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Trump Claims "The Smithsonian is Out of Control"; Kremlin Slams Attempts to Discuss Ukraine's Security Without Moscow; Texas House Could Vote Today on Redistricting Measures; HHS Staffers Call on RFK Jr. to Stop Spreading Health Misinformation. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired August 20, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, too much focus on how bad slavery was. President Trump accusing the Smithsonian Museums of being too focused on the negative parts of U.S. history. It comes just days after the White House announced an unprecedented review of the museums to make sure they align with the president's views.

With us now, Leah Wright Rigueur, CNN Political Historian and Associate Professor of history at Johns Hopkins University.

Professor, always great to see you. I just want to read the full statement that the president made on Twitter. The Smithsonian is out of control where everything discussed is how horrible our country is, how bad slavery was, and how unaccomplished the downtrodden have been. Nothing about success, nothing about brightness, nothing about the future. So, too much focus on how bad slavery was. When you first heard that, what went through your head?

LEAH WRIGHT RIGUEUR, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST & HISTORIAN: Well, the first thing that went through my head was, I wonder what changed between now and 2017, when Trump visited the Smithsonian and visited the National Museum of African American History and Culture and raved about it. Said that it was incredible, that it was beautifully done, that it was important to remember things like slavery, because we don't want things like bigotry and hatred and racism happening again.

So, what's clearly happened over the course of those several years, since his last term in office, is that the president's agenda has changed dramatically. And part of the president's agenda has really been about erasing history and replacing it with his version of history. I think he said it very clearly in that statement and in the statement issued a few weeks ago, a few months ago, and a statement issued at the beginning of his -- at this term in office, where he said that he wanted America's history to reflect his version of history. He didn't want to talk about the complicated nature or the horrific nature.

And so the solution to that on the president's part is simply to erase the parts that he doesn't like and that don't align with his agenda.

The other thing that I'll say here, too, John, is that, you know, I think the president is forgetting that visit that he took in 2017, because one of the stories that emerges when you go through really any Smithsonian exhibit and is really a credit to the hard work of the historians, the curators, the scholars who poured their all into that, is that you don't just see a story of horror, right? You do have to tell the honest story of this American history -- American history but you also see a story of resilience, of transformation, and of democracy, right?

The promise of democracy and democracy realized. And I think that's the part that the president really just misses and that the president is choosing to ignore in favor of this really reductive and harmful version of history that he wants to implement.

[08:35:08]

BERMAN: You know, in a vacuum, what's the role of a museum, particularly a historical museum?

RIGUEUR: A historical museum's role is really just to document the past, but it's to document the past through materials, through collections, through original papers and documents. It's to do it honestly. You know, one of the things that historians tell one another and one of the things that you learn in history school and professional school 101, first day of class, is that you don't tell the story.

You allow the documents to tell the story, and then you draw conclusions from that. History is not just an assembled set of facts. It is interpretation. It allows us, through using these primary source documents, to tell the stories of people, their actual voices. And all too often, those stories are deeply uncomfortable.

But I think what it's really important to do and really important to see is that even as we tell that discomforted story, it's also true that the triumph that we see in those stories, the story of the end of slavery, you can't tell those stories without telling the really bad parts as well, right? So, the triumphant is directly linked to the horrific. And that's what historians are charged with doing.

BERMAN: What does history tell us about when politicians try to control the past or control historical narratives?

RIGUEUR: Well, one of the things that we know is that history oftentimes is considered power. And who writes history -- whoever writes history, can control the narrative. And oftentimes what we see, particularly in authoritarian regimes or dictatorial regimes or totalitarian regimes, is that presidents or positions or leaders in positions of power who want to exert power will do their best to control the historical narrative, to control those levers, because it allows them to control the story of that country, of that regime, of that area.

And by virtue of that, it allows them to maintain power and allows them to define truth in their own terms. And so one of the things that we have seen about history in this country is a very real push by institutions, including the Smithsonian, to remain independent of the branches of government, but also the branches of power, because it is so important to tell a story that is reflective of we, the people, the Constitution, but the American people and the voices, as opposed to people who would choose to really tell a story that is befitting of a certain political agenda.

BERMAN: Professor Leah Wright Rigueur, always great to speak with you. Makes me want to go back to school. I appreciate it.

All right. The Texas state capitol evacuated after an active shooter threatened the middle of the redistricting fight.

And two words for you this morning. Radioactive shrimp. The new warning from the FDA.

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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Moments ago, Russia taking a new dig at the efforts by European leaders to bring an end to Russia's war on Ukraine and also a dig at their meeting with President Trump at the White House. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov saying just this morning, quote, "We did not hear any constructive ideas from the Europeans there." He also said, and I will play it for you, this, about any discussion of security guarantees for Ukraine without Moscow being involved.

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SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: (through translator): Now, it is proposed to resolve security issues, collective security, without the Russian Federation. This will not work. I'm confident that in the West and above all in the U.S., they understand perfectly well that seriously discussing security issues without the Russian Federation is a utopia and a path to nowhere.

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BOLDUAN: Joining me right now is John Bolton, former National Security Advisor to President Trump and a former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations. It's rare that I can get you to smile and laugh, so I guess I'll call this a win for me this morning, Ambassador. You -- as you said to me in the break, you have known Lavrov for decades. What is he doing there?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, I think it's a reflection of just how confident the Russians feel. They have escaped the sanctions that have been threatened by President Trump. They've heard Secretary of State Rubio say on Sunday, we're not going to sanction them because it will cause diplomatic efforts to fail.

And they are trying to keep the table set so that things work out in their direction. It goes to their basic point that the root causes, as they like to call them, of the conflict in Ukraine or the security structures in Europe as a whole. So, they'd love to have a discussion on that, not just in Ukraine, but across the entire continent. That's really what he's saying.

BOLDUAN: What do you think of what you just mentioned, this -- this thought from especially President Trump that putting -- pushing more sanctions, threatening more sanctions, keeping them on the table or even putting them in place against Russia right now would move them away from the negotiating table, not force them to it?

[08:45:05]

BOLTON: Well, it's 100% wrong. I think we've seen this over and over again. It's -- it's only when people who threaten our security believe that our capabilities are greater than theirs and it's really their security that's being threatened, whether we do that through deterrence or through active measures like sanctions to avoid conflict. That's what gets them to listen to us seriously.

And when it reverts simply to the world of talk, that allows the Russians, in this case specifically, to continue their operations and to continue to gain ground without -- without really the threat of further economic pressure.

BOLDUAN: I mean, just a basic fact, like if Vladimir Putin doesn't even recognize President Zelenskyy as the legitimate leader of Ukraine, I mean, do you see them sitting down together? Or is it naive for the president's team to be out publicly saying, as they did yesterday, that accommodations for that meeting are underway?

BOLTON: Well, you know, I don't know what the president's team is thinking, but it seems to be, well, we had a meeting with Putin, we had a meeting with the Europeans, now we'll have a meeting between Putin and Zelenskyy, and Trump will come in at the end and seal the deal, as if we can do this in sort of 15 minutes.

This is much more complicated, as I think everybody outside the United States at least knows. And the idea that we're going to be able to bounce either the Russians or the Ukrainians or both into a peace deal that isn't very carefully negotiated is just illusory.

And I think -- I think it's a real risk that by pushing too hard too early, that whatever chance there is of convincing the Russians that we're serious about imposing more pain on them will just disappear in this rush to try and get an agreement. It's a route to failure.

BOLDUAN: I want to play for you how President Trump talked about Vladimir Putin just yesterday.

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DONALD TRUMP (R), U.S. PRESIDENT: You saw that when he got off his plane, I got off my plane. There's a warmth there that you can't, you know, there's a -- there's a decent feeling and it's a good thing. Not a bad thing.

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BOLDUAN: What do you think of that?

BOLTON: Trump thinks that state-to-state relations are completely embodied in the personal relations of the leaders. He said it himself publicly. So, he thinks he's friends with Vladimir Putin. That's a good thing because it means U.S.-Russian relations are good. That is simply not true. I'm not dismissing personal relations in foreign affairs, but I'm saying if you're dealing with a hard man like Vladimir Putin or Xi Jinping or Kim Jong Un, they're not moved by personal affection for Donald Trump or anybody else. They're moved by their view of their national interest.

And that's -- that's not what we're doing on our side. And I think that this -- this is -- this pursuit of an agreement without really knowing what we want out of it at the end, other than Donald Trump getting a Nobel Peace Prize, is not helpful.

BOLDUAN: Ambassador Bolden, thank you so much. It's good to see you. I appreciate your time.

John.

BERMAN: The Texas House of Representatives could vote as early as today on new redistricting plans. Democrats are staging a protest inside the House chamber, refusing to leave as they have been placed under law enforcement watch. State Rep. Nicole Collier has been inside for more than a day now. That's despite an active shooter threat that led to evacuations yesterday. The redistricting plans, which are almost certain to pass, would create five more Republican-leaning House districts.

Let's get right to CNN's Arlette Saenz in Austin, it may be, you know, game time today in Texas, finally, Arlette.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, that's what Texas House Republicans are hoping, as they could hold the first votes on this redistricting bill a little bit later today. But the timeline for final passage between the House and Senate still remains a bit in flux.

Now, the Texas House will reconvene at 10 a.m. Central time, and when they come back into that House chamber, they will be able to begin debate on these new proposed maps that could net Republicans up to five U.S. House seats.

Now, it's unclear how long this debate process could go, but Democrats are planning to use their time to try to make the arguments against this bill as they are preparing for legal challenges ahead. There is really nothing that Democrats can do legislatively to stop these maps from going forward, as it will have enough GOP support to pass. But one show of protests that we have seen play out are those lawmakers who have spent the night on the House floor.

There were a total of seven Democrats yesterday who were protesting the moves from Republicans that required around-the-clock supervision from law enforcement if they were to leave the Capitol. They were joining State Representative Nicole Collier, who has spent two nights on the floor. And here is how State Representative Gene Wu, who leads House Democrats, has described this moment.

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REP. GENE WU (D-TX): This is a civil discussion, and there's a disagreement. And in order to win, the other side is willing to use force, to use the arms of the state to get what they want. Good guys don't do that.

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SAENZ: So, a lot of eyes will be on that House chamber right behind me in the coming hours as these lawmakers are set to convene in just a few hours.

BERMAN: Yeah, little that Democrats can do inside Texas. But California is a different story, and there's action out there as well, Arlette.

SAENZ: Yeah, Democrats are pushing along with their plans to launch their own maps that could pick up as many as five Democratic seats and also shore up some blue areas for lawmakers. These bills have passed out of two committees. There will be another committee meeting tomorrow, and they are anticipating having a vote on those proposed maps tomorrow.

Though the big difference between Texas and California is that California voters will still have a say on this in November. They will need to vote to amend the Constitution to allow these maps to go forward. And Republicans are doing everything they can, whether it's lawsuits or also trying to wage those messaging campaigns to try to convince voters not to back this.

BERMAN: Arlette, signs in Austin, Texas today where there could be some developments in that story.

So, you may have heard of what some are calling Alligator Alcatraz, but what about the Cornhusker Clink, the race by some states to build new detention centers for immigrants?

And I got to say, I doubt this is what you want to hear. The shrimp in your freezer could be radioactive. The new warning from the FDA.

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[08:55:52]

BERMAN: A 10-year-old from Atlanta is making history again. So, four years ago, Kendall Ray Johnson became the youngest USDA-certified farmer in the country. Now, she has awarded a full-ride agriculture scholarship to South Carolina State University. She says she's the first 10-year-old to receive a full ride. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

URSULA, KENDALL'S MOM: She just wanted to grow. And once she found her love of just wanting to grow, I think that blossomed into what you see today.

KENDALL RAY JOHNSON, YOUNG FARMER: What do I want for my future? Well, I want 100 acres of land.

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BERMAN: When she gets that 100 acres, she says she wants to raise poultry and longhorn cattle in addition to crops, good for her.

Kate?

BOLDUAN: I love it. So, Nebraska's Republican governor has announced plans this week for a new immigration detention center in his state, saying that he is working with DHS to use an existing minimum-security prison in a remote town to pull it off. He said the center will house minimal to low-risk individuals awaiting deportation and those being held for other immigration-related proceedings. And they're dubbing it Cornhusker Clink, clearly riffing off the Alligator Alcatraz moniker from Florida.

And a former Miami heat security officer has pleaded guilty to stealing and selling millions of dollars' worth of team memorabilia during his five years with the team. The man was part of a game day team security detail. Prosecutors say that he has, he accessed a secured equipment room that housed

valuable memorabilia multiple times over the course of those five years.

In all, they say he stole more than 400 game-worn jerseys and other items that were intended for a future heat museum. And this morning, federal health officials are warning the public to not eat certain bags of frozen shrimp from Walmart because it could possibly be radioactive. The FDA asked the retailer to pull great value brand shrimp after detecting a radioactive isotope in shipping containers. The frozen shrimp sold in 13 states had a best by date of March 15th, 2027.

John?

BERMAN: Again, I do feel like eating radioactive shrimp is the beginning of many superhero movies. Maybe the origin story of Shellfish Man.

New this morning, hundreds of current and former HHS staffers are calling on Secretary Robert Kennedy Jr. to stop spreading inaccurate health information. The letter comes over increased fears among staff after a shooter fired hundreds of rounds at CDC headquarters. The staffers also say the secretary has been, quote, "complicit in dismantling America's public health infrastructure and endangering the nation's health by repeatedly spreading inaccurate health information." Let's get right to CNN's Meg Tirrell with the latest here. This is

former and current staffers?

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, that's right, John. Hundreds of them signing onto this letter this morning, both from CDC, but also from other agencies across the Department of Health and Human Services. And this comes, of course, after the shooting at CDC on August 8th, where hundreds of rounds were fired by the shooter at buildings at the CDC's headquarters.

The Georgia Bureau of Investigations saying that the shooter expressed discontent with the COVID vaccine and wanted to make his distrust known. So, these staffers in this letter to Secretary Kennedy, as well as members of Congress, are asking RFK Jr. to, quote, "stop spreading inaccurate health information, also to affirm CDC's scientific integrity, they say, and to guarantee the safety of the entire HHS workforce."

Now, we haven't yet heard back from the Department of Health and Human Services on this letter, which was just posted this morning. However, the secretary did say on August 9th in a post on X that, quote, "We are actively supporting CDC staff on the ground and across the agency, and he says public health workers show up every day with purpose, even in moments of grief and uncertainty."

Guys, that response though, was criticized by a number of folks across public health, including former surgeon general, Dr. Jerome Adams, who served in the first Trump administration, who called the response delayed and tepid. So, these employees asking for more from the Secretary Kennedy, including to stop spreading what they say is dangerous misinformation about vaccines.

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