Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

New Details Emerge in Minneapolis School Shooting; Trump Revokes Kamala Harris' Secret Service Protection; Court Holds Hearing on Firing of Federal Reserve Governor; Chaos at CDC. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired August 29, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:00:52]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Politics and public health, collision course. We're watching it all play out at the nation's top public health agency. What happens when the Trump administration's vision is at odds with the science and Americans' health is caught in the middle?

Plus, a legal face-off, a judge hearing arguments in the first ever attempt by a U.S. president to fire a Fed governor. We have the latest from court, as the Trump administration ramps up its pressure on the Central Bank.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And detail denied, the president just revoking Kamala Harris' Secret Service protection extended by President Biden before he left office.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: We start this hour with another major change today at the CDC. HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has now named his deputy, Jim O'Neill, as acting CDC director amid a tumultuous shakeup at the agency.

O'Neill is set to take over after director Dr. Susan Monarez was fired this week, a position that she held only a few weeks after getting confirmed by the Senate. And O'Neill was actually there for her swearing-in ceremony in late July.

We're learning that Dr. Monarez was pushed out after clashing with Kennedy over vaccine policy. Her ousting led several other high- ranking CDC officials to resign in protest. And O'Neill's appointment is already raising eyebrows. He doesn't have a medical degree or an advanced degree in public health. That's a first for any CDC director, acting or not.

During the COVID pandemic, O'Neill also openly championed unproven, controversial treatments like ivermectin. CNN's Jacqueline Howard joins us now live from Atlanta.

So, Jacqueline, what more are you hearing about Jim O'Neill?

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Well, Boris, I know many CDC employees have said that they want to know where his priorities lie, what his stance is on vaccine policies, because, as you mentioned, there are many questions just around his background and his philosophies here.

Now, during his confirmation hearing to serve as HHS deputy secretary, he did say that he supports vaccines. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM O'NEILL, ACTING CDC DIRECTOR: Senator, as you know, I'm very strongly pro-vaccine. I'm an adviser to a vaccine company. I support the CDC vaccine schedule.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD: And, Boris, we also know that, as you mentioned, Jim O'Neill is not a doctor, but he does have history within the Department of Health and Human Services. He did work there during the George W. Bush administration.

And we know, in recent years, he has spent years as a technology and biotech investor in Silicon Valley. He had stints with the Thiel Foundation and the Thiel Fellowship working alongside billionaire Peter Thiel.

But as we see him next as acting CDC director, like I said, there are these questions around where he will steer the ship at CDC, especially when it comes to vaccine policies.

SANCHEZ: And vaccine policies, Jacqueline, top of mind right now is we're heading into autumn, a time when many people might be getting their flu shots, their COVID shots.

But the FDA this week approved the updated COVID-19 vaccines for a limited group. And, in some states, you might not actually just be able to walk into a pharmacy and get the shot anymore. So who is now eligible for a vaccine this year and where?

HOWARD: That's right, Boris.

The groups that are eligible are adults ages 65 and older and younger people who are at an increased risk of severe COVID-19. So that may be due to an underlying health condition. But, in some states, some states have a policy where pharmacists cannot offer vaccines that are not recommended by the CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices.

And I spoke with CVS pharmacy. They said that in some of those states, in 16 states, you can't just walk in to a pharmacy and be offered the COVID-19 vaccine. Among those states, all but three, however, in those all but three states will have pharmacists administer vaccines if you have an authorized prescriber's prescription.

[13:05:23]

So in some states, you need the doctor's prescription to get your COVID shot, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Jacqueline Howard, thanks so much for the reporting -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Some of the officials who resigned from the CDC are raising serious questions about the decision-making at HHS. Here's what one of them told CNN's Kaitlan Collins last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DEMETRE DASKALAKIS, FORMER DIRECTOR, NATIONAL CENTER FOR IMMUNIZATION AND RESPIRATORY DISEASES: I think that another important thing to ask the secretary is, has he been ever briefed by a CDC expert on anything, specifically, measles, COVID-19, flu? I think that people should ask him that in that hearing. That's number one.

So the answer is no. So, no one from my center has ever briefed him on any of those topics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Let's bring in Dr. Leana Wen.

She's a former Baltimore health commissioner and emergency physician.

Dr. Wen, what is your reaction to that, hearing that Secretary Kennedy has not been briefed on those important subjects?

DR. LEANA WEN, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN: Well, it's very disturbing.

I mean, we're talking here about the CDC, which is the premier public health institution, not only in the U.S., but worldwide. Other countries name their health agencies, the CDC after the U.S. because of its storied history.

And so the fact that we have all these incredible experts, subject matter experts, who are the best minds in the country, physicians, scientists with many years of experience working there, who have the data, who can provide the analysis -- and I know from having spoken to many of them, they're eager to brief Secretary Kennedy.

They're eager to help to make America healthy again and to fulfill that agenda for promoting health and well-being. But the fact that their expertise has not been listened to makes you wonder, who is Secretary Kennedy listening to? Where is he obtaining his data? How is he making decisions, if it's not based on these key subject matter experts?

And I'm really worried, Brianna, about what's going to happen with vaccine policy, because we have seen that, with the ouster of the CDC director, who has said that the reason for the ouster, part of the reason for the ouster is that she was asked to sign off on changes to vaccine policy not based on science.

And so without that safeguard being there of a CDC director willing to push back, then what's going to happen to not just COVID vaccines, but also to routine childhood immunizations?

KEILAR: Yes, certainly.

The FDA under Kennedy has restricted the groups that COVID shots are approved for, but says that COVID shots are still available for everyone. Are COVID shots easily available if you want one, Dr. Wen?

WEN: Well, we have to be clear that right now it's only the FDA that has made its decision regarding approvals. The CDC still has to make its recommendations. And those CDC recommendations are very important because that's what the pharmacies, that's what physician's offices, that's what insurance companies are going to follow as well.

And it could be that the CDC recommends the vaccine for all the groups that currently are eligible under the FDA's authorization or under the FDA's approval. But the CDC could actually come out and limit the approvals even further.

And so even those groups that Jacqueline was talking about that currently the FDA has given approval for, it's possible that some of those groups may not have easy access, based on what the CDC puts out. And we also know that Secretary Kennedy has ousted all 17 previous members of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices that advise that the CDC, these external experts that advise the CDC on COVID and other matters.

And there are now individuals in place with dubious qualifications, some of whom have some quite significant anti-vaccine history. And so I would not say that it's a guarantee that even the groups that are approved by the FDA are now going to be able to get the COVID vaccine.

KEILAR: You wrote for "The Washington Post," and this is the point you just brought up about worried about -- being worried about vaccines at large.

You say: "Limiting COVID shots is just the beginning. Childhood vaccines are next."

What do you think is going to happen? What should we prepare for?

WEN: There are already some very ominous signs. This advisory committee that I mentioned reconstituted by Secretary Kennedy, they are already reviewing childhood vaccines on the immunization schedule, including hepatitis B, including measles, mumps, rubella, varicella, or chicken pox.

[13:10:00]

Secretary Kennedy has also said that he has some big announcement in September regarding autism. And given his history, where he has falsely linked autism and vaccines, one wonders whether there is already a predetermined conclusion and now there are cherry-picked data that he and his -- and whoever he's listening to, not the CDC experts, but whoever he's listening to have come up with to try to justify why certain childhood vaccines should be removed from the schedule.

Now, we don't know that this is exactly what's going to happen, but there are many signs that that could be the case. And I certainly know from speaking with my colleagues for our pediatricians, who are public health experts this is something that we're all watching closely and that we're all deeply concerned about, because we're talking here about vaccines that are effective, that have been safe, that have been used all around the world, that have been proven to save many lives.

And the fact that we could be going back in time and having children suffer unnecessarily is just really a horrific thought.

KEILAR: Yes.

Dr. Leana Wen, thank you for being with us -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Here in the nation's capital, an emergency hearing just ended with no immediate ruling, as a judge weighs whether Federal Reserve governor Lisa Cook can stay on the job while her lawsuit over her firing plays out.

President Trump made the unprecedented move of firing Cook earlier this week, citing allegations of mortgage fraud. Cook's attorney arguing today that the fraud allegation, which the Justice Department is investigating, has become the administration's -- quote -- "weapon of force."

The attorney argues -- quote -- "There was never cause to begin and it's just their efforts to get rid of governors so the president can have a majority."

Cook's attorney was referring to President Trump's intense campaign of pressuring the Central Bank to lower interest rates and his frequent threats to fire Chairman Jerome Powell. The DOJ arguing at today's hearing, though, that Trump's decision to fire Cook for cause cannot be reviewed.

CNN legal analyst Carrie Cordero joins us now.

Carrie, can it be reviewed, in your eyes?

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, so look, this case is not really about mortgage fraud. This case is about executive power, and it's about whether the president has the power to remove and fire the Fed governor who is appointed, who was confirmed by the Senate, and if the Fed, as an independent agency in the Federal Reserve in particular, enjoys sort of a very unique status in terms of a president's ability to remove her.

SANCHEZ: The Supreme Court has written about that. I will get there in a second, but I wonder what you think this could mean for the independence of the Fed.

Is this essentially a case that the administration has brought forth to test the executive's potential power over the Federal Reserve?

CORDERO: Absolutely.

And so there was even a court case last spring with respect to a different agency where the president was successful in his efforts to be able to remove. But, even in that case, with this particular Supreme Court, the court carved out something in its opinion and talked about the Fed Board in particular, probably previewing that something like this might happen.

So, in this case, Lisa Cook and her lawyers have gone to court. They're asking for an order for the judge to halt her firing. And there is some urgency to this, maybe not today urgency, but the Fed Board is supposed to meet in mid-September and there will be a vote. And so her position and her vote on interest rates, which, of course, is a policy and political issue for the president, is very important.

So the judge had the hearing today, has requested more briefings. No decision yet on whether her request for an order halting her firing will go into effect.

SANCHEZ: Yes, the Supreme Court describing the Fed as a uniquely structured quasi-private entity, so, like you said, potentially foreshadowing a case like this.

I do wonder if you think that, based on simply a criminal referral, there might be enough grounds from the administration to go after her or anyone else, whether on the Fed or somewhere else. Do you need a conviction on something like mortgage fraud in order to have cause or is it just about the president's standing?

CORDERO: So the issue in this case, it really does get to, what is cause?

So the Federal Reserve Act actually has a provision that said a president can remove a governor for cause. The question is, is, what does cause mean? And the act itself, which lays this out for the Federal Reserve specifically, doesn't specify it.

So her lawyers are arguing, Ms. Cook's lawyers are arguing that, if you look to other cases that are sort of similar, then there's sort of criteria, whether it's malfeasance or negligence of their job or something that she would have had to have done in her job. Can't just be an allegation is what her lawyers are arguing.

And so we have to actually see whether the judge in this case, and certainly, no matter how this judge rules, it will be appealed and I would expect to go all the way up to the Supreme Court, but how far courts are willing to go to define what actual cause -- quote, unquote -- "cause" is for removing a Federal Reserve governor.

[13:15:10]

SANCHEZ: Yes, no ruling today, obviously a case we will continue to watch.

Carrie Cordero, thanks so much.

CORDERO: Thanks.

SANCHEZ: Appreciate it.

Still plenty more news to come, including President Trump canceling Kamala Harris' security detail. Insiders say the order means the former V.P. will lose much more than just the agents guarding her.

Plus, new details in the Minneapolis Catholic school shooting, including signs that the attack may have been years in the making.

And, later, the U.S. Air Force reverses course -- why it's now offering military funeral honors to a January 6 rioter.

These stories and much more are coming your way in just moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:20:12]

KEILAR: This just in, sources telling CNN that Republican Senator from Iowa Joni Ernst has decided not to seek reelection to a third term. Ernst has been wrestling with the decision for months, but began telling friends here in recent days.

Her retirement creates an open Senate seat in Iowa. One GOP official says Congresswoman Ashley Hinson is making plans to jump into the race. A crowded field of Democrats is already running.

And former Vice President Kamala Harris is about to launch a high- profile multicity book tour, but she will not have a Secret Service detail when she hits the road. President Trump just revoked her protection services, according to a letter that was reviewed by CNN.

Her service period officially ended late last month, per federal law, but sources tell CNN President Biden extended it for another year just before he left office.

CNN White House reporter Alayna Treene is here with more.

Did Trump give a reason for pulling her detail? And what might this mean for her, Alayna?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, no, we have seen no specific reasoning for this.

And I would note some of the reporting from our colleague Isaac Dovere, which is really great, he essentially said that there was no security assessment that went along with this that provided any sort of reasoning for why this might happened. But he also noted the context in this, which is important as well, which is that presidents get Secret Service protection for life.

Vice presidents, however, normally only get it for six months. And, of course, as you mentioned, that was extended for an additional year by then-President Joe Biden before he left office. And I would note as well, just looking at the history of the president when it comes to some of -- having Secret Service protection, we have seen President Donald Trump revoke the security clearances and some Secret Service protection for a lot of other people.

This was actually a couple of months ago earlier in his second term, but we saw the likes of things for John Bolton, Anthony Fauci, the list goes on, for some of the security that he was pulling. And we have heard him say that he believes people like that should be paying for their own security.

But this is different. And this is what people who are close to Kamala Harris told our colleague Isaac is essentially that the reason that Biden had extended this was, one, she was not only the first woman vice president, she was also the first black woman.

And, of course, the concerns and threats that she was potentially facing only were heightened after she was -- became the Democratic nominee for president. So that's coming into this. And one thing that's really important to note as well quickly, Brianna, is that Secret Service protections aren't just having the security agents around her.

It includes some of the analysis of threat intelligence and covering in-person events and situations like e-mails, texts and social media. And so some aides are worried that she's actually going to lose access now to some of that very important threat analysis, particularly at a moment when you say that she's going on the road for her book tour.

KEILAR: So they aren't monitoring kind of like the chatter out there? She won't be getting that?

TREENE: That's what this says. I mean, essentially, a lot of what comes with the Secret Service protection, again, is not just the physical nature of having agents around her, but a lot of the intelligence that goes into the threat assessment and providing for these warnings, so definitely some concerns when it comes to Harris' team.

KEILAR: Yes, Alayna Treene live for us at the White House, thank you -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: We're learning new details about the victims, survivors and the shooter involved in Wednesday's school shooting in Minneapolis.

The families of 10-year-old Harper Moyski and 8-year-old Fletcher Merkel both sharing their heartbreak, Harper's parents describing her as a loving big sister whose -- quote -- "laughter, kindness and spirit touched everyone who knew her."

Eight-year-old Fletcher Merkel's father says his son loved his family, friends, fishing, cooking and any sport he was allowed to play.

CNN also spoke exclusively with a young survivor who described terror and confusion inside the church as shots rang out, while also sharing glimmers of courage. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHLOE FRANCOUAL, SHOOTING SURVIVOR: The teacher was in the middle of saying our prayers. And then we heard just one shot. It felt -- I smelt smoke before everything, but I heard one shot. I thought it was a firework, like everybody else.

The second shot was just everybody just covering their ears. The third shot was when everybody started ducking low. And all these shots were like slow, until the fourth shot. It started getting faster and faster. And then that's when everybody took into action.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:25:06]

SANCHEZ: For the very latest on the investigation, let's bring in CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller.

And, John, officials say that they have gathered a wide array of testimony, hundreds of pieces of evidence in this case. But there is one individual that they have yet to speak to that they're interested in.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So that has been the mother of the shooter and the parents in general.

Now, what we have learned from the Minneapolis police is, after the chief's statement yesterday, that they had been unable to conduct that interview, they are now saying they are in touch with the parents, parents, plural. So it looks like those wheels are turning.

Now, this started on the day of the shooting. The mother had worked at that school in the business office, I believe as a bookkeeper, and retired around 2021, moved to Florida, away from Minneapolis. That day, I believe the Minneapolis P.D. and the FBI contacted the Tampa field division. They sent agents out from the Fort Myers R.A. to go to that address to make contact.

But it did not result in an interview. So it seems like they are now in contact. And there may be things going on in the background, Boris. She may want an attorney, she may want to deal with the issues of her child obtaining the body, making arrangements before that happens.

But it sounds like they are in contact now, and that process is moving forward, at least on that end.

SANCHEZ: John Miller, thanks so much for the update.

Up next: It was touted by both federal and Florida officials, but the detention center dubbed Alligator Alcatraz could soon be empty, within days, and Florida taxpayers may be stuck with a massive 200 million- plus-dollar bill.

Plus, oxygen masks deployed, one passenger reportedly hitting the ceiling multiple times. What happened on this Southwest flight? Right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)