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Senators Grill RFK Jr. Amid CDC Chaos, Vaccine Policy Turmoil; DOJ Files Paperwork on FBI's Home Search of John Bolton; D.C. Sues Trump Administration Over National Guard Deployment. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired September 04, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:01:31]

ERICA HILL, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": Under the microscope, Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. facing intense questioning over the upheavals at the CDC and the turmoil now over the country's vaccine policy. We'll take a closer look at RFK Jr.'s responses and what they could signal for the future of public health in America. Plus, D.C. officials now suing the Trump administration, accusing the president of violating the Constitution by sending federal troops into the city. This as new CNN reporting shows National Guardsmen are growing weary of their deployment.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CO-ANCHOR OF "CNN NEWS CENTRAL": And the great Sydney Sweeney jeans controversy of 2025 may not have been so bad after all, especially for American Eagle. We'll take a look at what it did for the company's bottom line as we follow these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to "CNN News Central."

HILL: HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. coming face to face with angry and skeptical Senators from both sides of the aisle in perhaps the most combative hearing on Capitol Hill we've seen this year, and that's really saying something. Lawmakers and President Trump's top health official trading insults as well as accusations of lying. At one point, a Senator said Kennedy should resign or be fired.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., (R) UNITED STATES HEALTH & HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: I'm not taking him away from people, Senator.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN, (D-MA): It takes it away if you can't get it from your pharmacist.

KENNEDY JR.: Well, most Americans are going to be able to get it from their pharmacy for free.

(CROSSTALK)

WARREN: (Inaudible) you have to pay $100 (ph).

KENNEDY JR.: Most Americans will be able to get it from their pharmacy for free. WARREN: No, the question is everyone who wants it -- that was your promise.

KENNEDY JR.: No, I didn't. I never promised that I was going to recommend products of which there is no indication.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I-VT): You are corrupt. President Trump got $3 million. Every Republican got corporate PAC money from the pharmaceutical industry, Democrats as well. Everybody is corrupt. But you, is that what we're looking at? I don't think so. And I think the issue now --

KENNEDY JR.: I don't even know what you're talking about.

SEN. TINA SMITH, (D-MN) Secretary Kennedy, when someone presents you with information that does not fit your goal.

KENNEDY JR.: I did not blame that shooting.

SMITH: You will.

KENNEDY JR.: I have no idea whether -- I have no idea and I would -- I never said that. You're making it up.

SMITH: I'm not making.

KENNEDY JR.: You're twisting. Yeah, you are.

SMITH: Secretary Kennedy --

KENNEDY JR.: You're being dishonest right now.

SMITH: If you want to talk about mental health and gun violence in this country.

KENNEDY JR.: You are being dishonest.

SMITH: If you want to talk about mental health and gun violence in this country, we should be talking about that because that's what the parents --

(CROSSTALK)

KENNEDY JR.: Let's talk then, Senator.

SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK, (D-GA): You are a hazard to the health of the American people. I think that you ought to resign

SEN. BILL CASSIDY, (R-LA): An email from a physician friend of mine. "Hey Bill, I'm not even sure what I'm asking you, but we're all confused and concerned about who can get the COVID vaccine. I would say effectively we're denying people vaccine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Cantwell?

KENNEDY JR.: You are wrong. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Well, with health experts already sounding the alarm over his vaccine policies, here's what the secretary had to say about vaccines today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY JR.: Where most -- right now. You know, when I was a kid, I got three vaccines. I was fully compliant. Today's children have to get between 69 and 92 vaccines in order to be fully compliant between maternity and 18 years. Only one of those 19 vaccines, 92 doses, only one of those vaccines have ever been tested against an inert placebo. And what we're doing now is any new vaccine that -- that before it's approved and licensed, will have to show, demonstrate safety against inert placebo.

[14:05:00]

And we're going to go back and do observational studies on the existing vaccines to see if they're linked to any of these chronic disease epidemics, so that people can understand the risk profile of those products and make good assessments for their own health.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins me now. Sanjay, there was a lot in there. The Senator is trying to push him for facts. He continued to mis-state things, including that there were no studies, no clinical studies on COVID vaccines. We know that is inaccurate. Talking about vaccine studies there, what did you take away from what we heard today from Secretary Kennedy?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, I think if you listen to all three hours as I did, you would walk away more confused than when you started. I mean, it was infuriating at times. I think it was anxiety provoking and frankly, mostly useless in terms of the information actually provided. And as you pointed out, Erica, I mean this idea that when evidence was presented to simply say, Hey look, that person is lying. The amount of misinformation and disinformation at these high-level hearings. It was stunning to me.

So a couple things just from those clips. The number of vaccines that children get before the age of 18, vaccine preventable diseases. There is 15 of them, 15 diseases that we now vaccinate against. So perhaps when Secretary Kennedy was a child, there weren't as many vaccines available for these vaccine preventable diseases. But it's not the 93. I'm not sure where these numbers even come from for him.

But take a look at what's on the screen there, Erica. I think this is really important. Because fundamentally you're saying, look, are we giving kids too many vaccines? And from a scientific perspective, you're really saying how much of an antigen load, how much are we actually stimulating their immune system? Back in the '80s, '90s, we vaccinated against eight diseases. For example, the antigen load was 3,000. Now, 15 diseases and the antigen load is much lower. This might be nuanced and you know, you're thinking, you know, how's this relevant? But this is exactly the point.

There's a lot of, you know, sort of innuendo and we're over vaccinating. It's causing all these problems. In fact, we stimulate the immune system less and protect against more diseases than we used to. It's just an example of trying to explain things that I think are getting completely lost in all this, Erica.

HILL: There were also a lot of questions, Sanjay, about current recommendations or what was changing in terms of different vaccines. And we played a small amount of Senator Warren was really trying to hone in on this.

GUPTA: Yeah.

HILL: -- with Secretary Kennedy. and I would imagine some of that was in response to -- we saw, just a few days ago, CVS pharmacy said it would no longer offer COVID-19 vaccinations in 16 different states because of, in the words of CVS, the current regulatory environment.

GUPTA: Correct.

HILL: What has changed with what we've seen at the CDC and under the direction of Secretary Kennedy that has led to changes in access or coverage for vaccines?

GUPTA: Well, it is confusing. And I think part of that is by design. But first of all, it's no longer -- from this administration, no longer recommended for pregnant women and for healthy children. And we know pregnant women are at higher risk because your immune system is suppressed when you're pregnant. That helps you carry a baby. And the authorization for COVID-19 vaccines went away as well.

But practically speaking, what happens, Erica, in many places, including D.C. and several, I think 16 to 19 states around the country, pharmacists are somewhat beholden to the recommendations from the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, ACIP which we've heard a lot about. That committee has been sort of dismantled and then restocked with new appointees. They may have a meeting later this month. They haven't had one yet. Usually has happened by this point. And until that meeting happens, there are many pharmacies, as you point out CVS, that may not be giving these vaccines to people.

I will say that, you know, the nuance here is that if you really wanted a vaccine, could you go to your doctor? Could you pay for it for yourself? Could you, you know, get it off label? Perhaps. But there's all these hoops to go through. So I think it's demonstrably more challenging right now versus a month ago, as was stated during these hearings.

HILL: Yeah. It is a lot as you point out, a lot and confusing. I don't know if it's better or worse that you're confused as well, Sanjay.

(LAUGH)

HILL: -- coming out of that hearing. The non-doctor in me, I get it. But, always appreciate you helping us walk through it and put a lot of it in plain English for us. Thank you my friend. Boris?

GUPTA: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Let's discuss this with Democratic Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon, who was part of today's hearing. Senator, thanks so much for being with us. You and Secretary Kennedy had a very contentious exchange, and I want to play part of it for our viewers. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY JR.: Senator, you've sat in that chair for how long? 20, 25 years?

[14:10:00]

While the chronic disease in our children went up to 76 percent. And you said nothing. You never asked the question why it's happening. Why is this happening? Today, for the first time in 20 years, we've learned that infant mortality has increased in our country, it is not because I came in here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Senator, what's your response to the secretary's claims?

SEN. RON WYDEN (D-OR): My response is the secretary doesn't even know what is going on in his department. Several years ago, the late Orrin Hatch and I decided that Medicare was going to overwhelmingly be a chronic care program -- diabetes, strokes, cancer, this sort of thing. And we wrote a law that is now being phased in. It's working well with coordinated care programs, not so well with traditional Medicare, but it'd be nice if the Secretary of Health and Human Services knew what was going on in his department.

SANCHEZ: You also quoted, Senator, an op-ed during which the former CDC Director Susan Monarez said that she was pressured into pre- approving the findings of the panel that the secretary has installed full of vaccine skeptics. Kennedy denied it though, saying that he never met privately with Monarez. I wonder if you plan to investigate that further, and potentially call witnesses, including Dr. Monarez?

WYDEN: We're certainly going to follow it up. There is no question that Kennedy called the former CDC director a liar. I wanted to make sure that we understood that because I thought it was important, for example, that we have this witness there under oath because he has lied to us before. I do think that Sanjay made a number of important points, particularly in terms of this is a crucial moment. We've got the fall coming up.

We've got the question of RSV and hepatitis B and measles and the like. And what we really need to do is create a grassroots juggernaut to make sure that families are protected. As Sanjay said, there's been a lot of confusion on this for some time. But what's not confusing is that Robert Kennedy is thoroughly and completely anti-vax and he hasn't told the truth about that. SANCHEZ: At one point, Senator, you accused Mr. Kennedy of having flown on Jeffrey Epstein's private plane. You also made clear that you believe that he stands to continue to benefit from class action lawsuits that he's made in the past against vaccine manufacturers, despite him occupying a position of power when it comes to delineating vaccine guidance. I wonder if you have evidence for these accusations and if there's anything in place that could track whether the secretary is improperly benefiting off of vaccine guidance?

WYDEN: Well, first of all, with respect to Epstein, as the Ranking Democrat on the Finance Committee, I've had a three-year investigation into the activities of Mr. Epstein. And we have the only follow the money inquiry, you know, where you have a paper trail and you have account numbers and that sort of thing. And that's why we have the information about the flights. And it certainly is troubling.

SANCHEZ: And on the question of whether there's anything in place to track potential profiting off of the vaccine guidance that is now being put out, can you give us some clarity on that?

WYDEN: My investigators are reviewing that as well. We've known about that for some time, but it seems that we were told before that, he was going to take care of it when he went into, to government. But I think there's some questions about whether he did. So, our investigators are looking at it and we'll have some more to say down the road.

SANCHEZ: Senator, I want to provide you with an opportunity to respond to your colleague, Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana. Obviously, he was a decisive vote in confirming Secretary Kennedy at HHS. He refused to tell the reporters whether he has confidence in the secretary, nor whether he regrets voting to confirm him. What is your message to not only Senator Kennedy, rather Senator Cassidy, but also the White House on Secretary Kennedy? Do you think it's time for him to step aside?

WYDEN: Well, I would -- I do believe it's time for him to step aside and Donald Trump is going to get briefed on this hearing. He's going to see some of the video and I hope he is going to say, this is not a presentation that builds trust among families and particularly their loved ones. You know, I have staff people who will say, these kids are my world. They're my everything and I don't know what to do about vaccines, and these are healthcare professionals. So I hope that Donald Trump will see that his secretary really didn't contribute to public trust on healthcare today and replace him.

SANCHEZ: And what would you say to Senator Cassidy?

[14:15:00]

WYDEN: I would say keep working with us. I wrote a book called, "It Takes Chutzpah," and I made it clear I'll work with anybody who wants to do the right thing. And I say that to my friend, Bill Cassidy.

SANCHEZ: So Senator, three states in the West are forming what they describe as a health alliance. Their governors say that it's a response to the Trump administration's destruction of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's credibility and scientific integrity. This includes your home state of Oregon. Do you think this group on its own, can make up for some of the shortfalls that might be experienced given the turmoil at HHS?

WYDEN: First of all, what a commentary this is. You know, the question of vaccinations and public health has always been something that's been led by the federal government. And the states are basically saying, we can't leave our citizens so vulnerable. We're going to go and try and create our own program. There's a lot of talent in those three western states. I know of all those governors and I'm going to work closely with them.

SANCHEZ: And Senator, what are your concerns about the potential decentralization of health guidance? If Americans are hearing advice that is contradictory from state and federal leaders, where does that put us?

WYDEN: Well, my guess is there won't be a complete decentralization. In other words, Oregon, Washington and California will call on experts say from the Pediatric Association, which is a national group. So I don't think we're faced with something that will be completely decentralized and having every state going to do its own thing.

SANCHEZ: Senator Ron Wyden, very much appreciate you sharing your perspective.

WYDEN: Let's do it again.

SANCHEZ: Thanks so much. Still to come this hour on "CNN News Central." We now know what the FBI found when it searched the home belonging to John Bolton, President Trump's former National Security Adviser turned one of his harshest critics. That's next. Plus, National Guard troops deployed in Washington, D.C. tell CNN that morale is low and that they're growing weary. What they shared about their mission. And later, American Eagle took a lot of heat over its Sydney Sweeney jeans campaign. Now, it looks like it paid off big time. That and much more coming your way.

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[14:20:50]

HILL: We're getting some new details now about that controversial FBI search at the home of former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton, the DOJ just submitting some of its findings in court into what it is calling a criminal investigation. Important to note, of course, Bolton has not been charged with any crime. FBI agents, you may recall, searched both his home and his office almost two weeks ago. CNN's Katelyn Polantz is joining me now.

So in terms of what we're learning, anything more on not only the why, but what specifically they were after?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: We do know now what they were looking for and what they had probable cause to get a judge's approval to go to Bolton's home and conduct this search two weeks ago. So, what we're seeing now in court today that's new are the documents around the search of his home in Bethesda, Maryland. There was also a search of his office in Washington, D.C. CNN and other news outlets went to court to sue for this document and the Justice Department released a version of it that's redacted.

So the things in the document that we can see now that we didn't have before, they're looking at -- the investigators, the Justice Department. They're looking at two possible crimes or evidence of two possible crimes both related to the handling or improper transmitting, losing or gathering national defense material or classified records. So that's the general scope of what the investigation was trying to look for. When they went into Bolton's home, they then gave him a receipt when they took things out.

And we can see from the receipt that's filed in court what they took. Those things include two iPhones, four computers and hard drives, two USB drives and then crucially typed documents in folders labeled Trump I-IV. Does that mean the first four years of the Trump administration? We don't know exactly. That's what it was labeled. And then a white binder labeled "Statements and Reflections to Allied Strikes." Part of our understanding that we've reported here at CNN of what this investigation around is that it relates to Bolton and the work he did on a book that was published that Donald Trump took a lot of issue with and they have been enemies ever since.

This investigation though, it is something that we can see now the Justice Department had enough to go to the court. They got approval from a judge in Maryland and they say in their court filings, also released today, that they are still conducting interviews with witnesses and looking at evidence here. There is the possibility of charges at some time. Whenever you have an investigation like this, it's a serious step to take to have a search. But we've reached out to John Bolton and his attorney multiple times. They don't have any comment right now.

HILL: All right. Well, it's good to have the update though. Certainly raises more questions in many ways. We'll see when we can get some of those answers. Thank you. Boris?

SANCHEZ: New today, the Attorney General for Washington, D.C. is suing the Trump administration over the deployment of National Guard troops in the district. The lawsuit claims that President Trump is violating the Constitution by putting thousands of out-of-state soldiers on the city streets for law enforcement purposes. At the same time, we're hearing directly from some of the soldiers deployed in the Capitol about their mission, one telling CNN that morale is "falling fast."

CNN's Jeff Zeleny has new reporting on this unprecedented deployment. Jeff, walk us through what you're hearing.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris, as you know, I mean we live here in Washington, so we have seen these National Guardsmen and airmen around the city, but they're largely spending most of their time in areas where tourist populate, on the National Mall, on the wharf and other things. But we've been talking to a lot of the soldiers and their families actually, to get an actual sense of what is going on.

A team of our reporters has spent some time reaching out to their families because they are not restricted to speak to reporters and getting a sense of the mission. Of course, these members of the National Guard are used to being deployed to emergencies and things across the country, but they're not exactly sure in some cases, what they're doing here. They're spending a lot of time walking around, some time working on beautification projects.

But, a one father of a Guardsman in Tennessee told our reporters this. He said, I don't know what he thought he would be doing, but I really don't think he thought he would just be walking around for 12 hours every day.

[14:25:00]

When I talked to him, he was just like, yeah, this is crazy. And one other wife of a guardsman who was deployed here to Washington, again, everyone says that they are willing to serve, but the question is what exactly is the deployment? And this wife was very interesting as she told our team this, it's a little unusual in terms of what the National Guard is usually deployed for, but I mean, I guess I would say I'm open to it. I feel like maybe they would get a little boost in morale if they could just get a little bit more detail.

So that is sort of the question here. What are they doing necessarily? Of course, they're helping to keep the city safe and secure, but they are spending a lot of time walking around and other D.C. National Guards people are cleaning up the parks.

SANCHEZ: Yeah.

ZELENY: And of course, that is not necessarily what they signed up for.

SANCHEZ: Yeah. So there's the human cost of this, but then there's also a financial cost and it is significant.

ZELENY: The financial cost is significant. And this is something the White House has spoken very little about. The Guard has also spoken very little about. But, we do know that it costs a little bit more than $1 million a day to have these National Guardsmen here. We got our hands on some of the contracts and spending. And this is what some of that money goes to. Some $7 million in catered food for the first 10 weeks, $5 million for 18 weeks of laundry service, $5 million for a tent city, $600,000 for air conditioning rental, $500,000 for land mobile radios. Just a snapshot of this.

These guard members are also given a per diem for their time here, of course, their salaries as well, as well as a housing allowance. They're largely put up in hotels. So the bottom line is, no one is complaining about serving obviously. They're just wondering exactly what the mission is, and that is sometimes unclear.

SANCHEZ: Yeah. Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much for the reporting.

ZELENY: Sure.

SANCHEZ: Up next, sources say the Justice Department is looking at ways to ban transgender Americans from owning guns. It follows last week's deadly shooting at a Catholic school in Minneapolis. Is it legal? Would it hold up in court? And we'll discuss in just a few minutes. Don't go anywhere.

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