

JIMENEZ: Well John, still ahead why Democrats are threatening an investigation into Harvard over a potential deal with President Trump. We'll talk about it coming up.

Plus, new videos coming in overnight showing what is now called California's second-largest wildfire of the year. You can see some of the beginnings here behind me. We have new details about evacuations that are happening right now.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:50:05]

BERMAN: Happening now, evacuation orders are underway in Southern California from the second-largest fire of the year there. It has burned through 50,000 acres in Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo counties and is only about three percent contained. Triple-digit temperatures and 30-mile-per-hour winds could make the situation worse by this afternoon.

Actress Loni Anderson has passed away at the age of 79. She was a beloved star of "WKRP IN CINCINNATI" in the '70s and '80s.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Clip from "WKRP IN CINCINNATI."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Anderson earned two Emmys and three Golden Globe nominations playing the iconic Jennifer Marlow.

Her publicist said she passed away Sunday after a prolonged illness.

Breaking overnight, 3,200 Boeing workers who build fighter jets are on strike. Employees at three facilities in the St. Louis area went on strike at midnight after rejecting a four-year labor agreement. This is the second strike at Boeing in less than a year -- Omar.

JIMENEZ: A group of congressional Democrats who attended Harvard are threatening to investigate Harvard if the university strikes a deal with President Trump. In a two-page letter sent to the school's president the lawmakers expressed "deep concern" over reports of a possible $500 million settlement with the White House.

Now, the letter comes in the wake of financial settlements with Columbia and Brown Universities. And an agreement on policy changes with the University of Pennsylvania.

The in letter my next guest writes, "Each institution of higher learning that acquiesces to the Trump administration's demands for control over higher education becomes complicit in its authoritarian governance."

And joining me now is California Democrat, Rep. Sam Liccardo. Thank you for taking the time.

So let's talk about this letter. What is your biggest concern about the settlements with Columbia and Brown Universities and on Harvard potentially striking something similar?

REP. SAM LICCARDO (D-CA) (via Webex by Cisco): Well, we all know that free societies and dynamic economies really depend on the independence of their universities and on academic freedom. And Harvard, of course, is the most well-known university in the nation, if not the world.

This is a clear, critical decision for the future of academic freedom in this country. And frankly, when you capitulate you become complicit.

And we see authoritarian efforts by this administration in a whole host of different ways and this attack on our universities is just right out of the authoritarian playbook.

So we need the strong to stand up in societies like this that are under assault from authoritarian regimes. And as a Sicilian American I know a little bit about the threats when you simply give in to the demands of the capo who is demanding payment or a pizza. Pizzo as they say in Sicily. We need the strong to stand up so that all the other institutions of higher learnings and thousands of other universities who are far more vulnerable will also stand up.

JIMENEZ: You know, at the core of, I guess, the Trump administration's push here has seemed to mainly stem from the campus protests we saw at a number of schools protesting the war in Gaza and over antisemitism happening on campus. We also saw many Islamophobic incidents as well. But there were also broad complaints even outside of that, that the group think at these schools was swayed too far in a liberal direction.

Lawsuit and potential settlement aside, did you think there were areas that needed to improve in the Harvard or elite university culture -- and if so, what are they?

LICCARDO: Well, I think there's always fair room for criticism about how universities have engaged in group think in recent decades, and that may be very fair but that's part of an active political discourse in our country.

And the way that we punish universities that we don't agree with is we don't sign up to attend. We choose to go somewhere else. We ensure that there is a fair marketplace of ideas out there who support other universities. But the approach should not be from the government to decide who wins or who loses in this exchange of ideas.

JIMENEZ: Hmm.

I want to talk about a wider Democratic effort because as I'm -- as I'm sure you've seen, Texas state Democrats have fled the state to prevent Texas Republicans from reaching a quorum in their attempts to redraw congressional maps in a way that could net Republicans up to five congressional seats. There's been a lot of talk about California doing the same.

Is that something you support even as some argue Democrats overrepresent what they typically poll votes-wise in your state?

[07:55:00]

LICCARDO: Yeah. Look, I think two things can be true in this situation. Any system in which politicians pick their votes rather than vice-versa is inherently a severely flawed one if not corrupt. At the same time I appreciate what Governor Newsom is saying, which is you can't take a knife into a gunfight.

And Trump has been violating every law and norm in the book to consolidate his power. He's obviously put enormous pressure on Texas and other states -- not just putting pressure; they're actually redrawing the maps right there in the White House. We know other states are under similar pressure.

California is in a very tough spot. I have been, frankly, watching this play out because I think the threat of California using its might in this way is far preferable to the action of actually doing so because I believe in independent redistricting commissions. I'd like to see the entire nation adopt an independent redistricting commission so we can get beyond all these politics.

JIMENEZ: So just to be clear, the threat -- you prefer the threat as opposed to any action that would be carried out on the redistricting. You might have a different assessment if we got to that point.

LICCARDO: Yeah, absolutely. Look, I think that Texas Democrats are doing everything they can to stall this illicit process, and we have to do all we can to support them and other conscientious members of state legislatures who want to stand up against this kind of inappropriate redrawing the lines.

Again, Donald Trump shouldn't be picking which voters get to vote for his candidates and which ones don't. That should be up to an independent authority.

JIMENEZ: Congressman Sam Liccardo, I appreciate the time this morning. Thanks for being here.

BERMAN: This morning ceasefire negotiations between Israel and Hamas seem to have hit a wall. One Israeli official tells CNN there is a growing belief that Hamas is not interested in reaching a deal and that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is pushing for freeing the remaining hostages by utter military defeat of Hamas.

This comes as global pressure mounts on Israel over the hunger crisis in Gaza and rising domestic pressure to secure the hostages still held there.

This is what the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said after new disturbing propaganda videos were released by Hamas showing two captives looking emaciated and weak.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): You see them wasting away in a dungeon, but the Hamas monsters surrounding them have thick, fleshy arms. They have everything they need to eat. They are starving them the way the Nazis starved the Jews. And when I see this, I understand exactly what Hamas wants. It doesn't want a deal; it wants to break us through these horrifying videos and through the false propaganda it spreads around the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: With us now Admiral James Stavridis, former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO and partner of the Carlyle Group, an international investment firm. Admiral, thanks so much for being with us.

So Israel and the United States now, the reporting is, pushing for just an all or nothing deal. All the hostages, Hamas disarm, or Israel presumably what?

ADMIRAL JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST, FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER, VICE CHAIR, GLOBAL AFFAIRS, AND PARTNER, CARLYLE, AUTHOR, "THE ADMIRAL'S BOOKSHELF" (via Webex by Cisco): Well, what we see are two things that are true at the same time, John. One is a humanitarian crisis of increasingly ghastly proportion and frankly, Hamas can match video for video with pictures of the children in Gaza. That is a true humanitarian crisis. It needs to be alleviated. It's the responsibility of Israel to figure out how to do that because they are the military power in control of most of Gaza.

It is also true that Hamas is a horrific terrorist organization. You're showing visual proof of it right now. And frankly, the Israelis have every right to continue to respond vigorously to the attacks they faced two years ago.

So where do we go? And I think at this time point Hamas is the problem. Hamas is simply watching the increasing international pressure on the Israelis and if that continues Hamas will continue to be a major roadblock to any kind of ceasefire.

BERMAN: We just learned that the chief Mideast negotiator for the United States, Steve Witkoff, who also have Russia and Ukraine in his portfolio -- he's been in the Middle East. We understand he could be in Russia as soon as Wednesday. This comes as President Trump has had some of his toughest words for Vladimir Putin lately.

One wonders what Witkoff will be able to accomplish there. What are your expectations?

STAVRIDIS: It's all about Putin. And frankly, everything I can see what Putin is doing as I've said before is kind of playing rope-a- dope. He speaks nicely and pleasantly to President Trump and then he doesn't give an inch. He won't come to the table. He won't negotiate.