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CDC in Chaos?; Interview With Sen. Tina Smith (D-MN); Minneapolis School Shooting Investigation. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired August 28, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. I'm Boris Sanchez in Washington, D.C., alongside my colleague Laura Coates, who's live for us in Minneapolis, where a prayer service is about to begin for a community shattered by yesterday's school shooting.

We're also standing by as the first White House briefing since this tragedy is set to begin at any moment. And, right now, two small crosses stand near the sanctuary where an 8-year-old and 10-year-old were shot and killed during a school church service.

We have just learned as of moments ago that the count of those injured has been updated. It's now 18 others who were wounded. Today, the windows there are boarded up one day after terror unfolded inside the church, terror as we are watching unfold in new video that CNN has just obtained.

This is from a dad who heard the gunfire and raced to find his daughters. We should warn you, this footage is disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where are they? Where's the shooter? Where's the shooter?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one knows.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my gosh.

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: You see faces of pain and panic and confusion. The search for a motive is now widening, as police are uncovering some chilling new details, a source saying the shooter visited the church just weeks ago and most likely tried to get inside during yesterday's mass, but ended up shooting through the windows because all the doors were locked.

We're also now hearing from some of the survivors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAVEN WILLIS, STUDENT: Well, right when I heard the shots, I knew something was off. I didn't think that they would have -- a lot of my classmates thought it was confetti and fireworks. But I didn't think they would have that during the middle of the church service.

So, honestly, it was just -- at that point, I was like I want to try to keep everybody as safe as possible. So I told me and my two buddies to get down and to get under the pew. And right when I told them that, it was like a state of shock for me. And I knew that I had to try to keep as many people around me as I could safe.

I prayed, and I said my few prayers. And then I realized, like, I can't just sit here and focus on myself, knowing that, with God on my side, I would be fine. So I tried to just go and help out my fellow classmates to try to keep them calm and safe and let them know that they will be OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just cried. I just thanked God and cried and held him. And just thankfully I was one of the ones who did get to see my kid when I got there.

VINCENT FRANCOUAL, PARENT: We had a session with the counselor. And she told the counselor that she thought she was going to die on that day. So we're really at the bottom right now. And there's no -- there's not really any rule of books for it. So we're just going to do the best we can.

CARLA MALDONADO, PARENT: I have such mixed feelings right now, so many of them. But I am just incredibly grateful that the school did and had been preparing, and also just incredibly sad and angry that this has to be a thing in any school, that we had to, like, prepare our kids to protect themselves, like, from an assault, from a firearm assault at school.

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And my mind is going everywhere. Like, this is not the first time. I'm not the first parent to express these concerns. I'm not the first mom to say how many more kids have to get killed. And so it's a little bit like this is feeling like a broken record, and it's not OK.

One is too much. And it's just -- it's not OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Let's go now live to Laura Coates in Minneapolis -- Laura.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: One is too many, and none of this is OK. No truer words have ever been said, Boris. And here we are in this community and neighborhood not too far away from where I grew up in St. Paul. I own a house really about a couple miles away from here as well. And just thinking about this neighborhood, I wanted to set the scene for you.

This is a school that is in the middle of a neighborhood, a grocery store. A Starbucks is over here, different individual businesses, homes all around. In fact, if you go around the area, there are still remnants of what took place yesterday, because this is the first week of school.

You have got neon poster board signs with the words "Family" and arrows pointing to help people reunify with their children, a marquee behind us that is asking about tuition assistance available for students, welcoming back to a new school year that should have been what has taken place this week.

And I'm here with Whitney Wild, as we're watching all this unfold, because, Whitney, we're both mothers. We both have children who are in school, getting ready to start school. This hits so close to home across our entire nation.

And here we have this memorial now where kids should be walking back and forth, where recess should be taking place.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Yes, exactly.

I mean, we say it all the time, right, that this is unfathomable...

COATES: Yes.

WILD: ... that it's unspeakable. And we speak it. We imagine it. And here we are.

Let me bring you up to date on the investigation, because I think, the more information we have, the more people can find points along the timeline where tragedies like these can be stopped.

Minneapolis Police Chief Brian O'Hara was on air today giving us a quick lesson update and kind of walking us through how we got here. And what he made very clear is that this was a person who harbored a lot of hate.

As you and I have covered a lot of these, what is pretty common here -- and this is what the police chief had said -- was that there's a pretty typical path to situations like this. These are people who are isolated. They're very angry, quite often have an obsession with mass shooters.

Certainly, that was the case here.

COATES: And we know that because of the weapons had different names on it, reference points?

WILD: That's -- well, the weapons had -- in some cases, they had racial slurs. They had really crass slurs. One said "Kill Donald Trump."

Some of his writings expressed antisemitic, anti-black, anti-religious sentiments. But, further, it's juxtaposed with this -- some writings where the shooter is saying, "I'm sorry, I love my family." And so that is all a long way of saying that the twisted mind is illogical and harbors a lot of hate and is inclined violence.

And, again, the shooter was hyperfixated on a long list of mass shooters. And in one case -- and I'm not going to say their name, and nobody showed, by the way, because we should not be giving the shooters notoriety that they desperately crave. He had a drawing of the face of one of the shooters. I mean, he was that obsessed with these shooters.

Finally, what we know what law enforcement is doing is, they are continuing to interview dozens of people. We know they executed four search warrants yesterday. We're waiting to find out what was recovered from those search warrants.

COATES: And those include three homes or residences he's associated with, right?

WILD: Right. Yes. Yes, three residences connected with the shooter.

The -- there was an attempt to try to reach parents of the shooter who now live out of state. Earlier today, Minneapolis Police Chief Brian O'Hara said he wasn't sure if that had actually happened, but that effort is under way.

And then, finally, I will leave you with this. A lot of times, we talk about, what are the security precautions that can stop something like this, that help in these moments. And I will remind you, the shooter was outside. That's because he couldn't get in because some of the doors were locked.

And so there were security measures that made this -- this is an atrocious amount of carnage. It could have been just a slaughter inside. And, fortunately, there were security measures that slowed that shooter down, many people today thanking the officers who ran directly toward gunfire and saved so many lives -- Laura.

COATES: And we know there's more from the press conference, hearing about how they're going to prepare in the future, what has happened now, and what they're doing at this point, right?

WILD: That's right.

And we're also learning a lot more from the medical side of this. So Hennepin County has been extremely transparent in giving us updates on victims here. What we know is that, at just one hospital, there are nine victims. One of them is in critical condition. Some children have been treated and released.

At least four children have been treated and released so far. So that's the good news. There are a long list of heroes here, I mean, the teachers, the parents, the first responders. Here's more from the people right at the center of this who were responding here in Hennepin County to this emergency response.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTY SCHEERER, EMS CHIEF, HENNEPIN HEALTHCARE: I think there's a lot of maybe unrecognized heroes in this event, along with the children that were protecting other children, which is really amazing to hear about.

I might be saying too much, but we had one kid that covered up another kid and took a shotgun blast to his back and things like that.

DR. JON GAYKEN, HENNEPIN HEALTHCARE: One of the victims came in. And in the emergency department, this was a nurse manager from another unit, didn't have anything to do with what we would normally respond to. And one of the children were very scared and alone because everybody was running about doing their jobs.

And she went into the C.T. scanner with the patient, putting herself basically in the harm's way of radiation, which normally you evacuate the room. She put a little lead on and stayed there and held her hand and held her hair while she went to the scanner, so she didn't have to go through it alone.

Those are the types of things we witnessed yesterday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Wow.

WILD: I know. It's amazing to think that these people responded the way that they did.

On that child, that child hero who saved his friend, the medical experts are now saying -- the people at the very center of this are now saying that it is touch and go for that child. So keep them in your thoughts and prayers.

COATES: It is unbelievable, Boris, to think about what has happened and the unrecognized heroes.

And just more points from that press conference, we learned that law enforcement being able to arrive quickly and then give a heads-up to a trauma center that is well-versed, sadly, in gun violence and beyond in Hennepin County, they had trained for this, they said. Nonetheless, it was still particularly difficult.

The idea of neighbors -- I talked to a neighbor just last night who was an alum of the school whose children, grandchildren went there as well. And he talked about how he was in his home having a coffee. Remember, this is the very morning. You're talking about drop-off had just happened for many of these kids before they went to this all- school mass.

And he heard what he thought to be gunshots, wasn't quite sure until the 10th one, and then just dropped everything and started running. He was holding the hand of two girls who were obviously wounded, who were asking for their mothers and their fathers. And they asked him to stay. They were afraid. He did not leave their side.

This is the community we're talking about. There were also kids -- and this just hit so close to home, Boris, for so many parents who -- like my own, who have elementary school, who are training and these school shootings, and they were running to the Starbucks.

Well, we're going to go back. There's actually a briefing starting right now.

Boris?

SANCHEZ: Yes, let's go straight to the White House in the press Briefing Room with Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt.

Let's listen.

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KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: ... that took place yesterday at the Annunciation Catholic Church in Minneapolis, Minnesota, where a deranged shooter opened fire during morning mass, killing an innocent 8-year-old and 10-year-old; 14 other children and three adults were also injured during this horrible tragedy.

This was the first morning mass of the school year for these beautiful, innocent children. And this sacred religious service was desecrated by an evil monster. We are all eternally grateful to the heroic law enforcement officers and first responders whose courage and swift response aided all of those impacted by this horrible tragedy.

As Director Kash Patel confirmed yesterday, the FBI is currently investigating this shooting as an act of domestic terrorism and a hate crime targeting Catholics. President Trump signed a proclamation yesterday following his call with the governor of Minnesota, Tim Walz, acknowledging the victims and their families and directing flags to be flown at half-mast.

President Trump and the first lady encourage the entire nation to join all of us in praying for the victims and their families as they face unimaginable grief and loss. The White House and the FBI will continue to provide further updates as they become available.

I also have a quick scheduling announcement for you today. The president will travel to New York City on September 22 to address the United Nations General Assembly on Tuesday, September 23. On another matter, as Americans make their Labor Day weekend travel plans, they will be able to enjoy five-year low gas prices thanks to President Trump fully unleashing American energy dominance.

President Trump ended Joe Biden's green new scam policies and is delivering...

SANCHEZ: We have been listening to Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt there in the first White House press briefing since the horrific shooting yesterday in Minneapolis, the press secretary saying that a sacred religious service was desecrated by an evil monster.

She confirmed Kash Patel, the FBI director's statement that the agency is now investigating this as an act of domestic terror and a hate crime targeting Catholics. She also confirmed what we'd learned yesterday, that President Trump actually called Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, expressing condolences and offering support to the state of Minnesota, then the president also signing a proclamation, acknowledging the victims and ordering flags across the country to be flown at half-mast.

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On a separate note there, before pivoting to other matters, Leavitt broke the news that President Trump is planning to attend the United Nations General Assembly in late September.

Obviously, we will keep monitoring remarks at the White House to focus on what unfolded yesterday in Minnesota. No doubt that Leavitt will be asked what further steps the administration might take to prevent incidents like this from happening in the future.

We want to pose some of those questions and get to perspective now from Democratic Senator Tina Smith of Minnesota, who joins us live.

Senator, thank you so much for being with us.

I do want to let that you know, as we monitor the White House press briefing, we may jump back into it, depending on what the conversation is like.

I do want to start by just asking you what the community around the Annunciation School is like, because I understand that you live only a few miles away. What have you heard from folks in the area? How are they doing?

SEN. TINA SMITH (D-MN): I do live just a few miles from Annunciation Catholic School.

And I can tell you, it is a real anchor in that community. My own grandchildren don't go to Annunciation, but they live within a few miles as well, and I know that neighborhood like the back of my hand. And the intense tragedy of what happened yesterday is just overwhelming.

And at the same time, as Laura Coates was just describing, the stories of the heroism of the people in that neighborhood and how strong they are just moved me to tears as I was watching that video. So it feels very, very close to home for me.

SANCHEZ: Senator, I think in just moments we will hear in the press room questions of the administration about potential steps to mitigate these kinds of shootings.

And over and over again as they happen, we hear about the potential for some kind of gun control legislation to pass. I do want to point out that Minnesota has several gun laws on the books. They're actually, compared to a national level, fairly extensive. You require background checks. There are extreme risk laws, mandatory waiting periods, as well as requirements around secure storage, prohibitions on bump stocks and Glock switches.

You also can't possess guns if you have committed a felony, a hate crime or domestic abuse. There are also no guns allowed in K-12 schools. As we have heard often from opponents of these kinds of laws, they argue that gun laws are ineffective because, even with all of this in place, we still see horrendous acts. What would you say in response to that?

SMITH: Well, my home state has taken really important steps to reduce gun violence, and I'm proud of that.

But there are only so many things that an individual state can do, because guns pour into Minneapolis and Minnesota from all other parts of the country. And so I think we have to be realistic about what has to happen at the federal level.

And, listen, there is no one simple solution to this problem, but there is one reality, which is that the number one cause of fatality for young people in this country between 1 and 19 are firearms. We have more guns in this country than we have people. And this is a choice that we are making in our country.

No one thing is going to solve this, but we can't just sit back and say, oh, there's nothing we can do, because, I mean, those kids at Annunciation School and kids in schools all over the country deserve way better than that.

SANCHEZ: Senator, I do want to point out, according to the police chief there in Minneapolis, the shooter did purchase the guns legally in the state. They had no previous arrests or significant signs of mental health issues.

SMITH: Right.

SANCHEZ: But sort of to you -- if you could expand on your point, the idea behind gun control laws is that you sort of Swiss cheese the problem. You create enough guardrails, enough obstacles to someone obtaining a gun that it makes it less likely that something like this could happen, so that, given the legislation that was passed after Uvalde...

SMITH: That's right.

SANCHEZ: ... back in 2022, the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, there are still loopholes and issues that a lot of lawmakers argue are not addressed.

I wonder what you would say those are and if you have sensed any appetite from your Republican colleagues, who control Congress right now, to take up legislation that would pursue those goals. SMITH: Well, as you point out, we were able to pass important legislation just a couple of years ago led by my colleague Chris Murphy. It was bipartisan legislation, though, to start to close some of these loopholes and start to try to address some of the problems that we have with the just pervasive access to guns in this country.

And, I mean, that was meaningful. I believe that that legislation has saved lives, but it is not on its own nearly enough. And the reality is that we have members of Congress on the Republican side that are unwilling to go further until something changes, until they feel the need to go against the gun lobby and go with their constituents.

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Because the things that we're talking about to improve gun safety, universal background checks, broader red flag laws, I mean, an assault weapon ban, which we had in this country and was -- we believe was successful in reducing gun fatalities, those are all choices that we can make. And I think that that's what we should continue to push for.

I mean, I know that there is not one solution to this problem, but it is also just not viable to sit back and say there's nothing we can do in this moment. And I think it is on the Republicans and it is on the Trump administration to work with us and begin to move forward in a way that will make it so much harder for killers, vicious killers like the person who shot into Annunciation School yesterday, to make it harder for them to get their weapons.

I want to just also say that, while we know that most people who experience mental illness are not violent, we also know that there are steps that we can take to get better access to mental health care in this country. And, in fact, we passed that legislation in the Safer Communities Act we were just talking about.

And yet the Trump administration is rolling back those grants and that program funding. And I don't believe that that's making any of us safer.

SANCHEZ: To the point about mental illness being a factor in acts like this, HHS Secretary RFK Jr. said this morning that NIH is studying links between gender-affirming care and SSRIs, antidepressants. He says that they -- quote -- "might be contributing to violence."

You described that as the secretary peddling B.S. I wonder why.

SMITH: Yes.

Well, this is the pattern of RFK. He cherry-picks small bits of information. It's the same thing that he's done with vaccines. And then he tries to say that this is the cause of the problem. And I said this morning, I dare you to go to Annunciation School and say that guns don't kill kids, antidepressants do.

And the fact is that the data is quite clear. There is no evidence of any link between people's use of antidepressants and gun violence or school shootings. So it is blatantly irresponsible of him to lift this up the day after this violent attack happened in a school just a few blocks from where I live and where so many Minnesotans are heartbroken to somehow say that, oh, the problem is antidepressants.

It's the height of irresponsibility. And this is who he is. This is what he does, is bring up these kinds of ridiculous bits of information that confuse people and are not helpful.

SANCHEZ: Senator, before we go, I just wonder what your message is to those kids at Annunciation, those who survived who now are wondering about what their futures look like, how their friends are doing, and what it's going to be like for them to step into a classroom again.

SMITH: Well, they have been through a really, really hard thing.

And I want them to know that their community loves them, their family loves them, and we are going to do everything we can to keep them safe. These little kiddos are really resilient, but they have gone through a massive shock that they will never, ever get over. And we need to do better for them.

SANCHEZ: Senator Tina Smith, we have to leave the conversation there. Thank you so much for the time.

SMITH: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: And as we monitor this White House press briefing, we want to let you know that there is a major exodus happening at the CDC after the White House fires the agency's director just weeks after she was confirmed by the Senate.

What lies ahead after one staffer says the agency is crumbling?

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SANCHEZ: We have breaking news on a shakeup at the CDC.

Just moments ago, top officials who announced their resignations yesterday were escorted out of the building. This is happening after the White House fired the agency's director, Dr. Susan Monarez, less than a month after she was sworn in.

Monarez's attorneys are pushing back on her removal. They say -- quote -- "As a presidential appointee confirmed by the Senate, only the president himself can fire her." The White House is standing by its decision.

Here's White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEAVITT: Look, what I will say about this individual is that her lawyers' statement made it abundantly clear themselves that she was not aligned with the president's mission to make America healthy again.

And the secretary asked her to resign. She said she would and then she said she wouldn't. So the president fired her, which he has every right to do. It was President Trump who was overwhelmingly reelected on November 5. This woman has never received a vote in her life and the president has the authority to fire those who are not aligned with his mission.

A new replacement will be announced by either the president or the secretary very soon. And the president and Secretary Kennedy are committed to restoring trust and transparency and credibility to the CDC by ensuring their leadership and their decisions are more public- facing, more accountable, strengthening our public health system and restoring it to its core mission of protecting Americans from communicable diseases, investing in innovation to prevent, detect, and respond to future threats.

That's the mission of the CDC and we're going to make sure that folks that are in positions of leadership there are aligned with that mission.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Let's get some perspective now with CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner. He is a professor of medicine and surgery at George Washington University.

Dr. Reiner, great to see you, as always.

What concerns do you have about the ouster of the CDC director? How does the medical community view this?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, the medical community views now CDC as in complete chaos.