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D.C. Sues Trump Administration Over National Guard Deployment; Interview With Rep. Troy Carter (D-LA); Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Grilled on Capitol Hill. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired September 04, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: But, as was pointed out several times today, it is far harder today than it was even a month ago or certainly a year ago to get the shot if you want it. And that really goes for anybody in the country, at least in these states.

And it's a patchwork. So it's really challenging and very confusing, far more confusing than it needs to be. We know the specifics that he said. It's no longer recommended for pregnant people or healthy children. Pregnant people, by the way, are often -- they're at increased risk. And he ended the EUA as well.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Yes, and, again, it's not -- we're not talking about mandates. We're talking about availability, two very, very different things.

GUPTA: Availability, exactly.

BASH: Thank you, Sanjay. Appreciate it.

Thank you for joining this very abbreviated INSIDE POLITICS.

"CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Grilled on the Hill, Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. facing off with lawmakers, one calling him a charlatan, as others warn his changes in HHS could not only hurt public health, but could ultimately cost American lives.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And reinvestigating or trying to rewrite history? Republicans creating a new panel to investigate the deadly January 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol again.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

HILL: A hazard to the health of the American people, that charge from Georgia Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock leveled at Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. just moments ago.

It was one of many fiery moments today as senators grilled the secretary over his changes at HHS and his Make America Healthy Again agenda, that hearing just wrapping up in the last few moments.

Senator after senator, though, over the past several hours grilling Kennedy about the chaos of the CDC and the turmoil over vaccines.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., U.S. HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: We are the sickest country in the world. That's why we have to fire people at CDC.

SEN. RON WYDEN (D-OR): I hope that you will tell the American people how many preventable child deaths are an acceptable sacrifice for enacting an agenda that I think is fundamentally cruel and defies common sense.

KENNEDY: I wasn't aware he said it, but I agree with it.

SEN. MICHAEL BENNET (D-CO): You agree with it? It's not true. It wasn't true when he said it and it is not true when you said it.

KENNEDY: You're evading the question.

BENNET: You -- no, I'm asking the questions here.

KENNEDY: You're evading the question.

BENNET: I'm asking the questions.

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): I would say, effectively, we're denying people vaccine.

SEN. MIKE CRAPO (R-ID): Senator Cantwell.

KENNEDY: I think you're wrong.

I don't know how many died.

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): You're the secretary of health and human services. You don't have any idea how many Americans died from COVID?

KENNEDY: I don't think anybody knows that.

I'm happy to have a detailed discussion with you about it. You're so wrong on your facts.

SEN. MARIA CANTWELL (D-WA): You're interrupting me. And, sir, you're a charlatan. That's what you are.

KENNEDY: That data -- no, the data is all public.

SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN (D-NH): Now parents who decide that they do want their children to have it...

KENNEDY: You're just making stuff up.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HILL: Just minutes before the hearing began, the CDC director Kennedy just ousted pending a scathing rebuke in "The Wall Street Journal," saying that efforts to undermine vaccines right now -- quote -- "isn't reform. It is sabotage."

CNN's Arlette Saenz following all this action for us on Capitol Hill.

And, Arlette, these were bipartisan fireworks, it's important to point out.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there really were. This was an incredibly contentious hearing, as lawmakers pressed Secretary Kennedy on the turmoil at the CDC and his position on vaccine policy.

Now, we have been speaking to senators throughout the hearing as they have been coming out. There's basically a chorus from Democrats who believe the Secretary Kennedy was lying in there. Now, there was one exchange in particular of notes relating to the ousted CDC Director Susan Monarez.

Senator Wyden was questioning Secretary Kennedy about some statements that she had made in a "Wall Street Journal" op-ed this morning claiming that she was asked to preapprove recommendations from a vaccine advisory panel that's handpicked by Secretary Kennedy before that panel even met.

And Kennedy essentially said that she was lying in her "Wall Street Journal" op-ed. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: No, I did not.

WYDEN: That's a yes or no. So you have an opportunity to call her a liar if you say that you didn't do it. But I'd like to see you respond to this.

KENNEDY: No, I did not say that to her. And I never had a private meeting with her. Other witnesses to every meeting that we have, and all those witnesses will say I never said that.

WYDEN: So she's lying today to the American people in "The Wall Street Journal"?

KENNEDY: Yes, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:05:04]

SAENZ: Now, several senators, Democratic senators that we spoke to during the hearing, said that they want the ousted CDC Director Monarez to come up here to Capitol Hill to testify.

I think some of the other noteworthy moments from this hearing was the push that you saw several Republican senators make towards Kennedy. He was challenged on vaccines by Senator Bill Cassidy, Senator Thom Tillis, as well as Senator John Barrasso, who hasn't really been that outspoken about his concerns in the past.

But he said, over the past few months, he's developed some concerns about the vaccine policy. After his exchange with Kennedy, I asked Secretary Barrasso -- or Senator Barrasso if he still has confidence in Kennedy's ability to serve. He was getting in the elevators at that time, and he simply said that he trusts what President Trump is trying to do and is not going to second-guess that.

As for Senator Thom Tillis, I also asked him specifically that question if he still has confidence in Secretary Kennedy's ability to serve. And he said that he has a lot of concerns stemming from the turmoil that we have seen at the CDC with the ousting of Monarez. He still wants to get more information on that, still wants to get some more information on the science relating to vaccine policy.

But he said that both sides of the aisle need to cut through the political B.S. to try to get some answers here, as he's concerned about the potential undermining not just of the CDC, but of the government's ability to help children as it relates to vaccines.

HILL: All right, Arlette, really appreciate your reporting and the follow-ups. Thank you -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Let's dig deeper on this with Dr. David Shulkin. He worked as the secretary of Veterans Affairs during President Trump's first term in office.

Secretary, thanks so much for being with us.

What did you make of everything you heard at today's hearing?

DR. DAVID SHULKIN, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF VETERANS AFFAIRS: Boris, I don't think that this hearing did much in terms of restoring the confidence in the system for most Americans who are watching this, the Americans that want to have a government that they trust and understand and, frankly, that is going to be there in the next pandemic, should that happen.

And, unfortunately, all that we really saw was Washington politics at its worst today. The secretary was defiant, he was combative, but I don't think he did much in terms of really shedding light on any facts or data to be able to give confidence that this agency is headed in the right direction or that people are going to be clear with advice on what to do when they go to their doctor and their pharmacist.

So I don't think that this had the impact that I think that the secretary was hoping that it would.

SANCHEZ: There was a lot of discussion about Operation Warp Speed, the ramp-up to develop a vaccine that would respond to the COVID pandemic, obviously, a crowning achievement for President Trump specifically in his first term, though the secretary described the process of Operation Warp Speed as a politicized one.

Is that a legitimate concern to you?

SHULKIN: No, I think what we saw was a fair amount of consistency from the senators, both Republicans and Democrats, understanding that this was actually -- Warp Speed was a public-private partnership that was a dramatic success and something that, frankly, President Trump does deserve credit, because that happened under his first term.

But the secretary, rather than being able to build upon that and say where we're going to go in the future, how we're going to continue to build on public-private partnerships and be able to build up the resiliency of our public health system, really, that's where he lost the narrative.

And he basically said, but it went wrong from there. And I think, again, we need to see confidence in this system. We have a very, very strong infrastructure in place. America should continue to be leading in this area. And I think that's what people want to see from government.

SANCHEZ: And, obviously, the erosion of trust in public health institutions didn't start when RFK Jr. took over as HHS secretary. There was a poll from January. This is a KFF poll before Trump returned to the White House that shows just a large degree of distrust for just about all federal health agencies and state and local public health agencies as well.

How do we go about regaining that trust now, when, as you put it, what we saw on display today on Capitol Hill didn't really move things forward in a positive direction?

[13:10:11]

SHULKIN: Yes, I don't think there is a clear path that's been outlined.

Let's take a look at what happened today. The role of that Senate committee is oversight, and they were trying to do that. They were asking. They were well prepared. They were asking questions. They were looking for clear answers. And I'm not sure that we got much further down the road in terms of that.

We have to have political leadership in place that is going to restore the confidence. And the way to do that is through science-based or evidence-based policy. And so we're going to need to find somebody that's going to lead these agencies, particularly in this case the CDC, who has those qualifications.

We didn't hear a real clear, good reason why these firings happened. We heard a difference of opinion about the trustworthiness here. But I think the real issue is, were there policy differences and what type of leader is the secretary looking to have in place to be able to drive the agency and restore that confidence?

And I'm not sure that any of us got that answer today. So that still is work that's going to need to be done. I think that we saw that the secretary has 31 congressional letters that haven't been responded to yet.

I think we need to step up the ability to begin to start answering these questions, to provide the transparency in government, to get people in these positions that are going to be allowed to follow the science, to be able to begin to restore the confidence that we need, just as we're entering the fall, where we're likely to see new respiratory conditions that are going to require people to know what to do when they get sick.

SANCHEZ: To all the points you just outlined, Doctor, do you think it might be the time for President Trump to consider replacing Secretary Kennedy?

SHULKIN: I think that we all know that the secretary serves at the pleasure of the president. And I do think that this is becoming a national crisis of confidence.

And it's time for the president to weigh in. If the president continues to have confidence in the secretary, I think it's important that he tell us why and what direction we should be headed in and where these agencies are going to restore that type of public confidence.

But if the president no longer has that confidence, then I think we have seen this before. The president has the right and, frankly, the responsibility to have somebody in there that he is confidence in.

SANCHEZ: Dr. David Shulkin, always appreciate your perspective. Thanks for joining us.

SHULKIN: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Still to come this hour: As Chicago braces for a potential federal deployment, President Trump looks at New Orleans next -- how the blue city in a red state could complicate things.

And, later, Harvard getting a win in court after the Trump administration pulled billions in federal funding.

You're watching CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We will be right back.

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[13:17:49]

SANCHEZ: We're following breaking news into CNN. Washington, D.C., officials today suing the Trump administration over the deployment of thousands of National Guard troops into the city without the consent of local leaders. The lawsuit claims this action by President Trump violates the Constitution.

CNN correspondent Gabe Cohen is following this for us.

Gabe, what more are you learning about the lawsuit and how is the White House responding? GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so D.C.'s local attorney general

is essentially arguing here, Boris, that the Trump administration is violating federal law by deploying these troops and essentially deputizing them as local law enforcement, to function that way in the District, calling this essentially a military occupation.

I will read you a section of the complaint that was filed today in federal court. They say: "No American jurisdiction should be involuntarily subjected to military occupation. The District of Columbia brings this lawsuit to obtain declaratory and injunctive relief that will stop the defendants," the Trump administration, "their violation of law, remedy the harms that defendants," D.C., "are inflicting on the District and preserve the District's sovereignty."

Remember they have said that the Trump administration has been violating home rule here in the District, and that as we see now more than 2,000 National Guard troops out across Washington, many of them armed, some of them coming from six other GOP-led states.

Now, you asked, what is the White House saying? Well, they're essentially saying that this lawsuit is nonsense. To read you a quote from their deputy press secretary, they say: "This lawsuit is nothing more than another attempt, at the detriment of D.C. residents and visitors, to undermine the president's highly successful operations to stop violent crime in D.C."

They have been touting the decline in violent crime over the past few weeks. We have heard that from the White House. But I do want to note that the mayor here has been in a very tricky political position.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

COHEN: Because she's been trying to do this delicate dance, not antagonize the president and just sort of work through this federal emergency that is set to expire next week unless Congress decides that they are going to extend it.

This lawsuit, though, throws a little bit of fuel on the fire. And, today, we heard the mayor during a press event really refusing to endorse this lawsuit, saying 100 percent of her focus is just getting onto the other side of this emergency to try to lock up sovereignty here in Washington, even though that will likely mean still seeing more federal law enforcement in the coming months and possibly National Guard.

[13:20:18]

We know that their mission here has been extended until December, though it's not totally clear if they're actually going to be deployed up until that date.

SANCHEZ: Gabe Cohen, thank you so much for the update -- Erica.

HILL: Well, President Trump's crime crackdown may actually be heading south. He's been floating the idea of sending National Guard troops to New Orleans. While the governors of Illinois and Maryland have rejected similar

ideas for both Chicago and Baltimore, Louisiana's governor says he's all in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JEFF LANDRY (R-LA): President Trump is focused on getting control of our cities, but not doing it the way past presidents and other administrations have done, where it's temporary. What he wants to see is permanent safety for Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Governor Landry launched his own crime crackdown just last year, establishing a special State Police unit to improve safety in the Crescent City.

It's important to note too New Orleans has seen a drop in violent crime when you compare that with the first half of this year to last year, including a 22 percent drop in murders, homicides down 20 percent, rapes down 56 percent, robbery down 39 percent.

Joining me now to discuss, Democratic Congressman Troy Carter, who represents the New Orleans area.

Sir, it's good to have you with us this afternoon.

As I noted, your governor, who is a Republican, welcomes this idea from the president to send those troops into New Orleans. So it would not be against the wishes of the governors, as we saw in, of course, Los Angeles or Chicago. Do you believe the city has an illegal recourse if the state doesn't object?

REP. TROY CARTER (D-LA): Yes, I think we do.

The city of New Orleans has home rule charter. Our local charter vis- a-vis our local Constitution declares that the city has the autonomy to govern itself. Listen, we encourage and embrace any help that this president wants to give, but militarizing our city is not the way to do it.

You have noted in your reporting that crime is at an all-time low in New Orleans. Violent crime is down lower than it's been since the 1960s or '70s. That's significant. So we encourage any help that we can get from the federal government.

I would encourage this president, if he wants to help, to look back to what Bill Clinton did in 1995, when he worked with Congress to send federal dollars for community policing, to work at the core causes of crime, to work with our local department, and not attempt to take it over.

These community policing efforts made a huge difference in the city of New Orleans working with communities. And, listen, we're grateful to Governor Landry, who has had State Troopers on the ground working in conjunction collaboratively with the New Orleans Police Department. But to have a military zone created in the middle of the city of New

Orleans is not necessary and I think it's actually politically motivated, when you look at the attempts of each of these actions are all in cities that are run and governed by Democratic mayors.

HILL: You talk about how you would encourage, you would embrace help from President Trump. You laid out a couple of things you would like to see. I know you have also talked about help with recruitment, help with police training, also looking at impoverished areas.

Have you reached out to this administration to say, hey, can we talk about this, here are some ways we believe you could be effective?

CARTER: I sent a letter to the president today delineating these asks.

If you really want to be helpful to the people of New Orleans, identify funding sources that we can work with providing for better pay for police officers, better recruitment and retention, working with our district attorney's office so they can have the state-of-the- art equipment that allows them to have better prosecution rates and working with our sheriff to make sure that we have infrastructure that will protect the prison population to make sure we don't have outbreaks, as we have seen before.

There are a number of ways that this president could help if his desire is truly to help, and to not have what appears to me and many others as political theater, only going into cities where there are mayors that are operating that are in fact Democrat.

HILL: To that point, Governor Landry had said -- and I'm quoting him here -- "We will take President Trump's help from New Orleans to Shreveport."

Shreveport, of course, does have a Republican mayor. Last year, it did have a higher violent crime rate than D.C. Is that something that you believe -- you're saying this is political, looking at only at blue red cities. Is that something that you believe should be on the table then for President Trump?

CARTER: Well, it is quite suspicious that Shreveport, Monroe, Baton Rouge, that none of these cities are being talked about.

[13:25:07]

He said from New Orleans to Baton Rouge, but, in his direct statement, he said, we think we're going to go into New Orleans. The governor said Shreveport to New Orleans. The governor -- the president never said Shreveport. He never said Monroe. He never said Baton Rouge.

And if you look at those crime rates, they're higher than that of New Orleans. Now, listen, we're not pushing away any effort to push back against crime. What we're suggesting is, let's not make it political. Let's not make this some political theater, that the president wants to distract the American people by attacking Democratic-led cities. HILL: I hope you will let us know if and when you do get a response

from the president on that letter that you just sent today.

I also just wonder if you have any clarification in terms of the members of the Louisiana National Guard who are currently activated in D.C. Is it your understanding that, should this idea that the president is floating, should he follow through with it, the governor OKs it, would that potentially require the activation of additional Guards men and women?

Have you had any clarification on that point?

CARTER: Well, they would have to, because if these have already been deployed to D.C., and assuming they stay here, then they would have to obviously deploy additional troops.

And I might say that these troops are not being paid per diem because they're going to be here less than 29 days, which is unfortunate, because they really are pushing the troops and not giving them per diem. So many of them are actually losing money as they're deployed to come to Washington, D.C.

Let me say this. We're in the height of hurricane season, a time that we depend on our National Guard to prepare us for the storm before, during and after. This is not a time to have our troops distracted. We just came off the commemoration of the 20th-year anniversary of Katrina. And now we're going to face with possibility of a storm coming while we're in the midst of hurricane season, and our National Guard is being distracted, at best.

This is not a time, the time to play these kind of games. This is not a time to tinker with the services of the incredible -- and I want to underscore -- incredible service that we get from our men and women in the military. They do a great job for us. I think, unfortunately, they're being used as pawns in a political charade, instead of really wanting to help the city of New Orleans.

This is a direct attack on Democratic cities.

HILL: Congressman Troy Carter, we appreciate your time this afternoon. Thank you.

CARTER: Thank you.

HILL: Still ahead here on CNN NEWS CENTRAL: House Republicans voting to create a new panel to investigate the January 6 Capitol riot. Just ahead, you will hear from one of the officers who defended the Capitol that day and testified in front of the first panel.

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