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Trump, Zelenskyy Meeting at White House; Trump Host European Leaders and Zelenskyy at White House. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired August 18, 2025 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We are awaiting President Trump with several European leaders and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy at the White House. They're set to take a group photo. This is a live image of where they are set to emerge in just moments.

This is obviously a huge day for Ukraine at the White House that could determine the future of the country, what its boundaries look like, and what may happen next in the war between Russia and Ukraine.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And we're joined again by Ambassador John Bolton and CNN Global Affairs Analyst Kim Dozier and CNN Military Analyst, retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton. I wonder, Colonel, what you expect is going to be discussed. And a big part of that is going to, of course, be land.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes. And, well, Brianna, one of the key things, I think, when you go to land, if I can go to the iPad, if it works here, well, let's just say this, when it comes to land, you look at the map that you see right here, and this is 2014 Ukraine. And when you have 2014 Ukraine, you see the very small areas that the Russians were occupied -- were able to occupy, Crimea and that part of the Donbas region right there.

Those areas are, you know, kind of small compared to, if we go then to the map that shows what we have nowadays, when you look at the post- 2022 version of this, that would become, you know, quite important to look at, because you see right in this area right here around the Kramatorsk region, what that does is it shows that the area where the Ukrainians and the Russians are fighting right now. So in this particular area, Brianna, you will see this is basically the most contentious area that they're fighting in. The area right around here, around Kramatorsk, and then also around the town of Pokrovsk right in here, that is an area where you will see it going back and forth.

The Ukrainians have made some progress in the last few hours going against Russian positions there, but the Russians are putting a lot of pressure on there, and if you look at the way in which each of these areas is, you know, is basically, you know, surrounded almost on three sides by the Russians, you can tell that they have some advantages here. But this is the area where a lot of the main discussions are.

When you go to other areas around Ukraine, such as the northern area, there are small areas where the Russians have a presence.

[14:35:00]

Previously, the Ukrainians had a presence in the Kursk region right there, right next to it. You also have around just north of Kharkiv, and you have a more substantial area right in here where the Russians have occupied areas near Kupyansk, the town of Kupyansk. Each of these areas could be swapped out by the Russians if the Russians chose to do that and if they were willing to do that.

But the most likely scenario is that they may want to keep the areas around Kupyansk, this area right here. They may give up areas in this area right here, just south of Belgorod in Russia. But the key thing is these are really minor territories compared to what you see in the Donbas region, where the Ukrainians still control about 30 percent of the Donetsk region.

This is the area where most of the contention is going to be. There are other areas in the south, for example, where there would be possibilities right in here for the Russians to, in essence, stop along the line of troops right here. That would probably be where you would see things stay as they are.

But all the other areas are areas of contention, especially in the Donbas region.

SANCHEZ: And the Donbas, we should point out, is where hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians live.

LEIGHTON: Yes.

SANCHEZ: So if concessions are made there, Kim, it would be significant.

I do want to point out that up until today at the White House, I had not heard President Zelenskyy publicly punt on the idea of Ukraine having to give up land.

He was asked specifically if maps would have to be redrawn in order to achieve peace and he said we're going to work. We are ready for a trilateral meeting. This is very good.

But he didn't answer the question about redrawing boundaries.

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: He's learned to bunt the tough questions until he's behind closed doors with various European leaders to be the bad guys, you know, the good cop, bad cop for him. Because what Russia is asking for is just in Donetsk alone, of the four different regions that it's trying to claim in addition to Crimea, 3,500 square miles it hasn't captured. That's like giving away Connecticut or Delaware without a fight. And that's not including the other areas.

Earlier this year, I got to go to the front line near Izyum and talk to some of the troops there. In Izyum itself, you could see -- Izyum had been taken by the Russians earlier -- you could see evidence of there was an apartment block that they had shattered and they trapped the people inside and wouldn't let them out. That apartment wreckage is now a tomb with flowers, et cetera, outside. That is what the Ukrainian troops are seeing as a reminder.

If we let the Russians take this territory, this is what they will do to our countrymen. So giving that up like that, you know that Zelenskyy wants to passionately defend against that. But he smartly kept his peace.

And it's going to be up to the Europeans to say, here's why he can't give that up. And here's how we'll help him defend against this invasion.

KEILAR: It's also sort of like saying, oh, well, El Paso, it's 80 percent Hispanic, most of which is of Mexican heritage. So it's OK to give that up to Mexico, right? This is sort of the the logic that Putin is using for some of these areas, Ambassador.

I wonder, as you are looking at this and we look to history for this idea of appeasement and giving up land. And it's not as simple as giving up land to make a problem go away. It sometimes makes the problem bigger.

We saw that with the Munich agreement. And while I didn't see that, that obviously was a long time ago. But that is sort of the cautionary tale, right, the Neville Chamberlain cautionary table tale.

How do you avoid that in this situation?

AMB. JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, it's pretty brassy of the Russians to begin with, to say we want territory that we haven't conquered. I mean, it's bad enough to say we we committed an unprovoked aggression and we want the fruits of that. But to say we want land beyond that really is is a demand that puts the Ukrainians on the back foot.

And to the extent that Putin has persuaded Trump to make that the position Zelenskyy has to respond to, that's another piece of evidence of a big victory for Putin in Alaska.

In the case of this territory in Donetsk, it actually has -- Cedric would know better than I -- but it's very heavily fortified and it's it's been a wedge into the Russian position they haven't been able to break.

[14:40:00]

And that does have an ironic, unfortunate comparison to the Sudetenland, because not only was it ethnic German, which was Hitler's argument, that's where all the Czechoslovak fortifications were. So when Sudetenland got taken away, it left the Czechs even more vulnerable.

One quick point on this ethnicity or culture, you know, the Ukrainians had a referendum in 1991 about independence and independence won in every oblast, in every oblast, including Crimea. So, you know, if if you say, well, but they're Russians, you know, it's sort of like they're close to us. They must be Russians.

In 1776, people could have said, what do you mean you want independence? You're English. You sound like Englishmen. You look like Englishmen.

The Ukrainians have made a decision. They want freedom and independence. That's what they're fighting for. We used to take it seriously, too.

SANCHEZ: It's notable, Ambassador, that for Ukraine to give up land, Ukrainian law stipulates that there would have to be a national referendum. And as of the last polling that we saw, something like 76 or 78 percent of Ukrainians are against giving up any land to Russia.

BOLTON: This is a very important point, because it's also true polls show 80 percent of Ukrainians want peace. Well, of course they want peace. Look at what they're going through. But the question is always on what terms.

KEILAR: And what does it do strategically, Cedric? If you were, for instance, to move the lines where Russia wants them to be, to your point on the Sudetenland. Right.

And then that is no longer contested in a peace agreement. If Putin, if Russia were ultimately to decide they are going to ignore a peace agreement, they're going to continue an invasion of Ukraine, would they actually be in a better position to do that?

LEIGHTON: Yes, and so if the Russians, you know, when you look at the map for the Donbas region, the area that, you know, when you see this particular area right here, basically around Crimea and, you know, all of -- and Kramatorsk, what you're looking at there is a line from which there are these fortified cities, those four cities that Ambassador Bolton referred to. And if the Russians are able to take that over without having won it in battle, that would then open up the gateway.

Just almost a total analogy to the Sudetenland situation, because what that then does is it moves things forward into the central part of Ukraine, where you look at Dnipro and that area. All of a sudden the road to Dnipro is opened up. That's a major river town on the Dnipro River.

That then has a whole different strategic dynamic potentially should the Russians, after let's say a hypothetical ceasefire, should they break it or violate, you know, some form of truce. If they moved into that particular area, then you would see a situation where all of a sudden the road not only to Dnipro, but potentially to other major towns in Ukraine would be open.

And if that were the case, then all bets are off and it would give the Russians a strategic advantage that they first of all haven't earned on the battlefield, but would also really endanger the possibility of sovereignty, keeping, maintaining sovereignty for the Ukrainian nation. SANCHEZ: So if taking over Crimea in 2014 was phase one, and then the attempt at a full-scale invasion was phase two back in 2022, and let's say optimistically that there's some kind of peace agreement reached now, and there perhaps is not enough in place to deter Vladimir Putin from phase three and trying to take it all, how long are we away from that kind of regrouping from the Russian military?

LEIGHTON: So if you look at what they did in the past, so you had basically an eight-year period from 2014 to 2022, a little less than eight years, where they did all of the work first in Crimea and then, you know, in the Donbas region, and then also then fast forward to 2022. So you're looking, you know, for them to regroup their forces and to recover from this. They would need, indeed in my estimation, at least eight to 10 years to reconstitute the forces, to be capable enough to do something like you suggest where they could go all the way to, let's say, Lviv in the western part of Ukraine.

Now, having said that, they do have manpower resources that they could potentially use, and that would then, you know, make it, and if they, of course, ally themselves with the North Koreans even further, then that would be a totally different situation, but they still need weapons.

DOZIER: If I could jump in. European intelligence agencies have said the way Putin has since 2022 transformed the Russian economy into a war economy and the kind of links he's made to North Korea, to Iran's drone program, etc., they see him able to invade a European nation much faster within not eight to 10 years, but a matter of three to five years, just because of the way Russia now is as a warlike nation.

[14:45:00]

So if you are in Estonia, Latvia, etc., or any part of Ukraine that is facing this newly gained Russian territory, you're just watching for them to invade again in a matter of months to years.

KEILAR: All right. We're going to get in a quick break, but we are awaiting all of -- all right, we have a two-minute warning, so we are going to talk a little bit until we see these European leaders and President Trump and President Zelenskyy come out at the White House for what is such a critical day as they are meeting.

And we heard the President, Ambassador Bolton, say that they -- that he is planning to call Vladimir Putin and he might be able to get a trilateral meeting.

Do you think that he will be able to do that?

BOLTON: No, I don't think there's a trilateral meeting coming in the next several days. I think it's interesting that the meeting with Zelenskyy and Trump appears to have been pretty much on schedule, maybe even a little shorter than expected, which is either very good news or very bad news that now we're going to see the European leaders come in.

I do think there are fallback positions, though, on a trilateral meeting. The annual UN General Assembly opening in the third week of September in New York could provide an opportunity. Certainly, Zelenskyy will come to that. Putin hasn't come much in recent years, but he might be persuaded and it's right there for Trump in New York so he can stay in Trump Tower.

So I think it's -- even if a trilateral doesn't happen in the next few weeks, there's a fallback position for Trump.

SANCHEZ: And, Ambassador, what are you hoping to hear from the European leaders?

BOLTON: Well, I urge them to be careful here. I think they should flatter Trump, tell him how wonderful he is, congratulate him on the Alaska Summit, whether they believe any of it or not, I don't really care.

Don't lecture him. Don't harangue him. Don't gang up on him. Remember what he's after and figure out how to build on some of the things he's said very vaguely, see if they can put some meat on the bones.

KEILAR: Secretary Rubio said that any deal is going to cause disappointment on both sides. I think, of course, that's just the realistic expectation, and we should note -- here we see President Trump and President Zelenskyy and European leaders behind them as they are coming through the cross hall for this moment where they are going to be taking a photo together. This really is a moment that will go down in history.

The question is going to be for what?

BOLTON: Right.

KEILAR: Right. What is that going to be? Only time is going to tell, of course, what this moment means.

SANCHEZ: Let's go ahead and listen in.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's not a good day. That was not a great day.

Is everything OK? We all set. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:

SANCHEZ: Not much in the way of a question and answer session there from President Trump and European leaders. He was flanked by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy as well as Emmanuel Macron, the leader of Italy is there as well as Germany. Clearly a significant moment, and to your point, Brianna, the question is what comes next?

Is there going to be a trilateral meeting? Ambassador Bolton expressed some skepticism about that. We do know that President Trump is going to call Vladimir Putin after this.

What do you anticipate he's going to say? BOLTON: Well, obviously to report on what happened and get Putin's reaction to it, which I think allows Putin really almost instant second guessing of whichever way it comes out. I think it's interesting that it was a very stern looking group of people, I think, getting their picture taken. I'm curious whether Zelenskyy had time between when his meeting with Trump ended and that picture took place to brief the Europeans on what happened, or are they going to learn about the bilateral first from Donald Trump, the host?

That could really set the tone for this upcoming larger meeting where really I think a lot is at stake for the Europeans in particular.

KEILAR: Kim, what is that symbol? What does it signify to have those leaders there standing together with Volodymyr Zelenskyy? What is the message? What is the message to Vladimir Putin?

DOZIER: The message is that they are standing firm defending Ukraine, including at least two of them promising to put troops on the ground to make sure that Russia can invade again without also attacking NATO members.

[14:50:00]

Not NATO, but troops of NATO members. One of the most important things that Ukraine needs right now in terms of this, as Steve Witkoff described it over the weekend in Article 5-like agreement, they need European troops on the ground and backing from Europe that if Russia invades, they will defend Ukraine.

The U.S. had troops on the ground inside Ukraine. They were U.S. special operations trainers. They had intelligence officers on the ground in Ukraine in 2022, but they pulled them all out. Basically, the U.S. has to bless whatever Europe is willing to do to save Ukraine and the rest of itself for its own security.

SANCHEZ: And in just moments, we are expecting to go inside the room and get a view of the East Room at the White House where this multilateral meeting is taking place. Colonel, you got some thoughts.

LEIGHTON: Yes, I think it's, you know, it's very interesting to see the dynamic. And as Kim was mentioning, the big thing that the Europeans are going to have to do is pony up the troops in order to make this work. And whether or not there is U.S. participation in this with boots -- actual boots on the ground, it really depends a lot on what the Europeans can put together. They're going to have to provide, at least have to be prepared to provide, the bulk of the manpower associated with something like this.

Now, having said that, one of the key things that they're all worried about is, you know, what are the next steps? You know, as we were talking about prior to the picture-taking session, there are going to be different estimates as to, you know, what is going to happen next.

Clearly, they have to take the worst-case scenario. And if, you know, it becomes like the intelligence that Kim cited, it becomes a three- year or less type dynamic, they have to not only prepare to deploy forces into Ukraine, but they also have to shore up their defenses on the -- especially on the eastern flank. So that means the Baltic states, Poland, especially Romania.

Those countries are going to have to really be prepared to defend their territory on their own, at least for the first few moments of any type of conflict, any type of shooting war potentially between them and the Russians. They just have to be prepared for that.

KEILAR: Cedric, there's not much of an appetite, we know, domestically here for American boots on the ground. And here we are looking in the East Room where they are holding this meeting. Let's listen in.

Mr. President, here's Mark.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hi, Mark. Yes. Well thank you very much. It's a great honor to have you here. A special place, White House is special no matter where you're from. It represents so much and it truly is beautiful.

And thank you for all of the wonderful things that took place today. We've had a very successful day thus far. Important discussions as we work to end the killing and stop the war in Ukraine.

We're all working for the same goal. Very simple goal. We want to stop the killing, get this settled.

I've just had the honor of being with President Zelenskyy in all of the discussions that we've had. We covered a lot of territory. And I spoke indirectly with President Putin today. We're going to call President Putin right after this meeting. I'm sure we're going to have a solid meeting, good meeting, maybe a great meeting. And we're going to try and work out a trilat after that and see if we can get it finished, put this to sleep. Because this is not since the Second World War has there been anything like this.

So I'm honored to welcome NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte, who's a great gentleman, great, great political leader in Europe generally. But now he's the NATO Secretary General, and you're doing a fantastic job. Thank you very much, Mark.

Prime Minister Starmer of the United Kingdom, our friend and my friend, and doing really well. And people like him a lot. We all like him.

Everyone knows President Macron of France, who's been with me from the beginning. One of the first people I met as a foreign dignitary, and I liked him from day one. And I like him even more now. That's pretty good. That's unusual. That's a pretty unusual thing.

Prime Minister Meloni of Italy, who's really a great leader and an inspiration over there. She's served now, even though she's a very young person, she's served there for a long period of time relative to others. They don't last very long. You've lasted a long time. You're going to be there a long time.

[14:55:00] Chancellor Merz of Germany, who is a very strong person and a very strong leader and very highly respected in Germany. And he's my friend, and it's an honor to have him as my friend. Thank you very much. You look great with your tan. Where'd you get that tan? I want to get a tan like that.

President Stubb of Finland, and he's somebody that -- where are we here? Where? Oh, you look better than I've ever seen you look. But you've done a great job, and we wanted to have you here because you're somebody that we all respect. And you've had a lot to do with the success, I think, and the potential success. And thank you very much for being here. We appreciate it.

And the President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, who is somebody that we just made a big deal with, with all of those countries. I don't know. I think you might be more powerful than all these guys at this table. I don't know. But we had a great negotiation, and you're respected all over the world. So I want to thank you very much for being here. It's a great honor to have you.

The Alaska Summit reinforced my belief that while difficult pieces were then reached, and I believe that in a very significant step, President Putin agreed that Russia would accept security guarantees for Ukraine. And this is one of the key points that we need to consider, and we're going to be considering that at the table also, like who will do what, essentially. I'm optimistic that, collectively, we can reach an agreement that would deter any future aggression against Ukraine.

And I actually think there won't be. I think that's even overrated, largely overrated, but we're going to find out. And I think that the European nations are going to take a lot of the burden. We're going to help them, and we're going to make it very secure.

We also need to discuss the possible exchanges of territory, taking into consideration the current line of contact. That means the war zone, the war lines that are pretty obvious. Very sad, actually, to look at them. And negotiating positions. President Putin also.

You have President of Ukraine, who is you just met a little while ago, and we're going to try and get a three-party meeting, maybe as soon as we can. And I have a feeling you and President Putin are going to work something out. Ultimately, this is a decision that can only be made by President Zelenskyy and by the people of Ukraine, working also together in agreement with President Putin.

And I just think that's very good things are going to come of it. So I hope we have a good meeting. And if we can have a good meeting, I'll set up a meeting with President Putin.

And if you'd like, I'll go to that meeting. And not that I want to do that, but I will do that because we want to save a lot of people from dying. A lot of people are dying, and we got to save them. We got to save it. Five thousand, six thousand, seven thousand people, sometimes a week. All of us would obviously prefer an immediate ceasefire while we work on a lasting peace. And maybe something like that could happen. As of this moment, it's not happening. But President Zelenskyy and President Putin can talk a little bit more about that.

You know, in the six or so wars that we stopped, we haven't had a ceasefire. And so I don't know that it's necessary. You can do it through the war, but it would be -- I like the ceasefire from another standpoint. You immediately stop the killing.

But I believe a peace agreement at the end of all of this is something that's very attainable, and it can be done in the near future. With all of the wars that I got involved in, we only have this one left.

Of course, as I walk out the door, there will probably be a new one starting, and I'll get that stopped, too. But I thought this was going to be one of the easier ones. It's actually one of the most difficult and very complex.

The next step would be for a trilateral meeting, and that will be worked out. And I just look forward to working and having a great result. We're going to spend a lot of time today talking about -- and we're really honored you guys came over.

I mean, these are the heads of major countries and respected all over Europe. And they speak for -- largely, I think I should say, but pretty much for the other countries of Europe. And we will come to a resolution today, I think, on almost everything, including probably the security.

And that's pretty much the story. I'd like to say, Mr. President, would you like to say something? You have the media.

If you want, you could come over and you could stand -- or you could use mine, or you could just turn around, whichever you feel comfortable with.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Thank you so much. I can't speak without microphone. Thank you so much.

I think that we had very good conversation with President Trump.

TRUMP: Very good.

ZELENSKYY: And it really was the best one. Or, sorry, maybe the best one will be in the future. But it was really good ...

END