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Interview With State Rep. John Bucy (D-TX); New Audio Released From United Mayday Call; Trump Defends Firing of BLS Commissioner; Democratic Lawmakers Flee Texas. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired August 04, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Tex-mess. Democrats fleeing the state to dodge a redistricting vote. Now the governor is threatening to put them out of a job if they don't return today.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Plus, the president says the jobs report is rigged, while economists argue that is simply not true. As the White House stokes uncertainty about economic data, we're looking at exactly how officials gather those numbers.

Plus, a woman who is once going to testify against Sean "Diddy" Combs as victim number three now argues the rap mogul should be released on bail.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here in CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: Texas holdup. State Democrats defying Governor Greg Abbott's demand that they show up for a key vote in three hours on a Republican redistricting map. Abbott is threatening to remove them from the state House after they fled Texas in protest.

Democrats could lose five seats in the U.S. House if Texas Republicans backed by President Trump get their way. They want to redraw the state's congressional map and upend the balance of power in Washington in the 2026 midterms.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is live in Austin for us here.

And, Ed, a vote in Texas can't happen today without the required number of Democrats there. That's why it's called a quorum break and it's looking like it's going to happen. What's the latest?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are just outside the House chamber here inside the Texas capitol. You can really take to the bank that these Democrats will not be here at 3:00, many of them flown to Chicago, New York, some of them going to Massachusetts to push the message that they believe that this redistricting effort in Texas is not just wrong, but a threat to democracy.

That is the theme that they continue to hammer away at. But they're doing that as Republicans have also ratcheted up the rhetoric as well, the governor of Texas essentially threatening to remove these lawmakers from office, saying that they were vacating their seats and threatening to appoint other members in their place.

There are also allegations that the Democrats could be engaging in bribery by accepting donations to cover the cost of leaving the state as well. The attorney general and some other lawmakers also urging the speaker of the House to issue civil arrest warrants for the lawmakers that are not here.

The intensity of this rhetoric is already very heated. And, Brianna, it is only going to continue. This is what some of the Democrats who are outside of Texas are saying today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STATE REP. ANN JOHNSON (D-TX): Republicans keep changing the game, not only changing the game but changing the field midway through the game. We constitutionally, the Texas Constitution says you redraw districts once every 10 years. That's the norm. People need to know this is not normal.

STATE REP. GENE WU (D-TX): We really didn't have a choice. We tried to negotiate Republicans. We tried to talk to them. We tried to be -- we tried to reason with them. We tried to tell them that the public is very angry at what they're doing, and they simply wouldn't listen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: Many Republicans also saying that these Democrats are cowards for leaving the state.

The Democrats, as you have heard there, feel that they are on the moral high ground on this particular issue. I have heard that kind of expression from several contacts over the last few days as the plans have been in the works for this moment to come here after the redistricting plan and map was put out just last week that the way it's drawn now would essentially possibly give Republicans five new congressional seats here from the state of Texas.

And, Brianna, it's clear for Democrats they know eventually the writing is on the wall here. They will not have the votes to stop this. We are in the middle of a special session. There's about two weeks left, so they would have to be gone at least that long.

But then the governor of Texas can continue to call other special sessions. So, eventually, unless these lawmakers are essentially willing to be gone for months and months, if not years, the likelihood of them being able to block this redistricting effort is very difficult.

[13:05:14] But they feel like ratcheting up the pressure, getting out there in front of this and the public relations and the messaging campaign, that that will ratchet up pressure and get their point across before they return here to the state of Texas -- Brianna.

KEILAR: They are getting a lot of attention for it.

Ed Lavandera in Austin, thank you so much -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: President Trump today doubling down on his rationale for firing the commissioner for the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

In a new TRUTH Social post, he says without evidence that the latest jobs report was rigged, arguing that revisions to the report were massive and record-setting in favor of Democrats.

Now White House economic adviser Kevin Hassett is echoing the president's claims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: They could be politically manipulated because they're so untransparent. There's a black box system out there making the jobs numbers that needs to be improved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: A point of fact, the revisions made by the BLS in the recent jobs report were neither unprecedented, nor any evidence of corruption has been shown by the White House. And while Hassett says there is a lack of transparency, we actually do have a fair amount of information about how the sausage is made, so to speak.

So let's take you how through the BLS collects its data. It's two separate surveys. The first one is largely done the old-school way, door-knocking. Survey takers go home to home, door to door throughout the entire country, asking people for general demographic information and also their employment status.

The second survey known as the Current Employment Statistics survey is gathered from thousands of businesses and government agencies. The CES, as it's known, uses a variety of methods, including telephone and Internet surveys, as was automated data from large corporations. The CES survey is voluntary, but businesses in three states and Puerto Rico are required to submit data by law.

So what exactly is handed over to the BLS? They get total monthly employment, total hours work and earnings data for all paid workers. Statisticians then look for any processing or reporting errors. And if any mistakes are flagged, BLS then goes back to the business for clarification.

Once that process is done, the agency's economists do some math, some educated estimates based on seasonal hiring trends, formulas that take into account seasonal adjustments to avoid outliers, huge spikes in dips in data each month. And we should note these calculations aren't some secret. BLS literally publishes this on their Web site under their handbook of methods.

So there is transparency. But then why are there these revisions that go back to previous monthly reports? Well, it's because the BLS considers its preliminary jobs report to be just that, preliminary. In other words, it's a very educated prognostication that gets refined as more data comes in.

It could be that some respondents fail to report specifics by the deadline. A low number of responses as well, less data, could mean more varied estimates and a broader margin of error. The data could also be revised because of seasonal adjustments. And if these numbers come in well above or below preliminary data, that then requires recalculations, which means revisions.

So, if we look at revisions in recent years, does it justify the president's claim? Does the math show that any sign -- there is any sign of political bias? In the last few years, we have seen some very large revisions. They're not without precedent, though.

During the pandemic, jobs numbers were all over the place. Revision in four months during those years were certainly bigger than the revisions from last month's report, including the largest revision ever, 679,000 jobs downward for March of 2020. That was attributed to poor survey responses obviously during a nationwide lockdown.

There have also been significantly bigger revisions outside of the pandemic too, including for a single month, January of 2009, 143,000 jobs downward. This, of course, was amid that financial meltdown.

Now, look, gathering this data is a bit like forecasting weather. You can take the best data that you can gather, consider historical trends and develop a strong hypothesis. Then, by the next day, you will actually have a good idea of whether it was sunny or stormy. We should also note the business and government employment survey is widely considered by economists to be the gold standard.

And as one former BLS official tells CNN, dismissing their work outright could have lasting impacts on the bureau and the country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM BEACH, FORMER U.S. COMMISSIONER OF LABOR STATISTICS: I know the people who work there. They are some of the most loyal Americans you can imagine. They have worked in every kind of political circumstance. They are completely devoted to producing the very best gold standard data possible.

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And that's why BLS is the finest statistical agency in the entire world. Its numbers are trusted all over the world. So I will trust those numbers. I do believe, though, that the president's attack on the commissioner and on the bureau is undermining that infrastructure. (END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Let's dig deeper on this with Dan Koh. He was the Labor Department chief of staff under President Biden, oversaw the Bureau of Labor Statistics. He's now the host of "The People's Cabinet" podcast.

Dan, thank you so much for being with us.

If you could just fact-check the fact-check real quick, is there anything that you think needs further clarification for the folks that are looking at this data and wondering if it's politicized?

DAN KOH, FORMER LABOR DEPARTMENT CHIEF OF STAFF: I think it's worth reemphasizing that there are hundreds of thousands of inputs into the data every month. Let's take a step back at the implication that this was faked, OK?

It would have to be a conspiracy of national proportions for something like that to happen, the hundreds of thousands of inputs, the 2,000 people at the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The timeline also for the commissioner itself, on a Wednesday before the Friday it's released, that's the first time the commissioner sees the data.

The next day, the president and his senior team are briefed on it. And then Friday morning at 8:30 a.m., the numbers are released. So there really isn't any time to be cooking the books to begin with.

SANCHEZ: I also want to ask you about the so-called black box that Kevin Hassett was talking about. There are these formulas and these estimates -- estimates, I should say, that are based on calculations regarding seasonal adjustments.

It is on the BLS Web site, but I wonder, in layman's terms, what does it all mean? What do they actually do?

KOH: You can think about it the same way people do polls, right? You go out and you have a sample size then you extrapolate based on the sample. It's no different from that.

It's based on sound statistical science. It's something that has been the methodology for a very long time, Republican or Democrat.

SANCHEZ: So then why was this revision for May and June, more than a quarter-million jobs overreported? Why?

KOH: Because that happens. It happens under Republican commissioners. it happens under Democrat commissioners. The reality is, as I mentioned, hundreds of thousands of statistics come back, and it's incomplete. Some of it doesn't come back in time, right? And so it's actually the responsible thing to do to take a look at the more complete data and then figure out what is the most accurate jobs numbers, even if it is months later.

SANCHEZ: Did you have any concerns about Commissioner McEntarfer's performance when she led BLS? KOH: Absolutely not. And I had no concerns about Commissioner Beach,

who was the Trump appointee that we inherited. It's important to point out too that the term length is four years.

And so oftentimes these commissioners traverse administrations that are of different parties. We never suspected any malfeasance. We had downward revisions as well when we were -- when President Biden was in office, and we realized that was just part of the data. Not once did we question his competence or his accuracy.

SANCHEZ: And even then, if the commissioner wanted to, to the point you made earlier, they only have that data for so long before it comes out to the public. So any semblance of cooking the books, I mean, that would prove exceedingly difficult for any person to manage, right?

KOH: And what's really important to look at now is for, whoever is the replacement, not just the qualifications, but the methodology they claim they want to espouse going forward, because if they decide they want to try to do a new kind of data collection and bring in outside vendors to help run it, that leaves tremendous corruption exposure, because you're talking about RFPs.

Certain affiliations with the president could get rich as a result. These are the things that we really need to pay close attention to.

SANCHEZ: What happens if we can't trust the data that's coming from BLS? I mean, I imagine that portends potentially disastrous outcomes for our understanding of where the economy is.

KOH: Trillions of dollars of investment in this country is determined on the full faith and credit of the United States. If all of a sudden people don't trust the government's ability to be honest about this, our dollar becomes weaker and then the price in which we can pay to acquire our goods becomes that much more expensive for Americans.

We saw this. We have evidence of this. Argentina and Turkey were both accused of manipulating their jobs data and economic indicators, and we saw economic calamity as a result. So that's why all of us should be concerned. This may not be as well-known as firing Jerome Powell, who he also called to be fired in that same tweet, by the way, but it should be just as serious for people.

SANCHEZ: Dan Koh, so great to get your perspective. Thank you for joining us.

KOH: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Still plenty more news to come on NEWS CENTRAL. We have more on the political standoff in Texas. The governor is saying that Democratic lawmakers fleeing the state in a desperate bid to block redistricting have fewer than three hours to return, or else.

Plus, hear the moment a United Airlines pilot issues a mayday call just minutes after takeoff. What led to an emergency landing with more than 200 people aboard? And, later, a letter of support for Sean "Diddy" Combs, why a woman

formerly known as victim three is now urging a judge to release the music mogul.

These stories and more coming your way in just moments. Don't go anywhere.

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SANCHEZ: We're learning new information about a United Airlines flight traveling from Washington Dulles International Airport that had to make an emergency landing shortly after takeoff last month.

The plane carrying some 230 people on board was bound from Munich, Germany, when it was forced to return to Dulles after the pilot declared a mayday call over suspected engine failure.

CNN innovation correspondent Pete Muntean joins us now.

So, Pete, what are you learning about this mayday?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a pretty admirable job by this crew on this United Airlines flight.

And you will hear the calm here from the pilots declaring this emergency to air traffic control in a second. And, remember, this is something that pilots train for. Two engines on a Boeing 787 like this. Losing one engine is a problem, but hardly a recipe for disaster. Still able to fly on one engine with a lot of power in reserve.

And I want you to listen now to the steady hand of this United crew here in declaring this emergency to air traffic control and starting the process of getting this flight back on the ground. Listen.

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(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

PILOT: Failure. Engine failure, left engine. United 108 declaring an emergency. Mayday, mayday, mayday.

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: United 108 Heavy, roger that, sir. Are you able to make your way back into the field at this time? You can turn right heading 100, if able.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: Now, the problem arises here because this happened not long after takeoff from Washington, Dallas, meaning this flight was full of fuel. Fuel means weight, and large commercial jets often have a landing weight limit that is lower than the takeoff weight limit, the idea, prevent damage to the airplane on landing and the landing gear. So the solution is this. Dumping fuel through nozzles and the wings,

not much of an environmental concern. You can see the flight doing a couple orbits here around the Dulles Airport as they dump fuel at about 6,000 feet. Anything above about 5,000 feet, the fuel completely evaporates before it hits the ground.

So this flight was able to make it back on the ground. Passengers even deplaned at the gate. Pretty much everything was normal. They just had to cancel the flight, so mostly an inconvenience on a relatively run- of-the-mail emergency. Good job by the crew.

SANCHEZ: Yes, lucky for them.

Pete Muntean, thank you so much for the report.

MUNTEAN: Any time.

SANCHEZ: Brianna.

KEILAR: We're also staying on this major developing story out of Texas. Governor Greg Abbott says Democrats who left the state to avoid a vote on a new redistricting map that favors Republicans will be out of a job unless they return hours from now.

And that includes our next guest, Democrat John Bucy, who serves District 136 in the Texas House and is currently in Chicago.

Sir, thank you so much for being with us.

And just explain to us why you're doing this, because, when Democrats last did it in 2021, it didn't work. Quorum breaks in recent decades have failed. Why is this worth doing, even if it may very well fail?

STATE REP. JOHN BUCY (D-TX): Look, the people of Texas are fed up. Donald Trump knows that his extreme policies have put congressional majority at risk. He's hurting the people of America by cutting Medicaid, cutting health care, holding up funding for public education.

And what he's trying to do now, because he can't win in the midterms, he's trying to rig the elections. And he's colluding with Governor Abbott to steal five seats in the midterm elections from Texans. Texans are fed up. They're looking for leadership. And Greg Abbott has turned his back on them. So Texas Democrats are stepping up to fight for the people of our state.

KEILAR: And are you prepared to stay out of Texas if this special session expires and the governor calls another one?

BUCY: You know, we're raising awareness across the country. This isn't a Texas fight. This is an American fight. It's starting in Texas. But if this happens, all Americans will suffer.

And so we must stop it. And we're asking all Americans to pay attention to what's happening, to rise up and help us resist Donald Trump right now. It's important that we do this. It is up to Greg Abbott and Greg Abbott alone to call a special session. He needs to come to his senses, remember the flood victims, and get us back to work together.

Join us at the table to help the people of Central Texas and stop colluding with Donald Trump to do his bidding.

KEILAR: Of course, your Republican colleagues say you all need to be back in the state in order to take care of that issue, the flooding. But you're aware of that. And I know Democrats have been firing back in that regard.

But you hear the governor. He's saying you have just about three hours to get back or be removed from your seat. He said he would invoke Texas Attorney General Opinion No. KP-0382 to do that. Are you prepared to lose your seat over this?

BUCY: Look, we're fighting for the people of Texas. We're doing what's right. We're not afraid of the governor. We're not afraid of Ken Paxton.

We're here running into the fight to stand up for our democracy. That's what we're doing. And we will continue to fight as long as it takes. We are here to kill this special session. And that's what we're going to do. And then we will see what the governor does next and we will respond to it.

KEILAR: The attorney general, Paxton, has called for the arrest of Democrats, Texas Democrats who fled like yourself. He tweeted -- quote -- "We should use every tool at our disposal to hunt down those who think they're above the law."

What is your reaction to that? Because there's been talk of even federal law enforcement getting involved.

BUCY: I think Ken Paxton has enough of his own problems that he should be focused on those.

What we are doing is standing up for the people of Texas. We're working for our constituents. They're playing political games to steal a midterm election, while we're working for the people that we represent.

KEILAR: How do you plan to pay for the $500 a day that you will be fined up to as you're gone?

BUCY: Look, that's not my priority right now. I have got funds if necessary. I'm fighting for my 200,000 people that I represent in House District 136.

They're looking for us to stand up for American democracy. That's what we're doing. We will deal with that later. But, right now, our focus is on protecting this country and protecting our state.

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KEILAR: You would use personal funds? Is that what I'm hearing? BUCY: If necessary, we will do whatever it takes. We will deal with

that at a later time.

KEILAR: What does that mean you will deal with that at a later time?

BUCY: Well, I mean, we will see if they even move forward with the funds. They're going to have to vote to do that. They're going to have to do that to duly elected people. We will see what happens. But, if necessary, I'm happy to use personal funds. This is a fight worth having. And we're here to fight for the people of our district.

KEILAR: I do want to ask you, Representative, as you're getting a lot of attention and you have Democrats going to different states where we're seeing efforts to perhaps respond, right, to what Republicans are doing in Texas and maybe even other states, you're in Illinois, where state level Democrats drew a new map in 2022 that was aimed at giving Democrats one more House seat while costing Republicans two.

They actually drew out their black majority district to make that happen.Is that the place to be as you're criticizing Republicans for gerrymandering in Texas?

BUCY: Look, we're using a tool in the toolbox, and that's breaking quorum, to fight for the people of Texas. I'm focused on the five seats that Greg Abbott and Donald Trump are trying to steal.

By leaving the state, we're preventing them from doing that. And we're representing the 31 million Texans that want to be able to pick their elected leaders, not the other way around. And that's why I'm here. I'm just simply focused on stopping Donald Trump's big steal as he colludes with Greg Abbott.

KEILAR: Texas State Representative John Bucy, thank you for being with us, and we will stay in touch to see where this is going.

BUCY: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

KEILAR: And next: a manhunt for a suspected mass shooter in Montana intensifying this hour, as officials warn the suspect could return to the scene of the killings. We will have a live report right after this.

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