Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Number of Ice Flights Skyrocketing, but Planes Harder to Track; DHS Displays White Identity Motifs in Ice Recruitment Ads; Godfather of A.I. Warns Tech Bros Are Not Doing Enough to Save Humanity, Says We Need to Build Maternal Instincts Into A.I. Models; Wave of Glacier Floodwater Heading for Alaska's Capital City. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired August 13, 2025 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:30:47]

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": As the speed and scale of ICE deportation flights skyrocket, the airplanes carrying the detainees are now harder than ever to track. It's a problem not just for family members trying to find loved ones, but also for advocacy groups and attorneys trying to represent them. Plus, it's a growing public accountability issue. CNN's Rene Marsh is here with much more. Rene, you've been looking into this entire subject. What more have you been learning?

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there have been more than a thousand deportation flights since President Trump took office. That's a 15 percent spike, and this is as the administration is moving to remove some 1,000 immigrants from the country in a year. Now, since the Trump Administration came into office, experts who are tracking these ICE flights on a daily basis say that they have noticed a trend.

It was just a few months ago, major companies that are flying these ICE flights for the federal government, they started requesting that their tail numbers be hidden. A tail number essentially is like the equivalent of a license plate on a vehicle. And they're asking that their tail numbers be hidden from these public flight tracking websites. And usually these flight tracking websites, they can broadcast a plane's position, its route. A lot of times consumers will use it to identify flight delays, conditions at an airport.

And in this case, many advocates and families could potentially use it as a tool to know where their loved ones, who are in ICE custody, are being taken. Especially with the Trump Administration's increased use of these third-country deportations, where essentially they're sending people to countries that are not their countries of origin. This has really raised concerns for groups like the ACLU.

I spoke with the senior council with the ACLU about this very issue, the lack of transparency around these ICE flights. And she says this, she says that this is vital information to be able to understand how ICE is conducting its enforcement and deportation activities. Sometimes this is the only information that the public has with respect to where ICE is placing people because of the general lack of transparency around detention and deportation under this particular administration.

I will say that we reached out to the Department of Homeland Security to get a sense as to why these companies flying on their behalf are doing this. But we did not get a response.

FREEMAN: Yeah, it's amazing to think about, again, how many people use tail numbers for all sorts of different purposes, like again, attorneys trying to represent their clients. What more though, can you tell us about who is operating these flights?

MARSH: Right. So, we really also dug into who are the -- which companies are behind these ICE flights, who are operating the majority of these ICE flights. And what we found is, it's mostly private aviation companies. There's at least one commercial aviation company, and then there's a small number of military flights. And some of these companies involved have ties to President Trump In February, CSI Aviation, for example, they won a really big contract, $128 million. They are considered, for the most part, the primary contractor with the federal government for these ICE flight.

The value of that contract now is more than $300 million. And the CEO of the company has a record of donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to the Republican Party, including President Trump. He also hosted a rally for then candidate Trump at one of his hangers. So certainly, ties between these companies who are operating these flights and the president, but this has become a billion dollar industry as we talk about these ICE flights, especially under this administration with the ramp up that we're seeing.

FREEMAN: Yeah, a lot of money in there, especially as the number of flights have skyrocketed, as you said. Thank you, Rene. Really appreciate it. Boris?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": As some of ICE's work has become harder to track, the Department of Homeland Security's online recruitment efforts are drawing serious criticism. See for yourself. This image on the DHS homepage depicts Uncle Sam at a crossroads. And one direction point the words homeland and opportunity. And toward the other, invasion and cultural decline. It presents these choices as an existential national struggle. Which way, American man?

[13:35:00]

In this post, Uncle Sam implores citizens to "report all foreign invaders." And this recruitment message is captioned "Remember your homeland's heritage." This other post makes it clear that this goes beyond immigrant criminals. DHS caption reads, "Serve your country, defend your culture. No undergraduate degree required. Join ICE." Joining me now to discuss is John Sandweg. He's a former Acting ICE Director under President Obama. John, thanks so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us. I wonder what you make of that language, what it says about the way that DHS views its mission and also, who they're trying to recruit with it?

JOHN SANDWEG, FORMER ACTING ICE DIRECTOR UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: Yeah, Boris, I think this is critically important. You have to remember, this is a massive restructuring advice. We're getting 10,000 new agents, and these agents are not just here for the next three-and-a- half years of the Trump Administration, but for the next 20, 25 years. This is going to define what ICE is like for future administrations as well. What's concerning here is it reinforces this idea that all immigrants are treated equal. This refusal to distinguish between the MS-13 member who's committing violent crimes and the person who might have crossed that border unlawfully might be out of immigration status, but is married to a U.S. citizen, has three U.S. citizen children and has never committed a crime.

It reinforces this idea that all migration is equal threat to the United States and refuses to recognize those distinctions, and refuses to kind of reinforces this idea that we shouldn't be prioritizing who ICE is focusing on, but rather just focused on immigration enforcement writ large.

SANCHEZ: And it also presents it as a cultural threat, the arrow pointing in the other direction suggesting that somehow immigrants are degrading the country. And it speaks to something that we heard from President Trump even on the campaign trail, talking about immigrants tainting the blood of the United States. I wonder what concerns you might have about what this means for how immigrants respond to ICE and other law enforcement.

SANDWEG: Ultimately, Boris, I think this is devastating for the agency. I think it undermines its ability to be an effective public safety organization. Just putting focus first on this idea of mass deportation, remember, even with this supercharged ICE that the administration's building, at best, you can deport 700,000 to 800,000 in a year. That's probably ambitious as well. But when you look at the larger undocumented population, you realize that still only a fraction, less than 10 percent of the undocumented population.

The point is, you can't enforce your way out of it. Recognizing that with these limited resources, we need to focus these resources in on those individuals, not judging people based on who they are, but what they are doing in this country. Unfortunately, this reinforces this idea that the proper test is who people are, what is their national identity. But larger point, Boris, is exactly what you're saying. It kind of reinforces ICE as this tip of the spear in this culture war. But ICE wasn't built for Red America. It wasn't built for Blue America. It was built really to protect the United States of America.

But when you kind of put it as this tip of the spear of the administration, and this symbol of this culture wars, it just makes it so hard for the individual agents who want to partner with -- just for one example, they want to partner with state and local law enforcement. They want to partner with the LAPD on operations targeting gang members. It makes it politically impossible for that LAPD or Chicago PD to do those kind of operations, ultimately undermining really all.

SANCHEZ: Yeah, that is a significant point. I do want to get your thoughts on how this process is going to work, as DHS ramps up recruitment. They say that they received more than a hundred thousand applications in the last two weeks. I heard you previously make the point that it's going to take a while for these potential agents to actually get online because they have to be trained, right?

SANDWEG: Yeah. Boris, this is going to be very interesting. Obviously, the administration requested all these additional resources in this Big Beautiful Bill because they want to get them out on the streets during the Trump Administration. But during the normal course of things, the hired 10,000 agents really would take three to four years. I mean, you wouldn't see the large numbers of agents actually deployed in the streets until the very end of the administration. So, I think one thing we all ought to be watching for here is, is the administration going to cut corners? Is it going to cut corners in terms of vetting people? Are we going to limit background checks, digging into who these people are?

Ideally, we're not getting these people who are motivated by this desire, by some sort of antipathy towards immigrants, but people who are motivated, who can see the nuance of the world and are interested in joining the force in order to make the country safer. But then, you look at the training, right? Typically, it's a 13-week program at the FLETC, at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Georgia. It's not equipped to handle 10,000 people at once.

You got to get field officers. So a lot of this stuff is boring. But the point is that the concern here will be, are we going to cut corners and trying to get people out on the streets as quickly as possible in order to feed the mass deportation effort? And again, Boris, like I said, it's not just a matter of who's out there today enforcing these laws, but these are people that are going to be hired today.

[13:40:00]

They're going to be really likely with the agency for 20, 25 years to come. So, this is going to carry significant consequences for really multiple administrations.

SANCHEZ: All right. John Sandweg, always appreciate your point of view. Thanks for joining us.

SANDWEG: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Now, a warning you have to hear from someone who helped create artificial intelligence. He fears it could wipe out humanity as we know it. Next, the one thing the godfather of A.I. says could prevent catastrophe.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FREEMAN: The so-called godfather of A.I., Geoffrey Hinton, the man who helped build artificial intelligence, is warning the technology could wipe out humanity. He's worried the "tech bros" in charge of A.I. are not really doing much to stop it. And the technology will take control of humans. Take a listen.

[13:45:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEOFFREY HINTON, GODFATHER OF A.I.: It's going to be like, imagine you were in charge of a playgroup of three-year-olds, and you worked for them. It wouldn't be very hard to get control of them. You just promised them free candy for a week.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREEMAN: OK, but there is good news. Hinton believes there is one way, only one though, that could help humans survive this. CNN's Matt Egan joins us now from A.I. Forward industry conference that's taking place in Las Vegas. Matt, don't hold out on us. Tell us how we can survive this.

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well, Danny, I know that this sounds like something out of the "Terminator" or a sci-fi movie, but there are real concerns about losing control of A.I. in the future. And Geoffrey Hinton is among the most qualified people on the planet to talk about these risks. He says that the secret to ensuring A.I. doesn't eventually control humans is to instill a maternal instinct into A.I. systems. He says, instead of A.I. assistance, we need to develop "Mother A.I." Take a listen to what Geoffrey Hinton said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HINTON: I think people have been looking at this all wrong. So people have been saying, because they're tech bros. They've been saying, we have to stay in control of these A.I.s. We've somehow got to be stronger than them. We've got to be dominant and they got to be submissive. That's not going to work. They're going to be much smarter than us. They're going to have all sorts of ways of getting around that.

So, we need to reframe this problem. It's not that we have to be stronger than them and stay in control of them. We have to make it so that when they're more powerful than us and smarter than us, they still care about us. So the right model is the only model we have of a more intelligent thing being controlled by a less intelligent thing, which is a mother being controlled by her baby.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

EGAN: Now, I should note that not everyone is on board with this idea of Mother A.I. I just got done interviewing Fei-Fei Li. She is a computer scientist who's actually known as the Godmother of A.I. And she said that what we really need is human-centered A.I. that preserves human dignity and human decision making. Of course, the problem is right now, there is this A.I. gold rush going on in Silicon Valley and on Wall Street. And simultaneously, there's an A.I. arms race between the United States and China.

All the incentives are pointing to rewarding companies that can build the fastest and smartest A.I. systems. And those incentives are not necessarily around safety. Now, I also just stress that this is not all about gloom and doom at this conference. There's a lot of hope and optimism that A.I. is going to be a game changer in a positive way for society. Fei-Fei Li said it's going to transform education. Geoffrey Hinton said he thinks it's going to lead to medical breakthroughs.

But Danny, to get to those positive game changers, a lot of experts believe that we need guardrails to make sure that A.I. is developed in a safe way.

FREEMAN: Yeah, and it seems at least good that somebody is having the conversation, especially, leaders like this in the field. Matt, thank you so much and thank you for bringing us that answer. Appreciate it.

EGAN: Thanks.

FREEMAN: Now, coming up in a moment, a melting glacier is sending water surging towards Alaska's capital. People in Juneau are being urged to evacuate. We have the latest right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:53:00]

SANCHEZ: People in Alaska's capital are being urged to evacuate amid a glacier outburst. The sudden outburst is caused by a glacier melt. And as time lapse video shows, it caused waters to rise in recent weeks and they're now surging toward Juneau. Video from this morning shows one of the flood barriers built after last year's massive flooding and you can see water is just coming out of a hole and it's visible around the wall's base. Let's go live to CNN Meteorologist, Allison Chinchar who's tracking this for us? Allison, tell us about this glacier outburst.

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yeah, so we want to emphasize that the water level has finally crested. We don't anticipate that it's going to go up any higher than it has at this point. Behind me, you can see this drone video of the glacier that we've been talking about here. So you can see kind of how all of that piles up right through there. In the same video you just showed, but the key thing here is to notice how this section right through here starts to drop down. You'll start to see it lower and get lower and lower. And that's what we're talking about.

When it does that, all of the water out from underneath it just kind of pushes out and heads towards the town. And that's where the concern has been because depending on how quickly that water comes in, how much water comes in, can lead to flooding, not just in areas where you're used to it. Like you see rivers, creeks, and streams that would swell, but you also start to see it then come in on the roadways and something like that. Here's a look at where we are. Again, major flood stage is at 14 feet. So keep that in mind.

The forecast level was up to around just above 16.5 feet. Record is 16. So we are just right around, just barely above 14.5 feet. So we are still above major flood stage, but we have started to see those numbers coming back down. Now for some perspective, here's what we're talking about, OK? The city of Juneau right through here. This is the downtown region, but all of the city kind of expands and stretches around this mountain right through here. The airport being on the south side of the town

Now, the glacier in question that we've been talking about is right up here, the Mendenhall Glacier. But this is the flood pathway. So essentially, when all of that water comes out, it comes down through this blue area here and heads straight down for the town.

[13:55:00]

Again, the concern here is that how much water actually comes out, how quickly does it come out, and where does it go? There are some smaller tributaries that we hope that most of that water flows out through. But if it's simply too much water for those tributaries to hold, that's when you start to see it flowing out into the surrounding communities, onto the roadways. So that's why this whole green highlighted area right here, this is the area that is under the flood warning where there is that potential to have some flooding over the next several hours until that water comes back down below flood stage.

SANCHEZ: Allison Chinchar, thank you so much for breaking that down for us. Still to come this afternoon here, President Trump's new warning for Russian President Vladimir Putin ahead of their summit in Alaska. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)