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Tension Grows Between U.S., Venezuela After Strike On Alleged Drug Boat; Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-MI) On Democratic And GOP Senators Clash With RFK Jr. At Combative Hearing; Donna Adelson Convicted In Murder Of Son-In-Law Daniel Markel. Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired September 05, 2025 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:31:12]
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So next hour a big moment for the jobs market and the White House, quite frankly. The jobs -- the August jobs report is set to be released, and warning signs have been flashing that the labor market has been losing steam, so a big question of what it's going to look like with that.
But this is also the first report since President Trump fired the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics claiming that they had been cooking the books without any evidence of that.
The president, last night -- well, just listen to this -- seeming to try to manage expectations about what's to come.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Tomorrow, we have a jobs report coming out, the first since the BLS commissioner who you fired won't be there. A lot of people will be turning to you to see if you believe the data that's released. Can you commit to saying the data will be credible?
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, we're going to have to see what the number -- I don't know. They come out tomorrow. But the real numbers that I'm talking about are going to be whatever it is, but will be in a year from now when these monsters' huge, beautiful places -- they're palaces of genius and when they start opening up you're seeing -- I think you'll see job numbers that are going to be absolutely incredible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Matt Egan here with me now.
Do you believe the numbers "I don't know" then focusing on a year from now? Let's focus first on the -- an hour from now.
MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yeah, Kate.
BOLDUAN: What's expected? EGAN: Well, the president's comments there obviously not the most confidence-inspiring but perhaps he's trying to lower --
BOLDUAN: Not the most? Not at all.
EGAN: Right. Maybe he's trying to lower the bar a bit and set expectations a little bit lower.
But look, every jobs report is big. This one feels especially huge because everyone is trying to make sense of this job market slowdown. Is this just a soft patch or is it something more concerning?
When you look at the pattern here -- this is jobs added for the last several months -- you can see this very clear slowdown. In fact, this is the weakest pace of job growth over the last three months since COVID in 2020. And you go beyond that you have to go back to the Great Recession some 15 years ago. So that's why there's so much focus on this report.
Now the consensus is calling for some stabilization, right? Forecasters expect that today's report is going to show the economy added about 80,000 jobs last month. That would actually be a slight improvement from July.
BOLDUAN: Yeah.
EGAN: The unemployment rate is expected to stay at 4.2 percent although I should note that some forecasters are penciling in an uptick to 4.3 percent. That would be notable because that would be the highest level in almost four years.
Now today's report, as you mentioned, is the first one since that game-changing report a month ago that caused the president to fire the head of the BLS claiming, without evidence, that the numbers were being budged for political reasons.
BOLDUAN: But what about revisions? That has been --
EGAN: Exactly.
BOLDUAN: -- because that was the story.
EGAN: So that's really what set the president off, right? It wasn't just the July numbers; it was the fact that May and June were revised drastically lower.
BOLDUAN: Yeah.
EGAN: They went from solid job growth to basically none at all.
And I think we should be prepared for more revisions today. And I just want to stress that revisions are normal, right? There's nothing inherently --
BOLDUAN: Yeah.
EGAN: -- nefarious about revisions. As --
BOLDUAN: There's a whole study of why revisions are bigger and there seems to be more inconsistency in the initial versus the later.
EGAN: Sure.
BOLDUAN: There is -- there is a lot of talk around that, but still it's not because it's intentional.
EGAN: No. And what happens is as the BLS gets more responses from the businesses that they survey, they update their numbers.
BOLDUAN: Right.
EGAN: It's kind of like a meteorologist who gets new data, and they update their forecast on a hurricane --
BOLDUAN: A hurricane forecast, yeah.
EGAN: -- right? It's just makes sense.
But to your point, though, there have been a number of indicators that have been piling up, suggesting strongly that this job market is slumping, including the fact that private sector hiring has slowed significantly that in August we had the most layoff announcements since 2020. And now we have a situation where there's more people unemployed than there are job openings.
[07:35:10]
And so we're going to find out in just under an hour. Hopefully we get some more clarity on exactly where this job market stands.
BOLDUAN: We -- clear or not, you will be here --
EGAN: Yes.
BOLDUAN: -- to explain it.
Matt, thank you.
EGAN: Thanks, Kate.
BOLDUAN: Omar.
OMAR JIMINEZ, CNN ANCHOR: It'll be here soon.
Breaking overnight a serious escalation in international waters just two days after a deadly U.S. strike on a suspected drug boat the Trump administration says was linked to a Venezuelan gang. Now, two Venezuelan military aircraft were spotted flying near a U.S. Navy ship.
CNN's Zach Cohen joins us now. So Zach, what do we know so far about this? ZACHARY COHEN, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yeah, Omar. The Pentagon calling this move by the Venezuelan military highly provocative and accusing the Venezuelan government of trying to interfere in ongoing U.S. military operations attempting to stem the flow of narcotics from Latin America into the United States.
And look, they -- the details at this point are pretty thin, but what the Department of Defense has confirmed is that two Venezuelan military jets did fly near a U.S. warship in international waters near Venezuela.
And look, these are jets that -- the U.S. has sold fighter jets to Venezuela and while we don't know which kind was used in this operation, we do know that there's several U.S. warships currently operating in that area.
We also know that this comes very shortly after that U.S. strike on an alleged drug boat also in international waters where 11 individuals were killed as part of that military strike. This is something that the Trump administration represents an escalation by the Trump administration in this counternarcotics, counterterrorism mission. And they've really gone to great lengths to try to link the mission of -- this counter-drug mission to something similar to a counterterrorism mission.
And we heard from Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth yesterday. He was pressed to explain what authorities the U.S. used to conduct that recent military strike. And take a listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Every boatload of any form of drug that poisons the American people is an imminent threat, and at the DOD our job is to defeat imminent threats. A foreign terrorist organization poisoning your people with drugs coming from a drug cartel is no different than al Queda, and they'll be treated as such, as they were, in international waters.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COHEN: So the U.S. has obviously deployed about 4,000 Marines -- a lot of firepower in this region right now. And top U.S. officials have promised that there will be more military strikes to come. The question is ultimately what will the Maduro regime in Venezuela -- how will they respond to the next U.S. action?
JIMENEZ: Yeah.
Zach Cohen, obviously following some critical details and developments for us. I really appreciate the reporting -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: So this morning the White House is publicly praising Robert Kennedy Jr. after the wild fights that he got into with senators at an important hearing yesterday. The Health and Human Services secretary faced a bipartisan grilling over the upheavals that he has brought to the nation's premier health agency. A major focus during the hours he was testifying was the changes that
Kennedy has made to vaccine policy since taking over.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT K. KENNEDY JR., SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: You're evading the question.
SEN. MICHAEL BENNET (D-CO): You -- no, I'm asking the questions here, Mr. Kennedy.
KENNEDY: You're evading that question.
BENNET: I am asking the questions, Mr. Kennedy.
KENNEDY: Well, I asked you a question.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): You promised that you would not take away vaccines from anyone who wanted them. And the consequences --
KENNEDY: I'm not taking them away from people, Senator.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): Let me ask you -- but you just told Sen. Bennet that the COVID vaccine killed more people than COVID.
KENNEDY: Wait --
CASSIDY: That was the statement that you made.
KENNEDY: I did not say that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Joining me right now is Dr. Howard Zucker. He is the former deputy director for global health at the CDC and also the former state health commissioner of New York. Thanks for being here.
DR. HOWARD ZUCKER, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR GLOBAL HEALTH AT CDC, FORMER NEW YORK STATE HEALTH COMMISSIONER: Thank you. A pleasure to be here.
BOLDUAN: I would -- a lot I would like to ask you about just -- but first and foremost just after seeing everything, what is your big takeaway? What did you learn from what we heard yesterday?
ZUCKER: Well, I'm shocked. This is a travesty --
BOLDUAN: Really?
ZUCKER: -- for the nation in my view. We need to stay on the science. We cannot continue to do this from a political perspective. And the American public needs to make sure that science is leading the response to any questions that they have about vaccines or any other health issue. BOLDUAN: So you -- as I mentioned, you were state health commissioner in New York during the pandemic.
ZUCKER: Yes.
BOLDUAN: And Kennedy's changes to COVID vaccine policy has -- was a central focus during the hearing -- his past views and what he has done since taking over, suggesting at some point -- one point -- Bill Cassidy got to it, but he did suggest -- and there is -- people would be, you know, not alone if they were confused by what his views are because there is a lot of misinformation. But suggesting at one point that maybe more people died of the COVID vaccine than from the actual COVID -- the disease.
[07:40:05]
I mean, do you think -- I mean, what do you do with that? What does that -- it's one thing if it's Robert Kennedy not in a cabinet secretary saying this during the pandemic and you were in the thick of it. It's another thing when he is the Health and Human Services secretary. What is the impact of that?
ZUCKER: Well, let's start with the facts. The facts are people died from COVID. The vaccine did not cause the deaths of individuals. So that's the first part.
The second part is you bring up a critically important point that he is in a position of authority and the public turns to a cabinet secretary. I've worked for a cabinet secretary at HHS, so I know people turn to them and they need to make sure that they lead by the science.
And you mentioned about COVID --
BOLDUAN: Um-hum.
ZUCKER: -- but more than just the COVID pandemic I dealt with a measles outbreak, and we stopped that measles outbreak in New York by leading with the science and leading with the facts, and that's very important.
BOLDUAN: And we -- and we know that there is a lot of misinformation that Kennedy himself propagated during this measles outbreak that we saw in west Texas.
ZUCKER: That's correct. That's correct.
BOLDUAN: One of the -- one former top CDC official who actually resigned -- I believe it was just last week after the CDC director was pushed out -- and kind of in protest gave something of a fact-check last night and his take from literally just being there and just working for Robert Kennedy. And he said that Robert Kennedy Jr. lied to Congress.
Let me play this for you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DEMETRE DASKALAKIS, FORMER DIRECTOR, NATIONAL CENTER FOR IMMUNIZATION AND RESPIRATORY DISEASES, CDC: We were just stunned at the number of mistruths that we heard. We were sitting and listening to this going, you know, we can't believe the state of our country that the head of the health agency for the United States is actually standing before Congress just continually making things up. He did not tell the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: And the fact of the matter is his -- one of Kennedy's central themes throughout and since he's taken over is public health is the one that's lying to you, and I am here to fix it.
What do state and local health departments and health officials -- because that was a lot of what the questioning was from senators is this is what I'm hearing from home. What do they do with this?
ZUCKER: So this is a huge challenge for the states and the local officials because they turn to CDC for money. They turn to CDC for support. And when you hear information coming out of the government at that level sort of saying that CDC is not doing the correct thing, that is dangerous.
In fact, I know the three individuals or four individuals who left the CDC.
BOLDUAN: Um-hum.
ZUCKER: They're stellar physicians and scientists out there.
But in addition to that, Kevin Griffiths was the communication director at CDC. He left. He wrote an op-ed about this. And I had him on my "Docology" podcast recently --
BOLDUAN: Um-hum.
ZUCKER: -- about this issue and he said that Kennedy had actually asked the people at CDC to look for data to support Kennedy's position on this.
You cannot do this. You must --
BOLDUAN: I mean, it's literally the opposite of what is following the science.
ZUCKER: Exactly, exactly. That's not how we lead. That's now how we move things forward. And that does not help the states. It does not help the states address pandemics or just outbreaks -- regular outbreaks.
You mentioned west Texas. I mentioned New York. But there are others. Look what's happening in Florida potentially.
BOLDUAN: Yeah. Look, and you mentioned you need to take politics out of it. There's a whole lot of politics -- I mean, he's on Capitol Hill, but there's a whole lot of politics wrapped up in all of it.
Democrats are calling on him to be fired. Republicans, by and large, in the Senate, they're -- I mean, look, they're not giving their full endorsement of him now as they had before when he was going through confirmation.
I want to play for you -- yes, this is a man who has -- is always been in politics, but Rahm Emmanuel's take last night on CNN -- listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAHM EMANUEL, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF TO PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: This is like that movie -- the scene in "Casablanca" -- who knew there was gambling. You knew this guy was a skeptic. You knew he wasn't up to the job. They voted for him because they wanted immunization from Donald Trump. So if there was a secret vote, Robert Kennedy never would have been confirmed -- hands down. Everybody knows it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: And we've heard from President Trump defending him, saying he likes that he has different views. He likes that he is different.
A range of -- a range of view is a good thing, but when it's happening at HHS, does this fall anywhere on the spectrum of a range of views?
ZUCKER: Well, my view is it's always good to have different opinions, but that's different. You have to base it on what the facts are, and that's not -- that's something --
BOLDUAN: What do you think comes of this?
ZUCKER: I don't know. I'll mention one thing. Rahm Emanuel mentioned one movie; I'll mention another movie, which is "Alice in Wonderland." That's how I feel we're in, like, in a tea party --
BOLDUAN: Really.
ZUCKER: -- where we don't know what's right, what's up, what's down anymore.
What do I think is going to happen? I think the American public is going to start to question and doubt what they're hearing. And what I don't want to see happen is that they turn to looking at these agencies, whether it's CDC, NIH, and FDA, and start to question the science in those agencies.
[07:45:00]
These are unbelievable institutions and the American public -- the world has turned to them and looked for what they say. And I know having worked in these institutions that they are the experts, and we cannot allow that to disappear. And to the secretary I'd say please turn to the experts that you have
in these agencies and don't have them start leaving and quitting simply because they cannot work in an environment that is not leading by the science.
BOLDUAN: He is showing no signs that he is stopping, slowing, or changing course. And he's -- and there's no reason to do it when you get -- when the president has just given his re-endorsement again last night. So buckle up.
ZUCKER: I hope the states also take some lead on this, and I hope the American public pushes --
BOLDUAN: That's, I guess, where people look.
ZUCKER: -- back on it.
BOLDUAN: Doctor, thanks. Good to see you.
ZUCKER: Thank you very much.
BOLDUAN: I really appreciate it -- Omar.
ZUCKER: Thanks.
JIMENEZ: All right. Well, joining us now is Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell of Michigan.
You know, you heard some of that conversation we were having there about RFK Jr.
You wrote on X, "Trump's best accomplishment in his first administration was Operation Warp Speed, to develop and distribute the COVID-19 vaccine. Now he has a CDC that doesn't believe in science. People will die if we continue down this road."
In the near term what concerns you most about RFK Jr.'s testimony and the future of HHS under his leadership?
REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI) (via Webex by Cisco): Well, I'm very worried. When you asked the doctor what he was afraid of happening, I'm afraid people are going to die.
We've got states that are now looking at eliminating vaccination requirements when kids go to school.
You know, I'm not old but I'm seasoned. I remember measles, chickenpox, and mumps. I had all of them. And people die sometimes of them. We have seen epidemics of measles in the past year in different locations around this country, including Michigan.
If we stop vaccinating people, we -- polio was something I was lucky enough they had created immunizations for. But we're going to see diseases that have been eradicated and disappear come back. And let alone not (audio gap). We are not going to be prepared, and we are going to have people harmed by getting some of these diseases and if we get another COVID, we are not going to be ready, and people are going to die in mass numbers.
JIMENEZ: I mean, what power do you believe Democrats have to do any -- to act on any of the criticisms we've seen to this point?
I mean, you know, some state governments have tried to beef up vaccine guidance, you know, on the West Coast, for example. Is that something you'd like to see done in Michigan, for example?
DINGELL: It -- uh -- I've talked to the governor --
JIMENEZ: Yeah.
DINGELL: -- and I think that you are looking at a number of states that are doing that.
But, you know, one of the problems is viruses -- germs don't know the difference between one state and another. And so as we've seen in measles, you get a case of measles. People had begun to build up immunity to some of these diseases. And then yet, when it comes into a community, even if some have been vaccinated, others are vulnerable.
So we've got to make sure we are trying to -- what are we going to do in this flu season? What kind of flu season are we going to have? People aren't even sure what kind of flu shots are safe.
And look, I'm somebody that understands negative consequences. I got a gans burre from a swine flu shot many years ago. I educate myself. I'm very careful. I was scared to death to get the COVID vaccine, but I got it because it was saving lives.
We need educated consumers, but we cannot throw this all out. We don't -- remember what it was like 100 years ago and the mass people that were dying because of some of these diseases.
JIMENEZ: You know, I want to ask you about Epstein because earlier this week you talked about the enormous pressure there was to release more Epstein files.
As I know you know, Congressman Thomas Massie of Kentucky is trying to force a floor vote with Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna to release more files.
Are you confident that that's an effort that will succeed? And where would you classify the momentum is right now in releasing more files?
DINGELL: I'm never confident of anything on the Hill right now. Every hour is --
JIMENEZ: Fair enough.
DINGELL: -- a new experience and people are up and down. But I did meet with some of those -- with some of the survivors and it was one of the most emotional, moving meetings I've had. I am someone who has been one of the leaders on the Hill in both domestic violence and those that have had experienced sexual assault. These survivors want to make sure that nobody else goes through what they've done. The way that I feel like that way on domestic violence, when people have one-on-one conversations, they move them.
It's -- I think every Democrat will sign the discharge petition. I know that there are some Republicans that are contemplating it. I know the pressure on these Republicans coming very strongly at the White House.
[07:50:00]
But I would asked everybody that forget even the name that's connected with this. People should not be targets. Should not be victims, and most survivors don't want to be thought of as victims of domestic violence or sexual violence. And we should be fighting it everywhere and anytime we can. And making these stories public and helping get public policy that keeps it from happening again and holds those that do this violence accountable.
JIMENEZ: Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, we've got to leave the conversation there. Thank you for taking the time -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: A CNN exclusive this morning. Maintenance records show that entry doors at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas had repeated problems. This is before the 2022 massacre.
In April of that year, a complaint was submitted that -- and here's the quote -- "West door not closing right..." This is all according to unreleased records obtained by CNN.
Just one month later, after that complaint was submitted, that is when a teenager armed with an assault rifle opened that very door and walked into the school where he killed 19 fourth-graders and two teachers.
Arriving police officers, as you can -- will -- as we're going to show you here -- right here. The arriving police officers were also able to open a door -- two other entrance doors without a key.
CNN's Leigh Waldman is here with her reporting on this. And this is important reporting, Leigh. Tell us more of what you've learned.
LEIGH WALDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, not only did that door have an issue a month before the shooting, it was marked that the work order was complete here, Kate.
BOLDUAN: Um.
WALDMAN: And it was marked that the work order was fixed. But these records about these door issues, both inside and outside -- it's not just a month before this shooting; it's years before this shooting happened -- even dating back to the 2020-2021 school year, according to records that we've obtained. Records that still have not been released despite a judge --
BOLDUAN: Right.
WALDMAN: -- and an appellate court ordering that these records be released despite the school district's school board ordering that these records be released to us.
Now on top of those maintenance issues there was also issues with the phone records from the former UCISD police chief Pete Arredondo not being released as well. We know he was using his phone on May 24. We know that because he abandoned his radio outside of the school when he responded to this shooting.
Now 3,500 documents were released last month, and they told us that's everything. Here is all the records that you had requested.
BOLDUAN: It's clearly not.
WALDMAN: CNN -- exactly. CNN -- we know from our sources that wasn't everything. Since then, 25,000 documents have been released.
And notably, last month, we brought you that there was discussions about a settlement offer for this former UCISD police chief who is now facing criminal charges in relation to this response. We can now reveal that in those correspondence about a settlement offer after he was suspended for his role in this response, we can now reveal that there was talks about a million-dollar settlement.
Now, that was never paid and the school board said that offer was too much. We don't know the details that led up to what made this offer amount even offered. But that's something that we're still fighting for.
We spoke to survivors of this horrible shooting, including former employees who are dealing with issues and injuries from the shooting --
BOLDUAN: Yeah, of course.
WALDMAN: -- and they're upset that they still have to fight for this information to be released, Kate.
BOLDUAN: I mean, still have to fight? I mean, it's like -- I cannot believe how long it has taken to get just the release of documents after -- in all of this.
And, you know, it just can't be forgotten as we stand here Leigh with your great reporting. It's like you see these officers responding. Look at the weaponry they have and look at the -- against the backdrop of "congrats." Almost one of the last school days of the year and in this sweet little elementary school and just the tragedy and horror that played out in all of it.
WALDMAN: I'm glad you point that out because these kids -- they were armed with their backpacks.
BOLDUAN: Yep.
WALDMAN: Officers had more.
BOLDUAN: And they were there for so long -- so, so long by themselves.
Thank you. Great reporting. Thanks for bringing it to us.
Ahead for us, what is next after a woman in Florida is found guilty of leading a murder-for-hire plot to kill her former son-in-law? We have that for you.
And what do you do if, well, this flies across the road? What led to a wild crash and how the driver is doing now after their car flew across the highway.
We'll be back.
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[07:58:40]
JIMENEZ: All right. New this morning a dramatic verdict in the high- profile murder trial of Donna Adelson. The Florida grandmother has been found guilty of first-degree murder in the 2014 killing of her former son-in-law Daniel Markel.
Now, the case, rooted in a bitter custody battle and family tensions, ended with Adelson breaking down as the verdict was read.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE STEPHEN EVERETT, CIRCUIT JUDGE, FLORIDA'S SECOND JUDICIAL DISTRICT: The defendant is guilty --
DONNA ADELSON, CONVICTED OF FIRST-DEGREE MURDER: Oh!
EVERETT: -- of first-degree murder.
ADELSON: (Crying).
EVERETT: Mrs. Adelson, control yourself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JIMENEZ: CNN's Jean Casarez joins us now with more details. Really dramatic.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the jury had to be --
JIMENEZ: Yeah.
CASAREZ: -- taken out of the room.
JIMENEZ: Yeah.
CASAREZ: She just absolutely sort of collapsed. The judge said, you know, you've got to take a minute. They were brought back in. And then the judge, when they left -- he told that the jail has to be alerted because she has to have precautions so she doesn't harm herself last night.
She was convicted on the theory of principle, and she was convicted of first-degree murder, conspiracy, and solicitation to commit first- degree murder. Now, she didn't pull the trigger -- those were the hit men -- but she aided, assisted in courage.
And it was largely a circumstantial case but the strength, as you look at the whole case, was there. The jury believed. They only deliberated for a number of hours.
Like, the back of her yearly planner -- in the notes are she had the license plate of Dan Markel's vehicle. The hit men had to have the license plate number to go and follow him in Tallahassee and kill him.
